ATI Mobility Drivers to NOT Offer Support for Older Cards

highkick · Sep 1, 2005, 07:10 AM

Official Mobility Drivers will probably never offer support for ATI's older cards, such as the Mobility 9600Pro/9700, according to the ATI representive taking questions at the Quakecon AMD Zone special event. I should know, a thousand people heard me stand up and ask the question at the event, held in one of the convention halls at the Gaylord Texan Resort in Grapevine, Texas (suburb of Dallas/Fort Worth).
We were told that when the x800 and x850 was released, laptop manufactures had to sign an agreement acknowledging the fact that ATI would be releasing updated mobility drivers for these cards. Unfortunetely, nothing was agreed upon for the older cards....

Laptop manufacturers don't want to have to deal with all the tech support calls from customers who have screwed up their video driver updates, according to the ATI Rep...

Why cant laptop manufacturers deal with customers updating their drivers? Desktop folks have had the opportunity to update to the official ATI drivers forever..........I don't get it. Am I missing something here?

I talked to the ATI Rep for a couple more minutes after the session, mentioning that with a $3000 USD gaming laptop, it's rediculous to be expected to go out and buy a new laptop, just to get official drivers that are new enough to support the newest games (obviously, no one is going to do this). At least with a desktop, if ATI were to no longer offer support for a desktop Video Card, one could just go out and spend a couple hundred dollars on a new card. I stressed that official support for older notebook cards, such as the ATI Mobility 9600Pro/9700, should be a requirement, since notebooks based on these cards didn't offer swappable video cards at the time. Basically we're stuck with a several thousand dollar investment, without any updated Windows Certified, "Official" drivers available to fix the gliches we have with newer games. Come on, my "Official" drivers are almost 1 1/2 years old, having been released 6 months before World of Warcraft was ever released.....................After I was done speaking to the rep, he said that people with the older mobility cards were basically out of luck, unless the laptop manufacturer decides to update their drivers(which we know almost never happens).

I also took the time to recommend that ATI come out with a lower voltage/amperage version of one of their newer Mobility Cards, to allow for more performance, without increasing the power requirements of the card (relative to the Mobility 9600Pro). Currently, all the newer Moblitity Cards have higher power requirements, making them useless for 5-7 pound mobile laptops, such as my Centrino laptop and my son's AMD 3200+ gaming laptop. The use of these "newer" moblity cards is relegated to desktop replacement laptops....

With Die shrinks, more pipelines, programmable shaders, and the like as available features on the newer generation cards, I'm sure ATI can produce a higher performance, truly mobile version of their video card by either crippling the card somewhat, or by reducing the voltage/amperage required, without increasing the power requirements relative to the 9600 Mobility.

Sorry for the bad news. Lets just hope that ATI is forward thinking and cares about something other than the desktop replacement market for us gamers "on the go".

patje · Sep 1, 2005, 10:15 AM

Highkick, thanks for this information. A good read btw.

I understand your point of view. Noone buying a 3000$ device should be left out with support. I agree on that. However from a company point of view, I can understand their decision. First of all, they are finally starting to support mobility cards. Fase 1 complete.
I think indeed the 9700 and previous ATI mobility card owners are going to be the ones that will pay the price. A company would probably think "well in a few years (about 3) more than 50% will already be out of use. So why concentrate on that?

On the other hand, OEM companies having to update all their drivers every time a manufacturer brings a new driver is utter crazyness. It's impossible for them to do. but a year and a half is way to long.

It's bad news indeed, but there is light at the end of the tunnel for the newer cards...

EDIT: It would be nice if one of our friendly official ATI visitors confirm this and sheds his toughts.... not?

The_Neon_Cowboy · Sep 1, 2005, 12:07 PM

People are wanting more powerfull grahics more on par with desktops,
so you have to give a litle to get a little.

Drivers for older laptops aren't done do to legal agreements. The laptop
MFG all the powers, keys and rights in that regard. You and everyone else
who buys a laptop needs to complain to the MFG to get them to update thier
drivers. Laptop MFG doesn't want to use the bandwith, or support the drivers
in any way. So you laptop makers are left in limbo...

What you can do is used mod tools and modded drivers

highkick · Sep 2, 2005, 08:11 AM

Question....Is it better to mod the Official mobility drivers or is it better to mod the Official desktop drivers?? Although ATI does not officially support older mobility cards, i'm wondering if the drivers are basically written, and only require the older video card's identification to be inserted into the drivers for the cards to be recognized.

Basically, I want the laptop to be stable, with power saving features working correctly, and games running smoothly.....No incompatabilities. (which is what everyone wants, I'm sure)

patje · Sep 2, 2005, 08:16 AM

well that's basically true.
The modtool I made is designed to work with the "Desktop" drivers.
Why? well because they were first. I'm reconsidering if that is the right way to go.
Maybe it is better we start using the mobility versions.

All the bugfixes and improvements are stored in most of the dll files the drivers use.
The inf files which get altered don't really influence performance much. (IMO)
And that's just what the tool does, it add's installation information.

The_Neon_Cowboy · Sep 2, 2005, 08:34 AM

the moblie, desktop, and IGP may use diffrent settings via the INF's
and programs but the drivers them self are the same files for all radeons
except FireGL wich uses and addtional opengl file and a different CP I belive.

thegave · Sep 3, 2005, 01:32 PM

Huh??? THe official mobility catalyst works fine for my MR9700 I downloaded the verifier and it downloaded the driver for me automatically..

the 5.8 mobile catalyst inf..

meep sorry about the huge pics

Aligokalppeker · Sep 3, 2005, 03:08 PM

Why there is no support for IGP mobility series?I don't understand........Modders have problems(OpenGL and etc...Patje thank for your tool but this is to you) and Omega releases his driver ages after.Deam it

.I know my card is not too good but new drivers support new games.

thegave · Sep 3, 2005, 03:34 PM

hmm. have you tried using the modtool to mod the mobility catalysts, or is there no way to download them without running the verifier tool?

Aligokalppeker · Sep 3, 2005, 03:49 PM

I modded normal cat.s.It works but there is an error when running OPENGL games.DirectX games runs fine.Modding mobility cats doesn't work because duplicate signs(some found in mobility cats and some added by modder) are added to inf file and setup gives error messages

Meaker · Sep 3, 2005, 10:18 PM

Oh they exist, as a beta tester I have access to mobility x600 drivers, but ATI's hands are really tied on this.

patje · Sep 5, 2005, 08:16 AM

@the Gave: your card is probably one of the supported cards.
Not all mobility radeon 9600/9700 are supported.
It depends what laptop manufacturer u have.
for instance, a M9700 in a Dell laptop will not be supported.

However if you would get ur hands on the mobility drivers, not the automatic card detector, those drivers will install.

so it's just a mather of finding the file, and have lost the link atm

thegave · Sep 5, 2005, 01:05 PM

oh wow lucky me. my laptop is a clevo clone.

Jnathus00 · Sep 5, 2005, 04:03 PM

My laptop is a Dell Inspiron 9100 with a Radeon Mobility 9800. Dell put out a driver around February this year, which is just before or after they stopped selling the 9100, so I figured that was the last one they'd make for it.

To my surprise, they posted a new driver in June. I'm not using that driver, but it's going to work for most of what you'd want the system to do.

I used the download from ATI that supports my card (but not officially) at http://www.ati.com/online/mobilecatalyst and I have the latest Catalyst 5.8 driver on my laptop. The one concession is that I have the Catalyst Control Center. It's not terrible, so I'll live with it.

So, Dell isn't leaving the gaming Inspiron 9100 (and the previous generation XPS) in the cold yet, but even if and when they do .. there is a current alternative.

highkick · Sep 14, 2005, 06:10 PM

If anyone has access to the Official Mobility drivers (not the downloader), perhaps you could send them, or the link, to Patje.....It would be interesting to see what information Patje could get from studying them...

Perhaps he could mod them and check for compatabiltiy, stability, and performance.

patje · Sep 15, 2005, 10:11 AM

Highkick,

the link was posted in the previous post. I had a look at them and haven't learned much new. I do think that if you have one of the supported cards, use these drivers and not the modtool. Cause i'm still a firm believer that ATI knows more than I do, thus it's still better to use their drivers.

Sep 1, 2005, 07:10 AM	#1
highkick DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 74 Rep Power: 0	ATI Mobility Drivers to NOT Offer Support for Older Cards Official Mobility Drivers will probably never offer support for ATI's older cards, such as the Mobility 9600Pro/9700, according to the ATI representive taking questions at the Quakecon AMD Zone special event. I should know, a thousand people heard me stand up and ask the question at the event, held in one of the convention halls at the Gaylord Texan Resort in Grapevine, Texas (suburb of Dallas/Fort Worth). We were told that when the x800 and x850 was released, laptop manufactures had to sign an agreement acknowledging the fact that ATI would be releasing updated mobility drivers for these cards. Unfortunetely, nothing was agreed upon for the older cards.... Laptop manufacturers don't want to have to deal with all the tech support calls from customers who have screwed up their video driver updates, according to the ATI Rep... Why cant laptop manufacturers deal with customers updating their drivers? Desktop folks have had the opportunity to update to the official ATI drivers forever..........I don't get it. Am I missing something here? I talked to the ATI Rep for a couple more minutes after the session, mentioning that with a $3000 USD gaming laptop, it's rediculous to be expected to go out and buy a new laptop, just to get official drivers that are new enough to support the newest games (obviously, no one is going to do this). At least with a desktop, if ATI were to no longer offer support for a desktop Video Card, one could just go out and spend a couple hundred dollars on a new card. I stressed that official support for older notebook cards, such as the ATI Mobility 9600Pro/9700, should be a requirement, since notebooks based on these cards didn't offer swappable video cards at the time. Basically we're stuck with a several thousand dollar investment, without any updated Windows Certified, "Official" drivers available to fix the gliches we have with newer games. Come on, my "Official" drivers are almost 1 1/2 years old, having been released 6 months before World of Warcraft was ever released.....................After I was done speaking to the rep, he said that people with the older mobility cards were basically out of luck, unless the laptop manufacturer decides to update their drivers(which we know almost never happens). I also took the time to recommend that ATI come out with a lower voltage/amperage version of one of their newer Mobility Cards, to allow for more performance, without increasing the power requirements of the card (relative to the Mobility 9600Pro). Currently, all the newer Moblitity Cards have higher power requirements, making them useless for 5-7 pound mobile laptops, such as my Centrino laptop and my son's AMD 3200+ gaming laptop. The use of these "newer" moblity cards is relegated to desktop replacement laptops.... With Die shrinks, more pipelines, programmable shaders, and the like as available features on the newer generation cards, I'm sure ATI can produce a higher performance, truly mobile version of their video card by either crippling the card somewhat, or by reducing the voltage/amperage required, without increasing the power requirements relative to the 9600 Mobility. Sorry for the bad news. Lets just hope that ATI is forward thinking and cares about something other than the desktop replacement market for us gamers "on the go". __________________ ATI 9600 Pro (Retail BBA)

Sep 1, 2005, 10:15 AM	#2
patje Former Mobility Modman Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Belgium / Antwerp Posts: 1,475 Rep Power: 66	Highkick, thanks for this information. A good read btw. I understand your point of view. Noone buying a 3000$ device should be left out with support. I agree on that. However from a company point of view, I can understand their decision. First of all, they are finally starting to support mobility cards. Fase 1 complete. I think indeed the 9700 and previous ATI mobility card owners are going to be the ones that will pay the price. A company would probably think "well in a few years (about 3) more than 50% will already be out of use. So why concentrate on that? On the other hand, OEM companies having to update all their drivers every time a manufacturer brings a new driver is utter crazyness. It's impossible for them to do. but a year and a half is way to long. It's bad news indeed, but there is light at the end of the tunnel for the newer cards... EDIT: It would be nice if one of our friendly official ATI visitors confirm this and sheds his toughts.... not? __________________

Sep 1, 2005, 12:07 PM	#3
The_Neon_Cowboy HardwareHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: U.S.A. Posts: 16,009 Rep Power: 92 System Specs	People are wanting more powerfull grahics more on par with desktops, so you have to give a litle to get a little. Drivers for older laptops aren't done do to legal agreements. The laptop MFG all the powers, keys and rights in that regard. You and everyone else who buys a laptop needs to complain to the MFG to get them to update thier drivers. Laptop MFG doesn't want to use the bandwith, or support the drivers in any way. So you laptop makers are left in limbo... What you can do is used mod tools and modded drivers __________________

Sep 2, 2005, 08:11 AM	Thread Starter #4
highkick DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 74 Rep Power: 0	Question....Is it better to mod the Official mobility drivers or is it better to mod the Official desktop drivers?? Although ATI does not officially support older mobility cards, i'm wondering if the drivers are basically written, and only require the older video card's identification to be inserted into the drivers for the cards to be recognized. Basically, I want the laptop to be stable, with power saving features working correctly, and games running smoothly.....No incompatabilities. (which is what everyone wants, I'm sure) __________________ ATI 9600 Pro (Retail BBA) Last edited by highkick; Sep 14, 2005 at 06:06 PM.

Sep 2, 2005, 08:16 AM	#5
patje Former Mobility Modman Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Belgium / Antwerp Posts: 1,475 Rep Power: 66	well that's basically true. The modtool I made is designed to work with the "Desktop" drivers. Why? well because they were first. I'm reconsidering if that is the right way to go. Maybe it is better we start using the mobility versions. All the bugfixes and improvements are stored in most of the dll files the drivers use. The inf files which get altered don't really influence performance much. (IMO) And that's just what the tool does, it add's installation information. __________________

Sep 2, 2005, 08:34 AM	#6
The_Neon_Cowboy HardwareHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: U.S.A. Posts: 16,009 Rep Power: 92 System Specs	the moblie, desktop, and IGP may use diffrent settings via the INF's and programs but the drivers them self are the same files for all radeons except FireGL wich uses and addtional opengl file and a different CP I belive. __________________

Sep 3, 2005, 01:32 PM	#7
thegave -=[DHzer0point Team]=- Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 96 Rep Power: 0	Huh??? THe official mobility catalyst works fine for my MR9700 I downloaded the verifier and it downloaded the driver for me automatically.. the 5.8 mobile catalyst inf.. meep sorry about the huge pics Last edited by thegave; Sep 3, 2005 at 02:39 PM.

Sep 3, 2005, 03:08 PM	#8
Aligokalppeker DriverHeaven Lover Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: TR Posts: 184 Rep Power: 0	Why there is no support for IGP mobility series?I don't understand........Modders have problems(OpenGL and etc...Patje thank for your tool but this is to you) and Omega releases his driver ages after.Deam it .I know my card is not too good but new drivers support new games.

Sep 3, 2005, 03:34 PM	#9
thegave -=[DHzer0point Team]=- Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 96 Rep Power: 0	hmm. have you tried using the modtool to mod the mobility catalysts, or is there no way to download them without running the verifier tool?

Sep 3, 2005, 03:49 PM	#10
Aligokalppeker DriverHeaven Lover Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: TR Posts: 184 Rep Power: 0	I modded normal cat.s.It works but there is an error when running OPENGL games.DirectX games runs fine.Modding mobility cats doesn't work because duplicate signs(some found in mobility cats and some added by modder) are added to inf file and setup gives error messages

Sep 3, 2005, 10:18 PM	#11
Meaker #1 INTEL MAINSTREAM Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 0 Rep Power: 0	Oh they exist, as a beta tester I have access to mobility x600 drivers, but ATI's hands are really tied on this. __________________ Home: Core 2 DUO @ 2.4ghz \| 2048mb GSKILL 5400 @ 450mhz 5-5-5-12 \| ASROCK P945 A2 based mobo \| ATI Radeon x1650pro \| 17" LCD widescreen \| Hiper Type R 480W PSU \| 250gb seagate HDD \| Uni: Core i7 920 C0 @ 3.8ghz HT on (1.325v) \| 6 Gigs Corsair XMS 3 1333DDR @ 1600DDR 8-8-8-20 1.5v \| Asus P6T-SE @ 200mhz BCLK \|2x Gigabyte HD 4770 Crossfire + Accelero S1s \| 21.6" widescreen LCD \| Sharkoon Rebel 7 + 600W Coolermaster silent PRO \| 2x320GB WD raid edition III Raid 0 \| Razor diamondback G3

Sep 5, 2005, 08:16 AM	#12
patje Former Mobility Modman Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Belgium / Antwerp Posts: 1,475 Rep Power: 66	@the Gave: your card is probably one of the supported cards. Not all mobility radeon 9600/9700 are supported. It depends what laptop manufacturer u have. for instance, a M9700 in a Dell laptop will not be supported. However if you would get ur hands on the mobility drivers, not the automatic card detector, those drivers will install. so it's just a mather of finding the file, and have lost the link atm __________________

Sep 5, 2005, 01:05 PM	#13
thegave -=[DHzer0point Team]=- Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 96 Rep Power: 0	oh wow lucky me. my laptop is a clevo clone.

Sep 5, 2005, 04:03 PM	#14
Jnathus00 DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1 Rep Power: 0	My laptop is a Dell Inspiron 9100 with a Radeon Mobility 9800. Dell put out a driver around February this year, which is just before or after they stopped selling the 9100, so I figured that was the last one they'd make for it. To my surprise, they posted a new driver in June. I'm not using that driver, but it's going to work for most of what you'd want the system to do. I used the download from ATI that supports my card (but not officially) at http://www.ati.com/online/mobilecatalyst and I have the latest Catalyst 5.8 driver on my laptop. The one concession is that I have the Catalyst Control Center. It's not terrible, so I'll live with it. So, Dell isn't leaving the gaming Inspiron 9100 (and the previous generation XPS) in the cold yet, but even if and when they do .. there is a current alternative.

Sep 14, 2005, 06:10 PM	Thread Starter #15
highkick DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 74 Rep Power: 0	If anyone has access to the Official Mobility drivers (not the downloader), perhaps you could send them, or the link, to Patje.....It would be interesting to see what information Patje could get from studying them... Perhaps he could mod them and check for compatabiltiy, stability, and performance. __________________ ATI 9600 Pro (Retail BBA)

Sep 15, 2005, 10:11 AM	#16
patje Former Mobility Modman Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Belgium / Antwerp Posts: 1,475 Rep Power: 66	Highkick, the link was posted in the previous post. I had a look at them and haven't learned much new. I do think that if you have one of the supported cards, use these drivers and not the modtool. Cause i'm still a firm believer that ATI knows more than I do, thus it's still better to use their drivers. __________________