ATI: Wii Graphics at E3 "Tip of the Iceberg"

Iria · Jun 5, 2006, 05:16 AM

Source: GameDaily
__________
Although by many accounts Nintendo stole the show at this year's E3 with an impressive Wii showing, the graphics of the Wii games were far from impressive. That said, we spoke with an ATI representative who explained that what we saw was just the "tip of the iceberg." The "Hollywood" GPU may be more powerful than we think.

While Microsoft and Sony are busy pushing polygons and stressing high-definition content, Nintendo has let graphics take a "backseat," if you will, to the unique functionality of the Wii-mote. Many people who viewed and played Wii games at E3 this year would tell you that the visuals looked roughly on par with what users already see on their GameCubes.

But that doesn't mean that Wii games will simply look like GameCube titles using a unique control method. Nintendo already told us that the hardware being used at E3 was not finalized. Moreover, during the show GameDaily BIZ met with ATI, which is providing the "Hollywood" GPU for the Wii, and John Swinimer, Senior Public Relations Manager of Consumer Products, emphasized that the Wii architecture is capable of producing far better results than what we've witnessed thus far. "I think what you saw [on Wii] was just the tip of the iceberg of what the Hollywood chip can bring to the Nintendo Wii," he said.

IamLakota · Jun 5, 2006, 09:07 AM

When the Wii hits the shelves I'll get one,it will probly be less expensive overall than building a whole new PC system.

EcPercy · Jun 5, 2006, 10:31 AM

I am with Nintendo on this one. I think that the graphics don't need to be as stunning as long as gameplay is fun. Plus, I don't need a machine that can do everything. All I want is a video game player. I already have a DVD player and a computer. If I want HD then I will get a player for that.

Sandok · Jun 5, 2006, 11:45 AM

But if you wanna play in HD, your screwed... I know many people who don't want a few billion players to do eveything they want but just ONE gorgeous machine so they never have to fiddle with wires and all.

Gameplay is important but immersion is important too and while the stick helps that, the graphics definately don't.

YAYitsAndrew · Jun 5, 2006, 12:14 PM

Tell your friends to build a media pc.

EcPercy · Jun 5, 2006, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sandok

Gameplay is important but immersion is important too and while the stick helps that, the graphics definately don't.

Truthfully, I don't think that graphics are going to be a problem with Wii. I know I am starting to sound like a fanboi, but take a look at the super smash bros. series pictures. You can see that they are adding quite a bit of detail to the characters.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Smash_Bros._series

Also, look at the video from e3. Looks pretty nice to me.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...smash+bros+wii

Sandok · Jun 5, 2006, 01:03 PM

I do mate... It's purty but not up to the standards of today. Look at Gears of War, Crysis, MGS4, UT2007 and all! Those are games that really blow your mind away and are different and new for the genre.

I mean, how many Smash Bros have their been and all? Nintendo HAS lost some of their major develooppers (Factor 5 anyone?) and honestly, I'd rather place my money on the X360.

SFOSOK · Jun 5, 2006, 02:37 PM

HD is not everything. I'm looking forward to being able to buy Perfect Dark, Conkers, Zelda, Chrono Trigger. Hell, that alone is reason for me to buy this system. Well Chrono Trigger alone makes the system worth it.

Judas · Jun 5, 2006, 08:11 PM

actually, i beleive that the Wii is capable of produce good results ..... in terms of running 2007.. (and i beleive it's being ported over as we speak)..

reguardless, the Xbox orginal vs the Gamecube, even though the orginal Xbox had a hugely superoir abilities in the 3D relms..... the Gamecube was able to match if not beat the same complexities graphically with a very very weak graphics processor (once again from ATI)..

I will not be surprised at all to see for example... Metroid Prime 3.... kick the living shit outa Halo 3's..... xbox 360 vs Wii...

And the gameplay will obviously be superior.

Sandok, go find some directly ripped from a Interlaced capture of Halo 1/2 and compare it against a Metroid Prime 1/2 of the gamecube... you'll quickly notice that the graphics are fairly identical quality wise.. even though the hardware is quit different.

Also, Nintendo has always had console that load instantly..... bye bye to load times.... always.....

Sandok · Jun 5, 2006, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Green Death Flavor

HD is not everything. I'm looking forward to being able to buy Perfect Dark, Conkers, Zelda, Chrono Trigger. Hell, that alone is reason for me to buy this system. Well Chrono Trigger alone makes the system worth it.

Perfect Dark has moved over to M$... Conkers too mate... You see what I mean, the big boys have left Nintendo!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Judas

actually, i beleive that the Wii is capable of produce good results ..... in terms of running 2007.. (and i beleive it's being ported over as we speak)..

reguardless, the Xbox orginal vs the Gamecube, even though the orginal Xbox had a hugely superoir abilities in the 3D relms..... the Gamecube was able to match if not beat the same complexities graphically with a very very weak graphics processor (once again from ATI)..

I will not be surprised at all to see for example... Metroid Prime 3.... kick the living shit outa Halo 3's..... xbox 360 vs Wii...

And the gameplay will obviously be superior.

Sandok, go find some directly ripped from a Interlaced capture of Halo 1/2 and compare it against a Metroid Prime 1/2 of the gamecube... you'll quickly notice that the graphics are fairly identical quality wise.. even though the hardware is quit different.

Also, Nintendo has always had console that load instantly..... bye bye to load times.... always.....

You mean UT2007 Judas? It's exclusive PS3 and PC... And about Xbox vs GC, you are comparing the SAME generation... The GC was actually stronger than a PS2 and a bit worse than a Xbox but overall, all three were very similar in power. But this time around, the Wii isn't even comparable. It's like comparing a 7900GTX SLI system to a 9600XT... You just can't.

And again, Halo vs Metroid = same generation. You can't compare things that are 5 times more powerful than another console!!! And the GC had load times... You will have load times unless your on catridge mate...

Judas · Jun 5, 2006, 08:50 PM

actually no.. the GC doesn't have load times.... i've never ever seen or played a GC game that had load times..

and you don't need to have load times if they programed the game correctly (the GC will only have load times when the game was already intentionally released on the xbox or ps2

)

Plus, the GC and Xbox are not of the same generation.... the Graphics chips themselves aren't even remotely close to the same generation..

The Xbox has a Modified (slightly more powerful) Nvidia Geforce 3 design..

Where as the GameCube i beleive has a similarely ATI radeon 7000 ish chip (hell i think even lower then that yet)...

Ut2007 isn't Exclusively a PC/PS3.... it's already been mentioned on the Xbox 360, the Engine itself is designed to be able to cross vast platforms and designs as long as they all meet some bare minimum requirements that i beleive have been finalised in the engine itself.

What does the PS3 have for a gpu? You have any specific details on it?

As far as my sources say, the Wii is saposed to have a trimmed down variation of the X1k generation of the gpu, A More efficient but obviously less powerful one at that. Not a bloody 9600xt

lol....

And in terms of power, there are several factors the determine it, you can't compare a intel's Mhz rating to a AMDs mhz rating, it's been proven and shown to be totally incorrect....

In the end we'll see...

FireElements · Jun 5, 2006, 10:09 PM

Wow, Sandok's goal in life must be to bash Nintendo.

Sandok · Jun 5, 2006, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Judas

actually no.. the GC doesn't have load times.... i've never ever seen or played a GC game that had load times..

and you don't need to have load times if they programed the game correctly (the GC will only have load times when the game was already intentionally released on the xbox or ps2

)

Plus, the GC and Xbox are not of the same generation.... the Graphics chips themselves aren't even remotely close to the same generation..

The Xbox has a Modified (slightly more powerful) Nvidia Geforce 3 design..

Where as the GameCube i beleive has a similarely ATI radeon 7000 ish chip (hell i think even lower then that yet)...

Ut2007 isn't Exclusively a PC/PS3.... it's already been mentioned on the Xbox 360, the Engine itself is designed to be able to cross vast platforms and designs as long as they all meet some bare minimum requirements that i beleive have been finalised in the engine itself.

What does the PS3 have for a gpu? You have any specific details on it?

As far as my sources say, the Wii is saposed to have a trimmed down variation of the X1k generation of the gpu, A More efficient but obviously less powerful one at that. Not a bloody 9600xt

lol....

And in terms of power, there are several factors the determine it, you can't compare a intel's Mhz rating to a AMDs mhz rating, it's been proven and shown to be totally incorrect....

In the end we'll see...

I dunno Rogue Squadron had slight load times if my memory recalls well... Could be mistaken of course!

Yes but the general OUTPUT of the GC and Xbox are the same... That you can't argue your way against and every reviewer and tech developper knows it.

PS2<GC<Xbox but teh diff in between them is soooo minute. The general graphical FPS and graphics are of the same geneartion.

The engine is cross platform for Unreal 3, agreed but according to the interviews from E3, they say it's only coming out for the moment on PS3 and PC mate.

The GPU for the PS3 is a variant of NVs best with a very similar architeture found in the Xbox360 (unified shaders and all of the blabla) and even if the Wii has a scaled down X1k type , from WIIZONE.com, this is what they say for the GPU:

GPU is comparable to an ATi Radeon X1400 and X1600. In comparison to the Xbox 360, the GPU on the 360 is sometimes compared to an X1800.

Big difference still... And CPU is a big jump too (less physics as a consequence) since 3x 3GHZ CPU not as bad as a (and I quote):

CPU is comparable to an AthlonXP 2400+ to an AthlonXP 3000+. This new revelation shows that the clock speed is possibly between 2.0 Ghz to 2.2 Ghz but can perform much better as AthlonXP’s do.

You can beat around the bush but in the end, the Wii is WAY less powerful than M$ and Sony but that's not the point since Nintendo offically announced they aren't competing for the same market as M$ and Sony and they won't be goign "next-gen" this time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FireElements

Wow, Sandok's goal in life must be to bash Nintendo.

If it was I wouldn't own a single nintendo product... Oh wait, but I DO own nintendo products... There goes that argument

FireElements · Jun 5, 2006, 10:43 PM

Well, it's just that I've never seen you say anything positive about the DS or Wii and you always have something negative to say about them.

YAYitsAndrew · Jun 5, 2006, 11:07 PM

The only GC games that had load times were ones that were direct ports from the other systems.

Judas · Jun 5, 2006, 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YAYitsAndrew

The only GC games that had load times were ones that were direct ports from the other systems.

yep

Sandok, the ATI graphics chip can be compared to that of the x1600 easily, yes... no big deal. But it's not the same at all, it's got a few drawback in comparison and a few advantages.... at times i beleive with the current chip they plan on using, that they should be able to have some tasks perform even better then that of the x1900. The advantages of fully programable features. Obviously i mean we aren't going to be playing UT2007 @ everything to the max comparing it to that of the PC.

But we are still dealing with 90% of the people stilling using conventional TVS.... and probably half of them having still a Coxial cable to connect the consoles to (erg.. but still happenning constantly)...

Although i do agree, i would love to have a HD variant... i'm pissed that my GC was stolen, it had HDTV support (480p mind you, but that's much much better then conventional interlaced crap).... And nintendo stopped producing GCs with the Digital Port for HD out.

But i seriously doubt that the Wii is going to be lacking the same thing, they'll provide at the very least, component RGB out.

as for the 3 cpu's vs the one AMD comparible CPU.... aren't we fighting the same ol Intel Hyperthreading with dual core vs AMD dual core... i mean 4 should be better then 2 right? Although that's not a accurate comparison, for all we know about the cell, it benchmarks it may fly, but real world performance we'll see. And the CPU hasn't been set in stone yet either.

Drakon · Jun 5, 2006, 11:21 PM

Well Sandok should know, after all he prolly developed them all...

ChrisW · Jun 6, 2006, 12:31 AM

The graphics chip in the GC was made by ArtX. ATI purchased ArtX after they made the chip. It is not comparable to any of ATI's graphics cards.

The XBox 360 graphics chip is closer to that of ATI's next generation graphics chips yet to be released. I believe it is the architecture Microsoft used to design DirectX 10. I haven't heard anything about nVidia going the unified shader route.

Judas · Jun 6, 2006, 01:20 AM

I'm aware of the ArtX chip.... bought by ATI... but the general performance and capabilities are similare to that of the radeon 7000 i beleive.... (not sure, i don't think the GC has hardware lighting and transforming)

Jun 5, 2006, 05:16 AM	#1
Iria DriverHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 7,275 Rep Power: 89	ATI: Wii Graphics at E3 "Tip of the Iceberg" Source: GameDaily __________ Although by many accounts Nintendo stole the show at this year's E3 with an impressive Wii showing, the graphics of the Wii games were far from impressive. That said, we spoke with an ATI representative who explained that what we saw was just the "tip of the iceberg." The "Hollywood" GPU may be more powerful than we think. While Microsoft and Sony are busy pushing polygons and stressing high-definition content, Nintendo has let graphics take a "backseat," if you will, to the unique functionality of the Wii-mote. Many people who viewed and played Wii games at E3 this year would tell you that the visuals looked roughly on par with what users already see on their GameCubes. But that doesn't mean that Wii games will simply look like GameCube titles using a unique control method. Nintendo already told us that the hardware being used at E3 was not finalized. Moreover, during the show GameDaily BIZ met with ATI, which is providing the "Hollywood" GPU for the Wii, and John Swinimer, Senior Public Relations Manager of Consumer Products, emphasized that the Wii architecture is capable of producing far better results than what we've witnessed thus far. "I think what you saw [on Wii] was just the tip of the iceberg of what the Hollywood chip can bring to the Nintendo Wii," he said.

Jun 5, 2006, 09:07 AM	#2
IamLakota HardwareHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Viriginia Posts: 552 Rep Power: 0	When the Wii hits the shelves I'll get one,it will probly be less expensive overall than building a whole new PC system. __________________ Harley Davidson: If You Have To Ask You Wouldn't Understand!!! System Specs: Mobo:Asus P6T Deluxe V2,intel i7 920,2x BFG GTX 250 oc in SLI,Corsair 6gigs tri channel pc12800CL8 2xWD Velociraptor's 2x74gig WD Raptor , X-Fi Fatal1ty Titainium,HANNS-G HG281HD 1080p 28" monitor,Coolermaster HAF/922,PC-PWR&Cooling Sliencer 750,CoolerMaster V8 HSF

Jun 5, 2006, 12:14 PM	#5
YAYitsAndrew Anti-Piracy Poster Boy Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: NJ Posts: 2,605 Rep Power: 79 System Specs	Tell your friends to build a media pc. __________________ "It is because the resistance to paying for copyrighted material, although often characterized as arising from a supposed technical burden or principled concern for the public interest, arises rather from exactly the same segment of the brain that is dominant in shoplifters." - Mark Helprin, Digital Barbarism In other words, it's never okay to steal even if you think you have a good reason! www.yayitsandrew.com

Jun 5, 2006, 02:37 PM	#8
SFOSOK 939 Goin Strong Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Ontario Posts: 7,033 Rep Power: 90 System Specs	HD is not everything. I'm looking forward to being able to buy Perfect Dark, Conkers, Zelda, Chrono Trigger. Hell, that alone is reason for me to buy this system. Well Chrono Trigger alone makes the system worth it. __________________ Warning - Explicit Content Preceeding METAL!!

Jun 5, 2006, 11:07 PM	#15
YAYitsAndrew Anti-Piracy Poster Boy Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: NJ Posts: 2,605 Rep Power: 79 System Specs	The only GC games that had load times were ones that were direct ports from the other systems. __________________ "It is because the resistance to paying for copyrighted material, although often characterized as arising from a supposed technical burden or principled concern for the public interest, arises rather from exactly the same segment of the brain that is dominant in shoplifters." - Mark Helprin, Digital Barbarism In other words, it's never okay to steal even if you think you have a good reason! www.yayitsandrew.com

Jun 5, 2006, 10:31 AM	#3
EcPercy HardwareHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Iraq Posts: 1,535 Rep Power: 0	I am with Nintendo on this one. I think that the graphics don't need to be as stunning as long as gameplay is fun. Plus, I don't need a machine that can do everything. All I want is a video game player. I already have a DVD player and a computer. If I want HD then I will get a player for that.

Jun 5, 2006, 11:45 AM	#4
Sandok DriverHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 9,472 Rep Power: 0	But if you wanna play in HD, your screwed... I know many people who don't want a few billion players to do eveything they want but just ONE gorgeous machine so they never have to fiddle with wires and all. Gameplay is important but immersion is important too and while the stick helps that, the graphics definately don't.

Jun 5, 2006, 01:03 PM	#7
Sandok DriverHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 9,472 Rep Power: 0	I do mate... It's purty but not up to the standards of today. Look at Gears of War, Crysis, MGS4, UT2007 and all! Those are games that really blow your mind away and are different and new for the genre. I mean, how many Smash Bros have their been and all? Nintendo HAS lost some of their major develooppers (Factor 5 anyone?) and honestly, I'd rather place my money on the X360.

Jun 5, 2006, 10:09 PM	#12
FireElements DriverHeaven Lover Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 189 Rep Power: 0 System Specs	Wow, Sandok's goal in life must be to bash Nintendo.

Jun 5, 2006, 10:43 PM	#14
FireElements DriverHeaven Lover Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 189 Rep Power: 0 System Specs	Well, it's just that I've never seen you say anything positive about the DS or Wii and you always have something negative to say about them.

Jun 5, 2006, 11:21 PM	#17
Drakon DriverHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Floatin'... Posts: 4,957 Rep Power: 0	Well Sandok should know, after all he prolly developed them all...

Jun 6, 2006, 12:31 AM	#18
ChrisW DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 332 Rep Power: 0	The graphics chip in the GC was made by ArtX. ATI purchased ArtX after they made the chip. It is not comparable to any of ATI's graphics cards. The XBox 360 graphics chip is closer to that of ATI's next generation graphics chips yet to be released. I believe it is the architecture Microsoft used to design DirectX 10. I haven't heard anything about nVidia going the unified shader route.