[Chapell123]

Hey Guys,

I'm new and have an AMD 64 Athlon 3000+ on a winfast K8S 760MG motherboard.
200 gigs of hard and 1024mb of ram.
Girl friend is down south and rumour has it has bought me a BFG GeForce 6800GT (overclocked) video card, I was looking for a 6600GT capable of pluging into one of my PCI express slots. This one I understand fits into the AGP slot 8X. Should I tell her to hang on and look for a card that goes into the PCI slot. I'm at the DiabloII and Doom 3 player level.

She flies home to Toronto from Georgia in morning and would appreciate quick advice,

Paul

[pr0digal jenius]

check yer PMs

[Shadow Lady]

6800gt of course, at least for now the improvement going from AGP to PCI-X 16 is not very... welll is not seen yet

[OOAgent]

i know this must have been ask dozens of times but ive been searching the forums and really havent found a direct answer. im going to upgrade soon and want to know if pci-e does better overall than agp.

[Tipstaff]

It's not so much about which is better anymore. Theoretically PCI-E is better, but we haven't really reached the limits of AGP to see much of a boost between the 2. If you asked me this question last year I would have said buy an AGP system. Now, however, I have to say go PCI-E. All manufacturers have switched to producing more PCI-E cards than they were last year now that there are more motherboards/systems that have PCI-E on or in them. Add to that the prices of PCI-E cards are becoming very similar, and most future cards that come out will be PCI-E first should be a sign that this is where the industry is heading.. if it isn't here already.

Simple answer: PCI-E. AGP will slowly dry up. PCI-E is now the leading format. All future cards will be PCI-E first. You just have to look at Nvidias SLI format to see this trend.

Also you need to keep this in mind. Intel has released their new CPU packaging.. the LGA775 (or Socket 775). So far most of the boards that support that processor are PCI-E based. Taking that into consideration along with the above should be a good indication on which route you should go.

[OOAgent]

ok thx alot!

[Dyre Straits]

I've been very interested in PCI-Express for about a year now and hoping to get my own system. A lot of what I've read highlights the blazing fast bi-directional communication that is the basis of the new format.

Because of this, it would seem that just about any PCI-Express video card would outshine even the best 8X AGP cousin. BUT, I'm finding that's not so.

Just a brief research on Futuremark shows that my own slightly overclocked 9600 Pro outperforms the ATi X-700 on similar systems. In fact, I'm getting nearly 2000 points better than the best X-700 score posted to date.

So, what's really the benefit of PCI-Express? Or is there any at this time?


EDIT: A GREAT BIG OOPS on the 3DMark2K3 score difference!!!! I had just installed Omega's 5.1a drivers a couple of days ago and had not run 3DM2K3 in some time. On my very first run after installing the drivers and running my 9600 Pro at 486/317, I got a result of over 9000! points. To be exact, the score was: 9372!!! Only when I went to post this score at FutureMark did I realize that I hadn't updated to v.360 yet. I did so and my latest score is now: 3999. Just slightly off my highest reported score of 4030....NOT over 9000! (I think I now know how some people were posting scores of over 14000! )

Anyway, the X700, of course, is getting well over 7000 3DM2K3 points. That's quite a difference and would be a decent benefit over AGP 8X.

At this point, however, the cost of a new mobo and new CPU -- added to the cost of a PCI-E card, is just too much for me to consider.

I DID, however, want to set the record straight on this erroneous 3DM2K3 score I got. (I'd have loved to have posted it, though. LOL!)

[dj_stick]

there's no real benefit at this point in time, but when newer generation PEG cards come out, they'll take full advantage of the extra bandwidth the standard offers, and will outperform AGP cards.
right now there's no real difference

[CDsDontBurn]

like dj said, there really aren't any benefits of pci-e over agp. a p4 LGA775 3Ghz system w/1Gb of ram and an x700pro will perform about as well as a p4 478 3Ghz w/1Gb of ram and a 9800pro. The next generation of pci-e cards should start benefiting in performance as compared to todays cards.

Really, the only benefit of going pci-e is that you don't have to upgrade your video card the next time you upgrade your system .

[mkk]

Some card types currently running on PCI will be quicker to draw benefits from PCIe than graphics cards. But the only real factor today is that sooner or later every customer will have to move over to PCIe, only because the industry says so. Don't rush to do so but remember to factor it into your future spendings.

[redsolar]

The problem for now is - most high end PCI-E cards are more expensive than their AGP counterparts, which may put the decision scale one way or another, depending on your price sensitivity.

[CDsDontBurn]

Originally Posted by mkk

Some card types currently running on PCI will be quicker to draw benefits from PCIe than graphics cards. But the only real factor today is that sooner or later every customer will have to move over to PCIe, only because the industry says so. Don't rush to do so but remember to factor it into your future spendings.

So long as DDR1 MoBos are still available in about a year, i won't have any worries about upgrading my whole system all over again.

[OOAgent]

i have a very large price range, i can get just about anything within $1500 (as of this moment), but then goes my car saving, o well i still have 1 more year to save up...
so far i have planned a Athlon 64 3500+, 580watt PSU (look! http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProduc...163-018&depa=0 now is that a deal or what! ), FOXCONN NF4UK8AA-8EKRS mobo, and a 512mb card pci-e when they come out, im sure i wont have to upgrade my ram for a LONG time, yes i know i went a little overboard but ill be ready for unreal engine 3

[redsolar]

512MB PCI-E card? Mmm, I am not sure those are available, unless you are talking professional cards (not for gaming).

When U-engine 3 games come out I am sure there will be a newer better boy which would push 2x fps of your card, whatever you get. So don't think about unreleased games, think more today.

That's one fancy looking garbage-quality PSU, I would stay away, and go for a lower-wattage higher priced True PSU (Antec, Enermax, etc). Your components will thank you, trust me on that one.

[sc3000]

I would get a Abit Fatality AN8

[Judas]

.... graphics cards built with pure PCI-EX in mind will have a marginal advantage in the form of 3dmark 03.. (graphics intensive)... however, the way PCI-EX works is it reduces the load on various other things such as the CPU or the pci bus itself. I'm sure if you ran a benchmark more oriented around the entire computers hardware.. you'd see a more noticeable difference...

We still however have not even touched the limits of agp 8x..... i think just recently we surpassed the agp4x barrier with the 9800xt or the first x800 pro agp version....

it's always best to stay ahead of the wall if you can....

[agenthex]

Honestly, I would look at mainboards not primarily for PCI-E vs. AGP but rather in terms of other features. I know that some boards offer dual PCI-E slots, and if you wanted dual graphics cards, that would be your key focus; however, many of us would like other features (type of chip, dual LAN, FireWire, 6 channel sound, etc.) that some boards don't offer.

Personally, I would look more at the quality of the board manufacturer, the CPU I want to use, the chipset's features and quality of design, and lastly the presence of other integrated features as well as AGP vs. PCI-E.

But again... that's me.

[Tipstaff]

Originally Posted by sc3000

I would get a Abit Fatality AN8

I have to disagree with this. First, it's too expensive, and second, Abit gets an instant NO due to their track record, which includes a constant use of questionable capacitors. You pay the big money for that board because of the fact they "splurged" on the caps for it, the rest is all bells.

Stay away from the Foxconn board. They used questionable capacitors on it, and I have had problems with one of those boards already (which, btw, was 1 of 2 I got from them). My choice would be the Asus A8N-SLI Deluxe board. It may be expensive (far less than the Abit one though), but they use quality parts (caps and what not), and are very well designed. Not to mention they have far better support (RMA department), and a far better track record than both Fox and Abit does.

Don't go cheap on the PSU either. Sure you can get a 500 watt PSU for $25, but it will have a 60 day warranty.... and that's for a reason... they die just afterwards. Besides, when a company emulates a name like 'Powermax" by calling themselves "Powmax" you know somethings up. An Antec Truepower True550 would be my choice. Pair that with a decent case (my money is on Antecs new P180.. god damn nice case), and your rocking.

Graphics wise you have 2 options. If you want to grab something realitively cheap, but not cheap in performance then consider these 2:

ATI X700
Geforce 6600GT

The great thing with going with the 6600GT is the ability to use the SLI support.

Got the dough?

ATI X800XL or X850XT
Geforce 6800 GT or 6800 Ultra

I won't tell you which to buy as that, at least to me, is a personal choice. Again, though, the 2 Geforce options do give you the SLI support. At the moment SLI isn't a priority as the games and drivers need to be written to support it, but now that it's out you can bet it will be with the next generation of games.

Thus ends my thesis.. LOL

[Judas]

Threads merged... and Moved to a more suitable forum. (hey it works for Nvidia and Matrox or anyone else providing PCI-EX cards )

continue

[No_Style]

AGP or PCI-E? Get PCI-E since you know you'll be somewhat future proofing your system. You will also have a wider range of video card choices. Oh and it looks good in your sig.

As for performance, the potential is there like SATA over IDE.

[topbob]

another 5 years, you'll want a pci-e system, right now, i have a AGP x800 Pro thats only running on 4xagp, and it runs HL2, perfectly.
keep that in mind.

[Tipstaff]

Originally Posted by topbob

another 5 years, you'll want a pci-e system, right now, i have a AGP x800 Pro thats only running on 4xagp, and it runs HL2, perfectly.
keep that in mind.

But, if your in his shoes, and you are buying a new system, would you buy an AGP system that kills everything now (and won't be around in 2 years), and still have to buy a new PCIE system in 2-3 years cuz you can't upgrade your AGP one anymore? Or, go with the safer bet and buy a PCIE system so that you can upgrade it at some point? PCIE will be around far longer than AGP.. far far longer.

Either way you look at it AGP vs PCIE isn't the only issue. CPU is too. In Intels case with Socket 775 processors most boards are 99% PCIE based. For AMD 939 processors the case is a little different. You have so many different chipsets that support AGP and PCIE, so your decision gets a little tougher. That said, PCIE IS the current future format for graphics cards. Those will be the formats that new cards will be release to first. Also remember that they are not the only device that PCIE is for. Don't forget about the other 1x PCIE slots these boards come with for other devices that will start to come out. Like I said before, if you asked this quesiton last year you would have gotten the exact opposite response from me, but now that PCIE is here, and now that newer 775/939 boards are out with PCIE 16x/1x slots on them, that is the way I would go now.

Ultimately it's Dyres' decision. All I can say is wiegh all the pros and cons, the pricing, and what future upgrades you may see yourself needing or wanting. Take your time, don't be pressured by salesman or friends, and in the end you will make the right decision.

[topbob]

tipstaff is right, if you were to buy a new system today, i always say buy things so they have the ability to upgrade later, pci-e is the new bus that will be used, so i suggest going with it.

[OOAgent]

ive read all your replies and i do appreciate all your help. im not going for the best deals on everything, i know that quality>price but you should try to get bargains when you can. anyway with the harware ive chosen is all 5 star ratings. like the PSU for example: of course it has a cheap price and and iffy seller name like POWMAX but look at the reviews for them. they are all good. same with the mobo, im not trying to get the cheapest deals but i need a mobo with 4 dimm slots for my RAM (2x 512mb ans 2x 1gb, both pc3200) and thats a board that got all good reviews and the people that bought it seemed to have no problems with it.

[Drakon]

if u have the money for a new pci-e vid card, then go ahead and get a pci-e system. for myself, i stuck to agp, mainly because i couldn't afford switching over the pci-e at this point in time. later this year, i'll just get a x800xt or x800xt pe if the price is reasonable and this system should last me for at least 2 yrs...

[Tipstaff]

Almost the same situation here Drakon. Intel sent us a few test D915GAG (still have to laugh at that series number.. GAG) and D915GAV boards, and a couple 3.2Ghz CPUs right at the time I was upgrading, but there were no decent PCIE gaming cards available, and was going to be for at least 3-4 more months. Next best thing was what I purchased. Do I regret it? Sorta. Next time I upgrade my PC I'll have to start all over (hopefully in 2 years). Otherwise every damn thing I throw at it just chews through them, and spits'em out!

That's the beauty of working in this industry though. I can easily sell the PC to a customer.... after I've used and abused it that is.

[Crash Override]

Originally Posted by agenthex

Honestly, I would look at mainboards not primarily for PCI-E vs. AGP but rather in terms of other features. I know that some boards offer dual PCI-E slots, and if you wanted dual graphics cards, that would be your key focus; however, many of us would like other features (type of chip, dual LAN, FireWire, 6 channel sound, etc.) that some boards don't offer.

Personally, I would look more at the quality of the board manufacturer, the CPU I want to use, the chipset's features and quality of design, and lastly the presence of other integrated features as well as AGP vs. PCI-E.

But again... that's me.

The average PC user doesnt know their ass from a hole in the ground and well Newegg is a mainstream site now unfortunately. That means lots of uninformed unintelligent users.

For instance the first review I see has someone recommending removing the blade guard off of the fan of that PSU.

Thats a real smart move


The second review right below that which is a 3-star review has a guy saying that sometimes this PSU just doesnt have what it takes to start up properly.

He literally says it makes a different in the time to get the PC to boot depending on how many fans and stuff he has on it.

On a 580W quality PSU you shouldn't have any issues with having a few fans and lights on it. In fact almost nothing like that should change a bootup time. If thats happening then look out. That thing is probably a fire hazard waiting to happen.

Not to mention POW quite literally describes the sound that a PSU makes when they die on you.

I should know. I had 2 Antecs go up literally within a month so no Antec will ever be in one of my systems again. Powmax is much lower quality than Antec by default so that should tell you something

The tried and true brands for me have been RAIDMAX, PC Power & Cooling, ThermalTake.

However the PC P&C supplies are the best of the lot. Some of the most stable PSU's I have ever seen and very well made.

[OOAgent]

oh one last question: a 512mb card(when they come out of course) with a 3500+ wouldnt be bottlenecking my computer would it?

[doxology83]

in my opinion you should use the 6800 because if you were going to buy the card yourself you would have been out 200 bucks, where a new motherboard wont put you out that much money, plus your getting a better video card. You cant beat that.

[gibbon565]

Originally Posted by Shadow Lady

6800gt of course, at least for now the improvement going from AGP to PCI-X 16 is not very... welll is not seen yet

Agreed.