[merry]

I'm looking for an English version to Lorelei... I could just find the German original - I DON'T speak German.

Before you ask, I already tried the Google translator:

To Bacharach at the Rheine
wohnt` a Zauberin;
those was so beautiful and purifies
and tore much heart.

Anyone... Help!

[ToshiroOC]

Can you post the original lyrics?

EDIT:

I got bored and decided to try and translate, even though I'm not sure I have the right "Lorelei", seeing how that little snippet appears to be from a different Lorelei...

Consolidated all three of my posts into this:

"Die Lorelei" 1823

Ich weiß nicht, was soll es bedeuten,
daß ich so traurig bin;
ein Märchen aus alten Zeiten,
das kommt mir nicht aus dem Sinn.

Die Luft ist kühl und es dunkelt,
und ruhig fließt der Rhein;
der Gipfel des Berges funkelt
im Abendsonnenschein.

Die schönste Jungfrau sitzet
dort oben wunderbar,
ihr goldnes Geschmeide blitzet,
sie kämmt ihr goldenes Haar.

Sie kämmt es mit goldenem Kamme,
und singt ein Lied dabei;
das hat eine wundersame,
gewaltige Melodei.

Den Schiffer im kleinen Schiffe
ergreift es mit wildem Weh;
er schaut nicht die Felsenriffe,
er schaut nur hinauf in die Höh.

Ich glaube, die Wellen verschlingen
am Ende Schiffer und Kahn;
und das hat mit ihrem Singen
die Lorelei getan.


I'll try and translate it now.

Post Two:

I don't know what it should mean,
that I am so sad;
A fairy tale from older times
it does not come from my sanity.

The air is cool and it darkens,
and calmly the Rhein flows;
the summit of the mountain sparkles
in the evening sunshine.

The most beautiful virgin sat
wonderfully up on there,
her golden locks flashing
she combs her golden hair.

She combs it with golden combs,
and sing a song with it.
that has a wondrous,
great Melody.

The captain in small ships
seizes with wild pain
he does not watch the rocky reefs
he looks only above.

I believe the waves devoured,
the captain and the boat
and that is what she with her singing
the Lorelei has done.

Post Three:

Translation notes:

First, I don't know German that well, so I had to guess with some of this. Any guesses I wasn't very sure about I'm noting here.

das kommt mir nicht aus dem Sinn.
it does not come from my sanity.

More literally, it should say:
That comes to me not from "dem Sinn". Dem Sinn translates as either sense or sanity - another word with it is "Unsinn", madness or insanity. This part does not translate well.

The most beautiful virgin sat
wonderfully up on there,
Die schönste Jungfrau sitzet
dort oben wunderbar,

dort oben wunderbar translates more literally as there above wonderfully, but the sense of the phrase appears to mean that she is sitting in a high-up place, "up there" in an eloquent sense.


her golden locks flashing
ihr goldnes Geschmeide blitzet,
I don't know what Geschmeide are, but it appears to be a noun form of the verb "scheiden", or separating, so I figured that in this context "locks" would fit the sense of the poem.

She combs it with golden combs,
Sie kämmt es mit goldenem Kamme,
I could not find a translation for Kamme, just the same as with Geschmeide, but from the verb "kämmt" used in the sentence (he/she/it combs) and the similarity, I concluded that it was a noun form of "kämmt" and meant comb.

and sing a song with it.
und singt ein Lied dabei;
Dabei means more literally thereby, or over-there-by-it.

great Melody.
gewaltige Melodei.
gewaltige trasnlated as "enormous", but the word appears to be related to the German for "world", so I assumed that the word meant more of a "world-encompassing" sort of connotation rather than a physically-large connotation such as enormous has... and used great.

The captain in small ships
Den Schiffer im kleinen Schiffe
The "Schiffer" is literally the person using the boat, not necesarily a captain.


he does not watch the rocky reefs
he looks only above.
er schaut nicht die Felsenriffe,
er schaut nur hinauf in die Höh.
"schauen" is to look (at/on). The word Höh I could also not find a translation for, but it appears to either be a typo or a poetic shortening of Höch, "highly". I took it to mean that the Schiffer was looking up at the Lorelei, and so changed it from " looks only up into the high." to "looks only above" to keep closer to what I felt was the spirit of the poem.

the captain and the boat
am Ende Schiffer und Kahn;
"The waves devoured the captain and his boat in the end" would be a good translation for the prose, but it doesn't fit with the line-by-line structure of the poem.


and that is what she with her singing
the Lorelei has done.
und das hat mit ihrem Singen
die Lorelei getan.

The English was contorted to fit with the line structure of the German. The German would, word for word, mean this:
and that has with her singing
the Lorelei done.

I'll just leave it at this... and wait for some of my translation to be helpfully proved wrong by a resident German

[Asuka]

That's Lorelei's song you have there, ToshiroOC... but it looks like our linguistically challenged friend () wants another part of the Lorelei saga.
merry, if you could post what you want translated (or give me a link), then I can translate it.

[ToshiroOC]

Oh well, good practice, at least. Did I get it right?

[Asuka]

Originally posted by ToshiroOC
Can you post the original lyrics?

EDIT:

I got bored and decided to try and translate, even though I'm not sure I have the right "Lorelei", seeing how that little snippet appears to be from a different Lorelei...

Consolidated all three of my posts into this:

"Die Lorelei" 1823

Take note of the year of writing! While German has changed nowhere near as much as Old English -> current English (until when was Old English used anyway?), there were a few changes, so there are a few old words which are uncommon or not used at all nowadays anymore, and a few old formulastions.

Ich weiß nicht, was soll es bedeuten,
daß ich so traurig bin;
ein Märchen aus alten Zeiten,

it's "uralten" in the original ("uralt" = "ancient")

das kommt mir nicht aus dem Sinn.

Today it's "Das geht mir nicht aus dem Sinn."

I don't know what it should mean,
that I am so sad;
A fairy tale from older times

"ancient" instead of "older" here (see above).
Besides, "alt" would mean only "old" and not "older".
It goes like this: alt, älter, am ältesten -> old, older, oldest

it does not come from my sanity.

Now this is extremely wrong
"Das geht mir nicht aus dem Sinn." is a German saying which means "I can't get it out of my head."

Die Luft ist kühl und es dunkelt,

"es dunkelt" is a very old way to say that it's getting dark - it's not used anymore since a long time already. Today you would say, "es wird dunkel".

und ruhig fließt der Rhein;
der Gipfel des Berges funkelt
im Abendsonnenschein.

The air is cool and it darkens,
and calmly the Rhein flows;
the summit of the mountain sparkles
in the evening sunshine.

No errors here

Die schönste Jungfrau sitzet
dort oben wunderbar,
ihr goldnes Geschmeide blitzet,
sie kämmt ihr goldenes Haar.

The most beautiful virgin sat
wonderfully up on there,
her golden locks flashing
she combs her golden hair.

Ok, except that "Geschmeide" is a very old and uncommon word for "Schmuck" (jewelry).

Sie kämmt es mit goldenem Kamme,

Very old formulation. Today you would say, "Sie kämmt es mit einem goldenen Kamm." From many words, the end-'e' was dropped (also concerns other occurences in this song, e.g. "Schiffe" further down) Nowadays, the end-'e' is reserved for the plural.

und singt ein Lied dabei;
das hat eine wundersame,
gewaltige Melodei.

She combs it with golden combs,

... with a golden comb - it's only one.

and sing a song with it.
that has a wondrous,
great Melody.

I'd rather say "enormous" than "great" here (but "great" is not totally off).

Den Schiffer im kleinen Schiffe

No one would say "Schiffer" anymore. You would either use a general "Seeman" or "Matrtose" (both meaning "sailor"), or you would denominate them according to their rank, e.g. "Kapitän" (captain) if it's the person with the highest rank on the ship. (There are still "Admiral" and "General", like in English, but they are generally not on a ship, but ashore)

ergreift es mit wildem Weh;
er schaut nicht die Felsenriffe,
er schaut nur hinauf in die Höh.

The captain in small ships

The captain in the small ship

seizes with wild pain

No, that's absolutely not what's meant here What is meant is some other form of "Weh" (very old word for "Schmerz" - pain, not used anymore except in sayings or combined words like "Heimweh" - homesickness). What is meant is most probably "Heimweh", so you would say now "... ergreift ein großes Heimweh" - "has a profound feeling of homesickness".

he does not watch the rocky reefs
he looks only above.

Only "reef" would be totally enough here.

Ich glaube, die Wellen verschlingen
am Ende Schiffer und Kahn;
und das hat mit ihrem Singen
die Lorelei getan.

I believe the waves devoured,
the captain and the boat
and that is what she with her singing
the Lorelei has done.

The "she" in the third line is pretty much superfluent here.

Translation notes:

First, I don't know German that well, so I had to guess with some of this. Any guesses I wasn't very sure about I'm noting here.

das kommt mir nicht aus dem Sinn.
it does not come from my sanity.

More literally, it should say:
That comes to me not from "dem Sinn". Dem Sinn translates as either sense or sanity - another word with it is "Unsinn", madness or insanity. This part does not translate well.

As I said, it's a German saying. Instead of "kommt" it's "geht" nowadays - "Das geht mir nicht aus dem Sinn" meaning "I can't get it out of my head". Other sayings with "Sinn" are today "Das kommt mir nicht in den Sinn, das zu tun" (I don't get the idea to do that) or "von Sinnen" as in "Du bist ja von Sinnen" (You're insane).
"Unsinn" has nothing to do with madness or insanity (except that is probably one of the consequence of insanity), it means something that doesn't make sense, i.e. "nonsense" or "garbage": "Rede keinen Unsinn" (Don't talk garbage).

The most beautiful virgin sat
wonderfully up on there,
Die schönste Jungfrau sitzet
dort oben wunderbar,

dort oben wunderbar translates more literally as there above wonderfully, but the sense of the phrase appears to mean that she is sitting in a high-up place, "up there" in an eloquent sense.

Yes, that's it.

[b]her golden locks flashing
ihr goldnes Geschmeide blitzet,
I don't know what Geschmeide are, but it appears to be a noun form of the verb "scheiden", or separating, so I figured that in this context "locks" would fit the sense of the poem.[b]

No, it has nothing to do with "scheiden". As I said, "Geschmeide" is a very old word for "Schmuck" (jewelry).

She combs it with golden combs,
Sie kämmt es mit goldenem Kamme,
I could not find a translation for Kamme, just the same as with Geschmeide, but from the verb "kämmt" used in the sentence (he/she/it combs) and the similarity, I concluded that it was a noun form of "kämmt" and meant comb.

"Kamme" is a very old form of "Kamm".

and sing a song with it.
und singt ein Lied dabei;
Dabei means more literally thereby, or over-there-by-it.

It means that she is singing a song while she is combing her hair.

great Melody.
gewaltige Melodei.
gewaltige trasnlated as "enormous", but the word appears to be related to the German for "world", so I assumed that the word meant more of a "world-encompassing" sort of connotation rather than a physically-large connotation such as enormous has... and used great.

There's no connotation with "Welt" (world), but it still doesn't mean physically large, but of high volume. I would say that "enormous" fits better here.

The captain in small ships
Den Schiffer im kleinen Schiffe
The "Schiffer" is literally the person using the boat, not necesarily a captain.

Indeed, but most probably the captain is meant here.

he does not watch the rocky reefs
he looks only above.
er schaut nicht die Felsenriffe,
er schaut nur hinauf in die Höh.
"schauen" is to look (at/on). The word Höh I could also not find a translation for, but it appears to either be a typo or a poetic shortening of Höch, "highly". I took it to mean that the Schiffer was looking up at the Lorelei, and so changed it from " looks only up into the high." to "looks only above" to keep closer to what I felt was the spirit of the poem.

Uhh... "Höch" doesn't exist. "Höh" is a shortening of "Höhe" which means "the high" (not the drug high), but also can mean "altitude" (but that isn't meant here). And yes, it means that he is looking up at Lorelei.

the captain and the boat
am Ende Schiffer und Kahn;
"The waves devoured the captain and his boat in the end" would be a good translation for the prose, but it doesn't fit with the line-by-line structure of the poem.

Yes, it is a nice translation.

and that is what she with her singing
the Lorelei has done.
und das hat mit ihrem Singen
die Lorelei getan.

The English was contorted to fit with the line structure of the German. The German would, word for word, mean this:
and that has with her singing
the Lorelei done.

Except for the superfluent "she", it was fitting.

I'll just leave it at this... and wait for some of my translation to be helpfully proved wrong by a resident German

You did nicely already if you consider that it was a quite old text which had hard-to-translate old words and old formulations

[ToshiroOC]

OK, thanks! Just read through that, everything makes sense For the German, though, it was just a direct copy/paste, I didn't try and correct the German (I most definitely wouldn't have been able to ) Thanks again! w00t!

[DriveEuro]

Isn't Loreli that song by STYX?

[ToshiroOC]

Any Styx song would be taking it's name from this Lorelei, not the other way around. Heinrich Heines

[merry]

Thanks, folks!

I'm not online on weekends (starting Fridays 4:00 pm EET), so sorry about replying so late.

I have this friend whose gf's name is Lorelei, and he was trying to find the English version of Brentano's "original" Lore Lay (we found it in a Lorelei compendium here, all in German). We are aware of at least one Romanian translation from Heine, but none from Brentano (there isn't one at Gutenberg). I thought there was one... well, there is now

Thanks a lot, you put a lot of work in it!