[Neshi]

as you might know, I am moving soon to new zealand to study architecture. I had a thread asking for help to build a desktop, and I was planning to buy some small notebook for college / office / internet.

I've got a friend now who visits the US and he proposed he could buy me a macbook pro and bring this with him when he returned.
Now are these macbooks alot cheaper in the States than in the Netherlands ($1499 vs €1399 for example).

My question now is, what would be a wise choice? Going with the macbook and use that as a desktop replacement (the $2500 17" macbook pro), or use the cheaper 13" alongside a desktop.. I just think it's too much money for too much power for just office and internet use.
Or go with some cheap notebook (€500-ish, like the Asus X5DIJ-SX018L) and buy powerful desktop once I am settled in New Zealand?

And if it's the latter, which I am inclined to believe it is, what notebook would you recommend. I don't want those small keyboards, but a regular sized one and the screen shouldn't be too small to work with so no 11" or anything.

[BlueMak]

A few things.
Are you going to play games on it (no matter what it is) and what games do you want to play on it, if the answer is yes?

If the answer is yes and it is games that are not demanding, or if the answer is no games, then I would definitely go for a single laptop.

Are you going to stay there and/or keep the whatever computer you buy, for a long time? More than 1+ year? Go for a laptop.

If you are moving there for good (or years) and you don't need a machine to play games, then get a good laptop.

If games were not an issue, I would get a laptop. In that case, if I could afford one, I would buy an Apple laptop and install both OS that I would need. I see no reason to go with any other brand.

If you want the laptop to be powerful enough to play demanding new games, get one of the very expensive laptops, if you are going to get a new one after 1.5-2 years.

If you want to play a lot of games and the laptop is bought only for short trips and writing notes etc, if the money is not an object, get an Apple Air. If the money is an object, get a much cheaper alternative from Asus or Toshiba etc.

If you are not going to move often, I do NOT recommend getting a powerful "gaming" laptop. They are too heavy, too demanding on power, too expensive and becoming too fast too obsolete for the too much money they cost.


Any questions?

[Zardon]

This is really such a tough answer. the macbook air is fine, but I wouldnt get it if it was the only machine you were wanting.

Your initial assumption of the 17 inch macbook pro would be my choice, and as I have both generation 5.2 and 4.1 they are high on my list - and before someone says it, not just 'cause I like Apple' (as out of my 20 systems only 4 are macs) but because you get

1920x1200 resolution (finest quality LED on the market) with 2560x1600 out (which i use to 30 inch samsung screen for work).

9600 GT and 9400 GT - which means if you want to use windows 7 as sole OS or dual boot you can and its more than capable for gaming.

Best lit keyboard on the market.

6-8 hour battery life.

One of the smallest footprint 17 inch laptops on the market.

Made of Aluminum (yes makes a big long life difference)

Best build quality on the market (internal design and layout is stunning, trust me ive had them apart).

If however you aren't wanting to dual boot and need windows for gaming or for general OS work then you need to be looking at a high quality laptop from a reputable maker. The fact you already said a Macbook however means I would assume you either dont mind modding it for windows or dont care about gaming.

if you don't care about gaming then its Macbook Pro for me, everytime (well not everytime I did recently get a Dell adamo as well but thats a story for another day). - OSx is a better general all round OS, as unpopular as that will be on these forums (and yes I do love Windows 7).

[Neshi]

I will be playing games, nothing too fancy but still some DA:origins, league of legends, tf2.
I will be staying there for at least 5 years (that's the length of the study) and I will do my very best to get a 'green card' after that: I intend to stay and live there.

The laptop would be primary for school, so no games: taking notes, office for essay's and stuff, internet. that's basically it. I would buy a beast for the 3d design stuff. this one ->
http://www.hardwareheaven.com/hardware...-feedback.html
OR I buy the heavy duty 17" macbook and not need a desktop - maybe just a bigger screen like Z mentioned?

The laptop can't be too heavy as I will be carrying it around uni etc.

I don't mind a dual boot as long as it works, I don't mind fiddling around.. I like the tech stuff.

Personally I thought a low-budget notebook + a heavy desktop would be the way to go. better tech at a lower price, easier to upgrade.
But then my friend came along and saying this about macbooks and the option to take one with him for me. It's kinda tempting.

Z, you think going for that 17" macbook and use it as a desktop replacement is a good thing to do? I will be doing some drawing designing and whatnot on it for architecture study.. It would be too big and heavy to carry to classes though,won't it..


I hate deciding these things, as I want to make the best choice. And as usual with these kinda things, it's a hell of alot of money to shell out..

[BlueMak]

If you are set to buy a powerful desktop computer, and you want a laptop just for classes, then, if you can afford it, get an Air. If you want to save money, get one of the newer netbooks. For example this one http://www.hardwareheaven.com/driverhe...-launched.html
which should prove fine for taking notes and carrying in the classroom.

I have seen people bring larger laptops (15-17 inches) to classes and it was a joke.
They are too big.

[Zardon]

Originally Posted by Neshi

Personally I thought a low-budget notebook + a heavy desktop would be the way to go. better tech at a lower price, easier to upgrade.

Well if you aren't comfortable modding OSes and you need to play games, easier going with cheap portable laptop and decent desktop to be honest. Macs while great are really quite 'different' to what you will be used to I feel. As for the mac 17 inch being like the usual bulky 17 inch PC laptop, its not no. Its still not easy to cart about but its much thinner and easy to carry than most (and im big and butch not like bluemaks clearly girlie friends ) - this is because most pcs at the back get very thick. that machine stays the same depth from front to back.

That said, If I were you i would seriously just stick with Windows PC's - if you aren't sure its very risky. I have always been using Macs and PC's and ive a huge plethora of software for both platforms. Remember any apps you have and you need on OSX you need to get again. Unless of course you dual boot (or use an application like parallels to run both at the same time, but its not great for gaming).

[BlueMak]

Wait, what? What just happened? lol

[Zardon]

Originally Posted by BlueMak

Wait, what? What just happened? lol

Hopefully my advise isn't confusing ! I would always try and recommend a macbook pro for their beautiful build quality and overall quality however if a PC based user is asking advice for a machine to handle 'everything, including gaming' then I would hate to give them information that could cause them issues. I personally can game on my macs but I can configure dual boot if I need to, it can be messy for a new macintosh user and I don't get the feeling from Neshi's last post that he is really sure himself. I feel in this case a cheap pc laptop for mobile work and a decent desktop for gaming would be his best option. It wouldn't be the option I would take personally but for him, I would say its best.

I can be more specific for Neshi if he wants more pros and cons of OSX/Macintosh or maybe he really wants a Mac for a change of scenery.

[BlueMak]

Originally Posted by Zardon

(and im big and butch not like bluemaks clearly girlie friends )

Your advice is good as always, I was talking about the above!
It's ok, I was kidding (and failed miserably).


The games Neshi mentioned should run just fine on a 9600GT, so if you are looking for/worried about reasons to not buy a macbook, your games are not it. If as Zardon said you want a change of scenery, take the offer and jump to the Apple computers.

[Neshi]

I've thought about it and I think I am almost sure I'm going for the macbook. Although I am not intirely sure and still have some questions, I would like for Z to elaborate on the dual boot thing and macs in general, as you mentioned above.
I didn't think it was such hassle to set up dualboot, using bootcamp (or what would you recommend)?
But as with all things, one time has to be the first.. so I might as well do it now

I'm just worried about Autodesk Revit Architecture, I just have to be able to run that smoothly.
Games is a good second.. I'd like to have smooth gameplay not just with the older games (that won't have to be a problem) but with newer releases also.. Bluemak already said DA:O should't be a problem, so I reckon the machine is pretty powerful. Although a 9400M + 9600 GT doesn't sound that powerful for a 1920x1200 screen.. :S

The machine comes equipped with 4gb memory. is that enough?

The things I've considered, regarding the Macbook vs Desktop. I'll be staying there for at least 5 years, but I'm not sure if I will be staying at the same place the whole time. If I move, moving an intire desktop sucks. A laptop is much more convenient. It also takes up less room...
Like Z said hooking up the macbook to a bigger screen also is a very good idea. Gives more room to work with once I'm designing. although I'm having second thoughts about the graphic power of the machine..

I guess I'm rambling a bit and I' writing things down as I think about them.
I guess what it comes down to is:
Can the macbook pro run Autodesk Revit Architecture very well or not.
a close second would be:
Can it run the games good, and I will just learn how to do dual boot.

[lepel]

I study engineering architecture as well and many people in my study use macbooks with vista on it. I'm definitively sure that a MBP is more than capable for AutoCAD. Rendering might be another issue, but in the end it's gonna get the job done.

My advise though would be to get a relatively small laptop to go to classes. I don't know about netbooks: the keyboard is too crammed for a relax typing experience. I'd suggest around 13". Maybe a MB Air. In any case, a 17" laptop isn't something you'd carry around very easily. Also if you buy an expensive MBP you have to be careful: dropping, stealing, etc.

I'd put the real money in a capable main PC. You could opt for a micro ATX build if you're moving a lot.

[Neshi]

the 17" that would be a desktop replacement, it would rarely leave my room. I would go with a small netbook or notebook either way, Be it a MBP, a heavy duty notebook or a desktop.

Something small, easy to carry is much too convenient not to use for classes.

[Takaharu]

If you're planning on doing graphics work as your highest priority go with the MAC. Owning it for 5 years I'm sure you'll have time to work out the bugs on how to effectively dual-boot if need be.
If you're planning on doing anything else PC-related go with the Windows system.

$2500 is just over £1500 at the mo, which could quite happily get you a decent graphics card, quad-core processor and 4GB RAM and that's judging by Alienware (who don't have a reputation for being cheap). As far as comparing specs I'd personally say look at the programs you'll need to use and what system they're designed for.

[dj_stick]

dual booting using Bootcamp is actually quite easy, guides you through all the steps - have done so on both my desktop and MBA - only issue with the MBA was the trackpad was a bit iffy (This was however, over a year ago - I'm pretty sure the trackpad drivers with that come with bootcamp 10.6 are much better - but it's something to look into, or you could plug in a mouse)

[BlueMak]

The architecture program looks like it depends more on the CPU than the GPU. Unless I am grossly mistaken, you will have no problem with a 9600 or 9400 GPU.
Using a not BIG monitor might be more of an issue for your comfort, than the GPU.

In terms of games, for many games you will have to play at lower resolutions. Even the 9600 was never supposed to be a superpowerful GPU and is now (even forgetting that it is an 8XXX series GPU with another name), 2 generations old.
But, I thought that the new Apple computers used the ATI 4XXX series GPUs now?

If you are set on playing PC games, and if you are a PC gamer you know you will, then try to buy a cheap Apple laptop and buy a desktop PC with the remaining money.
If you go for a mATX, you should be ok travelling within the same country.
It's not like you are going to take it with you ever week.

If you do not have disposable income of that calibre, do not buy an expensive laptop (Apple or not) and take it to the classes. You ARE going to regret it sooner or later.
One of the main reasons, that I mentioned earlier (my guess is that was the point Z was teasing me about), is the size of 15-17" laptops in classrooms. They look HUGE there and very out of place. Plus it is very easy for you or others to damage it by accident.

BTW, if you are taking a laptop to a class to take notes, make sure you are very fast typist, and that you won't need to also draw on it depending on the class.
Meaning, make sure you don't buy a dedicated laptop for the classroom and end up preferring using a notepad and a pencil because it is so much better at it.

Buying a laptop, an Apple laptop too, is a great idea and good purchase, just make sure you buy it for the best reason.

Also, I hope you know it, there is no way in hell you are going to play new games on a laptop you buy now, 5 years from now. Two or 3 is pushing it, depending on the games you play.

Unless of course you go the console gaming way.
Instead of buying a desktop PC, buy a console, use a 200-300$ netbook for the classes (or a $5? notepad and pencil), and get a nice expensive Apple laptop (or desktop) for your work and some games that you already have.

[Neshi]

I guess the best thing to do for me is wait till I am in the country and had my first classes. Then decide if a notebook / netbook for classes is a viable option and if going notebook or desktop is the best way..

But I am still very interested in the macbook, so if Z could still tell me more about it, I would be very thankful. I don't know so much about it..

[Neshi]

Originally Posted by Zardon

I can be more specific for Neshi if he wants more pros and cons of OSX/Macintosh or maybe he really wants a Mac for a change of scenery.

I'm bumping the thread. I would love it if you could explain more to me. I pm'ed you about it, but got no answer.. so I thought bumping might help

[swimtech]

The 13" Macbook Pro is an outstanding value and looks to suit your needs - and it has the aluminum unibody, LED backlit screen, etc. It's small and light, powerful, and flexible. Take a look!

The base model is $1199 in the states, bump the ram to 4G for $100.

For dual booting, I'd get a large-ish hard drive, 320G or so, but not from Apple - it's a bit overpriced as an option. Buy the 320g at a discount retailer and an external enclosure then use the original drive as an external backup device.

Many here know I've used my original MB Pro as a Windows machine for almost four years now - and yes, it's running Win 7 Ultimate right now. It's been not just a good Windows laptop, it's been a great Windows laptop.

[Neshi]

would that be powerful enough to do the job as a desktop replacement?
Like I stated above I would buy the macbook as desktop replacement and then buy a little "office" notebook to take with me. The macbook would serve as a design / school / game unit. And I would probably hook it up to a larger screen.

[BlueMak]

I think it is a mistake to buy a macbook (or any laptop) as a desktop replacement, especially for gaming. You can spend half the money for it on a desktop PC for a much faster computer. With the remaining money you can buy a small cheap laptop if you need one to carry at school, and have enough money left for other things.

[Neshi]

I guess you're right. I'll have to wait and see how big the room is that I can get in NZ first, before I can make my decision on a desktop or laptop.. I want to thank all of you for the contribution to this thread.

[swimtech]

It's hard to make a really good suggestion without knowing about how much you have to spend on the unit(s).

For most, the Macbook 13" is their only computer - but they're not avid gamers.

A PC laptop iin the $450-700 range really is "just right" for classwork - accessing online supplemental materials, quizzes, tests, communication with the professor, collaboration with other students, and so on - and nearly no one actally uses their laptop in class for taking notes and so forth. Heh, a laptop in class is more than not used as a diversion from the class material - rude behavior by the student from the professor's perspective! BTW, be sure to check on the needed specifications for your university's network - wireless and wired - so that your laptop is usable without issues, and the software they recommend or require so your chosen machine will run that well. Your chosen university probably has brand and model suggestions that they know will work, and might even provide support for - I know we do.

I suggested the 13" Macbook Pro to do all you've stated you want to do - the relatively light gaming included, and more outside of class - thinking ahead that you might not really have room for a "gaming desktop" depending upon where you'll end up living (dorm rooms and many apartments are tiny - desktops are relatively large and can be noisy). If you do, you could build or buy one later, after you settle into your daily routine, have to deal with roommates, security for your stuff - those "living" issues...

[Neshi]

ok. Now I'm in New Zealand I can comment a little bit more on the things here.
The room I'm getting is like 4x4-5x5m. So it's a nice size room. Room enough for a queen size bed, desk, chair, closet etc. A (potential) desktop could go under the desk...

Cheapest 14" laptop is 1500nz$. thats like a 1000 dollars? (750 euro's) so it's not super cheap.. this would be the Acer Timeline 4810T.
The price goes up for a 13.3".

Still, I'll have to wait till march for the classes to start.. so I can't really tell now if a piece of paper and a pen would be enough, or that a notebook is the way to go. I guess I'll just have to do with internet cafe's till that time.
I'll definately post here again once I've had some classes.

[Necrosis]

I just picked up a regular Macbook for $999.00 plus a $200.00 rebate. Great little laptop, and I really like it so far. It may not have the fancy aluminum body but stays very cool compared to my HP.

[Neshi]

I decided I can do the 3d stuff at school, they got computers for that. The only thing I'd like to do at home is internet, officework and the ocasional game. I am not sure about the screen size and what kind of hardware I should have for that, could you help me out with that?
is 15" enough, or would 17" be better..? What kind videocard would be neccesary to play DA:O smoothly? things like that..

[Tyrsonswood]

So, if it's going to stay at home are you still thinking notebook? If so why........

[Neshi]

Not much room, but a desktop would fit. So that's no excuse.

I won't be staying in the home I am now in. I know I will be moving next year. I think moving a desktop is much more hassle then moving a notebook. But now I think about it, I would have to move furniture as well.. and I'll be doing that with a moving company, they could take the desktop too.

I'm just not sure what I should do...
I'm kinda afraid that I will end up spending too much money on hardware then neccesary. That I buy too much power. with a notebook I won't have that problem.
although, going for AMD with this system will save some cash though.. hmm.

I'm confused.

looking at the building helper thing, I guess I could build a pretty decent system for 2000NZ$, and get more then a with a 2000NZ$ laptop.

[Tyrsonswood]

There you go..... Not that I dislike notebooks but I never recommend them unless there is a specific need..... My main reason for thinking that way is their portability.... someone else can easily walk away with your whole system. Not so easy with a desktop you know.....


Besides all the heat, lower power, need to mod graphics drivers, etc. etc. They truly have their place and are amazing machines when someone needs that, but the "cool factor" doesn't fly with me..... Just sayin.

[BlueMak]

I spent the last 13 years of my life between shitty apartments, even shittier halls of residences, and shitholes called student flats.
In between I owned several computers, some desktops, some laptops.

For me it is simple, if you don't need and by need I mean travel every day to work with your computer on your back, mobility, do NOT get a laptop.
They are lighter and more mobile and that's about it.

They are slower, they are easier to break, harder for maintenance if something goes wrong, and its size and mobility gives it an advantage to that too...
If you use it for more than half an hour a day you end up buying either an external monitor so that you don't go blind or with back problems, and/or a keyboard for the same and other reasons. So you end up paying more money for a laptop that you don't move, you have all the extras attached to it (ext hard drives, sticks, mouse, keyboard, monitor, printer/scanner, speakers), you end up with a laptop by name and you end up with thinking why you did something this stupid like buying a laptop.

They over heat, they break way too easily (I mean the structure), if you spill something on them it doesn't mean few dollars for new keyboard but probably new laptop, gather dust FAST and a pain to clean properly on all (most?) of them.

Unless you need to travel OFTEN with your laptop, don't get it. Unless you have plenty of money and can spend on anything you desire, don't get it.
It's a waste of money unless you buy it knowing that you buy it to satisfy your sweet tooth and that's about it.

As for what system, laptop or desktop, to buy, it basically comes down to the games you play, the games you want to play and the games you know you will end up playing (setting aside all stupid ideas that you won't play games because you want to focus on your studies and all that BS every student says to himself)


If you go for an AMD based system, you could get a good enough quad core system to last you (playing new demanding games) for at least 2 years, perhaps 3, for perhaps about $1000.


EDIT: To make it clear, I don't own computers just the last 13 years, but the last 13 years I move so often)

[Neshi]

just made this build.. is it any good?

with a monitor I will hit just under 2000 dollar I presume.