Necrosis

Okay so I was what a year off? No I don't have any issues with the OS but my issue is people keep treating the updates like a new OS when it's not. I guess if I have an issue with this (not really related to the article) is you can say the same thing about Linux (which there are quite a few more flavors than OSX). I found it hard to spend that much money just for an OS when I have experienced Linux. Why pay all that money when for myself to have a similar experience for really at no cost except hardware?

Okay but still I would love to find a macbook at the same or similar price point of the HP laptop I bought November of last year. Which is pretty much a pipe dream unless I find one some one is wanting to un-load pretty quick. Why does Macs cost more, read below.

Um, sorry guys I would rather put that extra money in the hardware.

Zardon

I am not sure the point you are making here to be honest. OSX comes with all new macintosh machines. You can buy OSX here standalone for £100. Windows Vista Ultimate is around £150. I don't think it resembles or acts like any distro of Linux ive used. Certainly no more than you could say in a comparison with Vista or XP.


Well isn't this pretty obvious man? I mean its a little like expecting a ferrari to cost the same price as a standard family convertible. Its no different than an Alienware or something exquisite like the asus VX3 lamborgini. You do get what you pay for however IMO. Ive seen toshiba's here pretty well kitted out for £500. Its a completely different market.

Again what do you mean? What part of the hardware do you mean? CPU? graphics or the overall package?

Lets put something to the test, subjectively speaking. A guy has two grand or so to spend on a top end laptop regardless of platform. He needs it for a general all round machine and gaming isnt his priority. He wants something "special", like an Alienware or equivalent. Something that seperates him from the masses.


CPU:
All Intel Core 2 duo 2.5ghz

Ram:
4gb DDR2 667mhz

Graphics:
Asus 9300 m 256 Ram // Macbook 8600m 512mb //Alienware 9800 M GT

Screen:
Asus 1280x800 Clearview // Macbook 1920x1200 LED // Alienware 1920x1200 clearview

Output:
Asus HDMI // Macbook Dual DVI 2560x1600 // Alienware HDMI

Connectivity:
Asus
1 x Microphone-in jack
1 x Headphone-out jack (S/PDIF)
4 x USB 2.0 ports
1 x RJ11 Modem jack for phone line
1 x RJ45 LAN Jack for LAN insert
1 x HDMI

Macbook
1 x Microphone-in jack
1 x Headphone-out jack (S/PDIF)
3 x USB 2.0 ports
1 x RJ11 Modem jack for phone line
1 x RJ45 LAN Jack for LAN insert
1 x Expresscard
1 x Dual dvi out
1x firewire 400
1x fireware 800

Alienware:
1 x Microphone-in jack
1 x Headphone-out jack (S/PDIF)
4 x USB 2.0 ports
1 x RJ11 Modem jack for phone line
1 x RJ45 LAN Jack for LAN insert
1 x HDMI

Battery Life:
Asus 1 hour on standard size, 2.5 on oversized // Macbook 4 hours // Alienware 2 hours.

Chassis:
Asus Reinforced plastics // Macbook Aluminium with light sensors to adjust backlit keyboard and screen // Alienware: Plastics with backlit keyboard.

The cost?

Asus VX3 Lamborgini £1800
Macbook Pro 17 inch £1900
Alienware Area 51 M17x £2410

You see how the macbook pro shapes up against comparible pcs? and if vista is your thing, then you can use Boot Camp or a program like Parallels to have vista running on the same desktop as OSX.

BlueMak

Mojave Black & Orange Trim
17" 1920x1200
Core 2 Duo 2.53Ghz
Geforce 9800M GTS 512GDDR3
4GB DDR3 1066Mhz
Bluetooth v2.0 module
500GB SATA II
7 in 1 card reader
Vista home premium 64
8xDVD+-RW
2.0Megapixel webcam
full 102 keyboard
expres card 54(34)
wireles intel pro 802.11a/b/n


£1734 by Kobalt

__________________

The people who are regarded as moral luminaries are those who forego ordinary pleasures themselves and find compensation in interfering with the pleasures of others(Bertrand Russell)"You go into Afghanistan, you got guys who slap women around for five years because they didn't wear a veil,You know, guys like that ain't got no manhood left anyway. So it's a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them." - Lt. Gen. James N. Mattis
This is slavery, not to speak one's thought. [Euripides-The Phoenician Women (c.411-409 B.C.)] http://www.macedonia.info/FALLACIESANDFACTS.htm Sic semper tyrannis.

Zardon

and your point is ?

BlueMak

A more powerful system than any of the above and much cheaper.

I guess my point was that Apple computers and Alienware are way overpriced for what they give in terms of specs.

You pay for the looks more than any other part in them.

Well, at least if you buy an apple you are getting a good computer, if you buy an alienware you buy an overpriced piece of junk with pretty lights.

__________________

The people who are regarded as moral luminaries are those who forego ordinary pleasures themselves and find compensation in interfering with the pleasures of others(Bertrand Russell)"You go into Afghanistan, you got guys who slap women around for five years because they didn't wear a veil,You know, guys like that ain't got no manhood left anyway. So it's a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them." - Lt. Gen. James N. Mattis
This is slavery, not to speak one's thought. [Euripides-The Phoenician Women (c.411-409 B.C.)] http://www.macedonia.info/FALLACIESANDFACTS.htm Sic semper tyrannis.

Zardon

Well of course its cheaper and "better value", this is not a thread debating that really. Kobalt/Mojave really aren't a status symbol at all, which is the point im trying to make - there are quite a few UK makers who make elite high end machines, but you couldn't tell them apart. There are some really niave comments being made in this thread which im still trying to comprehend!

Do you not get the point im making. A lot of people dont buy macintosh or alienware or high end asus or even voodoo PC to get the best value for money. they do it for the build quality, the materials used and the "status" this brings with it.

I really am not trying to debate that Apple are the best value for money by any stretch of the imagination, my point is merely that for the comparible market they are in, they actually are reasonably competitive.

BlueMak

Hey, I agree with what you are saying, apart from where you say that an alienware system is known for its quality.
It's like buying a gold plated mouse. It's not going to work as good as your Logitech G9, but damn, you have a gold plated mouse!


EDIT: ok you didn't actualy say it is, just that people buy it because they believe it is.

__________________

The people who are regarded as moral luminaries are those who forego ordinary pleasures themselves and find compensation in interfering with the pleasures of others(Bertrand Russell)"You go into Afghanistan, you got guys who slap women around for five years because they didn't wear a veil,You know, guys like that ain't got no manhood left anyway. So it's a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them." - Lt. Gen. James N. Mattis
This is slavery, not to speak one's thought. [Euripides-The Phoenician Women (c.411-409 B.C.)] http://www.macedonia.info/FALLACIESANDFACTS.htm Sic semper tyrannis.

Zardon

Hell I dont expect anyone on DH to start suddenly loving macintosh because I like their products. but even if what im saying reaches a small part of someones brain and they become more open minded because of it ill be happy.

I have more computers in this house than I would like to admit, and there are always a few macs in the mix. I like to keep my options open.

Granted my "budget" isn't like a normal PC user so its a little unfair of me to say £1900 isnt a big investment for someone, but I do think they are worth it at the end of the day, their build quality is amazing.

Judas

theres no denieing that apple, in thier current market, is superior in thier design. It's kinda like having those toughbooks from panasonic.. designed to take a beating.. vs the flimsy easily destructable books we've got from toshiba and the like. While they are all promoteing the stronger tougher little machines, there will forever be the cheap market, where the more you might be able to stuff into the machine for the dollar, still comes at the cost of quality over quantity.

someone "could" build a machine be it laptop or desktop, desktop it easier for more to grasp likely, anyways build a machine cheaper then the cheapest dell or hp or whatever bundled deal they've got now..... but really, who's going to want to use those low quality parts in thier machines...... no doubt someone on a sevearly limited budget might not have a choice specially if they don't intend to do anything truly productive on it. A machine, build with "identical" specs compared will always cost more if your going to use not necessarily TOP end parts, but just about as good as possible, with room to breath. Just look at the PSUs used in some of those machines, 4amps on the 12v rail, common, that's just asking for problems. That's of course a worse case senario.. but that's what came with a Sony Vaio Desktop, HP didn't do any better with thier 6amp 12v rail psu used in one of thier pavilions. And these were those mini machines either.



Either way, look at the technical information of the macbooks, and we can pretty much guarantee that apple isn't going to drop the ball in the specific components and thier quality standards, they may be slower, but damn, they'll likely be able to take a beating and last a hell of alot longer.

__________________

Necrosis

Linux is just as secure as OSX, and it's different too, plus free. Last time I checked I couldn't install OSX on my PC unless I do illegally. Never mind the reason I never upgraded from 10.3 on the G4 because the new versions bogged it down. Sure sounds like the issue people complained about w/ Vista.

I know my ferrari will have totally different internals compared to the family four door station wagon.

See there is the problem the high end comparison which for myself is moot. I don't want to spend that much on some thing I just use just for regular desktop applications. The part in bold about is the probably the best reason for purchasing such a product, it's more of a statement than a purchase for productivity. The only time that is not is the case is when you need that specific environment for a specific application like Pro Tools or Final Cut.

Zardon

what a monumental waste of time, thread is closed. incidentally just before I confine this to the depths of "most wasted debate ever on DH" - if your HP has a 1920x1200 LED screen, ambient light sensors, an aluminium chassis as well as all the other goodies ive mentioned then HP are certainly onto a winner especially if its a fraction of the price. If not, then the family station wagon analogy still stands.

this however is like debating tech with a bunch of teenage pc oriented gamers in our local college.