DH Guide: Lapping a Heatsink

The_Neon_Cowboy · Jan 10, 2004, 01:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by gaborn415
Playing second fiddle is always rough. Of course you should have some practice trying to keep up with me in CoD.

hey areun u that guy thats always on the ground in a pool of blood?
with me pumping a fex extra rounds in lol

**Roadee** · Jan 10, 2004, 04:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Matth
I recall reading somewhere else that the only gain from a mirror finish is in appearance, and that it MAY perform slightly worse than satin.

Suggestions were that a non-mirror finish provides a better thermal interface to the heatsink paste, through greater contact area, or that makes it easier for any excess paste (don't dollop it on!) to squeeze out.

This is what was wrote in my article, "Polishing the surface is not required if you have used a fine enough grade of sand paper, but really makes your work look good."

Everyone is going to have a different opinion about something, and you are going to see something a little different each place you go to. But does that make it "correct", just because you read something else.......somewhere else? Grooves in the surface TAKE AWAY contact area when collecting heat.......they add too when dissapating heat. In other words.....the smoother the surface......the more heat the metal collects.......the more fins on a heat sink.......the more surface area to dissipate heat.

FACT

Theramal compound is only used in order to aid the transfer of heat from the CPU to the heatsink. It is needed because of imperfections on the surface of a heatsink, as in, it fills in the scratches and pits. The fewer imperfections.....the less thermal compound is needed. With this in mind, lapping a heat sink ensures the surface is as close to perfectly flat as possible. Using finer and finer grades of sand paper makes more surface contact available, by removing imperfections on the surface.......as in scratches and pits.

Rubbing compound and polishing compound are forms of abrasive's.......much like sand paper and used for the same intent. To remove material. Only there "grit" factor is more like 3000 to 10,000 grit. There sole purpose is to remove imperfections. In doing this the surface will get shiny in appearance. This shine is caused by light rays bouncing off of the surface. The less imperfections that exist, the more light will bounce off of the surface without interference. Thus giving you that "mirror" finish.

The CPU's that are made do not have finely machined surfaces, so there is a need for thermal compound to aid the transfer of heat. Even if your heatsink is PERFECT........the CPU still isn't.

How much time, if any, you spend lapping a heatsink is up to you. Whether you prefer to go the extra step to polish it is up to you. Even if you get the heatsink surface perfect, the cpu die will not be. Even if you were anal enough to lap the cpu, you may or may not gain a losely measured amount. ONLY scientific, calibrated measuring devices, that measure temperature to .0000000, and are done in a controlled environment, are going to give you accurate temperatures and differences in temperature due to lapping and polishing.

Computer's are a hobby for many of us, how serious we are about the hobby is a personal choice, much like polishing a heatsink. Expand your horizon's whenever possible and remember to have FUN

Roadee

The_Neon_Cowboy · Jan 10, 2004, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Roadee
Even if your heatsink is PERFECT........the CPU still isn't.
Roadee

lol ...

thats why some people lap thier cpu's

Judas · Jan 10, 2004, 11:44 PM

you'd think that'd be a bad idea..... but.... i saw an article were someone lapped there abit NF7-S northbridge chip.... and they got a massive preformance increase do to it being alot more overclockable...

**Roadee** · Jan 11, 2004, 07:04 AM

There is so many things you can do to increase your overclock.........just depends on how far you want to go. This article was just for a simple performance increase.

Judas · Jan 11, 2004, 07:07 AM

... i'm willing to buy a kyrotech case in about 5 years..... $2000 just for the hardware...... but damn.. compressed liquid nitrogen.... -198 or lower cpu temps... and those kind of temps on 4 other things.. such as vid.... north...south bridges.....maybe another cpu if your running dual....

BWX · Jan 11, 2004, 02:11 PM

I just lapped my heatsink- it took about 6 hours- the surface was pretty big, and uneven. I started with 250 grit for about 2 hours, then went to 350 grit, then 600, then 600, then 1500, then 2000. I didn't polish it either, after 200 grit it's pretty shiny anyway.

**Roadee** · Jan 11, 2004, 02:42 PM

If you can.........post a pic of it

Also......is this the first one that you have done?

BWX · Jan 11, 2004, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Roadee
If you can.........post a pic of it Also......is this the first one that you have done?

My camera quit working, so I won't be able to post a pic any time soon

-But it's about the fourth one I have done, including video card heat sinks. I used a piece of 3/4" mdf with a 1' x 1' mirror tile attached. I also used that 99% pure isopropyl alcohol you can get in a metal can from Home Depot. The lapped heatsink gave me allot better temps, but I was also using a 1.5v Tbred going from a Palamino, so I can't really compare the temps, but I'm sure it's a much more efficient cooler now.. I tried the way you were talking about, going back in forth in one direction as opposed to a circular motion like I used to do and it seemed to work just fine, plus I could use smaller pieces of sandpaper. I wish I did have a good camera to take some pics, the difference of the surface before and after is pretty amazing.

**Roadee** · Jan 12, 2004, 05:26 AM

I think it is great that the sanding technique in the guide worked for you and that you were happy with the results. It made doing this article well worth it.

I hope you consider doing an article of your own soon, as well as other member's of DH.

The_Neon_Cowboy · Jan 21, 2004, 07:21 AM

By the way here are some figures for you...

Before lapping 30C W/AS3
After lapping 27C W/AS2

Rogan · Mar 4, 2004, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Judas
you'd think that'd be a bad idea..... but.... i saw an article were someone lapped there abit NF7-S northbridge chip.... and they got a massive preformance increase do to it being alot more overclockable...

Have you got a link to that? How did they get a nice flat contact on the N/B while they were lapping it?

Nice guide btw, thanks.

Zardon · Mar 4, 2004, 01:10 PM

I saw that guide and in fact I still have it bookmarked at home somewhere, ill hunt it out when I get home from work. im not sure I would recommend doing that to the northbridge though, unless you are an expert with these mods. you are cutting into the top of the northbridge and if you go down to far the whole chip dies. Much safer and almost as efficient taking the stock cooler off applying some good thermal paste and reseating with a better cooler.

GutterPunk · Mar 6, 2004, 06:36 PM

I will in about 2 weeks post about my experience w/ lapping a heatsink i havent yet, but im getting a performance heatsink sometime so well see how things go i really enjoyed reading this, and i learned something, my current heatsink has bad bad scratches, i have a p4 2.4 @ 2.8, @ 29-32C i will lap it and see how things go... this would be to experiement for my 3.0c that im gonna get

**Roadee** · Mar 6, 2004, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by disastropy
I will in about 2 weeks post about my experience w/ lapping a heatsink i havent yet, but im getting a performance heatsink sometime so well see how things go i really enjoyed reading this, and i learned something, my current heatsink has bad bad scratches, i have a p4 2.4 @ 2.8, @ 29-32C i will lap it and see how things go... this would be to experiement for my 3.0c that im gonna get

Sounds great, just remember not to get in a hurry, on some heat sinks it can take a little while to get what you are looking for. Find something that reflects well, so you can see how your progess it going when you are getting close to finishing. Also dont forget about "cure time" for the TIM. I prefer using AS Ceramique', just because it transfers heat extrememly well, and is SAFE to use as well as clean up is easy.

Good luck.

GutterPunk · Mar 6, 2004, 06:47 PM

thanks for the tips, I will take pics showing my progress, if i can do it ne1 can, i am also getting a new cooling unit for my vcard i can show that too... ill look @ ceramique ive always use as3

GutterPunk · Apr 4, 2004, 10:18 PM

i lapped it on my r9800 but ya know what i fogot to take pics of the process but believe me it works well! when I get some AS5 then i will post a pic of my HS cuz I have cheap paste on it for now

**Roadee** · Apr 6, 2004, 04:55 AM

Sounds good bud. I even lapped my Artic Cooling HS for my 9800 Pro. I didn't take any temperature readings for before and after......but there was a very noticable difference in temperature of the fins and the air exiting the case. Not to mention that my card overclocks much better now.

Evil Techie · May 5, 2004, 01:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Roadee
Sounds good bud. I even lapped my Artic Cooling HS for my 9800 Pro. I didn't take any temperature readings for before and after......but there was a very noticable difference in temperature of the fins and the air exiting the case. Not to mention that my card overclocks much better now.

thats a good idea, lapping arctic cooling which is already a kick ass cooler

i lap my heatsinks differently though
i use a sanding block or some sort of blocks
and work from 600 to 1200
but ive heard that to get the best results, you are NOT suppose to lap the lines crossing
you can only lap it one direction
and its like push, lift, move back, push, lift, move back...

the motion is kind of like when you are making a bread dough

The_Neon_Cowboy · May 5, 2004, 01:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Evil Techie
thats a good idea, lapping arctic cooling which is already a kick ass cooler

i lap my heatsinks differently though
i use a sanding block or some sort of blocks
and work from 600 to 1200
but ive heard that to get the best results, you are NOT suppose to lap the lines crossing
you can only lap it one direction
and its like push, lift, move back, push, lift, move back...

the motion is kind of like when you are making a bread dough

that not right... you make an L shape or you turn the heat sink as you sand.

aslo 2000 girt is were you want to sand to

Evil Techie · May 5, 2004, 01:44 AM

when i heard it, the person said that it is not suppose to give you a mirror finish but it will give you the optimal heat transfer

**Roadee** · May 5, 2004, 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Evil Techie
thats a good idea, lapping arctic cooling which is already a kick ass cooler

i lap my heatsinks differently though
i use a sanding block or some sort of blocks
and work from 600 to 1200
but ive heard that to get the best results, you are NOT suppose to lap the lines crossing
you can only lap it one direction
and its like push, lift, move back, push, lift, move back...

the motion is kind of like when you are making a bread dough

Everyone has there own little ways of doing things.....no biggie.

I was tought how to lap and polish metal by an Engineer that designed and built injection mold's for plastic. The heat transfer and surface smoothness is crucial with those presses. I also do my own porting and polishing on heads and intakes for V-8 drag race engines. What I do and how I do it works for me.

The_Neon_Cowboy · May 5, 2004, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Evil Techie
when i heard it, the person said that it is not suppose to give you a mirror finish but it will give you the optimal heat transfer

well a mirror finish will create band so good and so stong, it's possable to pull your cpu out of socket! removeing your heatsink...

the finer the better, and then you have to apply the themal paste right and all is well

BWX · May 5, 2004, 09:48 AM

I have done it with a figure "8" shape before too- and it worked very good. Actually my old generic (AOC) copper cooler lapped with a 70mm fan worked just about as good as this new SLK900A that isn't lapped with an 80mm adjustable fan- I also used the same 80mm fas on the smaller copper cooler before I swapped coolers.. Actually the SLK's spring retention force isn't nearly as strong as the generic little copper cooler, and I don't thing it compresses those 4 little black rubber round things on the CPU- I think that's why my SLK900A isn't cooling as good as it could, not that it's doing bad now, but it could be better..

That's another thing to consider though, the spring tension on the heatsink.

The_Neon_Cowboy · May 5, 2004, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BWX
I have done it with a figure "8" shape before too- and it worked very good.

long as yours chageing directions often, it will sand fine

BWX · May 5, 2004, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by The_Neon_Cowboy
long as yours chageing directions often, it will sand fine

What do you think about those little rubber disc's on a Tbred on the corners? Have you ever taken them off or shaved them down? I think I may at least shave them down a little.

The_Neon_Cowboy · May 5, 2004, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BWX
What do you think about those little rubber disc's on a Tbred on the corners? Have you ever taken them off or shaved them down? I think I may at least shave them down a little.

NNNOOOOOOOO!

leave those alone! they help keep you from cracking your core! And with an slk or a hevey cooler they acually give you 4 more just to make shure they fit up good.

I mean you can go with out them but then the core so much is easier to crack = easy to kill your cpu

They are soft and don't interfere wit contact so really i'd leave them be...

BWX · May 5, 2004, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by The_Neon_Cowboy
NNNOOOOOOOO!

leave those alone! they help keep you from cracking your core! And with an slk or a hevey cooler they acually give you 4 more just to make shure they fit up good.

I mean you can go with out them but then the core so much is easier to crack = easy to kill your cpu

They are soft and don't interfere wit contact so really i'd leave them be...

Yeah I wasn't sure if they were interfering or not- It doens't seem like they would, but my spring isn't very strong-
I still have to apply considerable force connecting it because it has all three of the spaces that have to click in on each side of the socket- my old HS only used 3 on one side, and one on the side you needed to connect..

It seems like I saw somone remove those before though, but I can't remember ..

The_Neon_Cowboy · May 5, 2004, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BWX
Yeah I wasn't sure if they were interfering or not- It doens't seem like they would, but my spring isn't very strong-
I still have to apply considerable force connecting it because it has all three of the spaces that have to click in on each side of the socket- my old HS only used 3 on one side, and one on the side you needed to connect..

It seems like I saw somone remove those before though, but I can't remember ..

some people use like nylon /rubber washers insted

but theats not the best idea

wel some time thier removal is accendetnal like while cleaning and then there is not much you can do bout it. it's part of the cpu if it isremoved, well i forget if it effects the warrenty

those are best kind of clips... ithink through the board mounting should be standerdised... it's so much better..

warpigs · Jul 23, 2004, 06:49 AM

What heatsinks are you guys lapping? I lapped my Thermaltake Silent Boost, I haven't seen much improvement but that might be because it's not a performance heatsink.

Jan 11, 2004, 07:04 AM	#35
Roadee Never forgotten Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Rest In peace, Joe. Posts: 2,198 Rep Power: 67	There is so many things you can do to increase your overclock.........just depends on how far you want to go. This article was just for a simple performance increase. __________________ We are born naked, wet, and hungry. Then things get worse.

Jan 11, 2004, 02:11 PM	#37
BWX unplugged Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: USNY Posts: 19,665 Rep Power: 109 System Specs	I just lapped my heatsink- it took about 6 hours- the surface was pretty big, and uneven. I started with 250 grit for about 2 hours, then went to 350 grit, then 600, then 600, then 1500, then 2000. I didn't polish it either, after 200 grit it's pretty shiny anyway. __________________

Jan 11, 2004, 02:42 PM	#38
Roadee Never forgotten Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Rest In peace, Joe. Posts: 2,198 Rep Power: 67	If you can.........post a pic of it Also......is this the first one that you have done? __________________ We are born naked, wet, and hungry. Then things get worse.

Jan 12, 2004, 05:26 AM	#40
Roadee Never forgotten Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Rest In peace, Joe. Posts: 2,198 Rep Power: 67	I think it is great that the sanding technique in the guide worked for you and that you were happy with the results. It made doing this article well worth it. I hope you consider doing an article of your own soon, as well as other member's of DH. __________________ We are born naked, wet, and hungry. Then things get worse.

Jan 21, 2004, 07:21 AM	#41
The_Neon_Cowboy HardwareHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: U.S.A. Posts: 16,009 Rep Power: 90 System Specs	By the way here are some figures for you... Before lapping 30C W/AS3 After lapping 27C W/AS2 __________________

Mar 4, 2004, 01:10 PM	Thread Starter #43
Zardon DriverHeaven Founder Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 32,480 Rep Power: 177	I saw that guide and in fact I still have it bookmarked at home somewhere, ill hunt it out when I get home from work. im not sure I would recommend doing that to the northbridge though, unless you are an expert with these mods. you are cutting into the top of the northbridge and if you go down to far the whole chip dies. Much safer and almost as efficient taking the stock cooler off applying some good thermal paste and reseating with a better cooler.

Mar 6, 2004, 06:36 PM	#44
GutterPunk I = Greatest Dood Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Nebraska Posts: 5,949 Rep Power: 70	I will in about 2 weeks post about my experience w/ lapping a heatsink i havent yet, but im getting a performance heatsink sometime so well see how things go i really enjoyed reading this, and i learned something, my current heatsink has bad bad scratches, i have a p4 2.4 @ 2.8, @ 29-32C i will lap it and see how things go... this would be to experiement for my 3.0c that im gonna get __________________ Rock On \m/ Thank you Mousey for the Sig! --------------- Intel Core2Duo E6660 (3.4GHZ) ~ Tuniq Tower 120 ~ Enermax Galaxy 1000W ~ Corsair Dominator @ 1090MHZ 5-5-5-15 (OCZ XTC Modded Cooler)~ EVGA 8800GTX W/ HR-03 Plus 120MM ~ Asus DVD-RW LiteScribe ~ LG DVD-RW ~ Corsair Voyager 2GB ReadyBoost Drive ~ Vantec Nexus Fan Controller ~ ThermalTake Armor 25CM fan ~ Personal Finance Blog: Dent Your Debt

Mar 6, 2004, 06:47 PM	#46
GutterPunk I = Greatest Dood Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Nebraska Posts: 5,949 Rep Power: 70	thanks for the tips, I will take pics showing my progress, if i can do it ne1 can, i am also getting a new cooling unit for my vcard i can show that too... ill look @ ceramique ive always use as3 __________________ Rock On \m/ Thank you Mousey for the Sig! --------------- Intel Core2Duo E6660 (3.4GHZ) ~ Tuniq Tower 120 ~ Enermax Galaxy 1000W ~ Corsair Dominator @ 1090MHZ 5-5-5-15 (OCZ XTC Modded Cooler)~ EVGA 8800GTX W/ HR-03 Plus 120MM ~ Asus DVD-RW LiteScribe ~ LG DVD-RW ~ Corsair Voyager 2GB ReadyBoost Drive ~ Vantec Nexus Fan Controller ~ ThermalTake Armor 25CM fan ~ Personal Finance Blog: Dent Your Debt

Apr 4, 2004, 10:18 PM	#47
GutterPunk I = Greatest Dood Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Nebraska Posts: 5,949 Rep Power: 70	i lapped it on my r9800 but ya know what i fogot to take pics of the process but believe me it works well! when I get some AS5 then i will post a pic of my HS cuz I have cheap paste on it for now __________________ Rock On \m/ Thank you Mousey for the Sig! --------------- Intel Core2Duo E6660 (3.4GHZ) ~ Tuniq Tower 120 ~ Enermax Galaxy 1000W ~ Corsair Dominator @ 1090MHZ 5-5-5-15 (OCZ XTC Modded Cooler)~ EVGA 8800GTX W/ HR-03 Plus 120MM ~ Asus DVD-RW LiteScribe ~ LG DVD-RW ~ Corsair Voyager 2GB ReadyBoost Drive ~ Vantec Nexus Fan Controller ~ ThermalTake Armor 25CM fan ~ Personal Finance Blog: Dent Your Debt

Apr 6, 2004, 04:55 AM	#48
Roadee Never forgotten Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Rest In peace, Joe. Posts: 2,198 Rep Power: 67	Sounds good bud. I even lapped my Artic Cooling HS for my 9800 Pro. I didn't take any temperature readings for before and after......but there was a very noticable difference in temperature of the fins and the air exiting the case. Not to mention that my card overclocks much better now. __________________ We are born naked, wet, and hungry. Then things get worse.

May 5, 2004, 01:44 AM	#51
Evil Techie DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: May 2004 Location: Burnaby, BC, Canada Posts: 8 Rep Power: 0	when i heard it, the person said that it is not suppose to give you a mirror finish but it will give you the optimal heat transfer

May 5, 2004, 09:48 AM	#54
BWX unplugged Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: USNY Posts: 19,665 Rep Power: 109 System Specs	I have done it with a figure "8" shape before too- and it worked very good. Actually my old generic (AOC) copper cooler lapped with a 70mm fan worked just about as good as this new SLK900A that isn't lapped with an 80mm adjustable fan- I also used the same 80mm fas on the smaller copper cooler before I swapped coolers.. Actually the SLK's spring retention force isn't nearly as strong as the generic little copper cooler, and I don't thing it compresses those 4 little black rubber round things on the CPU- I think that's why my SLK900A isn't cooling as good as it could, not that it's doing bad now, but it could be better.. That's another thing to consider though, the spring tension on the heatsink. __________________

Jul 23, 2004, 06:49 AM	#60
warpigs DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 14 Rep Power: 0	What heatsinks are you guys lapping? I lapped my Thermaltake Silent Boost, I haven't seen much improvement but that might be because it's not a performance heatsink.