Skipping a few generations

Little_T · Oct 15, 2005, 07:18 PM

I'm looking to upgrade my comp (once again), this time I would want to be able to use it more than a year after the purcase. My current system is in my sig. (for people with good eye sight). Basically looking for a new processor and gfx-card (and therefor new mb).

Since I work quite a lot with PS and other digital gfx applications I was considering the Athlon 64 X2 4200+ or 4400+. The later has 1024kb cache the former 512kb, is this a big difference, or rather is it worth the 60€ (something like $65 US) the retailer asks for the 4400+? What kind of (air)cooling would be best? Had something like Zalman 9500 or Zalman 7700-cu in mind.

For gfx, I would want to go all the way and buy a X1800XT 512MB (if the retailer has any in stock that is). Will the processor be a bottleneck or the other way around? If so whould i settle for X850XT PE?

For the motherboard I was thinking something with X2 support (obviously) and one 16x PCI-E from a good manufacturer (e.g. Asus, Epox, MSI etc.) And in some preliminary searches I found these three:
Asus A8N-E 100.90€
Epox EP-9NPA+ Ultra 112.90€
MSI K8N Neo4 Platinum 131.90€

All are nForce 4 chipsets, although I would like to have a Radeon Xpress (Radeon + Radeon probably works better than nForce + Radeon) chipset (no SLI or CrossFire needed).

One more question; are there any MB:s out there with DDR2 support yet? Do I need it (benefits vs. DDR)?

H3X4D3C1M4L · Oct 15, 2005, 08:06 PM

For an Athlon 64 you will not get DDR2 just yet.

And as for if its worth it or not for the extra 512 kb of cache per core, I say no. I've also heard the 3800+ X2's to be quite overclocking friendly so if you want an X1800XT then it might help to save the cash then overclock the X2.

Also, don't be afraid to look into the nVidia 7800GTX series cards, they do well in terms of graphics performance and being a heavy ATI fan even I can't deny the fact that nVidia has a killer card in the 7800GTX's

As for bottlenecking with a card like an X1800, any proc these days (stock clocked) would be a bottleneck.

And finally, don't worry too much about Radeon + ATI chipset...nForce 4 is a solid and well established A64 chipset and works fine with ATI cards/

Hope that clears up some issues

Little_T · Oct 15, 2005, 08:40 PM

I generally don't overclock (as any warranty goes out the window with it), but the googled results for 3800+ overclocking where impressive, so I'll have to seriously consider that possibilaty. Is aircooling still an option with an X2 3800+ @ 4400+?

Have to admit that I'm a huge ATI fan also, probably why I would go with a high end ATI card instead of nVidia. In the X1800XT:s defense I would like to say that it's currently the "king of the hill" (I've compared like 15 different articles with benchmarks). A few years back I bought the 9700 Pro, the leading gfx-card back then.
I always found that the smaller cooling solutions from ATI (didn't take the extra PCI-slot) was an advantage, but nowadays all cards take up the PCI-slot for cooling. It would seem that future games would benefit from the 512MB memory of the X1800XT and as stated, I'm a huge ATI fan, so I'll probably go with it, if I can afford it...

H3X4D3C1M4L · Oct 15, 2005, 08:52 PM

Air is indeed a strong possibility while maintaining relative silence with one of those, stock core voltage is 1.35 volts, and to get to 4400+ you won't need much more than 1.45 which is still really low and won't make a hell of al ot of heat.

Little_T · Oct 24, 2005, 02:25 PM

OK, so right now I'm between the rock and a har case. Basically have the new setup clear, but the most central part is still undecided. I'm going to go with the Athlon 64 X2 4400+ and the X1800XT 512MB. My retailer said that they we're unsure of the availability of the Epox EP-9NPA+ Ultra, and suggested the Abit AT8 CrossFire board instead. Should I get it instead? I wasn't really planning on buying a mobo with a (probably) useless pci-e port. However my retailer justified this choise by mentioning the upcoming X2-processor gaming support, that should utilize the dual-core prosessor in games. Anyone know anything abou this? If I can get signifaicantly more performance from the Xpress200 mobo, I think I'm gonna go with it, otherwise I'll buy the nF4.

Vikingod · Oct 24, 2005, 02:46 PM

X2 gaming support, maybe he's talking about Vista or something. Game developers have been talking about support dual cores, just like they have about support 64bit, its all talk as of yet. The next windows OS is promising support for Dual Cores, so we might see it then, who knows.

Little_T · Oct 24, 2005, 05:17 PM

So should I go with the Epox since I don't see myself buying another XFire card (way too expensive), at least before AMD standardizes the M2 (940) socket -> new mobo again.

Oct 15, 2005, 07:18 PM	#1
Little_T DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Finland Posts: 30 Rep Power: 0	Skipping a few generations I'm looking to upgrade my comp (once again), this time I would want to be able to use it more than a year after the purcase. My current system is in my sig. (for people with good eye sight). Basically looking for a new processor and gfx-card (and therefor new mb). Since I work quite a lot with PS and other digital gfx applications I was considering the Athlon 64 X2 4200+ or 4400+. The later has 1024kb cache the former 512kb, is this a big difference, or rather is it worth the 60€ (something like $65 US) the retailer asks for the 4400+? What kind of (air)cooling would be best? Had something like Zalman 9500 or Zalman 7700-cu in mind. For gfx, I would want to go all the way and buy a X1800XT 512MB (if the retailer has any in stock that is). Will the processor be a bottleneck or the other way around? If so whould i settle for X850XT PE? For the motherboard I was thinking something with X2 support (obviously) and one 16x PCI-E from a good manufacturer (e.g. Asus, Epox, MSI etc.) And in some preliminary searches I found these three: Asus A8N-E 100.90€ Epox EP-9NPA+ Ultra 112.90€ MSI K8N Neo4 Platinum 131.90€ All are nForce 4 chipsets, although I would like to have a Radeon Xpress (Radeon + Radeon probably works better than nForce + Radeon) chipset (no SLI or CrossFire needed). One more question; are there any MB:s out there with DDR2 support yet? Do I need it (benefits vs. DDR)? __________________ "Those who think they know-it-all are very annoying to those of us who do."

Oct 15, 2005, 08:40 PM	Thread Starter #3
Little_T DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Finland Posts: 30 Rep Power: 0	I generally don't overclock (as any warranty goes out the window with it), but the googled results for 3800+ overclocking where impressive, so I'll have to seriously consider that possibilaty. Is aircooling still an option with an X2 3800+ @ 4400+? Have to admit that I'm a huge ATI fan also, probably why I would go with a high end ATI card instead of nVidia. In the X1800XT:s defense I would like to say that it's currently the "king of the hill" (I've compared like 15 different articles with benchmarks). A few years back I bought the 9700 Pro, the leading gfx-card back then. I always found that the smaller cooling solutions from ATI (didn't take the extra PCI-slot) was an advantage, but nowadays all cards take up the PCI-slot for cooling. It would seem that future games would benefit from the 512MB memory of the X1800XT and as stated, I'm a huge ATI fan, so I'll probably go with it, if I can afford it... __________________ "Those who think they know-it-all are very annoying to those of us who do."

Oct 24, 2005, 02:25 PM	Thread Starter #5
Little_T DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Finland Posts: 30 Rep Power: 0	OK, so right now I'm between the rock and a har case. Basically have the new setup clear, but the most central part is still undecided. I'm going to go with the Athlon 64 X2 4400+ and the X1800XT 512MB. My retailer said that they we're unsure of the availability of the Epox EP-9NPA+ Ultra, and suggested the Abit AT8 CrossFire board instead. Should I get it instead? I wasn't really planning on buying a mobo with a (probably) useless pci-e port. However my retailer justified this choise by mentioning the upcoming X2-processor gaming support, that should utilize the dual-core prosessor in games. Anyone know anything abou this? If I can get signifaicantly more performance from the Xpress200 mobo, I think I'm gonna go with it, otherwise I'll buy the nF4. __________________ "Those who think they know-it-all are very annoying to those of us who do."

Oct 24, 2005, 05:17 PM	Thread Starter #7
Little_T DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Finland Posts: 30 Rep Power: 0	So should I go with the Epox since I don't see myself buying another XFire card (way too expensive), at least before AMD standardizes the M2 (940) socket -> new mobo again. __________________ "Those who think they know-it-all are very annoying to those of us who do."

Oct 15, 2005, 08:06 PM	#2
H3X4D3C1M4L DriverHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 6,794 Rep Power: 0	For an Athlon 64 you will not get DDR2 just yet. And as for if its worth it or not for the extra 512 kb of cache per core, I say no. I've also heard the 3800+ X2's to be quite overclocking friendly so if you want an X1800XT then it might help to save the cash then overclock the X2. Also, don't be afraid to look into the nVidia 7800GTX series cards, they do well in terms of graphics performance and being a heavy ATI fan even I can't deny the fact that nVidia has a killer card in the 7800GTX's As for bottlenecking with a card like an X1800, any proc these days (stock clocked) would be a bottleneck. And finally, don't worry too much about Radeon + ATI chipset...nForce 4 is a solid and well established A64 chipset and works fine with ATI cards/ Hope that clears up some issues

Oct 15, 2005, 08:52 PM	#4
H3X4D3C1M4L DriverHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 6,794 Rep Power: 0	Air is indeed a strong possibility while maintaining relative silence with one of those, stock core voltage is 1.35 volts, and to get to 4400+ you won't need much more than 1.45 which is still really low and won't make a hell of al ot of heat.

Oct 24, 2005, 02:46 PM	#6
Vikingod Int'l Fish Liaison Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: By the light of lamp I sit and type... Posts: 16,197 Rep Power: 112 System Specs	X2 gaming support, maybe he's talking about Vista or something. Game developers have been talking about support dual cores, just like they have about support 64bit, its all talk as of yet. The next windows OS is promising support for Dual Cores, so we might see it then, who knows.