Discuss ATI Proprietary Linux Driver Installer here (June 9, 2005)

redsolar · Jun 9, 2005, 05:20 PM

This is a thread where you should discuss any problems you are having with the installer, or share your opinions about it, aside from the rating opinions.

Rate Installer here

Discuss the driver here

Rate the driver here

Where to get installer and drivers

UberLord · Jun 10, 2005, 12:31 AM

Ohhhhh a nice shiny bling bling installer.
Although the bling is sadly lacking and so is the need for an installer imo.

<rant>I just want to install drivers - why *click* must *click* I *click* *click* so much? *click</rant>

That applies to the Windows drivers too. The windows installer they use is ancient (or at least looks it) and looks very unprofessional which leads me to believe that the Linux one will do no better.

cdc · Jun 15, 2005, 06:36 AM

I believe it's a step in the right direction. After all, if Linux is to ever make it into more homes, then it will have to have something like this in order to keep people from being afraid to go near the OS.

However, after my one attempt to use it (with SUSE 9.3), things appeared to go alright. It told me to reboot my system in order for the changes to take affect (restarting X, in other words.) I rebooted anyway, just to go through the motions, but after I was back in X, there was no 3D acceleration. I had to manually remove the driver, then manually install it in runlevel 3 in order to get 3D acceleration working.

On the positive side, at least it loaded the new driver (albeit, without 3D acceleration enabled). It could have been much worse (X not restarting at all, for example.)

UberLord · Jun 15, 2005, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdc

I believe it's a step in the right direction. After all, if Linux is to ever make it into more homes, then it will have to have something like this in order to keep people from being afraid to go near the OS.

Argument!

I think it's things like this that make people afraid. Think - with windows each program you install has

1) different interface (some are same, some are not)
2) asks you complicated questions (where do you want to install, do you want directx)
3) You sometimes get software you don't want (like bonzai buddy)
4) Reliant on the un-installer included by the supplier actually working

Whereas with each distro supplying it's package manager of choice you get

1) the same interface
2) no questions - do you want it installed or not? (it's not a question - you told the package manager to install it

)
3) distros are normally quite moral and don't install software you don't want (like bonzai buddy)
4) uninstaller should work fine as it's part of the package manager and not 3rd party

*mtippett* · Jun 16, 2005, 05:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UberLord

Whereas with each distro supplying it's package manager of choice you get

1) the same interface
2) no questions - do you want it installed or not? (it's not a question - you told the package manager to install it

)
3) distros are normally quite moral and don't install software you don't want (like bonzai buddy)
4) uninstaller should work fine as it's part of the package manager and not 3rd party

I went through a lot of carefuly thought with the installer. I came to the realization that there were two types of users.

o The users that just want to install the drivers in any way that they can.

o Users who understand Linux and want to have packages that can be installed and removed cleanly.

With the installer, I feel we have covered both off. At startup you have the option of doing an install that just overlays over the filesystem - with all the potentially bad effects. But you can also create a package. That is presented to the user right at the start.

The ability to create packages is an important part of the installer. ATI will not be able create and stabilise the creation of packages for all distributions. But we have created the infrastructure to allow users to create packages that can be used natively. If you unpack the installer then you will find the distribution directories. All that ATI cares about is that the script atipackager.sh can be invoked correctly to get supported packages and generate the packages.

If you want to add a package generation option to the installer, contact me and I get you on the beta program to allow it to be integrated.

Regards,

Matthew

Kombatant · Jun 16, 2005, 09:47 AM

What I would like to see (and I am certain that I will see it sooner or later, just a matter of time) is an indication that something went wrong when something does. Finding and reading a log that is stored somewhere in the filesystem may be Ok by me, but not for the amateur Linux user.

UberLord · Jun 16, 2005, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mtippett

I went through a lot of carefuly thought with the installer. I came to the realization that there were two types of users.

o The users that just want to install the drivers in any way that they can.

o Users who understand Linux and want to have packages that can be installed and removed cleanly.

With the installer, I feel we have covered both off. At startup you have the option of doing an install that just overlays over the filesystem - with all the potentially bad effects. But you can also create a package. That is presented to the user right at the start.

o Users who have their OS update all their software to stable in the background

Now this may come as a shock, but I really do not care about having to goto company A, download an updated driver, install it, then goto company B and repeat process just to get a new game to work. Why should I jump through all those loops when my computer is perfectly capable of doing it for me?

And if you disagree with that, then surely you don't like Windows Update which does the same thing? But then maybe you don't like it as MS WHQL certified drivers don't appear on it - or at least I've never seen them.

Quote:

The ability to create packages is an important part of the installer. ATI will not be able create and stabilise the creation of packages for all distributions. But we have created the infrastructure to allow users to create packages that can be used natively. If you unpack the installer then you will find the distribution directories. All that ATI cares about is that the script atipackager.sh can be invoked correctly to get supported packages and generate the packages.

So really - this is actually a tool for Distro's to use to create their RPM's, DEB's, ebuilds, whatever and not for Joe User. Maybe even get them ATI Certified? heh

Quote:

If you want to add a package generation option to the installer, contact me and I get you on the beta program to allow it to be integrated.

No thanks - I know that the Gentoo ebuild for ati-drivers works as advertised.

UberLord · Jun 16, 2005, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kombatant

What I would like to see (and I am certain that I will see it sooner or later, just a matter of time) is an indication that something went wrong when something does. Finding and reading a log that is stored somewhere in the filesystem may be Ok by me, but not for the amateur Linux user.

What went wrong?

File didn't install? Config file isn't correct? The key "A" doesn't work due to spilt coffee?

They are all valid reasons why something went wrong.

But Linux isn't alone here - when I first got a new ATI 8500, 9500 then a 9700 pro all three cards had a similar issue. Namely the drivers would refuse to install - and if they did install they didn't work for any games. Fortunately, a new driver was normally release a while later which solved this issue (needed the 2nd driver for the 9700 pro). Touching wood, I've not seen this with my current 9800 pro.

With the 8500, the error was on screen and easy to see. It was something like memory violation 0x06004468 which means a something to me as a programmer, but zlitch to a user. Not that I could fix it or debug it - no source you see

And that's the installer.

With the 9{5,7}00's at least IF the driver installed it gave me a sensible error about no hardware found. Which of course was a load of BS - the hardware was plainly there for all to see.

Kombatant · Jun 17, 2005, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UberLord

What went wrong?

File didn't install? Config file isn't correct? The key "A" doesn't work due to spilt coffee?

They are all valid reasons why something went wrong.

But Linux isn't alone here - when I first got a new ATI 8500, 9500 then a 9700 pro all three cards had a similar issue. Namely the drivers would refuse to install - and if they did install they didn't work for any games. Fortunately, a new driver was normally release a while later which solved this issue (needed the 2nd driver for the 9700 pro). Touching wood, I've not seen this with my current 9800 pro.

With the 8500, the error was on screen and easy to see. It was something like memory violation 0x06004468 which means a something to me as a programmer, but zlitch to a user. Not that I could fix it or debug it - no source you see

And that's the installer.

With the 9{5,7}00's at least IF the driver installed it gave me a sensible error about no hardware found. Which of course was a load of BS - the hardware was plainly there for all to see.

I would settle for "The driver did not install successfully; read the log for details" (and providing a link or button that I would click and it would open the log) instead of a "The install completed successfully" regardless of the outcome for starters

Jun 9, 2005, 05:20 PM	#1
redsolar Off duty Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Las Vegas, USA Posts: 1,242 Rep Power: 0 System Specs	Discuss ATI Proprietary Linux Driver Installer here (June 9, 2005) This is a thread where you should discuss any problems you are having with the installer, or share your opinions about it, aside from the rating opinions. Rate Installer here Discuss the driver here Rate the driver here Where to get installer and drivers __________________ Real_Men_Do_Not_Use_Space_Bar Main rig: Intel Core i7 930 @ 4.0 Ghz \| Corsair H50 Push/Pull \| 12GB OCZ DDR3 \| ASUS Radeon HD 5850 \| 3x 1TB Samsung F3 RAID5 on Dell PERC 5i SAS + 1TB Hitachi \| MSI X58 Pro-e \| 850W Antec Truepower Quattro \| RocketFish by Lian Li Full Tower Case \| Gateway XHD3000 30" LCD \| Dell 2408WFP 24" LCD \| Dell 2407WFP 24" LCD \| Logitech Z-5500 Speakers \| Windows 7 Ultimate x64 Laptop: Samsung x360-34P \| Core 2 Duo SU9400 1.4 GHz \| 4GB DDR3 \| 128GB Samsung SSD \| Intel 4500M w/ HDMI \| WiFi \| Bluetooth \| 13.3" WLED 1280x800 \| Windows 7 Professional x64

Jun 10, 2005, 12:31 AM	#2
UberLord A Legend in Underwear Join Date: May 2002 Location: Unknown Posts: 5,255 Rep Power: 70	Ohhhhh a nice shiny bling bling installer. Although the bling is sadly lacking and so is the need for an installer imo. <rant>I just want to install drivers - why click must click I click click so much? click</rant> That applies to the Windows drivers too. The windows installer they use is ancient (or at least looks it) and looks very unprofessional which leads me to believe that the Linux one will do no better. __________________ Gentoo Linux - Developer (baselayout) Read my blog "I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." Stephen Roberts*

Jun 16, 2005, 09:47 AM	#6
Kombatant DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Athens, Hellas Posts: 644 Rep Power: 60	What I would like to see (and I am certain that I will see it sooner or later, just a matter of time) is an indication that something went wrong when something does. Finding and reading a log that is stored somewhere in the filesystem may be Ok by me, but not for the amateur Linux user. __________________ There is no spoon... Kombatant's Lair

Jun 15, 2005, 06:36 AM	#3
cdc DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 2 Rep Power: 0	I believe it's a step in the right direction. After all, if Linux is to ever make it into more homes, then it will have to have something like this in order to keep people from being afraid to go near the OS. However, after my one attempt to use it (with SUSE 9.3), things appeared to go alright. It told me to reboot my system in order for the changes to take affect (restarting X, in other words.) I rebooted anyway, just to go through the motions, but after I was back in X, there was no 3D acceleration. I had to manually remove the driver, then manually install it in runlevel 3 in order to get 3D acceleration working. On the positive side, at least it loaded the new driver (albeit, without 3D acceleration enabled). It could have been much worse (X not restarting at all, for example.)