Vikingod

Source: DailyTech
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When it comes to the Windows Vista, Microsoft is changing a long-standing tradition when it comes to upgrading from a previous version of Windows. No longer will popping in a disc of a previous version of Windows during setup satisfy the people in Redmond when using an upgrade CD.

For example, when performing a clean install of Windows XP Professional using an upgrade CD, users would run through the normal setup routine until prompted to insert a previous version of Windows. A user could pop in a Windows 98 or Windows 2000 CD for upgrade compliance and then the setup routine would move along as usual.

Microsoft has cut out this process for Windows Vista and forces users who buy an upgrade CD to actually have a valid install of Windows XP Home or Professional on their machines before upgrading.

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pr0digal jenius

that's stupid...what if your machine goes belly up?


Why not just make them register both the XP and the vista serial within 30 days and check both for validity?


*smacks head*
we've got morons on our team

Sonata

Seems like Micro$oft idea to make people hate the process so that they spend more money to purchase a full version and not an upgrade. I really hope it causes at least a few people to start using Linux.

mike2h

yep!

great idea pj. u should sell it to the idiots at ms.

sonata, that is exactly what they r hoping for. think it is silly as it will slow down the spread of vista.

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DudeBoyz

Another reason to HATE that lame company! GRRRR!

They are just SOOOO awful.

Hey, if you go and buy an OEM copy, is that a full install and not an upgrade?

No wonder people wanna keep putting the shaft to Microsoft - it's self defense!

Necrosis

Hmm..I "sorta" understand needing genuine copy of XP installed prior to installation. However, I think it should work by checking that install but from then on you should be able to do a clean install with the key you're since your older OS is part of that key. I paid for a full legit version of XP x64, and have used it on two installs. If I'm going to lose it's license then I shouldn't have to re-install it again to load Vista.

Tipstaff

I'm gonna hate myself for doing this, but I see the reason why MS has gone this route. The upgrade path has always been one of the largest open doors to their OS when it came to grey side of piracy. All you needed was a CD that had a valid OS on it, even a copy, and you were good to go. So, a person that never bought an OS before could get a copy of one, and use that for validation. This pretty much closes that door... at least part of the way.

However, there were other routes they could have taken. Having a double validation, one of the previous OS along with Vistas activation could have worked. Say have the XP validation be by phone, and then Vistas be done as normal. Or have the installer require both CDKeys be inputed, and then both be validated when it comes time to do so.

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DudeBoyz

I do NOT mind validation at all. But I prefer it when all you had to do was insert your old Windows CD into the drive, it would check and verify it, then do a fresh install.

I do not like that they require that you actually install XP on the hard drive and then force you to install Vista over top of that.

Clean installs are ALWAYS best, imo, because you don't have any of those odd legacy drivers, settings, config files, etc. getting in the way.

Zeph

It's a full install, and what I plan on doing should I have another machine I decide to put Vista on.

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DudeBoyz

Then I think buying a separate OEM version might just be the best option for folks, even if it's not technically as "legal" as Microsoft might want. If I can buy an OEM copy and all I have to do is purchase some 99 cent PS/2 to USB adapter to qualify as a "bundle", I'm not going to feel bad about it.

Microsoft wonders why people work so hard to circumvent their "wishes"? It's because of crap like this.

PangingJr

i don't have a Vista upgrade CD (or DVD?) yet, however, i think i just need to make sure i have plenty space on the XP's partition for the Vista's image to be offloaded and decompressed, then i would run the Vista's setup from within Windows XP (of course it must be a valid install of XP) and then instead of choosing to upgrade install*, i would choose to do a clean install*, then i think the setup program will basically decompressing a preinstalled version of Vista from within its DVD onto the partition.
now, if i was to choose to do an upgrade install during the first phase of the setup, then the Vista's setup program will also putting a clean install of Vista onto the partition and then migrating my XP settings into Vista.

DudeBoyz

Lotta hoops to jump through, man.

I'd just rather it go back to the old way. I don't want Windows XP screwing up my Vista settings somehow, especially the registry. I would really rather have a totally clean registry without any legacy junk in it.

PangingJr

i am not sure i know what you mean. explain to me why the old Windows settings and registry have to do with a new Vista setup?

DudeBoyz

Vista will not remove old registry keys specific to XP, for example, correct?

I guess I'm lamenting the fact that there will indeed be remnants of the XP install in place. Old DLL files, etc. I would prefer that NO leftover bits and pieces of a previous install be present - absolutely none. Why should I have to compromise the potential efficiency and maybe even stability just so Microsoft can get their pound of flesh in the form of additional dollars.

I'm too jaded perhaps. I grow so weary of the crap that Microsoft pulls, this just being another one in a long line of crap.

If Apple would just release OS X for PC's, perhaps things would change. But it seems nothing short of a minor miracle is going to make Microsoft alter their ways.

PangingJr

i'd just remove the Windows.OLD folder when i'm sure that i don't want any files in the folder any more, and this is what i did with all the Vista's builds that i've been beta testing them, thay are about 10 builds, or 5 builds when counting both x86 and x64 builds simultaneously.
i'm expecting and hoping that the final upgrade version of Vista's will still allow me to do the same. i have not yet checked for any info about the upgrade lic. and their prices, however if they are available and are quite cheaper than the full versions then i will probably try the upgrade ones first.

more info on the Windows.OLD folder - http://support.microsoft.com/kb/927522

DudeBoyz

We'll see. But for this and many other reasons, I'm not going to Vista until I'm absolutely forced to, which I think will be no earlier than 2009 - or maybe 2014 if that extension also means they will still be putting out security fixes and the like.

PangingJr

hmm, who forces you? lol i think nobody is going to force you to use Vista but yourself.

DudeBoyz

When Microsoft stops certifying drivers for hardware, when they refused to release any security fixes and when they pressure app writers to not support installation on XP, that is basically forcing you by making it very hard to maintain a secure, functional system that is compatible with clients, etc.

PangingJr

DudeBoyz, ok, lol, if it wasn't that it would be something else, you can keep accusing Microsoft of that and that and that all you like.
i'm not going to argue with you on your views and complaint about Microsoft's. you can count me out, i probably know too little about this stuff, or just don't care, i guess.

Matth

When you look at the Vista versus XP driver results for gaming, Vista has a fair way to go - until DX10 begins to bite, or until Vista/DX9 improves, it looks like gamers would be better served by XP.

Just depends, but this time, I'm guessing the queues won't match those for 95 - "Start me up" or XP. It probably does cement the obsolescence of anything before XP though, with application support for 98 and XP phasing over into support for XP and Vista.

Operating system obsolescence seem to be driven more by application and hardware support, than anything Microsoft does.
I know people still using Win95 OSR2, to so the same stuff they've always done - their computer is an "appliance". Reminds me, must give them a stern reminder about antivirus, and maybe see about getting them to switch from IE/OE to Opera or Firefox/Thunderbird - or to take advantage of the fact that a really bottom-end system now, is 10 times the machine they currently have - and even if it only came with Vista basic, I doubt that would bother them.

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calidan

Does anyone know if XP has to be activated before an upgrade is performed? If it doesn't, then this will be the way to get around have a legit copy of XP.

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DudeBoyz

I think you can tell it to activate later, but I'm not sure. Someone will find a way around it perhaps, and then it will get all over the net and we'll learn it.

Tipstaff

I've been reading up on this crap all day...

XP needs to be activated before you can install Vista Upgrade. What I can tell is that Vista shifts the XP license over to that of a Vista license for activation purposes. From that point on it's a Vista license. If you decide you hate Vista, and reintall XP, you will have to call Microsoft to activate XP thereby shifting that license back to being an XP license.

I'm also starting to see more and more references that mention that the Vista Upgrade versions will allow for a clean install, but it's done a little differently. Yes, you have to have a valid OS installed (that being activated), and you have to run the upgrade from within XP, but once Vista validates the installed OS it will allow you to do a clean install by formating/repartitioning the drive (through the Advanced Options of the partition section of the installer).

Guess I'll just have to go grab one to try out.

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DudeBoyz

I would really appreciate it if you could follow up on that.

If so, then it may not be as bad as I originally thought based on what I read.

Good luck with it

Tipstaff

BTW, 2 things of interest: 1) Microsoft still maintains that you can upgrade from Windows 2000, but it requires a clean install as Vista doesn't support an "upgrade-in place" method for it. And 2):

"If you are currently using Windows 2000 Professional or Windows XP Professional x64, you are eligible for an upgrade copy to a corresponding or better edition of Windows Vista, but a clean install is required.

Upgrade copies are not available for versions of Windows earlier than Windows 2000. These earlier versions of Windows require you to install a full copy of Windows Vista."

This is off their "Buy or Upgrade? - Upgrade Paths" page HERE.

Guess we'll see.

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pr0digal jenius

so i have no upgrade options from 2003 enterprise server?
Comeon "Longhorn Server"


Something about slapping "server" on the end of the name makes M$ try harder on the stability thing, I swear...2003 is unkillable

Necrosis

It seems there is a work around.


http://www.windowsitpro.com/Article/...5011.html?Ad=1

BlueMak

What if you have installed an Upgrade version of XP?

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DudeBoyz

Wacky. Microsoft is so inconsistent and annoying. They should have just left it as a simple media confirmation and moved on.

And thanks for that work around info:

1. Boot with the Windows Vista Upgrade DVD.
2. Click "Install Now."
3. Do not enter a Product Key When prompted.
4. When prompted, select the Vista product edition that you do have.
6. Install Vista normally.
7. Once the install is complete, restart the DVD-based Setup from within Windows Vista. Perform an in-place upgrade.
8. Enter your Product Key when prompted.

Looks good for a Windows Vista Clean Install Workaround

I hope folks benefit from it

Necrosis

It's pretty obvious why they didn't. However, I still think once you upgrade it should generate a new key. You then could use that new call to install it from scratch. I think that would be the fairest way to do it.