ATI 9700 Pro or Ti4600

Zardon · Oct 10, 2002, 10:24 PM

Well I would like some opinions from users and people who own one of these cards to give me their honest opinions and viewpoints on them.

Having owned both, I would have to say the Radeon 9700 Pro kicks some serious ass (not that the 4600 didnt but ...), and yet I know alot of you people dont like ATI drivers at all. whats the consensus of the Driverheaven people then?

So lets hear it, Nvidia or ATI, or are alot of you waiting on the NV30 to appear? (sometime)

kinetic · Oct 10, 2002, 10:27 PM

I'm saving for a new card to replace my 8500 so the results should be interesting.

DarkFoss · Oct 11, 2002, 12:25 AM

Well I never had any GF3/4 but I loved my radeon 8500 even though it couldn't handle EQ .
The 9700 is just amazing

Get great framerates even in EQ as buggy overpatched poorly coded game that it is. I'm going to build a game only rig in the spring around an xp 2700 and I'll be awaiting the reviews on the nv30 as well as Ati's answer to it

before I decide which card to put in it. of course it'll be kind of a waste leaving the 9700 in this rig ..Wife hasn't notiiced I upgraded from a P3/8500 with sdram to an XP2000 9700pro and ddr. All she's remarked is her e-mail seems a bit faster and webpages load faster

Bottom line is if you need a great card now the 9700 is it

Mac Daddy · Oct 11, 2002, 01:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Zardon
Well I would like some opinions from users and people who own one of these cards to give me their honest opinions and viewpoints on them.

Having owned both, I would have to say the Radeon 9700 Pro kicks some serious ass (not that the 4600 didnt but ...), and yet I know alot of you people dont like ATI drivers at all. whats the consensus of the Driverheaven people then?

So lets hear it, Nvidia or ATI, or are alot of you waiting on the NV30 to appear? (sometime)

This is interesting, since I'm looking at buying a new card in the next couple of weeks.
ATI, sorry never had any luck with ATI cards, except for my All in Wonder, years ago.

did 9700 fix all its BIOS issues, ASUS 8X AGP ?

I'm still looking and waiting, love the 4600, but feel a change is in the air

Don't own one, but can get a feel of how it works , my buddy has the ASUS ver of that card, works DAMN good

Try Battlefield 1942 on your ATI card, see how it fares, sorry to say

Nvidia and Seymour Duncan pickups are my first choice

Ryoko · Oct 11, 2002, 01:04 AM

waiting for nv30...

[SIZE=xx-small]die, ati.[/SIZE]

Asmoday · Oct 11, 2002, 03:52 PM

I'm also waiting for the nv30....it's always nice to have something to compare with....

RIV@NVX · Oct 11, 2002, 04:19 PM

Let's just make it clear: 9700 Pro.
It has support for DX9, Pixel and Vertex Shaders 2.0 etc.

What does Ti4600 have? Most of it's preformerance is already at max, so it is not a good thing to invest in.
NV30 - we will see.

9700 CAN be improved with drivers and newer BIOSes, and so it is far much better choice...
Compared to Parhelia... I would maybe go for Parhelia, but 9700 over 4600 for sure.

Zardon · Oct 11, 2002, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by RIV@NVX
I would maybe go for Parhelia, but 9700 over 4600 for sure.

you would go for a Parhelia over a 9700 for gaming? a 4600 is a much faster card than a parhelia for gaming .... or is this a comment on a wider viewpoint, meaning rendering applications and photo retouching etc....

RIV@NVX · Oct 11, 2002, 07:10 PM

For gaming - 9700.
For widescreen, photo retouching, rendering and gaming too - Parhelia.

Ti4600 is out of choice.

There is something I like at Parhelia - maybe a feeling that Matrox is making somekind of a comeback, dunno.

Zardon · Oct 11, 2002, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by RIV@NVX
There is something I like at Parhelia - maybe a feeling that Matrox is making somekind of a comeback, dunno.

ive seen a Parhelia working and its a sweet card, I also always liked Matrox and owned many a card they made, alot of good memories, i just dont think its capable at 1280x1024 or 1600x1200 of sustaining high frame rates with all the eye candy on. A good all round card though.

I hope Matrox go from strength to strength and start delivering some sweet cards, but for gaming rigs right now I think its a two horse race between ATI and Nvidia.

As a side note the 9700 Pro IQ is exceptionally high, making it a great card for photo retouching/photoshop work etc (I am pretty well versed on this subject as it is my profession).

RIV@NVX · Oct 11, 2002, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Zardon
ive seen a Parhelia working and its a sweet card, I also always liked Matrox and owned many a card they made, alot of good memories, i just dont think its capable at 1280x1024 or 1600x1200 of sustaining high frame rates with all the eye candy on. A good all round card though.

I hope Matrox go from strength to strength and start delivering some sweet cards, but for gaming rigs right now I think its a two horse race between ATI and Nvidia.

As a side note the 9700 Pro IQ is exceptionally high, making it a great card for photo retouching/photoshop work etc (I am pretty well versed on this subject as it is my profession).

Never seen any 9700 on any monitor, so I can't confirm.
But I like ATI for one thing too - they are second company in the world.
NVIDIA was second and 3dfx was first - I liked NVIDIA.

My preference is always that second company is some way better than first.

UberLord · Oct 12, 2002, 01:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Zardon
ive seen a Parhelia working and its a sweet card, I also always liked Matrox and owned many a card they made, alot of good memories, i just dont think its capable at 1280x1024 or 1600x1200 of sustaining high frame rates with all the eye candy on. A good all round card though.

Parhelia kicks the Ti4600's butt when both are using AF and AA

However, without them then the Parhelia gets its butt kicked :/

However, I find my self asking - who runs without AF and AA these days

Mac Daddy · Oct 12, 2002, 02:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by RIV@NVX

9700 CAN be improved with drivers and newer BIOSes, and so it is far much better choice...
Compared to Parhelia... I would maybe go for Parhelia, but 9700 over 4600 for sure.[/b]

That's the reason I haven't purchased a 9700, ASUS 8X issue shouldn't be something you should have to address out of the box.
When I buy a card, I expect it to work, when I install it.
Flash Bios updates are meant to improve your product, not correct it

Perhelia, by Matrox ??, always liked Matrox, very solid. A come back would be welcome
As would a VooDoo comeback

I'll stick to waiting for NV30 for now thanks

Mac Daddy · Oct 12, 2002, 02:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Zardon
As a side note the 9700 Pro IQ is exceptionally high, making it a great card for photo retouching/photoshop work etc (I am pretty well versed on this subject as it is my profession).[/b]

I kind of figured that out after seeing your home site, WHEW, some nice artwork.
Almost as nice as the airbrushing on my Kramer, HEH

9700, I won't buy until all issues are settled,

Hey, when did you have to DL a GeForce 4 flash bios to make the card work.
NEVER

ATI
Wasn't me, was another member, In a thread I forget now

had to do that, BULLSHIT, Not me man

Sorry, you can keep your ATI for NOW

Mac Daddy · Oct 12, 2002, 02:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by UberLord
Parhelia kicks the Ti4600's butt when both are using AF and AA
However, without them then the Parhelia gets its butt kicked :/

However, I find my self asking - who runs without AF and AA these days

Good point, but then one should ask themselves:

What is your VC doing for you on the hardware level, all software enchancements, slow the system down. It's just common sense.

As far as I'm concerned, run your card " O Natural " and see what it can do

As hardware was the hurdle years ago, software is becoming that now
Come on you software guys, Get with the PROGRAM

reno · Oct 12, 2002, 03:10 AM

I think nVidia is concealing a secret weapon in the NV30...I estimate it will blow ATI's R300 and R350 out of the water. It is so much more programmable and has DDRII!

Matrox makes me laugh, they've never released a fast video card. Good IQ, maybe...but speedy enough for current games with all the eye candy? Say NO to Parhelia! If someone wants IQ, buy a workstation card, or a Radeon 9700.

Too bad I can't have a free 9700 for the few months before NV30 comes out!

Mac Daddy · Oct 12, 2002, 03:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by reno
I think nVidia is concealing a secret weapon in the NV30...I estimate it will blow ATI's R300 and R350 out of the water. It is so much more programmable and has DDRII!

Matrox makes me laugh, they've never released a fast video card. Good IQ, maybe...but speedy enough for current games with all the eye candy? Say NO to Parhelia! If someone wants IQ, buy a workstation card, or a Radeon 9700.

Too bad I can't have a free 9700 for the few months before NV30 comes out!

Nicely said, I agree, years ago Matrox had Good IQ, and not a bad running card.
In the modern world, sorry 9700 isn't my game.

NV30, will be the next step, MY OPINION, If I have to, I'll wait

Noticed your pic looks like an old freind of mine, Strider

I say no to Parhelia, its gone, get the net

UberLord · Oct 12, 2002, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by reno
Matrox makes me laugh, they've never released a fast video card. Good IQ, maybe...but speedy enough for current games with all the eye candy? Say NO to Parhelia! If someone wants IQ, buy a workstation card, or a Radeon 9700.

And there I was thinking that my Parhelia was too slow for Unreal Tournament 2003.
Hang on - I was playing it last night with all the eye candy turned on!

Dude - the Parhelia is only slow in comparison to the 9700 ..... but it's still more than powerful enough for todays and tomorrows games.

RIV@NVX · Oct 12, 2002, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by reno
I think nVidia is concealing a secret weapon in the NV30...I estimate it will blow ATI's R300 and R350 out of the water. It is so much more programmable and has DDRII!

Matrox makes me laugh, they've never released a fast video card. Good IQ, maybe...but speedy enough for current games with all the eye candy? Say NO to Parhelia! If someone wants IQ, buy a workstation card, or a Radeon 9700.

Too bad I can't have a free 9700 for the few months before NV30 comes out!

Can we look at same thing in history - VooDoo 5 6000 will be excellent, but NVIDIA GeForce (whicever) was slover and kicked it out of game.

NV30 will have to be more than a pumped card so it could take over the lead.

But, we will see.

Mac Daddy · Oct 13, 2002, 03:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by RIV@NVX
Can we look at same thing in history - VooDoo 5 6000 will be excellent, but NVIDIA GeForce (whicever) was slover and kicked it out of game.

NV30 will have to be more than a pumped card so it could take over the lead.

But, we will see.

Yes we will

Keep in mind, were mixing apples and oranges, 9700 was a reply to 4600,
4600 was a reply to 7500, which I didn't like

RIV@NVX · Oct 13, 2002, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mac Daddy
Yes we will
Keep in mind, were mixing apples and oranges, 9700 was a reply to 4600,
4600 was a reply to 7500, which I didn't like

You mean 8500, not 7500.

9700 is not just a reply to 4600, it is much more advanced card.

Necrosis · Oct 13, 2002, 12:33 PM

I went from a Visiontek 4600 to my 9700. Haven't had any problems (knock on fake wood computer desk) and love it's 2D over the Visiontek. You can really tell the difference with DV-I; reminds me why I bought a flat panel in the first place. I don't do a lot of graphical stuff mainly because I suck at it. What I have done I do love the 9700 for. Yes I do know LCD's are not the greatest for doing this kind of work. I haven't had any problems though.

RIV@NVX · Oct 14, 2002, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Necrosis
I went from a Visiontek 4600 to my 9700. Haven't had any problems (knock on fake wood computer desk) and love it's 2D over the Visiontek. You can really tell the difference with DV-I; reminds me why I bought a flat panel in the first place. I don't do a lot of graphical stuff mainly because I suck at it. What I have done I do love the 9700 for. Yes I do know LCD's are not the greatest for doing this kind of work. I haven't had any problems though.

One really normal user with good opinion who really UPGRADED, not downgraded (ex. from 8500 to 4200).

Necrosis · Oct 14, 2002, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by RIV@NVX
One really normal user with good opinion who really UPGRADED, not downgraded (ex. from 8500 to 4200).

Is there something wrong with what I said?

RIV@NVX · Oct 14, 2002, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Necrosis
Is there something wrong with what I said?

No, no, I heard some guys telling that some GF4 Ti4200 are better than 8500 etc.

But it seems that there are people who think with their mind and buy ATI.

Second company is usually better than first one. Knew that?

~~JAV~~ · Oct 15, 2002, 03:53 AM

Quote:

Second company is usually better than first one.

This from a guy with a Creative sound card & Windows XP + Service Pack 1 Final!

I know about the KX project too & refer ppl there all the time, so don't throw that in. Why not a Phillips or an ESS sound card? Why not Linux or BeOS? Lindows?

I notice you seem to HAVE to answer EVERY post w/your opinion that YOU seem to hold so highly. BAH! I see your true colors & plz don't even bother answering me, unless (as I think) you are just trying to up your post count.

To the topic: I personally wouldn't own either @ the present time. Neither are needed for present days gaming & 200fps doesn't impress me at all.

9700 supports DX9? DX9 isn't 'final' yet & saying ANY card supports it is ridiculous. NV30 w/DDRII: ain't out yet & the same applies.

If you want to see a GIANT thread on the 9700: visit MO & take a look. Actual users & the myriad of problems they have had is astounding! I'm not trying to crap on this thread (hope it isn't taken that way), but I'd NEVER pay over $200USD for ANY video card to just play games. A $100 8500 or $130 Ti4200 should last for years with good fps & decent IQ, IMHO.

JAV
GBA!

Kelsenellenelvian · Oct 15, 2002, 05:05 AM

I have had problems with all ati cards that I have tried (about a 1/2 dozen) never had a problem with Nvida however ..

digitalwanderer · Oct 15, 2002, 05:44 AM

Ever since comparing a GF3 head-to-head with an 8500 I'm a born believer in nVidia in my gaming rig. I'm holding off to see what their new one will be, I won't be able to upgrade 'til then anyways.

RIV@NVX · Oct 15, 2002, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by JAV
This from a guy with a Creative sound card & Windows XP + Service Pack 1 Final!

I know about the KX project too & refer ppl there all the time, so don't throw that in. Why not a Phillips or an ESS sound card? Why not Linux or BeOS? Lindows?

I notice you seem to HAVE to answer EVERY post w/your opinion that YOU seem to hold so highly. BAH! I see your true colors & plz don't even bother answering me, unless (as I think) you are just trying to up your post count.

To the topic: I personally wouldn't own either @ the present time. Neither are needed for present days gaming & 200fps doesn't impress me at all. 9700 supports DX9? DX9 isn't 'final' yet & saying ANY card supports it is ridiculous. NV30 w/DDRII: ain't out yet & the same applies.

If you want to see a GIANT thread on the 9700: visit MO & take a look. Actual users & the myriad of problems they have had is astounding! I'm not trying to crap on this thread (hope it isn't taken that way), but I'd NEVER pay over $200USD for ANY video card to just play games. A $100 8500 or $130 Ti4200 should last for years with good fps & decent IQ, IMHO.

JAV
GBA!

Hey, I have 8500.

I have Creative because I CAN'T GET EVERYTHING I THINK OF. I live in Croatia. Here you choose, you don't dictate and order.

Linux doesn't support games - If I had at least Quake III Arena for Linux (I don't have it), I would consider moving to Linux... and, thanks for asking, I have RedHat 7.1 installed on my second drive.

When once good windows emulator is made (because of games), I will definitly move to Linux.

Until, then... my first choice is anything NT-based (2000, XP, .NET).

reno · Oct 15, 2002, 11:06 PM

Man RIVA, you are dumb.

The Geforce4 Ti4200 beats the Radeon 8500 in most all benchmarks, hell, my Geforce3 Ti500 (which is much slower than a Ti4200) beats an 8500 in all tests except Serious Sam 2 and Game 2 in 3dmark.

Anyway, has anyone seen the CgShader effects in motion? I have, emulating the NV30 on my processor of course, but man...perfect fire. Honest to God, PERFECT fire in full motion! volumetric shadows, everything! Something that ATI currently can not do and most likely won't do until the R350 comes out.

I agree, 200 fps is not needed, and anyone who owns anything from a Geforce3 up should weigh their options...350 bucks for a new vid card...or 350 bucks for 5 quality lap dances?

Oh, and RIVA, you are my new favorite person to pick on. A croat that prefers "second company" stuffs because they are always better, yet doesn't use Linux because it can't run most games...But Linux is still better than Windows! And I only use creative because I'm forced to! Even though I could easily find on-board audio! D'oh! But C-media and the AC97 codecs (which come from "second companies" no doubt) aren't as good as Creative! I'd re-evaluate your stand on this "second company" issue Riva, I really would, it's limiting you to CRAP.

Oct 10, 2002, 10:24 PM	#1
Zardon DriverHeaven Founder Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 32,480 Rep Power: 179	ATI 9700 Pro or Ti4600 Well I would like some opinions from users and people who own one of these cards to give me their honest opinions and viewpoints on them. Having owned both, I would have to say the Radeon 9700 Pro kicks some serious ass (not that the 4600 didnt but ...), and yet I know alot of you people dont like ATI drivers at all. whats the consensus of the Driverheaven people then? So lets hear it, Nvidia or ATI, or are alot of you waiting on the NV30 to appear? (sometime)

Oct 11, 2002, 12:25 AM	#3
DarkFoss HardwareHeaven Senior Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Downers Grove IL Posts: 688 Rep Power: 0	Well I never had any GF3/4 but I loved my radeon 8500 even though it couldn't handle EQ . The 9700 is just amazing Get great framerates even in EQ as buggy overpatched poorly coded game that it is. I'm going to build a game only rig in the spring around an xp 2700 and I'll be awaiting the reviews on the nv30 as well as Ati's answer to it before I decide which card to put in it. of course it'll be kind of a waste leaving the 9700 in this rig ..Wife hasn't notiiced I upgraded from a P3/8500 with sdram to an XP2000 9700pro and ddr. All she's remarked is her e-mail seems a bit faster and webpages load faster Bottom line is if you need a great card now the 9700 is it __________________ Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety,deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. Ben Franklin, 1755

Oct 11, 2002, 03:52 PM	#6
Asmoday Demonic Join Date: May 2002 Location: In the cold, dark north... Posts: 5,198 Rep Power: 92 System Specs	I'm also waiting for the nv30....it's always nice to have something to compare with.... __________________ How You can help Hardwareheaven by using Digg

Oct 11, 2002, 04:19 PM	#7
RIV@NVX Freedom is a feature. Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Croatia, Rijeka Posts: 4,476 Rep Power: 0 System Specs	Let's just make it clear: 9700 Pro. It has support for DX9, Pixel and Vertex Shaders 2.0 etc. What does Ti4600 have? Most of it's preformerance is already at max, so it is not a good thing to invest in. NV30 - we will see. 9700 CAN be improved with drivers and newer BIOSes, and so it is far much better choice... Compared to Parhelia... I would maybe go for Parhelia, but 9700 over 4600 for sure. __________________ -- Vedran

Oct 11, 2002, 07:10 PM	#9
RIV@NVX Freedom is a feature. Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Croatia, Rijeka Posts: 4,476 Rep Power: 0 System Specs	For gaming - 9700. For widescreen, photo retouching, rendering and gaming too - Parhelia. Ti4600 is out of choice. There is something I like at Parhelia - maybe a feeling that Matrox is making somekind of a comeback, dunno. __________________ -- Vedran

Oct 10, 2002, 10:27 PM	#2
kinetic DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Manchester England Posts: 2,559 Rep Power: 0	I'm saving for a new card to replace my 8500 so the results should be interesting.

Oct 11, 2002, 01:04 AM	#5
Ryoko American Soldier Join Date: May 2002 Location: Williamsburg, VA Posts: 1,725 Rep Power: 0	waiting for nv30... [SIZE=xx-small]die, ati.[/SIZE]

Oct 12, 2002, 03:10 AM	#16
reno Painlord of Ichor Join Date: May 2002 Location: bloinkin! Posts: 1,610 Rep Power: 0	dfg I think nVidia is concealing a secret weapon in the NV30...I estimate it will blow ATI's R300 and R350 out of the water. It is so much more programmable and has DDRII! Matrox makes me laugh, they've never released a fast video card. Good IQ, maybe...but speedy enough for current games with all the eye candy? Say NO to Parhelia! If someone wants IQ, buy a workstation card, or a Radeon 9700. Too bad I can't have a free 9700 for the few months before NV30 comes out!

Oct 13, 2002, 12:33 PM	#22
Necrosis HardwareHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Ohio Posts: 8,838 Rep Power: 131 System Specs	I went from a Visiontek 4600 to my 9700. Haven't had any problems (knock on fake wood computer desk) and love it's 2D over the Visiontek. You can really tell the difference with DV-I; reminds me why I bought a flat panel in the first place. I don't do a lot of graphical stuff mainly because I suck at it. What I have done I do love the 9700 for. Yes I do know LCD's are not the greatest for doing this kind of work. I haven't had any problems though.

Oct 15, 2002, 05:05 AM	#27
Kelsenellenelvian Master of my own Destiny Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: EverDawn Kingdom,TruEarth Posts: 1,394 Rep Power: 0	I have had problems with all ati cards that I have tried (about a 1/2 dozen) never had a problem with Nvida however .. __________________ [color=#0000ff] Download Windows Post-Install Wizard v4.3.8 and WPI Lite v1.2 Here [/color][color=red][color=blue][/color][/color]

Oct 15, 2002, 05:44 AM	#28
digitalwanderer Colour Commentator Join Date: May 2002 Location: Highland, IN USA Posts: 5,619 Rep Power: 0	nv30 Ever since comparing a GF3 head-to-head with an 8500 I'm a born believer in nVidia in my gaming rig. I'm holding off to see what their new one will be, I won't be able to upgrade 'til then anyways. __________________ WTF is up with the sigs?

Oct 15, 2002, 11:06 PM	#30
reno Painlord of Ichor Join Date: May 2002 Location: bloinkin! Posts: 1,610 Rep Power: 0	asdfas Man RIVA, you are dumb. The Geforce4 Ti4200 beats the Radeon 8500 in most all benchmarks, hell, my Geforce3 Ti500 (which is much slower than a Ti4200) beats an 8500 in all tests except Serious Sam 2 and Game 2 in 3dmark. Anyway, has anyone seen the CgShader effects in motion? I have, emulating the NV30 on my processor of course, but man...perfect fire. Honest to God, PERFECT fire in full motion! volumetric shadows, everything! Something that ATI currently can not do and most likely won't do until the R350 comes out. I agree, 200 fps is not needed, and anyone who owns anything from a Geforce3 up should weigh their options...350 bucks for a new vid card...or 350 bucks for 5 quality lap dances? Oh, and RIVA, you are my new favorite person to pick on. A croat that prefers "second company" stuffs because they are always better, yet doesn't use Linux because it can't run most games...But Linux is still better than Windows! And I only use creative because I'm forced to! Even though I could easily find on-board audio! D'oh! But C-media and the AC97 codecs (which come from "second companies" no doubt) aren't as good as Creative! I'd re-evaluate your stand on this "second company" issue Riva, I really would, it's limiting you to CRAP.