[Zardon]

This is a genuine question im asking all the american members of this forum brought up by a comment a guy ive known for a long time said to me last night on MSN messenger.

I asked him if he was watching he golf and he said no he wasnt because of that "nigger tiger woods". I thought initially he was joking but he wasnt as I found out shortly afterwards.

So is this just isolated or is it actaully still rife over there. I used to live in California just outside frisco and it was never bad there but im wondering what its like in the rest of america.

[daedal]

Well, I'm in Canada and I don't know any people with that kind of mentality.

[Callandor]

I'm a Canadian currently living in Southern Africa, and all I can tell you is that over here the south african whites (or boers as they're called, and that means "farmer" apparently) don't really show open hatred for blacks, it's just a thing that most of them keep to themselves. Some of them are pretty cool, but there's still alot of tension when a black enters a discussion with a white or something, and you can even see it on the two people's faces even if they try to hide and/or pretend it's not even there.

Plus there's obviously certain towns where there's a whole collection of racists living and I've often heard of stories where a different race someone enters a bar in such areas and is either a) beaten half to death or b) forced to wisely back out and drive out of there as soon as they can, luckily most of the stories I've heard end with the option b.

In the states and Canada and everywhere else though I'm sorry to say I still believe racisim is alive and well, heck, when I was at the high commisioners residence on Canada day last year, there were a bunch of black canadians that came along to the occasion, and boy, you should have seen the looks they got! Some of them weren't even talked to, except to by me and a few other guys, some of whom just put in a word or two just to show that they were not "racist". And there happened to be a few Americans there too. (some of the Canadians there were of other races as well, indian, red-indian, coloured, etc, but they didn't experience even half of the treatment that the black canadians recieved).

If Canadians and Americans can exhibit such behaviour in full view of their own high commisioner to a certain part of the world without being ashamed or even embarrassed about the way they're acting, then what more in their own countries?

It's alive and well unfourtunately I'm afraid, and even if some people might "pretend" that it isn't, and that they themselves aren't "racist", the black people themselves will tell you that it is still alive, they can feel it in the way they're looked at, if you ask them, you'll see. It's just like the feeling you get when you think someone doesen't like you, they can feel that someone doesen't like them for nothing other than the colour of their skin, and if you watch closely, you'll notice they'll even show it.

[The_Neon_Cowboy]

It’s not so bad here. I grew up with it though the older individuals or some of those who
went to the same schools that (It was pretty bad with a few people). Are way more likely…
I have such words in my vocabulary from hearing them from relatives, rap music, TV and
so forth but I don’t use then my self. Most people keep thouse kind of things to thems
selfs.

A lot of it has to do with lower schools here with few blacks even though the high schools
here are loaded and multicultural and very diverse.

The influence your parents and relatives only can matter so much. IMO the biggest factor
is say elementary schools that aren’t very integrated. Last not when I went to school.

From K through 6, we had an Asian student in our class that was about it. (Who I kind of
secretly liked but she was different as in she didn’t like boys! Whole other story) I can’t
remember seeing a single black student until I was in a much larger middle school.

That lack of interaction made people of color made them kind of like outsiders. Which
made people of color more susceptible for people not to like or interact with them because
they where different. It’s less a problem with the schools where students frequently
interacted with a large pool of races k through12.

A lot the older individuals have lacked this interaction all together k-12, especially those
over about 40-50 years old (grand parents generation). So they are far more likely to feel,
say or act differently towards other races they where not common with.

Of course the schools are a lot different @ k-6 as they where when I went to school. It
went from a small mostly white community (another factor) to one that is a lot more
diverse then it was say 20 years ago. This is also a collage town another factor!

I personally don’t have a problem with any races. A person’s a person! But I believe those
who’ve grew up with and worked with other races are less likely to look at others that way.

[Falstaff]

Racism is and always will be an aspect of American culture, but it isnt just for any color, depends on where you go in the world as well, and it really isnt white to non white or people of colour. Racism has existed historically long before the United States. As long as there is fear, economic boundrys, and cultural differences there will be racism. In America however it is taught to black children, white children and any other colour you may pick, that is how it persists, we teach our chldren to hate and fear.
As for the word nigger, what can you say, even some African Americans use it freely with each other and the entertainment industry exploits those differences to make a dollar or two. Racism is worth millions.
What is so ironic is that Tiger Woods is racially mixed, being Asian and African American.
My own family is racially mixed on my mothers side and my children found it hard to swallow, since they believed that they have a Latino identity since their mother is mexican....LOL
Racism still exists today, now with affirmative action, many whites are frustrated when they see African Americans or Asians promoted or given oppurtunities to maintain the status quo or demographic in corporations and government jobs, but it all equals out.
I contend that the entertainment industry perpetuates the stereotypes and gives people with racist thoughts or philosophy a "comfort zone". I was raised in a christian home most of my life overseas in Europe and rarely came across truly racist situations except in the military and in school in Alabama, but that is another story, I had a black girlfriend, and nobody including my parents approved of my ebony princess in highschool, sigh.....

[Callandor]

I agree with you Neon.

You know in South Africa, they even have a little town that's still implimenting apartheid (or however you spell that word). It's like they still fly the flag of the "old" south africa and the kids are taught to hate blacks and indians and other races and also the entire place is kept away from by people of other races other than whites. It's apparently where all the whites that don't like the "new" SA have moved to, and it's a little cause for concern to the government, coz if a black or coloured or other race person finds themselves marooned/trapped there, they could come to a very bad end.

[Falstaff]

yeah...seperate but equal sure has created an enduring cultural legacy..

[Vikingod]

interesting thread. Bigotry is an issue everywhere, wether is based on skin or religion. It is sad too. Where I am from (Western NY) it isn't so bad, not to say it doesn't exist. It seems that in some areas it is more of an issue. I live in a city with 40,000 people, everything is mixed, so it doesn't seem to be too much of an issue with people around my age and younger. With some of the older people it seems to be more predominant. I work is a small town in PA, here it is more of an issue. It seems not too many people are comfortable, maybe not down right racist, but definetly uneasy about people who aren't WASPy. I know down south it is definetly a great issue, still a battle in some areas. I think it depends on where you grow up and who your parents are. My parents never tolerated.. well... intolerance from me. I have many white, black, hispanic, gay, jewish, etc. friends, not that i don't see their difference from me, it just doesn't bother me.

[Zardon]

Originally Posted by fallang_jeff

I was raised in a christian home most of my life overseas in Europe and rarely came across truly racist situations except in the military and in school in Alabama, but that is another story,

Can you elaborate on that Jeff?

[TJ-]

Well im not from America, but when i liven in Canada things were pretty bad. Where i lived there was groups and gangs of different people (blacks, asians, skinheads, east indians etc) and it was very bad. Attacks of rival gangs were a daily occurance. Basically in high school you had to be in one of those groups or you would be a target. Needness to say i am white so was in the appropriate group. Although there were some contacts made between the groups, they were mainly for buisness (if ya know what i mean) Very racist in that part of town. Vancouver and Surrey. B.C.

Here in Australia there is racism but not as much. People here dont seem to like aboriginies, and honestly, i dont. But i have my reasons that i wont go into right now. Other than that i dont really care, as long people dont try to mess with me.

[YAYitsAndrew]

It depends on where you go. If you stick to states like NJ, NY, CA, sometimes VA (probably some correlation with states giving kerry votes) you won't find much racism. That's not to say there isn't racism, you're just in the wrong if you express it. Being a racist will get your ass kicked because it's not the majority way of thinking around here. Quite the opposite in some states.

An interesting note is that in the same states where I see racism, the kids still view college as an option.

Perhaps there is racism all over, I think I'm racist against southerners.

[Sargentwhitey]

Around here, there (NJ) really isnt any racism. I haven't seen any cases of racism or anything of such nature. Some people I know are a bit racist.. but pretty much everyone doesn't like at least one group of people.

[aaronbond]

Well I'm in bright,sunny Florida and I've lived in Miami and Daytona Beach and far as I can tell racism isn't a big deal, but I guess I attribute that to Florida basically being a big melting-pot. It seems everyone in Florida are not from Florida. You can go around asking how long they've lived here or their family and I think the average would be 20 years. A couple hicks here and there might not agree too well with non-caucasion(sp?), but I don't see a glaring,obvious seperation. I've seen plenty of mixed groups of friend's in the younger generation (30 and below). I think the word "nigger" is used so freely these days. It depends on the context of which you use it in (i.e. "nigga what" "what's up nigga" "that nigga be crazy"). To pronounce it out leaves a sort of bad conotation to it.

I also find there is a language barrier that is really starting to affect conversation between blacks and caucasions here in the South. I'm not just talking slang or street terms I mean a literal dialect that is growing. I swear the majority of blacks I hear speak are horrible @ grammar or spelling. "I be going down over on uhhhh you know Clive Strreet you know and uhhh" There is a social line somewhere that seperates the Northern black population to the Southern. You don't hear Tiger Woods going "yeah yeah that's right I got me that prize man" I believe it stems from a lack of education, but isn't it oxymoronic to say that because for more than 20 years we've had equal rights, but they say that the black population still has a lower percentage of graduate youth even in schools with the same ratio 50/50. Half the time I couldn't understand what some of them were saying when I was in highschool. Yes, I mean the last statement literally.

One of my best friend's in high school was my friend, Will, and he never spoke like that in front of me, but when he'd start talking to some of his other black friend's he'd start slurring his speech a little and use some odd terminology to which I knew to what he was referring to; yet didn't understand why he wouldn't use the literal term from the English language.

I in no way myself hold prejudice to a race or creed I guess because I hold such a multi-cultural background myself. No need in it. We all come from the same soil beneath our feet and we all go back to it in the end. I think in some ways we all want to feel we are better than another person, but basing your judgement of someone on their skintone is very shallow.

[Callandor]

You can say that again. And you know, what you said about the way black American people speak, I think it's just they're way of trying to make their own "culture", you know, just like the people from the south (or where Bush comes from ) speak funny, but in a way it could also be an advancement from how they originally learnt to speak english to a sort of mix to the way they learnt to speak it (from the southerners) to the way they speak it now, which could be a sort of mix of the way they learnt to speak it, and they way they used to speak, if you know what I mean.

[Geminiwave]

When I lived in Oklahoma, racism was rampant among adults. Among kids, they tended to band togeather to protect themselves at school(teachers were BRUTAL! They still beat children in my down) I never went to school, but all three of my brothers did, and it was hell for them.

Anyway if black kids wore similar types of clothing, it would be banned and considered "gang paraphenelia(sp?)" then again, if a bunch of white kids did that, it was the same thing. My brother got that rule overturned by having all of the black kids in the school wear the school sports shirts. The shirt was immediately banned and a week later the school retracted all of its bans on clothing(cause they realized how stupid they were).

I recall when I moved there, it was still segregated. There was a black pool and a white pool. A black school and a white school. etc etc. The black pools and black schools were shut down when I was about 4 I think, and the white pool and white school were ordered to take the blacks in. The school had no choice since they were state owned. The pool was privately owned though, and the owner said that he would rather shut it down than allow blacks in. Oh yeah and dropping the N bomb was considered A-OK in oklahoma. Calling someone a "nigger" was commonplace.

Now in seattle, I find a very different picture. People here are very open minded and the racism is light...except for the minorities here. MANY minorities in the northwest(but not all) have a chip on their shoulder and like to say "YOUR ANCESTORS ENSLAVED ME! YOU SHOULD FEEL ASHAMED!" (funny thing...Nowhere in my bloodline is a person who enslaved a black...POSSIBLY some of our ancestors enslaved russians, but thats it. and that was a LONG time agi) Anyway basically because the NW is so open minded, they allow and even condone racism classes where someone preaches to you about how discusting whites are and how they should feel ashamed for what they do. If someone says they are not racist, that person is informed that they ARE racist but just dont know it(supposedly every white is racist).

Its actually very sad. Oh yeah and now that I think about it, there is a logging town down by ocean shores(lower washington) that is uber racist.

I guess it all really depends on your perspective. When I was in france, they seem to be very much non-racist until you get into socializing with all sorts of people and you realize that they are alittle bit bigoted. If a minority is doing something that the french consider bad, it'll be banned(such as middle-eastern women wearing those headwrap thingies. I dont remember what they're called. Anyway theres a good example)

[violat3]

ehm from Scotland and eh dinny like teh Catholics, they don't act like normal Catholics up here they act mair like Northern Ireland Catholics, take Monklands council in Lanarkshire for example it was Catholic run (Labour Party) and their was a big stir about 10 - 15 years ago that teh Protestants (teh majority in Scotland) were treated as second class citizens and teh Catholics recieved preferential treat ment and this is meant to be a Protestant country , also in Lanarkshire the council decided they wanted single campus schools to end teh sectarian problem up here but the catholic bishop Law said he would only agree if their was seperate entrances for catholics and Protestant children and he also demanded seperate staff rooms for teh schools staff .... Apartheid is alive in well in Scotland and sadly teh Catholic minority seem to have teh power , it may be sad for me to say this but eh hope their pope burns in damnations fire


this is the same s*um that booed and sang ira songs during teh minutes silence fer teh Queen Mother they had to stop it after 26 seconds because it was so bad

[mike2h]

i have lived in n & s cal(they are different bty), utah, texas, & have spent time in florida(one of my daughters lives there). & just to be clear when i speak of rascism i am not just speaking of the black/white dynamic but rascism in its entirety & extreme prejudicial behavior as a whole.
rascism is still alive & kicking in the us but is now an equal opportunity employer. while overall, the amount of rascism is declining, being rascist against whites in general seems to be an almost 'acceptable' activity.
the south as whole still has some serious issues but is getting better.
above comments aside, rascism has been declining, it still has long ways to go but the majority of the population is making this what it is, a work of progress.
it will take many years, & will never completly go away, human nature being what it is. but those ignorant people that find rascism & bigotry an acceptable way of life are finding their 'lifestyle' less & less acceptable by the majority of the people & are finding increasing roadblocks to voicing & acting on their beliefs. & things are only going to get rougher for them.
i actually have more concern with the religous, racial, & nationalistic(do not confuse this with pride, there is a difference) prejudice/bigotry that seems to be running rampant in a lot of the world. until these problems are dealt with on a global level the problems the world is having as a whole will never go away & in fact will worsen imo.

[Liquid2k5]

I live in canada and one thing, I can tell you is it's not the in your face racism of years past, rather it is now a more subtle racism mascarading as humour. As part of my work I interact with people on the telephone and via email (msn as well) quite a bit, I have wonderfull conversations with people and an awesome working relationship, but sometimes (and this is rare) when they meet me in person what was once a warm working relationship becomes cold. You see I spent most of my life in private school and dont sound like the stereotypical black man and once the see me in the flesh it shocks them and their true colours are revealed. But as I said earlier this is quite rare but not at all surprising when it happens.

[mike2h]

Originally Posted by Liquid2k5

I live in canada and one thing, I can tell you is it's not the in your face racism of years past, rather it is now a more subtle racism mascarading as humour. As part of my work I interact with people on the telephone and via email (msn as well) quite a bit, I have wonderfull conversations with people and an awesome working relationship, but sometimes (and this is rare) when they meet me in person what was once a warm working relationship becomes cold. You see I spent most of my life in private school and dont sound like the stereotypical black man and once the see me in the flesh it shocks them and their true colours are revealed. But as I said earlier this is quite rare but not at all surprising when it happens.

good post. thx.
i think this is a good example of how things are progressing. thing are better, but still need, & will always need, more work & education.
a lot of this has to do with getting by the generations that were raised in an enviroment were this was partially or in some cases totally acceptable.
this is also the problem that faces the world as whole. you have significant populations, & in some cases countries as a generalised whole, that have had prejudices, bigotry, & hatreds ingrained in to them for many generations(which dwarfs by scale what has happened here in the us). it is a way of life. until the global community starts actively dealing with these problems & commits to a program(s) long term we are all in trouble.

[digerati]

My father was racist against blacks and still is. When I was talking to this half white half black girl and showing romantic interest in her he wouldn't call her by her name, he'd refer to her as either "mutt" or "half-breed." Even though I myself am a mutt or a half breed he never dare call me that. I live in California by the way.

My mom is not so much racist against blacks as she is scared of them. But that's because she was almost caught in a few gang shootings and almost raped by a black man. I can't tell her not to be afraid of them with experiences like that.

I have spoken to people from the latin countries and when they use the N word I usually stop talking about them. I think that word is offensive and I don't think anyone should use it black or white.

I haven't met anyone racist against Asians yet but I have heard of some complaints. But not too long ago there were the riots against the blacks and the Chinese. And it has been statistically proven that the highest amounts of murders are minorities vs. other or the same minority. And I think that shows racism, but not from the white's side.

And blacks have gotten in to what seems to me as counter-culture. They spent all this time getting equal rights and climbing the social ladder and now they ditch school, speak in ways that I would expect from a 4 year old and see their future as a "thug."

Zardon, if you want to know more about this counter-culture you should look up Bill Cosby's opinion about the trends of blacks. He feels the same way I do.

But back to the topic. If you want racism here in the states you have to look for the conservative states, the states in the middle of the country or down south. The outside states seem to be much less racist as immigration of minorities is higher there.

[Liquid2k5]

the problem (as I see it is) in the case of the United States for example (not meant as a jab at americans) is the country was forged on slavery and rasism and unfortunately old habits die hard. Now this goes both way for blacks and whites, there is and for a long time to come, will be those who wont let old wounds close, on both sides this is true. The older people that behave this way are not the ones that worry me. What worries me is when I play Counterstrike online and I hear nigger this nigger that, jew this jew that, I mean these are kids saying these things, so lets not be naive here this is a problem that will plague us for a few more generations at least. Fortunately from talking to my parents and my friends parents (both black and white) things are a hell of alot better now than they were in their youth, and that is a alot better than standing still.

[e v o]

Racism gets mixed up with stereotypes and it gets hard to tell which is being "stereotypical" and which is racist. I'm adopted, korean, have white parents, who are sorta jewish. I had my fair share of getting beasted, but whatever, it only made me stronger and smarter. I lived on Cape Cod for a while when i was young, and i got the "are you chinese?" a lot. (Cape Cod is mainly white for those that don't know). I live in Boston, so there are a lot of different people from all over the world.

I also think that Racism is not the biggest social issue, but classism is. I feel that Classism incorporates racism because it's a much wider issue. But that's another topic...

edit: i dunno, when i start to think about this type of stuff too much, i try to sit back and just thank whoever, that there are so many different people. It makes it much more interesting

[Falstaff]

Originally Posted by fallang_jeff
I was raised in a christian home most of my life overseas in Europe and rarely came across truly racist situations except in the military and in school in Alabama, but that is another story,


Can you elaborate on that Jeff?

Well for the most part, my childhood was spent with people of many different races, when I lived in Alabama, I was bused to an all black school and learned about racism and reverse racism first hand, being only two of all the white kids in the school, my parents were not concerned that the school was black.
In the military, I faced racism head on, especially in Camp Lejune NC. in the summer of 1977, we had a race riot on base because african americans were discriminated against in various roles on base, it was the beginning of a reawakening of racial consiousness for the United States military.

[Sandok]

I had a bad experince where I used to live in Conneticut. I was really young (10 or 11) and the only black kid in the bus and this one guy (just one so it was okay) but he'd come and insult me in every word possible and I was new in the States and my english wasn't that great (still isn't) and well, he really shocked me. I had never experienced hate towards me cuz of my skin... That sorta left a mark and maybe a reason I don't love the US as much anymore

[aaronbond]

I would have popped him in his eye and said "You're stupidity just got you beat up." :-)

[Geminiwave]

I think the big problem here is that there are two sides to this issue. Whites, and minorities.

since when do we have to have sides?! Racism wouldnt be such a problem if we were united on ending it. I admit that racism is a tough thing to combat. Its possible that it is even human nature, but that doesnt mean we cant beat it.

My problem is that I see many "whites"(I actually have a problem with this word) working very hard to end racism and they actually arent racist at all, but then minorities will be holding a chip on their shoulders and every time they come across a white person they go "Well you're just a racist cracker that thinks I'm a thug." Sorry, but the only time I ever think someone is a thug is when they actually ARE a thug.

I think that racism is not nearly as big of a problem in the states as it use to be. In fact, I think that racism isnt too bad in the USA. I think the problem is that many minorities have aligned themselves into a "side" against whites.

[mike2h]

Originally Posted by sandok

I had a bad experince where I used to live in Conneticut. I was really young (10 or 11) and the only black kid in the bus and this one guy (just one so it was okay) but he'd come and insult me in every word possible and I was new in the States and my english wasn't that great (still isn't) and well, he really shocked me. I had never experienced hate towards me cuz of my skin... That sorta left a mark and maybe a reason I don't love the US as much anymore

while this guy was an obvious as....e letting his inexcusable actions reflect on a 250,000,000 pop country is a little much.
hopefully this was your only bad experience.
i had a couple of similar experiences while stationed in germany. those 'incidents' in no way affected my opinion of germany as a whole. i had a great time while i was there & would really like to go back.
given our other travel plans not sure how viable that is going to be, but who knows? i won a really cool video card here, maybe zardon will have a trip to germany competition

[riles9262]

Up here in bc canada there is mostly stereotyping going on, although sometimes blatant racism as well. The whole vancouver scene in which asians and east indians have, according to some locals, "taken over" parts of town is the main issue. Whites living in that area are quite vocal about the other races much of the time (mostly about ignorance toward our country and driving ), and there is quite a bit of interracial wars going on as well.

I don't spend enough time there to have an opinion, and I also only get to hear one point of view (white's), but that is an example that I can add.

[BiGBrOwNPimpsta]

canada isn't bad, but there is more prejudice rather than racist evident in rural parts. it's mainly because almost all farmers are white folk and mingle with only with white folk. they don't like to accept anyone else and i've heard and seen it. the kids in private schools with farms and families with business that have moved to the city don't like colored people. toronto is one of the most multicultural cities in the whole world and even here last summer people were commiting hate crimes against the jews. like wtf, we aren't done with them yet?

but the states the issue is far more severe, our definition of free speech is a bit limited compared to the americans. they have the KKK having open marches and similar things occuring. in canadian law, we can express our opinion but not promote hatred. there was a group in the states saying lets kill all the white men and take their women, in canada that is not acceptable. also the issue is larger there since the population is larger; more apples we have, more rotten ones are apparent. sure i wont argue that certain ethnic groups are well known to be involved (not be the direct cause) of issues in north america, but every ethnic group does it which makes it stupid to be discriminatory towards one.

prejudice really pisses me off, also people that refuse to participate in activities with other groups. i mean its not only "white" people, its very apparent in asian people, lots in arabic, european and hispanic, and it is visible in all other ethnic groups. like my buddies half irish/half italian dont wanna goto china town for some food or let's try that arabic place. they wanna stick to burgers and fries, man you live in a multicultural society try and make all parts multicultural i say. people that do i find to be far more knowledgable. i was the ONLY brown kid in the school to chill with all the white kids, all the black kids, all the asian kids, all the brown kids and loads of other races (russian, spanish, arab, philipino whose women i want to steal). i am the most racist person you will meet, but the most anti-racist person also. racists piss the f*ck out of me, if you have some factual reasoning (i.e. destroyed your home country) maybe i could consider some stuff you say, otherwise in this part of the world it's unacceptable.

Originally Posted by e v o

I also think that Racism is not the biggest social issue, but classism is. I feel that Classism incorporates racism because it's a much wider issue. But that's another topic...

and no classism and racism are closely linked IMO. many times i have noticed, if you are indeed the majority ethnicity or act like it you are held more highly. if you act like an immigrant or a minority you are nothing. it's in our schools and even in our workplaces. my old school was predominantly chinese and vietnamese, i'm brown my friends found me odd. i mixed in, im one of the few brown people that eat sushi or pho (viet rice noodle soup) with chopsticks. i goto my new school, more indian people they are kinda prejudice against muslims and even some chinese. i saw direct racism from an ignorant immigrant indian kid toward one arabic guy who did nothing to him. i was gonna smack the sh*t outta him, but he's just a stupid immigrant who calls canada garbage and doesn't deserve to be here.

to conclude, society in our continent is multicultural. learn to live with it and mix in, if you can't get the hell out or you should be the ones secluded.

[nitrousoxide52]

I live in a small town in NY right near Buffalo, and there is no racism that I can see, it doesn't *seem* to be as rampant in the north as it is in the south, although that is a stereotype [white farmer, with accent always says n word] I have lived in the south and it is actually like that, people are stupid, when are they going to stop looking on the outside, dogs live peacefully and only fight for territory, almost all of them look different