Windows Vetran,Linux well not even a newb

~~ut2k4wikichici~~ · May 4, 2005, 08:05 AM

Hello peeplz i have been with windows since i was born 1991 may and since windows 3.1 windows has been buggy driver picky and un helpful

SO! i kept on asking my self "what the hell is linux?"

Is it better

Can it run games that require SP1 in windows XP ?

Would i get any more performace then i would in windows? (in 32bit games)

What are the benifits of Linux ?

Thankyou looking forward to hearing from u all ive allways wanted to try linux and yea

UberLord · May 4, 2005, 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ut2k4wikichici

Hello peeplz i have been with windows since i was born 1991 may and since windows 3.1 windows has been buggy driver picky and un helpful

I feel for you

Quote:

SO! i kept on asking my self "what the hell is linux?"

It's a kernel. Windows NT, 2000, XP and 2003 have kernels too - you just don't see them. Kernels bascically manage your hardware at a very low level and provide a software layer between user-space programs and the hardware.

Quote:

Is it better

Depends on the context.
Better as a server? Yes
Better as a desktop? Yes
Better for playing games? No (but it's improving)

Quote:

Can it run games that require SP1 in windows XP ?

Not unless you buy some sort of package like Cedega that allows this to some extent. The games won't be as fast (most of the time you will not notice this) and some games will have bugs as a result of Windows being emulated.

Why don't you check your games list
http://transgaming.org/gamesdb/

Quote:

Would i get any more performace then i would in windows? (in 32bit games)

Mostly no, but sometimes yes. Doom3 and UT2004 play better under Windows on my box. Enemy Territory plays better under Linux on my box. Note, all three of those games work natviely under Linux without any need for something like Cedega - but games like this are few and far between.

Quote:

What are the benifits of Linux ?

Freedom.
I can install what I want, not what is dictated.
I can safely save documents knowing that I can open them with other applications.

Standards.
Programs are written to open, documented standards which means greater competition. There a a choice of at least 8 Desktop Environments (GNOME, KDE, XFCE, Fluxbox, OpenBox, BlackBox, ICEWM, Enlightenment) which control how your desktop looks and feels.

Under Windows there is only 1 - no choice. And for me, that's no choice.

Quote:

Thankyou looking forward to hearing from u all ive allways wanted to try linux and yea

Thank-you for listening. Maybe you'll try Linux, maybe you won't. Hopefully you will

BTW, you mention Windows 3.1 - the days of DOS. If you enjoyed finding the best TSR's to contol your mouse, etc, and squeezing them into the High Memory Area so everything was good, fast and you had enough low memory for games then the recommended Linux distro for you is .......... Gentoo

~~ut2k4wikichici~~ · May 4, 2005, 10:47 AM

Thankyou very much i will go to the local shop and see how much it is

PS. will it run GTA SA PC better then windows would ? (just a hypofetical Question)

UberLord · May 4, 2005, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ut2k4wikichici

Thankyou very much i will go to the local shop and see how much it is

I doubt if shops stock any Linux distros. Best idea would be to download a CD set - in Gentoo's case you need a LiveCD or a Universal CD + GRP CD's depending on how you want to install it.

Failing that, you can always order CD sets online. Gentoo has a online shop for this.

Quote:

PS. will it run GTA SA PC better then windows would ? (just a hypofetical Question)

NFC
But seeing as GTA III and GTA VC are supported, there's a good chance GTA SA will at least run. Also they have very high playability ratings which means that it will play well - however the user that posted that may have a super ninja PC, so YMMV

~~ut2k4wikichici~~ · May 5, 2005, 06:14 AM

Thankyou Uber lord. its a shame i have 56k and i live out where i carnt get Broad band otherwise i would D/L linux

But thankyou anyway

epi1lux · May 9, 2005, 07:49 AM

Freedom? I've never been told NO! by windows that I couldn't install something. I've been told NO! by linux a crap load of times that I'm an idiot.

UberLord · May 9, 2005, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by epi1lux

Freedom? I've never been told NO! by windows that I couldn't install something.

I didn't claim that Windows stopped you installing stuff.
Do you have the Freedom to change the Windows TCP/IP stack to make it more standards compliant? NO!

Do I have this Freedom in Linux? YES! *BSD? YES!

You may not want this Freedom, but others like myself do like this Freedom.

Quote:

I've been told NO! by linux a crap load of times that I'm an idiot.

Is that NO! you're not a idiot or NO! you are an idiot?

I'm not saying that you are an idiot, but it's not hard to install, learn and use a Linux distribution.

epi1lux · May 9, 2005, 04:56 PM

If it wasn't hard, wouldn't more people be using it? I've tried 6 times over the years and all of them had some major failure. 3 on gentoo alone that wouldn't even boot, 3 others where there was no internet, no mouse + keyboard, no sound.... ugh!

And what does changing that stack do for you?

UberLord · May 9, 2005, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by epi1lux

If it wasn't hard, wouldn't more people be using it?

More and more people are using it. Remember that a lot of people haven't even heard about Linux or *BSD. Too many people think PC = Windows. They think that Apple Macs are just expensive PC's that run Windows. Sad, but true.

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I've tried 6 times over the years and all of them had some major failure. 3 on gentoo alone that wouldn't even boot, 3 others where there was no internet, no mouse + keyboard, no sound.... ugh!

There have been some issues with Gentoo LiveCD's not booting but they should have been fixed by now.

If you have issues with keyboard and mouse then you must be using obscure hardware or you haven't told the distribution what keyboard layout (ie country) you have.

Seriously, Gentoo is not a beginners Linux. It is hard to install as there is no installer (yet), just an installation manual - and you have to know about your hardware too.

If RedHat (Fedora), Ubuntu or SuSE won't work with an easy install then you would have had to have done something seriously stupid as they are just insert CD's, click a few options, install and you're working right away. The only gotcha is modems (including ADSL) as they are a PITA. Routers on the other hand are zero problem

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And what does changing that stack do for you?

Make it standards compliant so it does not abuse QoS to give it a false impression that it's faster in Networking benchmarks for starters. You may say that it's taking advantage of something to make it go faster, but a lot of people don't like it as it's not supposed to do that.

Another example is that you should code web pages to the W3C HTML and CSS standards and not Microsofts own variantion which only works under IE.

Standards compliance is for everyone except Microsoft.

epi1lux · May 9, 2005, 09:03 PM

Ahhh, I see. No my hardware was your run of the mill microsoft mouse and keyboard from like 1997. Go figure. I'd prolly be on linux if it wasn't for games.... *sigh*

UberLord · May 9, 2005, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by epi1lux

Ahhh, I see. No my hardware was your run of the mill microsoft mouse and keyboard from like 1997. Go figure. I'd prolly be on linux if it wasn't for games.... *sigh*

Now that's really weird. Every distro I have used (RedHat 5 to 9, Mandrake 8 to 9, Gentoo 1.4 to present) has had no problem with my keyboard (MS Office keyword) or mouse (MS IntelliExplorer).

It may be that your computer has a quirky BIOS - I don't know.
Maybe if you tried again and posted exact error messages I could say more, but a simple "didn't work" isn't much to go on!

And if Windows was so trouble free, there would be no need for these forums eh?

IMO the only reason to run Windows is for games. But with top titles such as Unreal Tournament and all the iD titles (doom1-3, Quake 1-3) and Enemy Territory with native Linux versions it's not all bad

Kombatant · May 10, 2005, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UberLord

Now that's really weird. Every distro I have used (RedHat 5 to 9, Mandrake 8 to 9, Gentoo 1.4 to present) has had no problem with my keyboard (MS Office keyword) or mouse (MS IntelliExplorer).

It may be that your computer has a quirky BIOS - I don't know.
Maybe if you tried again and posted exact error messages I could say more, but a simple "didn't work" isn't much to go on!

And if Windows was so trouble free, there would be no need for these forums eh?

IMO the only reason to run Windows is for games. But with top titles such as Unreal Tournament and all the iD titles (doom1-3, Quake 1-3) and Enemy Territory with native Linux versions it's not all bad

100% agreed to what Uberlord said. I also have the MS Keyboard/Mouse combo and have zero probs with it (even the multimedia keys work).

Linux is getting more popular by the day, if I may say so. The notion PC = Windows is very strong (almost as strong as Web pages = Internet explorer once was, but nowadays Firefox is changing that) but the tides are changing.

epi1lux · May 10, 2005, 07:08 PM

For the large part I would say we don't need these forums. Niche community doing niche things. Most people won't ever come here. We both know who these forums are really targeted at.

But alas, it is games and Microsoft office that keeps me. I have to hang and stay with what formats and stuff my college uses.

Zardon · May 10, 2005, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by epi1lux

For the large part I would say we don't need these forums. Niche community doing niche things. Most people won't ever come here. We both know who these forums are really targeted at.

That is pertinant to 99% of tech forums. not sure the point you are making with relevance to linux or windows. Do you mean the whole site or the linux forums?

And yes if you mean the forums are primarily targetted at driver support, they are indeed, but many people want to learn linux so with experts like uberlord around im sure they will learn !

Kombatant · May 10, 2005, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by epi1lux

For the large part I would say we don't need these forums. Niche community doing niche things. Most people won't ever come here. We both know who these forums are really targeted at.

Actually you are wrong. These forums are here for help to exactly those people who need help and (believe me) come here to find it. Yes, it is also a place where the "niche community", as you call it, posts and argues, but it's primary goal is to help newbies. And believe me, it has done just that numerous times. You don't have to post to get help; searching for previous topics is equally valuable.

Quote:

But alas, it is games and Microsoft office that keeps me. I have to hang and stay with what formats and stuff my college uses.

Actually, just games. OpenOffice.org is a damn fine alternative, and it reads and writes in MS formats so there is no reason to use MS Office anymore.

epi1lux · May 11, 2005, 12:30 AM

Umm... I don't see how I'm wrong. This is a niche site. Only people who are internet savvy or atleast have a broad understanding of computers come here. If your interested in Linux, you qualify for both. If you are changing windows drivers on a monthly basis, you qualify for both, see my point?

As for OpenOffice, very good news to hear! I figured they did but I wasn't sure if it directly wrote in MS formats due to legalities or conversion or what have you.

Also, I don't mean to be a troll or bash the forums or anyone here. I like coming here and have no intention of bashing anyone or anything.

Kombatant · May 11, 2005, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by epi1lux

Umm... I don't see how I'm wrong. This is a niche site. Only people who are internet savvy or atleast have a broad understanding of computers come here. If your interested in Linux, you qualify for both. If you are changing windows drivers on a monthly basis, you qualify for both, see my point?

I know what you mean.. what you don't realise is that one does not invalidate the other. Meaning that this forum may be "inhabitated" by people "in the know", but that doesn't stop new users to come here asking for help. And it happens all the time.

RIV@NVX · May 11, 2005, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by epi1lux

As for OpenOffice, very good news to hear! I figured they did but I wasn't sure if it directly wrote in MS formats due to legalities or conversion or what have you.

It works natively in OpenDocument and has support for Microsoft Office formats (that is, import/export). However, it's always recommended you use OpenDocument when saving and MS Office formats eventually for sharing with others, since it's always possible to lose data that way.
I personally couldn't care less about MS Office formats export (import is still needed sometimes) when PDF Export in OOo is so good!

epi1lux · May 11, 2005, 01:11 PM

I have an added question. Another reason why I haven't switched to Linux, which it seems is kinda a pet-peeve of mine, Why in the hell does almost every friggin program in any linux distro ever start with K or X? Is that some way to make it cool or what? I just don't get it.

RIV@NVX · May 11, 2005, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by epi1lux

I have an added question. Another reason why I haven't switched to Linux, which it seems is kinda a pet-peeve of mine, Why in the hell does almost every friggin program in any linux distro ever start with K or X? Is that some way to make it cool or what? I just don't get it.

If you are using KDE, then most of programs contain K in it's name to reflect that they are part of KDE.
Also, about names having X - it's because they are made to run on top of X Window System, so... xpdf means PDF reader that runs on X - you can't call it simpler way and retain meaning.
There are many programs that don't have nor K nor X. Evolution, Mozilla, Nautilus...

epi1lux · May 11, 2005, 11:53 PM

Ooooh ok. And gnome and KDE are x window systems? I still don't see the point, why not just keep it as pdf in general and that it runs?

UberLord · May 12, 2005, 10:59 AM

GNOME and KDE are Desktop Environments
GNOME uses GTK for widgets, KDE uses QT for widgets (buttons and the like)
GTK and QT both require an X Server (xfree-86 or xorg-x11)

PDF is just an open document format. Maybe you're thinking of PostScript?

epi1lux · May 12, 2005, 05:00 PM

Ok, I guess I see the point for the K because you are in KDE. I might not ever try it because I find it dumb to put K in front of alot of stuff just to refer that you are using KDE. You installed it right? Don't you already know that you are using KDE?

Also with the X, I don't see the point in that either. If mostly everything runs on an X window system (x server) then why refer to the X in front of everything if everything already runs on it? Seems silly and redundant.

With the X is it that there are that many different distros that not everything runs on a x server? I've never seen anything different and it can't be that wide spread if there are.

UberLord · May 12, 2005, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by epi1lux

Ok, I guess I see the point for the K because you are in KDE. I might not ever try it because I find it dumb to put K in front of alot of stuff just to refer that you are using KDE. You installed it right? Don't you already know that you are using KDE?

You don't have to install KDE to install KMail, however you have to install part of KDE (ie the base libraries). If I call my application WongleDong then it's an equally silly name with zero meaning. At least the K prefix - no matter how silly you or I think it is - has some meaning.

Quote:

Also with the X, I don't see the point in that either. If mostly everything runs on an X window system (x server) then why refer to the X in front of everything if everything already runs on it? Seems silly and redundant.

It's like my comment above - shows it needs just X. patch, diff, gcc, ls, chmod are POSIX shell commands and do not need X.

Quote:

With the X is it that there are that many different distros that not everything runs on a x server? I've never seen anything different and it can't be that wide spread if there are.

I have no idea what you mean by that .....

epi1lux · May 12, 2005, 09:17 PM

Ahhh, i got ya with the KMail statement.

What I meant was, does every linux system, distro, whatever, have this x system running?

UberLord · May 12, 2005, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by epi1lux

What I meant was, does every linux system, distro, whatever, have this x system running?

No.

SmoothWall and IPCop - for example - are good firewall/router/security distro's that have a web interface for management and a text-based install. No need for an X server of any kind.

Also, when you install Gentoo, you just get enough to boot to a prompt, do basic networking and compile programs. Again, no X server by default.

epi1lux · May 13, 2005, 06:05 AM

Ok, I guess what I'm getting at is doesn't the majority of the linux world use X server?

UberLord · May 13, 2005, 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by epi1lux

Ok, I guess what I'm getting at is doesn't the majority of the linux world use X server?

Desktops YES
Servers NO

I have 2 linux based desktops and maintain 3 linux based servers. So in may case, my majority does not include X.

I'm not even going to guess if the server market is bigger than the dekstop market. But if I had to, I'd say the server market is bigger.

epi1lux · May 13, 2005, 02:31 PM

Yea, I would agree that the server market is bigger as well. Do you run mp3 players on your servers? Like xmms? They couldn't just make it regular mms and just say it needs x server in the installation guide? Same with every other program that starts off with x-blah.

Maybe linux hasn't come far enough, or my windows mind trapping me, but you see a file you want to run that says its for linux should just run, regardless.

UberLord · May 13, 2005, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by epi1lux

Yea, I would agree that the server market is bigger as well. Do you run mp3 players on your servers? Like xmms? They couldn't just make it regular mms and just say it needs x server in the installation guide? Same with every other program that starts off with x-blah.

Yes, they could.

AbiWord Processor
What does that name tell you? Nothing. Maybe it's a windows program? Or is it a unix program? Does it just use X, or does it require GTK+, QT or windows?

Actually, AbiWord works on Windows and *NIX and uses the GTK+ toolset.

Quote:

Maybe linux hasn't come far enough, or my windows mind trapping me, but you see a file you want to run that says its for linux should just run, regardless.

Hehehehe
Hahahaha

Sure

Ahem

Do you know what libraries are - in computer terms?
Tell you what, download GAIM and try and run it. It's a Windows binary, but it will not run by itself - you have to download the GTK+ library and install that before GAIM will work on Windows. Ditto for XChat.

It's the same with Linux and every other OS - you need the libraries the binary was compiled for.

GTK isn't part of Windows, so you need to go and get that seperately. Of course, bundling GTK into an application download increases the size dramatically.

At the end of the day, it's only a name.

May 4, 2005, 08:05 AM	#1
~~ut2k4wikichici~~ Banned Join Date: May 2005 Location: Australia AKA. Kangaroo country Posts: 340 Rep Power: 0	Windows Vetran,Linux well not even a newb Hello peeplz i have been with windows since i was born 1991 may and since windows 3.1 windows has been buggy driver picky and un helpful SO! i kept on asking my self "what the hell is linux?" Is it better Can it run games that require SP1 in windows XP ? Would i get any more performace then i would in windows? (in 32bit games) What are the benifits of Linux ? Thankyou looking forward to hearing from u all ive allways wanted to try linux and yea

May 12, 2005, 10:59 AM	#22
UberLord A Legend in Underwear Join Date: May 2002 Location: Unknown Posts: 5,255 Rep Power: 0	GNOME and KDE are Desktop Environments GNOME uses GTK for widgets, KDE uses QT for widgets (buttons and the like) GTK and QT both require an X Server (xfree-86 or xorg-x11) PDF is just an open document format. Maybe you're thinking of PostScript? __________________ Gentoo Linux - Developer (baselayout) Read my blog "I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." Stephen Roberts

May 4, 2005, 10:47 AM	Thread Starter #3
~~ut2k4wikichici~~ Banned Join Date: May 2005 Location: Australia AKA. Kangaroo country Posts: 340 Rep Power: 0	Thankyou very much i will go to the local shop and see how much it is PS. will it run GTA SA PC better then windows would ? (just a hypofetical Question)

May 5, 2005, 06:14 AM	Thread Starter #5
~~ut2k4wikichici~~ Banned Join Date: May 2005 Location: Australia AKA. Kangaroo country Posts: 340 Rep Power: 0	Thankyou Uber lord. its a shame i have 56k and i live out where i carnt get Broad band otherwise i would D/L linux But thankyou anyway

May 9, 2005, 07:49 AM	#6
epi1lux DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 28 Rep Power: 0	Freedom? I've never been told NO! by windows that I couldn't install something. I've been told NO! by linux a crap load of times that I'm an idiot.

May 9, 2005, 04:56 PM	#8
epi1lux DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 28 Rep Power: 0	If it wasn't hard, wouldn't more people be using it? I've tried 6 times over the years and all of them had some major failure. 3 on gentoo alone that wouldn't even boot, 3 others where there was no internet, no mouse + keyboard, no sound.... ugh! And what does changing that stack do for you?

May 9, 2005, 09:03 PM	#10
epi1lux DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 28 Rep Power: 0	Ahhh, I see. No my hardware was your run of the mill microsoft mouse and keyboard from like 1997. Go figure. I'd prolly be on linux if it wasn't for games.... sigh

May 10, 2005, 07:08 PM	#13
epi1lux DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 28 Rep Power: 0	For the large part I would say we don't need these forums. Niche community doing niche things. Most people won't ever come here. We both know who these forums are really targeted at. But alas, it is games and Microsoft office that keeps me. I have to hang and stay with what formats and stuff my college uses.

May 11, 2005, 12:30 AM	#16
epi1lux DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 28 Rep Power: 0	Umm... I don't see how I'm wrong. This is a niche site. Only people who are internet savvy or atleast have a broad understanding of computers come here. If your interested in Linux, you qualify for both. If you are changing windows drivers on a monthly basis, you qualify for both, see my point? As for OpenOffice, very good news to hear! I figured they did but I wasn't sure if it directly wrote in MS formats due to legalities or conversion or what have you. Also, I don't mean to be a troll or bash the forums or anyone here. I like coming here and have no intention of bashing anyone or anything.

May 11, 2005, 01:11 PM	#19
epi1lux DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 28 Rep Power: 0	I have an added question. Another reason why I haven't switched to Linux, which it seems is kinda a pet-peeve of mine, Why in the hell does almost every friggin program in any linux distro ever start with K or X? Is that some way to make it cool or what? I just don't get it.

May 11, 2005, 11:53 PM	#21
epi1lux DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 28 Rep Power: 0	Ooooh ok. And gnome and KDE are x window systems? I still don't see the point, why not just keep it as pdf in general and that it runs?

May 12, 2005, 05:00 PM	#23
epi1lux DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 28 Rep Power: 0	Ok, I guess I see the point for the K because you are in KDE. I might not ever try it because I find it dumb to put K in front of alot of stuff just to refer that you are using KDE. You installed it right? Don't you already know that you are using KDE? Also with the X, I don't see the point in that either. If mostly everything runs on an X window system (x server) then why refer to the X in front of everything if everything already runs on it? Seems silly and redundant. With the X is it that there are that many different distros that not everything runs on a x server? I've never seen anything different and it can't be that wide spread if there are.

May 12, 2005, 09:17 PM	#25
epi1lux DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 28 Rep Power: 0	Ahhh, i got ya with the KMail statement. What I meant was, does every linux system, distro, whatever, have this x system running?

May 13, 2005, 06:05 AM	#27
epi1lux DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 28 Rep Power: 0	Ok, I guess what I'm getting at is doesn't the majority of the linux world use X server?

May 13, 2005, 02:31 PM	#29
epi1lux DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 28 Rep Power: 0	Yea, I would agree that the server market is bigger as well. Do you run mp3 players on your servers? Like xmms? They couldn't just make it regular mms and just say it needs x server in the installation guide? Same with every other program that starts off with x-blah. Maybe linux hasn't come far enough, or my windows mind trapping me, but you see a file you want to run that says its for linux should just run, regardless.