[BiGBrOwNPimpsta]

well there's a lot of cheaper HDMI upconverting DVD players on the market, its a good benefit to get your DVDS up slightly upgraded, as it runs on 1080i or 720p opposed to 480p. But I have an older sony HDTV without HDMI, are most upconverting DVD players able to upconvert without running on HDMI. Or are there any at all?

I hope I get a yes...

[Necrosis]

DV-I should upconvert as well.

[Geminiwave]

component shouldn't be a problem for upconverting.....

[Tipstaff]

Originally Posted by Geminiwave

component shouldn't be a problem for upconverting.....

However, not all upconverting DVD players will do so to component. In my case I have the Pioneer DV-490V-K, and it only supports upconverting via HDMI. If I remember correctly there is a hack to get it working, but truthfully, it's not really worth it. The reason is that upconverting via component has a drawback: it's an analog connection. Getting the image from the DVD to the TV would cause the image to go through at least 2 conversion processes: the image will go from the DVD (digital), and then to and through component (analog). Then, depending on your TV, it could be digitally converted again. You may be disappointed in the final image.

[Mousey]

lol why don't we just leave HD-DVD and HD-DVD players to the manufacturers who know what their doing ;p

[BiGBrOwNPimpsta]

Originally Posted by Tipstaff

However, not all upconverting DVD players will do so to component. In my case I have the Pioneer DV-490V-K, and it only supports upconverting via HDMI. If I remember correctly there is a hack to get it working, but truthfully, it's not really worth it. The reason is that upconverting via component has a drawback: it's an analog connection. Getting the image from the DVD to the TV would cause the image to go through at least 2 conversion processes: the image will go from the DVD (digital), and then to and through component (analog). Then, depending on your TV, it could be digitally converted again. You may be disappointed in the final image.

interesting... but im eager to try it. any good sites where i could find more knowledge about it?

[Geminiwave]

probably vcdhelp.com

thats where i get all my region and divx hacks for DVD players. should be something in there.

[Pluvious]

You should check out AVS forums for that answer. I would highly recommend the OPPO HD970 player which will upconvert with component with a simple hack.

Main forum: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/

Thread about the 970: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...=1#post9892557

that link goes to page 142, top post is all about your question and there are many answers. These guys are TWEAK heads thru and thru.

[Tipstaff]

Originally Posted by Pluvious

You should check out AVS forums for that answer. I would highly recommend the OPPO HD970 player which will upconvert with component with a simple hack.

Main forum: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/

Thread about the 970: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...=1#post9892557

that link goes to page 142, top post is all about your question and there are many answers. These guys are TWEAK heads thru and thru.

LOL.. that was the site I was trying to find, actually. The other one I remember from a while back was HKFlix. They have THIS page about upconverting players. In a month or so I'm going to be giving my parents the DV-490, and grabbing myself the Pioneer DV-70AVi Elite.. when I can afford it that is.

[Lowfat]

why not just get a HDMI-DVI cable? They are like $5 @ firefold.com

[Tipstaff]

Originally Posted by Lowfat

why not just get a HDMI-DVI cable? They are like $5 @ firefold.com

As long as your HDTV has a DVI input, your set. Otherwise you are still up shizt creek.

[DudeBoyz]

Are there many visual benefits in upconverting, or is it mainly done to accommodate the higher resolution HD modes out there? Is it preferrable to playing the disk in its native resolution?

[Pluvious]

There is a huge visual benefit from upcoverting DVD players dude. Your whole DVD collection will be very close to 1080P quality. With my Oppo model I am able to switch through 480i 480p 720p and 1080i and each step makes the picture look so much cleaner its not even funny. Very very close to true HD. Makes the progressive players look like crap. Get a quality one, and you'll be amazed.

[DudeBoyz]

Originally Posted by Pluvious

There is a huge visual benefit from upcoverting DVD players dude. Your whole DVD collection will be very close to 1080P quality. With my Oppo model I am able to switch through 480i 480p 720p and 1080i and each step makes the picture look so much cleaner its not even funny. Very very close to true HD. Makes the progressive players look like crap. Get a quality one, and you'll be amazed.

Cool - thanks.

It sounds like the key is getting the highest quality unit you can get in terms of upconverting hardware. The info I have read is saying that there are some upconverter setups built into some units that just suck.

I don't intend on getting an HDTV anytime soon, so I'm not that worried about it, but it is cool to see the market progress and learn new stuff.

Enjoy!

[Judas]

i'm impressed with ATI's Avivo tech combined with vista's Media Center (when it correctly setup)... the image quality is amazing. On a big 40" samsung lcd, the difference is so extremely huge. And doing the same thing on my own machine with the dell, upconverting to 2560x1600, is just that much more massive.

Problem is, that while upconverting, it'll never look as good as true HD.... but it's as close as we'll probably ever get.

(it's no different then taking a 720x480 image and just blowing it up, it won't look good at all, but doing a thorough cleanup of the image while doing it will make it look better, that's the difference between taking standard dvd playback (blowing it up only)... to upconverting (blowing it up, cleaning it up, resampling to suite)....

[DudeBoyz]

Like taking a 640x480 graphic and scaling / stretching it to 1600x1200 or 1920x1200 to fit the screen you mean?

The DVD scaling is important because of the digital nature of HDTV, right?

With analog TV it would be better to watch in its native 720x480 right?

[Geminiwave]

well since you can't upscale on an analog tv, it wouldnt matter.

and its not like stretching. its more than that. It actually does quite a bit of video processing including anti-aliasing I believe so that it doesnt look jaggy.

[DudeBoyz]

Okay. Thanks.

I guess I'm kinda glad I'm not having to worry about it.

My 32" Analog TV is a Toshiba 32A33 and I'm very, very pleased with it. I hope it lasts me at least another decade.

[Pluvious]

regarding scaling:

"
Q: Why should I buy the OPPO DV-970HD player when my HD display has an internal scaler?
A: That's because, in general, the scaler in a high-performance up-converting DVD player, such as the DV-970HD, is more specialized in de-interlacing and scaling DVD signals than a typical HD display's scaler, leading to better picture quality. The process of converting a standard-definition DVD signal to the native resolution of your HD display may cause a host of video artifacts if not performed properly. These flaws will be especially noticeable on large and high-resolution screens. Quality de-interlacing and scaling are the key components to stable, artifact-free movie watching, and frequently the components built into the display (and into many competing DVD players) to perform these tasks are not up to the challenge. In most cases the scaler built into the DV-970HD is more suitable for up-converting DVD video signal to high definition video signal, because:

• The de-interlacing and scaling are performed at the point closest to the video source, thus avoiding video artifacts that can be introduced when analog video signal travels from the DVD player to the TV display. Once unconverted to HD signal, the video signal is carried to the TV in pure digital format via HDMI output, and is no longer susceptible to analog noise.
• The de-interlacer and scaler have a direct digital hookup with the DVD reader, so that it can get the flags and additional information encoded in the DVD disc directly and performs the up-conversion accordingly. Doing up-converting outside of the DVD player may lose this advantage.

On the other hand, for HD displays that have high-quality internal de-interlacing and scaling circuitry, and for external video signal processors found in high-end home theater systems, the OPPO DV-970HD is an excellent universal transport. Its HDMI output supports 480i/576i resolution, which is the native video format as encoded on the DVD discs. By using the 480i/576i resolution output over HDMI, digital video and audio signals stay in the digital domain all the way from the disc to the display, without going through unnecessary digital-to-analog and analog-to-digital conversions."

edit: Source: http://www.oppodigital.com/dv970hd/dv970hd_info.html

[DudeBoyz]

Good post - thanks.

[Veridian3]

Originally Posted by Pluvious

Your whole DVD collection will be very close to 1080P quality.

That is simply not true, having tested various methods of increasing DVD quality over the past week i can say there are still huge IQ benefits from using 1080 HD-DVD over upscaled normal DVD.

I agree that DVD's can look great, Star Wars Episode 3 for example gets a whole new lease of life (due to the exceptional quality of the disc/master) when upscaled however there is a huge gap in detail between it (and other DVD's) when compared to HD-DVD running in native 1080.

Almost every aspect of scenes is much clearer on HD-DVD (and blu-ray) from smoke/steam to Skin/hair to Sky/rock the detail levels on true HD content are so much higher. I have yet to sit down in front of a 1080 HD disc and not be impressed by the quality and find huge aspects of the images which are just not possible on DVD, upscaled or not. (On any new high budget movie the differences are even more striking).

[DudeBoyz]

So why not just view at the stock 720x480 centered in the middle of the screen?

[Pluvious]

Originally Posted by Veridian3

That is simply not true, having tested various methods of increasing DVD quality over the past week i can say there are still huge IQ benefits from using 1080 HD-DVD over upscaled normal DVD.

I agree that DVD's can look great, Star Wars Episode 3 for example gets a whole new lease of life (due to the exceptional quality of the disc/master) when upscaled however there is a huge gap in detail between it (and other DVD's) when compared to HD-DVD running in native 1080.

Almost every aspect of scenes is much clearer on HD-DVD (and blu-ray) from smoke/steam to Skin/hair to Sky/rock the detail levels on true HD content are so much higher. I have yet to sit down in front of a 1080 HD disc and not be impressed by the quality and find huge aspects of the images which are just not possible on DVD, upscaled or not. (On any new high budget movie the differences are even more striking).

True that, real HD is hands down better.. but for most, I'm saying that its pretty damn nice to be able to upscale our old collections of DVD and not have to rebuy all our favorites again.. its a great method for us cheapsakes who can't see themselves spending $25 on movies that cost $5-$15 on normal DVD's. Let alone the price of the HD players. I've been burned before with Laser Disc and don't plan on 'collecting' movies all over again. DVD's are fine by me for now.

How long will it take HD content to match the selection of standard DVD's?.. I bet at least 5 years, and even then, some movies won't be remastered.

[Vampyromaniac]

Originally Posted by DudeBoyz

So why not just view at the stock 720x480 centered in the middle of the screen?

You mean unscaled, like this?



That's an example for a 720p TV... a 1080 dislpay would have even more wasted space.


And Veridian is right, there is no way you can make a DVD look close to the quality of HD.

[DudeBoyz]

Originally Posted by Vampyromaniac

You mean unscaled, like this?



That's an example for a 720p TV... a 1080 dislpay would have even more wasted space.


And Veridian is right, there is no way you can make a DVD look close to the quality of HD.

So that would be totally cool if I could choose which I wanted. To have it scaled and upconverted or watch it in its native 720x480 size.

1080p interpolated or 480p native. Nice.

[Vampyromaniac]

I guess, if that's what you wanted... but it would turn a 1080p 60-inch display into a 27?-inch. lol

[DudeBoyz]

Originally Posted by Vampyromaniac

I guess, if that's what you wanted... but it would turn a 1080p 60-inch display into a 27?-inch. lol

I'm just sayin' - it's nice to have the option.

A DVD is made at 720x480, maybe some folks want to watch it in its native resolution. No harm, no foul.

[Pluvious]

um.. some of upscaled moves ARE going full screen for me. In 1080i. Don't discredit what I said about it looking good either because it is really surprising what can be done.. I didn't think it would look much better either since there's not much data to work with. Turns out all that 'magic' to upscale does a good job when you have a quality unit. (btw: the 2nd best model after Oppo is a $3,500 one so I'm not referring to a cheap $59 'upcoverting dvd' player. )

[Tipstaff]

Here's a interesting glitch that I've run into a couple times.

My Panasonic HDTV (which is an HDTV CRT that supports 480i/p and 1080i only), uses different modes for scaling the image: Zoom, Full, Justified, and 4:3. The only catch is that if you run 1080i sources into the TV using HDMI there is only one option: Full. The TV will automatically scale the image to the format of the incoming media, and there is no way to override it. As for the the Pioneer DV-490, it allows you to pick what your TV format is (4:3 full, 4:3 letterbox, 16:9 wide), as well as your HD resolution: 720x480 i/p, 1280x720i, and 1920x1080i. So, in my case, I set the TV format to 16:9 (which is native for this TV), and the rez to 1920x1080i, and all should be set.. right?? Wrong.

Using the Pioneer DV-490 some films don't properly scale when upconverted to 1080i (although I can't confirm it's the player fault though, because I don't have any other upconverting players to see if it's the TVs fault). I have one film here, Six Days Seven Nights (don't ask), which is a widescreen 2.35:1 Animorphic movie, and the damn thing automatically scales to 4:3 letterbox, but not really 4:3. It's more like 16x9 in a 4:3 window. It doesn't do this with all my movies, only some, which makes getting the right settings down a pain. I have all sorts of formats: 1.85:1, 2.35:1 (plus the variations such as 2.39:1, 2.40:1, and so forth), 4:3 letterbox and full, you name it. 4:3 works as it should (although I wish it would scale to the full width of the TV), and the rest will scale to the full size of the screen, but then there are the ones that scale to that stupid 4:3 letterbox. Pisses me off some times. If I change the player to 480p I can switch between Zoom, Full (the manual says that if you run 16:9 media, that being 2.35:1, to run in Full mode), and 4:3.

In any case I pretty much have it set to 480p all the time now as I'm not the only one that uses that TV, but I seem to be the only technically inclined person that knows how to change it, and will change it when needed. It doesn't seem to bother anyone else here that it's running in 480p vs 1080i, which is fine, but I've noticed it, and it bothers me. So, hopefully I have better luck with the Pioneer DV-70AVi Elite.

[DudeBoyz]

Still sounds like they need some time to work out all the HDTV stuff. 480p sounds like a smart move for now given the unpredictability.