Iria

Source: GamesIndustry.biz
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In a refreshing take on the battle against software piracy, developer Introversion has revealed that it 'causes mayhem' on peer-to-peer networks to exasperate pirates and downloaders who plan to play illegal copies of its games.

Speaking exclusively to GamesIndustry.biz in an interview to be published next week, the developer talks candidly about its methods of disrupting piracy by subverting and polluting peer-to-peer networks.

BWX

A waste of time... Announcing his plan is not exactly briliant..


[COLOR=Red]Risky [/COLOR] enough? What, like spreading viruses in your fake P2P games? Isn't spreading viruses illegal? What else would be "risky? Stick to what you do best, making crappy games, leave the legitimate bitTorrent users alone.

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YAYitsAndrew

Legitimate bit torrent users won't be downloading an illegal copy of their game. I think this method is great. It's like when you try to download the latest movie and it's just scooby doo with a renamed filename.

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"It is because the resistance to paying for copyrighted material, although often characterized as arising from a supposed technical burden or principled concern for the public interest, arises rather from exactly the same segment of the brain that is dominant in shoplifters."
- Mark Helprin, Digital Barbarism
In other words, it's never okay to steal even if you think you have a good reason!

www.yayitsandrew.com

Necrosis

P2P LOL...wow is this 2000?

The_Neon_Cowboy

Um people will use torrent form sites that won't link to their fakes, thier effectiveness? 0%
so scores stand at
warzers 9,175,000,000
Riaa,MpAA, Devs - 967,532 (yes thats negitive points)

Not to mention P2P ip blocking tool will simply block thier IP's, the fake download
severs will be gathering much dust from not being used

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YAYitsAndrew

The very nature of p2p won't let that happen. It's neato that those tools are in place but they don't weave a tight enough web to stop something like this from slipping in.

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"It is because the resistance to paying for copyrighted material, although often characterized as arising from a supposed technical burden or principled concern for the public interest, arises rather from exactly the same segment of the brain that is dominant in shoplifters."
- Mark Helprin, Digital Barbarism
In other words, it's never okay to steal even if you think you have a good reason!

www.yayitsandrew.com

BWX

I wouldn't know, I have never downloaded scooby doo with a renamed filenames. Only a complete noob would do something like that. Actually even a noob wouldn't do that because the good trackers would purge that crap before it go out in the open.

Point being though, their so called ingenious "We subverted the Bit Torrent network and All your torrent are belong to us" mentality and little scheme is completely useless.

It's funny how really good game devs have no problem selling games.. only crappy half-assed devs and publishers are worried about it - and they should be. Look how much effort they are putting into worrying about putting out fake P2P files and viruses instead of making their crappy games worth buying.

Hardware developers are the ones who should be giving game companies kickbacks.. and funding the development of the next gen. games. If it weren't for all the great games coming out, no one would by fast video cards and expensive PCs to put them in.

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LeanWolf

they're wasting their time. hasn't this crap been tried before with people paid to upload fake movie files? the peer to peer community is self-cleaning, the files never get far.

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YAYitsAndrew

There was a recent article in GDM about dealing with piracy. They key points were don't spend money fighting piracy in a country where your game is already doing poorly and don't use technologies that can sour the legitimate user's experience (read: starforce).

This tactic covers the second point really well. And they say it helped with Darwinia, an independent game that has won a lot of awards and has been very successful. Unless the method is HURTING their sales, why stop doing it? And that's the beauty. Because they target the people who already aren't buying their game, they can frustrate you all they want.

You all say you downloaded Oblivion and then "went out and purchased it" but how many of you are still playing your pirated copy?

edit: Hey look at it this way, you could download their pirated software and it could be a virus that wipes your system. Instead you get a demo that will help you buy the game after a few playthroughs. Sounds pretty good.

__________________
"It is because the resistance to paying for copyrighted material, although often characterized as arising from a supposed technical burden or principled concern for the public interest, arises rather from exactly the same segment of the brain that is dominant in shoplifters."
- Mark Helprin, Digital Barbarism
In other words, it's never okay to steal even if you think you have a good reason!

www.yayitsandrew.com

OmegaRED

LMAO

Ya this whole plan of theirs is rediculous. There was a time when MPAA and private companies would spread corrupt files of torrents all over and that was quickly fixed, most torrents sites are moving to private trackers and that kind of stuff is near impossible.

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BWX

Yeah, there s built in protection from that sort of thing.. even on the pub sites.

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The_Neon_Cowboy

Actually the data bases of bad ips is updated daily, so the most damage thier sever or fake download can do is with in 24hours. Most people will download what is already confirmed as a good working order copy not some "unkown file". So even if you took the p2p blocking tools out oif the equation people still won't be chageing anything. Any one with 1/2 a bit of since wil be getting the 100% full version and not thier BS. So thier efforts other then makeing head lines is pointless...

I like to try before I buy. They don't make demos so what you honestly think people
are going to spend $50 to $60 no refundable to desie if they like the game? Hell no!
unless you like burning wads of cash....

Even If I don't buy right away I buy it later when the price a has went down to a
more acceptable level. It be stupid to admit to anything.. on a public forum.

the other is, you buy a game , it breaks (the CD or DVD) your SOL well If you paid
for a licence, so thier only re getting thier game....no need to buy a "second licence"

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YAYitsAndrew

If a game uses a license key like wow, it doesn't matter how you get the client because you bought the registration code. Other games just give you the cds. If they break you should talk to the publisher to get replacements. Anything else (except your personal backup) is no good.

On an unrelated note, I like my friend's computer right now and I don't want to pay what it's worth right now so I'm going to just steal it from him now and then give him 20 bucks in a few years when all the parts were made obsolete by vista and are worth much less.

I think I'll get my groceries that way tomorrow too. Surely they'll be worth less when they're all expired but I wouldn't want to eat it if I waited that long for the price to go down.

Do you think I can get hamburger helper off of bit torrent yet? I'm really digging this whole steal it now pay less for it later thing. I could save a lot of money.

__________________
"It is because the resistance to paying for copyrighted material, although often characterized as arising from a supposed technical burden or principled concern for the public interest, arises rather from exactly the same segment of the brain that is dominant in shoplifters."
- Mark Helprin, Digital Barbarism
In other words, it's never okay to steal even if you think you have a good reason!

www.yayitsandrew.com

Necrosis

Here we go again.

BWX

YUP...




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This whole argument:
^ Is antiquated and totally unrelated to [COLOR=Red]SOFT[/COLOR]WARE... if hamburger helper was made by a guy, and then he could sell copies that cost nothing to reproduce for the next 10 years, then this argument might hold water.


You should go work for the MPAA and RIAA YAY, you are obviously drinking their kool-aid. It is only common sense you know, it isn't complicated. I don;t condone or agree with theft, and/or software piracy, but to say downloading an unregistered software demo that cannot be used to the fullest extent unless you pay for a license is the same as shoplifting, you are living in a dreamworld. It is not the same at all.. especially if it is for personal use only and you are not using it to profit (make money in a business, etc). even though people do that all the time I am sure and think nothing of it.


Now downloading a pirated edition of say, an OS, then making it look like a real copy, then selling it to someone.. that is theft, that should be punished the same as shoplifting.

I understand sticking up for the rights of software devs, but you have to use common sense, and you have to realize you are in the real world, where you can't control everyone like you would be able to in someplace like Iraq before the fall of Saddam, or maybe Nazi Germany.. etc..

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The_Neon_Cowboy

Anyways we are getting off topic.......
in short intoversion's efforts are and will be totally fruitless
and pintless short of free advertiseing via headlines

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YAYitsAndrew

The "soft"ware argument is not valid. You do not pay only for the cost of producing something. We've been over this. Apple does not pay 200 dollars to produce a nano. It costs them much less and then they charge you on top of that.

Why? Because you aren't just buying a collection of physical materials arranged in some way. You are buying support, for one. In apple's case this may mean replacing your shitty battery when it dies in two months. In software it may mean a patch in two months that fixes the game balance.

There is some cost associated with stamping the cds, printing the books and boxes, and shipping them out. Software also advertises just like any other product does. There are COSTS associated with making and releasing and maintaining software. Someone has to pay for that. I'm not the one missing from the real world, you are.

It doesn't matter that a piece of software's bits can be copied for free. Each purchase is still a commitment to the person who purchased it just like with any other goods or service.

People steal software because they can get away with it. None of you steal your shirts from Old Navy. You know better. The order of how you think is wrong. You do not steal software because of all the things you've mentioned before, you steal software because it's easy, saves you money, and you get away with it every time. Everything else you spew is just justification so that you can get to sleep at night because deep down you know what you're doing is wrong no matter how you twist the rules.

I've actually had a high school kid visiting my college play a game I made, then tell me to my face that he would steal it when it came out. You people are hopeless.

__________________
"It is because the resistance to paying for copyrighted material, although often characterized as arising from a supposed technical burden or principled concern for the public interest, arises rather from exactly the same segment of the brain that is dominant in shoplifters."
- Mark Helprin, Digital Barbarism
In other words, it's never okay to steal even if you think you have a good reason!

www.yayitsandrew.com

>GSXR<mrbusa

it is fair to say that all this is true about alot of people who use pirated software.BUT...
take my reasoning for example,i used to buy everything retail and would never even consider using something that wasnt mine or that i didnt purchase.then something changed in the way digital content was being manufactured and promoted.i believe that companies started spending more time and money on the promotion and hype of a product than they did on making it.just like the movie and music industry started doing.the reason they are doing that is the maker of the software,movie,or album, know that once you open there product then it is yours.you would be lucky to even get a replacment of a dvd or cd that a app came on even if it was broke right out of the box.now with that said,i try everything before i buy it.even if there is a demo i still am not convinced until i try the whole version of what i am loooking to purchase.then if i really like it i buy the legal copy.we all know how decievious companies are and they deserve everything that is going on in the p2p world.the public has been bullied and overcharged for so long that we are fed up.why do you think that most game makers are pretty much dropping support for there games within a few months of the next shopping season,they is no money in making fixes or q/a.

Zardon

I love bittorent and p2p to be honest, it keeps public focus away from the really good downloading mediums.

YAYitsAndrew

It's just another justification. I don't know much about digital cameras and I'm looking to buy one. I can't very well just start using one and then buy it later if I like it. I have to read reviews from trusted sources just like I have to do with software.

If I want to legally try games, there are other avenues. Gamefly doesn't have a PC service but you can rent any console game from them. If you like it, just go to the website and click that you want to keep it and they'll ship you out the box and manual. Better yet, the price will only be 42 bucks on a 50 dollar game so you're not out any money for trying the full version.

Netflix is the same way for movies.

Yahoo music unlimited lets me listen to any song in their service for a flat monthly fee. I can try cds this way and if I ever stop using the service or if yahoo stops carrying a CD, I'll go out and buy that one if I liked it. I'm looking to buy Fluke's Risotto cd actually since they stopped carrying it and I love it.

Advertising isn't any less scheming than it was ten years ago. Products aren't any worse off. Well, they sometimes are, but that's because of the increase in demand and difficulty in releasing a good title. It's not because these companies want to take every dollar they can squeeze from you. They want you to love them and love their hard work and then come back for more.

__________________
"It is because the resistance to paying for copyrighted material, although often characterized as arising from a supposed technical burden or principled concern for the public interest, arises rather from exactly the same segment of the brain that is dominant in shoplifters."
- Mark Helprin, Digital Barbarism
In other words, it's never okay to steal even if you think you have a good reason!

www.yayitsandrew.com

Necrosis

People do steal a lot of other things too, and imagine there is more things stolen statistically than software. You bet your ass if a truck over turned full of Old Navy stuff people would be picking up boxes off the highway. Secondly you are not going to win over any one, nor have you won over any one with your arguments. Deep down no one really cares. It's up to each person to decide what is right or wrong for them not you. What about all those games that no longer offer support? The fact of the matter is people buy more software than they steal. I'd rather have some one eventually buy my product than to never buy it. Never mind the fact that after a few months just about every game's price is greatly reduced? Hmm, why is that? That really doesn't happen with any thing else...why would that be? Any way it's not a question of right, and wrong it's the lesser of two evils. It’s called making some thing that is worth the consumer dollars. Just remember they are your customers, and don’t owe you a damn thing. Make it worth our hard earned cash.

YAYitsAndrew

You'd have a hard time proving that either way since there's no accurate measurement of software stolen (because you don't know the intention of the person downloading it). A lot of people who steal photoshop have no need for photoshop, will never use it to its full potential, and have no intention of ever buying it. These are the people who think it's too expensive. They forget it isn't a product for them it's a product for people making a living on graphic design. It's a business tool. How do you measure these people?

I don't think no one is listening. Thousands of people are reading these forums every day. Just because someone didn't reply and say "you make some good points" doesn't mean people aren't listening. It's an education issue. It's really easy to find support for the pirates on the internet. The culture makes anyone else out to be the bad guy. But I believe it's important to hear both sides of an argument and make your own decisions, so I'm being the other side of the argument.

The problem isn't making the product worth your money, it's competing with the same exact product that can be easily obtained for free by using p2p. The game is already worth your money. Ten years ago it wasn't uncommon to see super nintendo rpgs selling for 70-80 dollars. Now games launch new for 20, like Katamari Damacy. The standard game is still 50 dollars, although that may change. The games have gotten better, require more work, yet the price has been going down. There are even some games that don't use a traditional pay system. Downloading the game is free, maybe there's even some degree of unlimited free content. But then you can pay a subscription fee or buy game money and further your experience at your own spending rate. Sounds like the industry is respecting the consumer's wishes pretty well. The real question is, do consumers respect the game makers?

__________________
"It is because the resistance to paying for copyrighted material, although often characterized as arising from a supposed technical burden or principled concern for the public interest, arises rather from exactly the same segment of the brain that is dominant in shoplifters."
- Mark Helprin, Digital Barbarism
In other words, it's never okay to steal even if you think you have a good reason!

www.yayitsandrew.com

BWX

Like you have never downloaded one song, and have never downloaded one piece of software.

Hypocrisy at it's finest.

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Sandok

Andrew, this is going soooo offtopic with ya, as usual If you want, make a subject about the piracry issue (again) but this is a news post, should sorta stay that methinks...

BWX

Well yeah as mentioned I think it is nothing more than a publicity stunt..

I guess it worked?

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YAYitsAndrew

I think a cardboard tube has enough brains to see through that troll bait. Keep your ad hominem attacks out of arguments with me. They don't invalidate my argument in the least. And I don't have any stolen software or music on my computer. Well, maybe an mp3 or two from allofmp3 but I don't use them anymore.

As per mod request, discussion is over.

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"It is because the resistance to paying for copyrighted material, although often characterized as arising from a supposed technical burden or principled concern for the public interest, arises rather from exactly the same segment of the brain that is dominant in shoplifters."
- Mark Helprin, Digital Barbarism
In other words, it's never okay to steal even if you think you have a good reason!

www.yayitsandrew.com

MIG-31

In all honesty and in due respect to the news articles posted are aimed to be informative.All replies are appreciated,but it's not ggod to see articles go downhill.

Two main reasons i'm closing this thread is:

A) It's going offtopic rapidly.

B) I'm aiming to reduce the fact this thread could well turn into a FWZ....

If you have anything to add to the argument can they be continued via pm please.

Closed.

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Zardon

Also I would like to add, that being a gold member on this site is meant to show the public that you guys are the cream of the cream. Lately this certainly isn't the case. There is a difference between having a debate in a mature manner and getting into a pissing match on the forums.

I would hope by now that I wouldn't need to resort to public warnings but I dont see what choice I have. Im disappointed.