Firewalls

UberLord · Nov 15, 2002, 10:38 PM

Which is your personal firewall of choice?

Ideally, I'd use BlackICE (with application protection turned off) as it's bloody quick when it works. However, it rarely detects my ISDN card and as such leaves me unprotected. Also as an issue when Mozilla is installed.

I used to use ZoneAlarm, but the new 3.x version keeps crashing on me, and slows down my web browsing speeds somewhat.

Tiny/Kerio has a nasty user interface and I could never get games working right.

Outpost is what I'm currently trying out. Looks like a damn good firewall (just used it for a day) and has loads of freebie options. Now, if I could turn off application protection then I'd be a happy chappy

Xploited Titan · Nov 15, 2002, 10:42 PM

Zone Alarm, it's free, relatively simple to use and rather effective........

Kelsenellenelvian · Nov 15, 2002, 11:13 PM

I use 5 in conjunction and windows firewall (HAH) and of all of them nortons is the best in my opinion..

Zardon · Nov 15, 2002, 11:54 PM

Neowatch

gibbon565 · Nov 16, 2002, 12:12 AM

I was impressed with Black Ice

RageX1 · Nov 16, 2002, 12:27 AM

used to have zonealarm, ditched it.... and i've also used windowsxp's integrated firewall, now i dun use anything...
firewall annoys me when i wanna direct connect with mah boiz in aim..

Vampyromaniac · Nov 16, 2002, 06:07 AM

I used to use ZoneAlarm, and I was very pleased with it.

I only stopped using it cuz I have a hardware router/switch/firewall now.

Matth · Nov 16, 2002, 12:14 PM

What do you call "application protection"? - the detection of changed checksums? - that is a basic defence against identically named apps spoofing the firewall.

In Outpost, and others, BEWARE of the default loopback allowed - if you run a local proxy, then default loopback allows any app to connect using the proxy!

It's fixable, just turn off global loopback and allow only where needed, but it's a STUPID default!

PS. hardware is all very well, but it doesn't provide the same "per application" control as software - though it IS more robust under serious attack!
Better to pair Hardware and software - the hardware providing "broad brush" perimiter defence, and the software marshalling application permissions.

UberLord · Nov 16, 2002, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Zardon
Neowatch

Which is now McAffe Personal Firewall

UberLord · Nov 16, 2002, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Matth
What do you call "application protection"

Basically, saying which applications are allowed through.

It's MY computer, I install the programs that I want to run.

"Yes Mr Firewall, I just installed this program and I do want it to get to the 'net".

You may argue that it's more secure - I argue that it's an annoying PITA

EcPercy · Nov 16, 2002, 09:25 PM

i just want to add my 2c here and say that blackice is not a firewall... it is basically an intrusion detection monitor...

i use Zonealarm pro for at least 2 years....

UberLord · Nov 16, 2002, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by EcPercy
i just want to add my 2c here and say that blackice is not a firewall... it is basically an intrusion detection monitor...

i use Zonealarm pro for at least 2 years....

In what way isn't BlackICE a firewall?
You can open and close specific ports which ZoneAlarm can't do.

EcPercy · Nov 16, 2002, 09:40 PM

well u dont need a "software" firewall to open and close ports you can accomplish that in windows just as easily

Matth · Nov 16, 2002, 09:56 PM

I suppose the TRUE firewall concept is exemplified by the hardware approach, but presonally I believe application control to be one of the more useful features......

My Browser(S), Email client and Newsreader are allowed access,
so is my download manager, and my antivirus auto-update.

If anything else wants out, I damnwell want to know WHY?

I have a particular hatred, of idiotically designed programs that declare open season on using an internet connection, and I will be happier when all current "leaktests" are fully blocked.

Vampyromaniac · Nov 16, 2002, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Matth
PS. hardware is all very well, but it doesn't provide the same "per application" control as software - though it IS more robust under serious attack!
Better to pair Hardware and software - the hardware providing "broad brush" perimiter defence, and the software marshalling application permissions.

eh, well I don't use anything that tries to phone home anyway, so I don't worry about that.

EcPercy · Nov 17, 2002, 01:11 AM

ok last time i post to answer the question from earlier....
its been ahile since i used black ice, but i only remember it monitoring traffic coming across your connection... zonealarm can control specific programs access to the internet i never saw blackice to that
there was a recent article in pc magazine about keeping hackers out and norton internet security was rated the best... blackice wasnt even listed...i wouldnt use it thats me....

toddsmack2k · Nov 19, 2002, 04:30 AM

Zonealarm and Systemsuite

Louie6666 · Nov 19, 2002, 08:31 PM

I used Ipcop based on smoothwall / redhat distro handy if you have an old spare P100 lying about..very secure!

used to use ZA Pro also tried most of software firewalls on market, & came to conculsion that if i could hack thru my own firewall with no knowledge, then other ppl could, not long afterwards I setup my own webserver came home to find hacked webserver....locked out & corrupted...

Now I think use ZA to stop trojans phoning home & a proper firewall to stop brute force etc

EcPercy · Nov 19, 2002, 10:22 PM

LOL... ok so louie, what is a proper firewall? hardware solutions?

reno · Nov 20, 2002, 01:39 AM

I used to use Zonealarm, and it blocked a lot of "bad guys" I guess...but after I reinstalled windows I just decided SCREW IT! since it wouldn't let my internet connection work. Now I just don't give a shit, I've only got dialup anyway.

`jaw · Nov 20, 2002, 11:24 AM

I used to use ZA but since it was a bit buggy and stopped IT sometimes and didnt allow me to run MP games I switched to Outposty and god dam thats what I call a firewall you have so much better controll on what aplication can do and not and alot of adins like popup stopper and its free of charge (as ZA) and well the best IÂ´v ever tried I gotta say.

Louie6666 · Nov 22, 2002, 01:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by EcPercy
LOL... ok so louie, what is a proper firewall? hardware solutions?

Ipcop! Yep Hardware solution ish! to be honest have totally switched off ZA Pro slowying connection to much for my liking, relying on virus scanner to catch trojans

UberLord · Nov 25, 2002, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Louie6666
Ipcop!

What's it like in comparison to SmoothWall?

And don't give me the "policitcal" trash - just nice reasons why it's better

Louie6666 · Nov 25, 2002, 05:03 PM

To be honest haven't used smoothie since 0.9.9 but thats when they(smoothwall, Lawrence Manning) started charging for the different distro's...slightly different GUI I remember at the time, but to all intents & purposes they were the same...now smoothie has moved to ip tables based solution as opposed to ip chains. ipcop version 2 is being finalised which is also ip tables based (can't wait to get my hands on the puppy!)

I would imagine that there are quite a few differences now as they have had time to develop as seperate forks & with smoothie having a basic free GPL version plus paid for versions as well as add in modules which cost extra(such as dans guardian based content blocking module) which in ipcop would be a do it yourself option

My reasons were political at time, I wanted to modify squid proxy to use content blocking which is quite easy to do, but the support forum for smoothie weren't intrested in helping me out, whilst there bumped into ppl who had issues with Mr Manning and directed me to Ipcop, who were only to happy to provide advise on what was safe to modify!

What I would say, is that if you are a company looking for a paid up solution with support then go for smoothie!

By same token if your out there on your own go for ipcop, because there not intrested in your money they just want to create the best possible firewall & the forums are very friendly!

I've had 6 security patches since install on ipcop,(smoothie is upto 19) pretty much all of which were vunrabilities if somebody on your own lan were attacking the firewall! kind of concept attacks

As far as I know nobody has successfully broken into either a smoothie or ipcop protected network!

By the way the default install of either of these puppys takes about 20 mins & is secure out the box!

http://www.smoothwall.org/
http://www.ipcop.org/ Down when I just checked (good advert guys)

If you read thru my ramblings, & want clarification on anything don't hesitate to ask!

I've posted image of front page of ipcop web interface..but can't see it!!!!!! arrrh

The Keeper · Nov 26, 2002, 09:04 AM

I use Norton Internet Security, offers both virus protection and firewall in one nice package.
Previously I was using F-Secure Anti-Virus and ZoneAlarm.

Zardon · Dec 1, 2002, 10:30 PM

im not a big norton fan (apart from their antivirus), but I tested the new Firewall 2003 today, and I was very surprised by how well it did on the many security test sites today on the net. it also doesnt affect some games (like sysgate pro did for me) with slowdown. it didnt fail a single test on any of the sites, from norton, sysgate, hackerwacker, and a few others.

While norton tends to cater for people who want to install and forget it also has quite a nice "backend" logging/monitoring section. interesting to see it actively closing ports when its being attacked on the various security test sites.

sporkpimp · Dec 3, 2002, 04:16 AM

This has got to be the most 56k-hostile post on this message board, heh... discussion about firewalls, AND massive high-res picture files!

That said, I just switched to Kerio a few weeks ago... wow. It easily beats Zonealarm's protection, and it uses fewer resources than Norton 2003's... I'm a happy camper.

-SporkPimp

Kelsenellenelvian · Dec 3, 2002, 05:07 AM

I still say nortons is the best out of the five I have running.

Darksider · Dec 3, 2002, 06:12 AM

I use a hardware firewall.

mike83wvu · Dec 3, 2002, 08:41 PM

Norton & Zone Alarm have caused problems from me in XP. McAfee online firewall is the only one that has not.

AT7
XP 1500 @ 1.71 {190x9}
2X40GB Maxtor Raid 0
512mb Corsair as 2
Sapphire 9700 Pro
Lite On 16x Writer
Antec 480 True
Windtunnell IV Case
Alpha 8045 36c/43c
Surfboard Cable Modem
Lucent 56k Modem
Win XP Pro

Nov 15, 2002, 10:38 PM	#1
UberLord A Legend in Underwear Join Date: May 2002 Location: Unknown Posts: 5,255 Rep Power: 0	Firewalls Which is your personal firewall of choice? Ideally, I'd use BlackICE (with application protection turned off) as it's bloody quick when it works. However, it rarely detects my ISDN card and as such leaves me unprotected. Also as an issue when Mozilla is installed. I used to use ZoneAlarm, but the new 3.x version keeps crashing on me, and slows down my web browsing speeds somewhat. Tiny/Kerio has a nasty user interface and I could never get games working right. Outpost is what I'm currently trying out. Looks like a damn good firewall (just used it for a day) and has loads of freebie options. Now, if I could turn off application protection then I'd be a happy chappy __________________ Gentoo Linux - Developer (baselayout) Read my blog "I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." Stephen Roberts

Nov 15, 2002, 11:13 PM	#3
Kelsenellenelvian Master of my own Destiny Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: EverDawn Kingdom,TruEarth Posts: 1,394 Rep Power: 0	I use 5 in conjunction and windows firewall (HAH) and of all of them nortons is the best in my opinion.. __________________ [color=#0000ff] Download Windows Post-Install Wizard v4.3.8 and WPI Lite v1.2 Here [/color][color=red][color=blue][/color][/color]

Nov 16, 2002, 12:12 AM	#5
gibbon565 Bouncy BOUNCY! Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Edinburgh, Scotland Posts: 316 Rep Power: 0	I was impressed with Black Ice __________________ 3500 x64 ASRock Dual Sata 2 7900 GTO 512 1 gig OCUK HANNS-H HW13D

Nov 16, 2002, 12:27 AM	#6
RageX1 Area3d @dmin Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: New Jersey Posts: 44 Rep Power: 0	used to have zonealarm, ditched it.... and i've also used windowsxp's integrated firewall, now i dun use anything... firewall annoys me when i wanna direct connect with mah boiz in aim.. __________________ Pentium!!! 800mhz Gigabyte GA-6VX7-4X (KT133A Chipset) Radeon LE 32mb DDR Crucial PC133 SDRAM 384mb Western Digital 20GB hard drive Onboard VIA Avance sound(AC97) Creative CD-ROM 52x Windows XP Home Edition http://area3d.net

Nov 16, 2002, 06:07 AM	#7
Vampyromaniac confutatis maledictis Join Date: May 2002 Location: somewhere dark Posts: 5,974 Rep Power: 77 System Specs	I used to use ZoneAlarm, and I was very pleased with it. I only stopped using it cuz I have a hardware router/switch/firewall now. __________________ *Digitalis 3.3* Athlon 64 3000 // ASUS K8V SE Deluxe // 1024MB PC3200 (2-2-2-10 1T) ATI All-In-Wonder 9700 Pro // 20" Dell 2005FPW (DVI) M-Audio Revo 7.1 + Philips Acoustic Edge // Klipsch ProMedia 2.1 320/16 Western Digital WD3200KS + 120/8 Seagate 7200.7 NEC ND-3550A 16x DVD±RW + Lite-On 52x24x CD-RW Antec Sonata case // 480W Antec TruePower personal bests \|\| Aq'3: 46796 \| 3D'01: 20461 \| 3D'03: 6336 \| 3D'05: 2677 \| PC'04: 4605 \| PC'02: 7691,9092,1250

Nov 15, 2002, 10:42 PM	#2
Xploited Titan Driverheaven's evil Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Brussels, capital of Belgium Posts: 207 Rep Power: 0	Zone Alarm, it's free, relatively simple to use and rather effective........

Nov 15, 2002, 11:54 PM	#4
Zardon DriverHeaven Founder Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 32,480 Rep Power: 179	Neowatch

Nov 16, 2002, 12:14 PM	#8
Matth Flash Banner Hater Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: UK Posts: 3,426 Rep Power: 93 System Specs	What do you call "application protection"? - the detection of changed checksums? - that is a basic defence against identically named apps spoofing the firewall. In Outpost, and others, BEWARE of the default loopback allowed - if you run a local proxy, then default loopback allows any app to connect using the proxy! It's fixable, just turn off global loopback and allow only where needed, but it's a STUPID default! PS. hardware is all very well, but it doesn't provide the same "per application" control as software - though it IS more robust under serious attack! Better to pair Hardware and software - the hardware providing "broad brush" perimiter defence, and the software marshalling application permissions.

Nov 16, 2002, 09:25 PM	#11
EcPercy HardwareHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Iraq Posts: 1,535 Rep Power: 0	i just want to add my 2c here and say that blackice is not a firewall... it is basically an intrusion detection monitor... i use Zonealarm pro for at least 2 years....

Nov 16, 2002, 09:40 PM	#13
EcPercy HardwareHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Iraq Posts: 1,535 Rep Power: 0	well u dont need a "software" firewall to open and close ports you can accomplish that in windows just as easily

Nov 16, 2002, 09:56 PM	#14
Matth Flash Banner Hater Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: UK Posts: 3,426 Rep Power: 93 System Specs	I suppose the TRUE firewall concept is exemplified by the hardware approach, but presonally I believe application control to be one of the more useful features...... My Browser(S), Email client and Newsreader are allowed access, so is my download manager, and my antivirus auto-update. If anything else wants out, I damnwell want to know WHY? I have a particular hatred, of idiotically designed programs that declare open season on using an internet connection, and I will be happier when all current "leaktests" are fully blocked.

Nov 17, 2002, 01:11 AM	#16
EcPercy HardwareHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Iraq Posts: 1,535 Rep Power: 0	ok last time i post to answer the question from earlier.... its been ahile since i used black ice, but i only remember it monitoring traffic coming across your connection... zonealarm can control specific programs access to the internet i never saw blackice to that there was a recent article in pc magazine about keeping hackers out and norton internet security was rated the best... blackice wasnt even listed...i wouldnt use it thats me....

Nov 19, 2002, 04:30 AM	#17
toddsmack2k It Never..... Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Kentucky Posts: 3,173 Rep Power: 0	Zonealarm and Systemsuite

Nov 19, 2002, 08:31 PM	#18
Louie6666 Just One Sick-Lizard Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Bristol, UK Posts: 501 Rep Power: 0	I used Ipcop based on smoothwall / redhat distro handy if you have an old spare P100 lying about..very secure! used to use ZA Pro also tried most of software firewalls on market, & came to conculsion that if i could hack thru my own firewall with no knowledge, then other ppl could, not long afterwards I setup my own webserver came home to find hacked webserver....locked out & corrupted... Now I think use ZA to stop trojans phoning home & a proper firewall to stop brute force etc __________________

Nov 19, 2002, 10:22 PM	#19
EcPercy HardwareHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Iraq Posts: 1,535 Rep Power: 0	LOL... ok so louie, what is a proper firewall? hardware solutions?

Nov 20, 2002, 01:39 AM	#20
reno Painlord of Ichor Join Date: May 2002 Location: bloinkin! Posts: 1,610 Rep Power: 0	tyr I used to use Zonealarm, and it blocked a lot of "bad guys" I guess...but after I reinstalled windows I just decided SCREW IT! since it wouldn't let my internet connection work. Now I just don't give a shit, I've only got dialup anyway.

Nov 20, 2002, 11:24 AM	#21
`jaw DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: sweden Posts: 72 Rep Power: 0	I used to use ZA but since it was a bit buggy and stopped IT sometimes and didnt allow me to run MP games I switched to Outposty and god dam thats what I call a firewall you have so much better controll on what aplication can do and not and alot of adins like popup stopper and its free of charge (as ZA) and well the best IÂ´v ever tried I gotta say.

Nov 25, 2002, 05:03 PM	#24
Louie6666 Just One Sick-Lizard Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Bristol, UK Posts: 501 Rep Power: 0	To be honest haven't used smoothie since 0.9.9 but thats when they(smoothwall, Lawrence Manning) started charging for the different distro's...slightly different GUI I remember at the time, but to all intents & purposes they were the same...now smoothie has moved to ip tables based solution as opposed to ip chains. ipcop version 2 is being finalised which is also ip tables based (can't wait to get my hands on the puppy!) I would imagine that there are quite a few differences now as they have had time to develop as seperate forks & with smoothie having a basic free GPL version plus paid for versions as well as add in modules which cost extra(such as dans guardian based content blocking module) which in ipcop would be a do it yourself option My reasons were political at time, I wanted to modify squid proxy to use content blocking which is quite easy to do, but the support forum for smoothie weren't intrested in helping me out, whilst there bumped into ppl who had issues with Mr Manning and directed me to Ipcop, who were only to happy to provide advise on what was safe to modify! What I would say, is that if you are a company looking for a paid up solution with support then go for smoothie! By same token if your out there on your own go for ipcop, because there not intrested in your money they just want to create the best possible firewall & the forums are very friendly! I've had 6 security patches since install on ipcop,(smoothie is upto 19) pretty much all of which were vunrabilities if somebody on your own lan were attacking the firewall! kind of concept attacks As far as I know nobody has successfully broken into either a smoothie or ipcop protected network! By the way the default install of either of these puppys takes about 20 mins & is secure out the box! http://www.smoothwall.org/ http://www.ipcop.org/ Down when I just checked (good advert guys) If you read thru my ramblings, & want clarification on anything don't hesitate to ask! I've posted image of front page of ipcop web interface..but can't see it!!!!!! arrrh __________________ Last edited by Louie6666; Nov 25, 2002 at 05:19 PM.

Nov 26, 2002, 09:04 AM	#25
The Keeper DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 46 Rep Power: 0	I use Norton Internet Security, offers both virus protection and firewall in one nice package. Previously I was using F-Secure Anti-Virus and ZoneAlarm.

Dec 1, 2002, 10:30 PM	#26
Zardon DriverHeaven Founder Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 32,480 Rep Power: 179	im not a big norton fan (apart from their antivirus), but I tested the new Firewall 2003 today, and I was very surprised by how well it did on the many security test sites today on the net. it also doesnt affect some games (like sysgate pro did for me) with slowdown. it didnt fail a single test on any of the sites, from norton, sysgate, hackerwacker, and a few others. While norton tends to cater for people who want to install and forget it also has quite a nice "backend" logging/monitoring section. interesting to see it actively closing ports when its being attacked on the various security test sites.

Dec 3, 2002, 04:16 AM	#27
sporkpimp DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: CA, USA Posts: 90 Rep Power: 0	Holy crap! This has got to be the most 56k-hostile post on this message board, heh... discussion about firewalls, AND massive high-res picture files! That said, I just switched to Kerio a few weeks ago... wow. It easily beats Zonealarm's protection, and it uses fewer resources than Norton 2003's... I'm a happy camper. -SporkPimp

Dec 3, 2002, 05:07 AM	#28
Kelsenellenelvian Master of my own Destiny Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: EverDawn Kingdom,TruEarth Posts: 1,394 Rep Power: 0	I still say nortons is the best out of the five I have running. __________________ [color=#0000ff] Download Windows Post-Install Wizard v4.3.8 and WPI Lite v1.2 Here [/color][color=red][color=blue][/color][/color]

Dec 3, 2002, 06:12 AM	#29
Darksider I Play NWN and UT2003 Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 202 Rep Power: 0	I use a hardware firewall.

Dec 3, 2002, 08:41 PM	#30
mike83wvu DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 65 Rep Power: 0	Norton & Zone Alarm have caused problems from me in XP. McAfee online firewall is the only one that has not. AT7 XP 1500 @ 1.71 {190x9} 2X40GB Maxtor Raid 0 512mb Corsair as 2 Sapphire 9700 Pro Lite On 16x Writer Antec 480 True Windtunnell IV Case Alpha 8045 36c/43c Surfboard Cable Modem Lucent 56k Modem Win XP Pro