Upgrading Memeory Now Issues

Widkidone · Sep 16, 2005, 07:22 AM

Well what i am doing is trying to upgrade 1GB of PC-3200 (400) TO 2GB PC-3200 (400). What i have done first was make sure i was grounded before i open my case. I open my case. Then i take out the two 512mb of memory and replaced them with two 1Gb of memory. No big deal right??? Wrong!

Now before i close the case i made sure that the video card is secured and the memory sticks are secured as well. The tower case is now secured.

I turn on the tower then turn on the monitor, but the monitor is not responding. What is the little light by the power button is flashing. The monitor screen is completely black. There is NO warnings of any type or anything.

Shut off the computer then i reopen the case swap the new ram back to the old ram and i am getting the same problem. The video card i have tested in my other system and it works with no problems.

Now what is the answer to this riddle?

ReDGuiTaR · Sep 16, 2005, 07:34 AM

Have you tried to reset the cmos ?

Widkidone · Sep 16, 2005, 07:36 AM

That would be a...... NO. What would i have to do to reset it?

ReDGuiTaR · Sep 16, 2005, 07:37 AM

then do it first!

Logla · Sep 16, 2005, 10:45 AM

Check your motherboards manual. There will be a jumper somewhere on the board which you need to remove/move and this resets all the CMOS settings. Its usually a good idea to remove the CMOS battery as well. Leave the machine powered off with the power cable removed for 15-10 minutes and then replace the battery, move the jumper back to its original position and power up. You will have to setup all your BIOS settings but hopefully the new memory will then work.

Edit: Forgot to ask, what brand is the RAM your'e trying to install.

Widkidone · Sep 17, 2005, 09:48 AM

I am using the OCZ ram. I did all that and still failed.... any other ideas?

Logla · Sep 17, 2005, 02:05 PM

Have you updated to the latest BIOS for your motherboard? It may be that the BIOS you have on there is one of the first releases and that BIOS may not be able to support 2GB.
Have you tried the new memory in different slots on the board and have you tried each stick on its own - you may have one faulty stick which is stopping the machine from booting.

EDIT: Scratch all that. Just realised that the machine isn't booting with the old ram in.

niceguyrichy · Sep 17, 2005, 02:08 PM

Just a thought, but have you tested the monitor on another system??

A similar thing happened to me, and it took me hours to figure it out. For some reason it never occured to me the monitor might have died.....

Logla · Sep 17, 2005, 03:01 PM

with reference to the the edit in my last post, you might want to try and strip all the components out and reconect everything.

When you power up the machine, can you tell if it boots up? Like when you hit the power button do you get lots of hard disk activity for the same amount of time it would take for the machine to fully boot?

Or does it just sit there with the fans spinning but doing nothing or do you get any beeps coming from the tower?
If that is the case, you have probably killed your motherboard. The last motherboard did exactly the same thing after I fitted a waterblock to the northbridge and I chipped the corner of the core. It was only a couple of weeks old but completly useless after that.

Try powering up the machine with everything removed and if it boots, add a new component then reboot and continue on until you get the failure, then you know which part is causing the fault, but to be totally honest, it looks like a failed mobo.

Asmoday · Sep 17, 2005, 03:16 PM

I'd try to move the RAM around a couple of times. Just take them out and reseat them try different ramslots and one memory stick a time.

PangingJr · Sep 18, 2005, 07:37 AM

i like to repeat other advices above.
and, you don't have to make it too secured or by pressing on the RAMs (and video card) too many times. maybe just check them one last time before closing the case by pressing both edges of the RAMs with little force. it could happen that the RAMs may not contact with DIMM sockets in the right position. you would hear a click/confirmation sound that indicates the clip at both edges of DIMM sockets are already secured the RAMs. that's all it needs for it to be in its place.

reinsert both the RAMs and the video card into its sockets. and see.

gonz0 · Sep 18, 2005, 08:23 PM

Wikid, try putting your old ram back in and seeing if the monitor works then? Also try only putting in one stick of the new ram @ a time and see if the bios will post. Don't forget to dump the CMOS.

Widkidone · Sep 19, 2005, 08:03 AM

Yeah guys i did that all that of what you have metion. I checked every thing from the video card and ram being secured and snuggled in.......GRRRRR!!!

Update: Well i took my computer in to see a tech.... and so far nobody has figured out the issue. Checked Monitor..... it works.....check video card... it works. Ram was placed in properly those are fine.

So it might be the motherboard has might have taken a dump or something is my theory sice it did not start up with the old ram as well. So just IF my theory is correct, i am looking to replacing it with a P5P800 LGA775 and might as well upgrade the CPU and i am looking at the P4 PD series 830 Dual Core (3.0 GHz) if they are compatible to each other. But we will see later on this week what happens...... i shall be back online with vengence, LOL.

I just want to say thanks Tefra from www.3dacc.net and the Driverheaven.net community for helping out on this issue. The only way i can get online is when i am here at work, and that sucks..... i want to play my BF2

CDsDontBurn · Sep 19, 2005, 08:27 AM

sux man. from reading the thread, it seems to me that your MoBo took a dump. And if this will bring you to purchasing a new MoBo along w/the P-D 830, it has to be either a 945/955 or nVidia nForce 4 Intel edition chipset. the 915/925 chipsets won't work w/the P-D processors.

Also, since your current MoBo is a 478 socket, you have DDR1. the importance of why i bring this up, is because you are looking to upgrade if your MoBo is dead (which seems to be the case, but i could be wrong still). the new set up will require you to get DDR2, so you will either have to exhange the memory you just purchased for some DDR2, or move it to another machine and purchase some DDR2.

Widkidone · Sep 19, 2005, 08:55 AM

So you are saying that this http://www.ctpcomputer.com/CPU%20Int...e%203_0GHz.htm

Its not compatible to this http://www.ctpcomputer.com/Motherboa...s%20P5P800.htm

And that with all this togther it will not work a X850XT AGP 256mb card and a PC-3200 (400) OCZ Dual Channel Platinum 2 GB (2 pcs 1GB) found here http://www.monarchcomputer.com/Merch...Unbuffered_OCZ

CDsDontBurn · Sep 19, 2005, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Widkidone

So you are saying that this http://www.ctpcomputer.com/CPU%20Int...e%203_0GHz.htm

Its not compatible to this http://www.ctpcomputer.com/Motherboa...s%20P5P800.htm

And that with all this togther it will not work a X850XT AGP 256mb card and a PC-3200 (400) OCZ Dual Channel Platinum 2 GB (2 pcs 1GB) found here http://www.monarchcomputer.com/Merch...Unbuffered_OCZ

ok, so you got me on the memory. the memory will work w/that MoBo. however, as far as the CPU goes, it will not. like i said before, in order to get a P-D working, you must have either a 945/955 chipset MoBo or an nVidia nForce 4 Intel edition chipset MoBo to use a P-D.

Widkidone · Sep 19, 2005, 09:39 AM

Ok then what about this then as for the processor instead: http://www.ctpcomputer.com/CPU%20Int...B%203_4GHz.htm

CDsDontBurn · Sep 19, 2005, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Widkidone

Ok then what about this then as for the processor instead: http://www.ctpcomputer.com/CPU%20Int...B%203_4GHz.htm

You're looking at a 640 chip. on ASUS' website i have found this so far. from what i'm understanding of that FAQ there, it will support any 6x0 chips. and all 5x0 chips are basically the 478 chips w/a new socket, so definatley no problem w/a 5x0 chip

Widkidone · Sep 19, 2005, 09:56 AM

First the the link is broken or something. And this [color=#606420]http://www.ctpcomputer.com/CPU%20In...MB%203_4GHz.htm[/color] i cannot use.....

Well any ideas then?? What would support my X850XT 256mb AGP and my OCZ PC 3200 (400) DDR 2GB (2 pcs 1GB) that is assuming that my current motherboard is toast.

Now as for going to the AMD route would the following support my X850XT 256mb AGP and my OCZ PC 3200 (400) DDR 2GB (2 pcs 1GB):

http://www.ctpcomputer.com/Motherboa...V%20Deluxe.htm

http://www.ctpcomputer.com/CPU%20AMD...20Ath-4200.htm

CDsDontBurn · Sep 19, 2005, 04:27 PM

That MoBo you found should work fine w/the x2 chip. however the MoBo may need a BIOS update for it to work w/that chip. I would rather recomend you get an nForce 3 chipset MoBo though. you will get better performance out of your rig w/an nForce 3 chipset.

oh, and the link works fine for me. might be something on your end

ReDGuiTaR · Sep 19, 2005, 04:56 PM

I would recommend a Nforce3 chipset also as Via bring a lot of problem sometimes and you have to be very touchy to make it stable ...

Or you can always sell that x850 AGP and buy a new PCI-E card and go Nforce4 , you will have to take the curve sooner or later anyways. Since you have to buy a new MoBo why not jump in the wagon now ? otherwise you will have to replace the MoBo again in a few months .

Sep 16, 2005, 07:22 AM	#1
Widkidone DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: San Diego, Ca Posts: 711 Rep Power: 0	Upgrading Memeory Now Issues Well what i am doing is trying to upgrade 1GB of PC-3200 (400) TO 2GB PC-3200 (400). What i have done first was make sure i was grounded before i open my case. I open my case. Then i take out the two 512mb of memory and replaced them with two 1Gb of memory. No big deal right??? Wrong! Now before i close the case i made sure that the video card is secured and the memory sticks are secured as well. The tower case is now secured. I turn on the tower then turn on the monitor, but the monitor is not responding. What is the little light by the power button is flashing. The monitor screen is completely black. There is NO warnings of any type or anything. Shut off the computer then i reopen the case swap the new ram back to the old ram and i am getting the same problem. The video card i have tested in my other system and it works with no problems. Now what is the answer to this riddle? __________________ Case- Cooler Master ATC-201B-BXT Aluminum Case Power Supply- Antec 480w TrueBlue480 ATX-12V MX518 Mouse CPU- AMD Athlon 64 processor 4000+ (2.4GHz) Socket-939 Motherboard-K8N Neo2 Platinum 2 GB DDR (2 pcs 1GB) PC-3200 (400) OCZ Dual Channel Platinum Hard Drive- WD 74GB 8MB 10000rpm S-ATA WD740GD Sound Card- Creative SB Audigy 2 Zs Platinum CDRW- LG GCE-8525BI 52X32X52 CD-RW OS- Microsoft Windows XP Pro Edition w/SP2 Video-Radeon X850XT AGP 256MB

Sep 16, 2005, 07:34 AM	#2
ReDGuiTaR DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Quebec , Canada Posts: 746 Rep Power: 0	Have you tried to reset the cmos ? __________________ Zing a ling... zing a ling a ling ... A8N-E - A64x2 4600, 2048 Mb Kingston ram 400mhz cas 2.5 ( 2 x 1024 DualChannel ), Seagate 320 Gig 7200 16Mb cache S-ata 2, GeForce 7900GT 512MB, Enermax 460watt power supply, WindowsXP SP2.

Sep 16, 2005, 07:36 AM	Thread Starter #3
Widkidone DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: San Diego, Ca Posts: 711 Rep Power: 0	That would be a...... NO. What would i have to do to reset it? __________________ Case- Cooler Master ATC-201B-BXT Aluminum Case Power Supply- Antec 480w TrueBlue480 ATX-12V MX518 Mouse CPU- AMD Athlon 64 processor 4000+ (2.4GHz) Socket-939 Motherboard-K8N Neo2 Platinum 2 GB DDR (2 pcs 1GB) PC-3200 (400) OCZ Dual Channel Platinum Hard Drive- WD 74GB 8MB 10000rpm S-ATA WD740GD Sound Card- Creative SB Audigy 2 Zs Platinum CDRW- LG GCE-8525BI 52X32X52 CD-RW OS- Microsoft Windows XP Pro Edition w/SP2 Video-Radeon X850XT AGP 256MB

Sep 16, 2005, 07:37 AM	#4
ReDGuiTaR DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Quebec , Canada Posts: 746 Rep Power: 0	then do it first! __________________ Zing a ling... zing a ling a ling ... A8N-E - A64x2 4600, 2048 Mb Kingston ram 400mhz cas 2.5 ( 2 x 1024 DualChannel ), Seagate 320 Gig 7200 16Mb cache S-ata 2, GeForce 7900GT 512MB, Enermax 460watt power supply, WindowsXP SP2.

Sep 17, 2005, 09:48 AM	Thread Starter #6
Widkidone DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: San Diego, Ca Posts: 711 Rep Power: 0	I am using the OCZ ram. I did all that and still failed.... any other ideas? __________________ Case- Cooler Master ATC-201B-BXT Aluminum Case Power Supply- Antec 480w TrueBlue480 ATX-12V MX518 Mouse CPU- AMD Athlon 64 processor 4000+ (2.4GHz) Socket-939 Motherboard-K8N Neo2 Platinum 2 GB DDR (2 pcs 1GB) PC-3200 (400) OCZ Dual Channel Platinum Hard Drive- WD 74GB 8MB 10000rpm S-ATA WD740GD Sound Card- Creative SB Audigy 2 Zs Platinum CDRW- LG GCE-8525BI 52X32X52 CD-RW OS- Microsoft Windows XP Pro Edition w/SP2 Video-Radeon X850XT AGP 256MB

Sep 16, 2005, 10:45 AM	#5
Logla HardwareHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 3,311 Rep Power: 0	Check your motherboards manual. There will be a jumper somewhere on the board which you need to remove/move and this resets all the CMOS settings. Its usually a good idea to remove the CMOS battery as well. Leave the machine powered off with the power cable removed for 15-10 minutes and then replace the battery, move the jumper back to its original position and power up. You will have to setup all your BIOS settings but hopefully the new memory will then work. Edit: Forgot to ask, what brand is the RAM your'e trying to install.

Sep 17, 2005, 02:05 PM	#7
Logla HardwareHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 3,311 Rep Power: 0	Have you updated to the latest BIOS for your motherboard? It may be that the BIOS you have on there is one of the first releases and that BIOS may not be able to support 2GB. Have you tried the new memory in different slots on the board and have you tried each stick on its own - you may have one faulty stick which is stopping the machine from booting. EDIT: Scratch all that. Just realised that the machine isn't booting with the old ram in. Last edited by Logla; Sep 17, 2005 at 02:53 PM.

Sep 17, 2005, 03:01 PM	#9
Logla HardwareHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 3,311 Rep Power: 0	with reference to the the edit in my last post, you might want to try and strip all the components out and reconect everything. When you power up the machine, can you tell if it boots up? Like when you hit the power button do you get lots of hard disk activity for the same amount of time it would take for the machine to fully boot? Or does it just sit there with the fans spinning but doing nothing or do you get any beeps coming from the tower? If that is the case, you have probably killed your motherboard. The last motherboard did exactly the same thing after I fitted a waterblock to the northbridge and I chipped the corner of the core. It was only a couple of weeks old but completly useless after that. Try powering up the machine with everything removed and if it boots, add a new component then reboot and continue on until you get the failure, then you know which part is causing the fault, but to be totally honest, it looks like a failed mobo.

Sep 17, 2005, 03:16 PM	#10
Asmoday Demonic Join Date: May 2002 Location: In the cold, dark north... Posts: 5,198 Rep Power: 92 System Specs	I'd try to move the RAM around a couple of times. Just take them out and reseat them try different ramslots and one memory stick a time. __________________ How You can help Hardwareheaven by using Digg

Sep 18, 2005, 07:37 AM	#11
PangingJr Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 5,989 Rep Power: 71	i like to repeat other advices above. and, you don't have to make it too secured or by pressing on the RAMs (and video card) too many times. maybe just check them one last time before closing the case by pressing both edges of the RAMs with little force. it could happen that the RAMs may not contact with DIMM sockets in the right position. you would hear a click/confirmation sound that indicates the clip at both edges of DIMM sockets are already secured the RAMs. that's all it needs for it to be in its place. reinsert both the RAMs and the video card into its sockets. and see.

Sep 18, 2005, 08:23 PM	#12
gonz0 DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: California Posts: 70 Rep Power: 0	Wikid, try putting your old ram back in and seeing if the monitor works then? Also try only putting in one stick of the new ram @ a time and see if the bios will post. Don't forget to dump the CMOS. __________________ _______ AMD Dual Core 4400+ Asus A8N-SLI Premium Motherboard 2gb OCZ Platinum Ram @ 2-3-2 Nvidia 7800GTX Sound Blaster Audigy 2ZS Western Digital 74gb Raptor Drive _______

Sep 19, 2005, 08:03 AM	Thread Starter #13
Widkidone DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: San Diego, Ca Posts: 711 Rep Power: 0	Yeah guys i did that all that of what you have metion. I checked every thing from the video card and ram being secured and snuggled in.......GRRRRR!!! Update: Well i took my computer in to see a tech.... and so far nobody has figured out the issue. Checked Monitor..... it works.....check video card... it works. Ram was placed in properly those are fine. So it might be the motherboard has might have taken a dump or something is my theory sice it did not start up with the old ram as well. So just IF my theory is correct, i am looking to replacing it with a P5P800 LGA775 and might as well upgrade the CPU and i am looking at the P4 PD series 830 Dual Core (3.0 GHz) if they are compatible to each other. But we will see later on this week what happens...... i shall be back online with vengence, LOL. I just want to say thanks Tefra from www.3dacc.net and the Driverheaven.net community for helping out on this issue. The only way i can get online is when i am here at work, and that sucks..... i want to play my BF2 __________________ Case- Cooler Master ATC-201B-BXT Aluminum Case Power Supply- Antec 480w TrueBlue480 ATX-12V MX518 Mouse CPU- AMD Athlon 64 processor 4000+ (2.4GHz) Socket-939 Motherboard-K8N Neo2 Platinum 2 GB DDR (2 pcs 1GB) PC-3200 (400) OCZ Dual Channel Platinum Hard Drive- WD 74GB 8MB 10000rpm S-ATA WD740GD Sound Card- Creative SB Audigy 2 Zs Platinum CDRW- LG GCE-8525BI 52X32X52 CD-RW OS- Microsoft Windows XP Pro Edition w/SP2 Video-Radeon X850XT AGP 256MB

Sep 19, 2005, 08:27 AM	#14
CDsDontBurn Lurking DriverHeaven Join Date: May 2003 Location: Southern California Posts: 22,779 Rep Power: 235 System Specs	sux man. from reading the thread, it seems to me that your MoBo took a dump. And if this will bring you to purchasing a new MoBo along w/the P-D 830, it has to be either a 945/955 or nVidia nForce 4 Intel edition chipset. the 915/925 chipsets won't work w/the P-D processors. Also, since your current MoBo is a 478 socket, you have DDR1. the importance of why i bring this up, is because you are looking to upgrade if your MoBo is dead (which seems to be the case, but i could be wrong still). the new set up will require you to get DDR2, so you will either have to exhange the memory you just purchased for some DDR2, or move it to another machine and purchase some DDR2. __________________ Her First Day \| A year later

Sep 19, 2005, 08:55 AM	Thread Starter #15
Widkidone DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: San Diego, Ca Posts: 711 Rep Power: 0	So you are saying that this http://www.ctpcomputer.com/CPU%20Int...e%203_0GHz.htm Its not compatible to this http://www.ctpcomputer.com/Motherboa...s%20P5P800.htm And that with all this togther it will not work a X850XT AGP 256mb card and a PC-3200 (400) OCZ Dual Channel Platinum 2 GB (2 pcs 1GB) found here http://www.monarchcomputer.com/Merch...Unbuffered_OCZ __________________ Case- Cooler Master ATC-201B-BXT Aluminum Case Power Supply- Antec 480w TrueBlue480 ATX-12V MX518 Mouse CPU- AMD Athlon 64 processor 4000+ (2.4GHz) Socket-939 Motherboard-K8N Neo2 Platinum 2 GB DDR (2 pcs 1GB) PC-3200 (400) OCZ Dual Channel Platinum Hard Drive- WD 74GB 8MB 10000rpm S-ATA WD740GD Sound Card- Creative SB Audigy 2 Zs Platinum CDRW- LG GCE-8525BI 52X32X52 CD-RW OS- Microsoft Windows XP Pro Edition w/SP2 Video-Radeon X850XT AGP 256MB

Sep 19, 2005, 09:39 AM	Thread Starter #17
Widkidone DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: San Diego, Ca Posts: 711 Rep Power: 0	Ok then what about this then as for the processor instead: http://www.ctpcomputer.com/CPU%20Int...B%203_4GHz.htm __________________ Case- Cooler Master ATC-201B-BXT Aluminum Case Power Supply- Antec 480w TrueBlue480 ATX-12V MX518 Mouse CPU- AMD Athlon 64 processor 4000+ (2.4GHz) Socket-939 Motherboard-K8N Neo2 Platinum 2 GB DDR (2 pcs 1GB) PC-3200 (400) OCZ Dual Channel Platinum Hard Drive- WD 74GB 8MB 10000rpm S-ATA WD740GD Sound Card- Creative SB Audigy 2 Zs Platinum CDRW- LG GCE-8525BI 52X32X52 CD-RW OS- Microsoft Windows XP Pro Edition w/SP2 Video-Radeon X850XT AGP 256MB

Sep 19, 2005, 09:56 AM	Thread Starter #19
Widkidone DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: San Diego, Ca Posts: 711 Rep Power: 0	First the the link is broken or something. And this [color=#606420]http://www.ctpcomputer.com/CPU%20In...MB%203_4GHz.htm[/color] i cannot use..... Well any ideas then?? What would support my X850XT 256mb AGP and my OCZ PC 3200 (400) DDR 2GB (2 pcs 1GB) that is assuming that my current motherboard is toast. Now as for going to the AMD route would the following support my X850XT 256mb AGP and my OCZ PC 3200 (400) DDR 2GB (2 pcs 1GB): http://www.ctpcomputer.com/Motherboa...V%20Deluxe.htm http://www.ctpcomputer.com/CPU%20AMD...20Ath-4200.htm __________________ Case- Cooler Master ATC-201B-BXT Aluminum Case Power Supply- Antec 480w TrueBlue480 ATX-12V MX518 Mouse CPU- AMD Athlon 64 processor 4000+ (2.4GHz) Socket-939 Motherboard-K8N Neo2 Platinum 2 GB DDR (2 pcs 1GB) PC-3200 (400) OCZ Dual Channel Platinum Hard Drive- WD 74GB 8MB 10000rpm S-ATA WD740GD Sound Card- Creative SB Audigy 2 Zs Platinum CDRW- LG GCE-8525BI 52X32X52 CD-RW OS- Microsoft Windows XP Pro Edition w/SP2 Video-Radeon X850XT AGP 256MB Last edited by Widkidone; Sep 19, 2005 at 10:46 AM.

Sep 19, 2005, 04:27 PM	#20
CDsDontBurn Lurking DriverHeaven Join Date: May 2003 Location: Southern California Posts: 22,779 Rep Power: 235 System Specs	That MoBo you found should work fine w/the x2 chip. however the MoBo may need a BIOS update for it to work w/that chip. I would rather recomend you get an nForce 3 chipset MoBo though. you will get better performance out of your rig w/an nForce 3 chipset. oh, and the link works fine for me. might be something on your end __________________ Her First Day \| A year later

Sep 19, 2005, 04:56 PM	#21
ReDGuiTaR DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Quebec , Canada Posts: 746 Rep Power: 0	I would recommend a Nforce3 chipset also as Via bring a lot of problem sometimes and you have to be very touchy to make it stable ... Or you can always sell that x850 AGP and buy a new PCI-E card and go Nforce4 , you will have to take the curve sooner or later anyways. Since you have to buy a new MoBo why not jump in the wagon now ? otherwise you will have to replace the MoBo again in a few months . __________________ Zing a ling... zing a ling a ling ... A8N-E - A64x2 4600, 2048 Mb Kingston ram 400mhz cas 2.5 ( 2 x 1024 DualChannel ), Seagate 320 Gig 7200 16Mb cache S-ata 2, GeForce 7900GT 512MB, Enermax 460watt power supply, WindowsXP SP2. Last edited by ReDGuiTaR; Sep 19, 2005 at 05:03 PM.