Has online piracy reached a tipping point?

Iria · Apr 19, 2009, 08:57 PM

For years, digital technology and the Internet have provided a virtual buffet of digital video, music, news, and other content from which millions have feasted for free.

Whether it be downloading movies illegally found with the help of the Pirate Bay, ripping a movie rental from Netlix to a computer hard drive, republishing an unauthorized copy of a news photograph to the Web, or sharing music on peer-to-peer services, the people who create this content have begun to send a message: "no more free lunches."
___________
Source: Digital Media

3FUN · Apr 19, 2009, 09:36 PM

No. Not at all

comp_ali · Apr 19, 2009, 09:45 PM

Jack Black >>> Go to hell , I even don't bother download your movies.

Judas · Apr 20, 2009, 12:36 AM

no change... never will not unless the prices continue there trend of increasing and the DRM increases to the stupidity of recent popular titles

Ubisofts Prince of Persia is a win...

BlueMak · Apr 20, 2009, 12:44 AM

They need to lower the prices and remove DRM, movies, games, whatever. Yes, more people will "pirate" them, but more people will buy them too. You can't have new games for £50 and £40 and even £30 and expect people to always buy them in droves and when some of them decide to not buy the game and instead get it for free, the problem is not piracy or torrents or anything like that, the problem is the too high price and that someone who gets it for free has not only saved money but also trouble without requiring disc in or requiring a server to play his single player game, etc.
And at least in games, where at least in the past you were getting something more tangible for your money, now you are lucky if you get a leaflet saying how to install the game, or if you buy from a download only source, you don't even get that. So when someone is considering to buy a game has the following
Buy a legal copy=legal+too much money+not actualy owning your copy. Not legal= not legal +free+you actualy own your copy.
Tough decision for most people I am sure.

**dj_stick** · Apr 20, 2009, 01:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueMak

And at least in games, where at least in the past you were getting something more tangible for your money, now you are lucky if you get a leaflet saying how to install the game, or if you buy from a download only source, you don't even get that. So when someone is considering to buy a game has the following
Buy a legal copy=legal+too much money+not actualy owning your copy. Not legal= not legal +free+you actualy own your copy.
Tough decision for most people I am sure.

I think most people forget, or don't even realise is, that you don't own the game or it's content, only a license to play it

BlueMak · Apr 20, 2009, 03:11 AM

Thus you pirate the game and you own it. Problem solved....see what's wrong with the way things work?

procupine14 · Apr 20, 2009, 03:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueMak

Thus you pirate the game and you own it. Problem solved....see what's wrong with the way things work?

Yeah I hear you on that. It goes for movies too if you think about it. I kinda feel justified paying a ridiculous amount of money to watch a movie in theaters and then going home and downloading it for free. Didn't i just pay the price of your stupid DVD to see it once?

Also with games yeah why bother getting a game that you must download from the net after buying it. So you don't have a real disk and what happens if your computer dies? some cases you have to rebuy the game.

That doesn't seem very fair.

**dj_stick** · Apr 20, 2009, 04:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueMak

Thus you pirate the game and you own it. Problem solved....see what's wrong with the way things work?

no, then you don't own anything at all

the thing that most people miss is that when you purchase media, whether it be music, movies or games, you DO NOT own product, you do not own the rights to it, they belong to the copyright owner, usually the publisher/label

rather, what you purchase is a license to use that media freely for personal use, that's it.

Judas · Apr 20, 2009, 04:17 AM

question.. how are people able to rent out movies and games?

**dj_stick** · Apr 20, 2009, 04:22 AM

rental stores are sold a license (usually considerably more expensive than a normal one) to rent out their products

BlueMak · Apr 20, 2009, 04:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dj_stick

no, then you don't own anything at all

the thing that most people miss is that when you purchase media, whether it be music, movies or games, you DO NOT own product, you do not own the rights to it, they belong to the copyright owner, usually the publisher/label

rather, what you purchase is a license to use that media freely for personal use, that's it.

That was my point! People feel they should be the owners of the film or game they just paid money for, but they don't get it, even more now days with more and more restrictive DRM. People don't like it and more people than usual end up getting a pirated version of the game so that they can actualy own it as they see it should be in the first place.

Judas · Apr 20, 2009, 04:36 AM

Thing is.... i am renting out blu-ray movies and xbox360 games....

**dj_stick** · Apr 20, 2009, 04:43 AM

I'm not saying I agree with DRM, I don't, but I definately do not agree with piracy. Pirating because of DRM is pure bullsh*t though

When you purchase a DVD or game, you've got the right/license, for personal or family use. You do NOT have the right to show it publicly, give out to friends, rent or sell etc.

Judas, if you get audited, you're f*cked - the license you purchased for those movies/games prohibits you from renting them out

Judas · Apr 20, 2009, 04:59 AM

The thing is... i've PHONED around to various government as well as legal offices asking what or how i go about doing this and all i've gotten for an answer is "there is no liecences to get" or "It's covered under your business license"

I get auditied frequently due to my age and owning a business. None of the personel have complained or warned me.....

ET3D · Apr 20, 2009, 05:02 AM

dj_stick, I agree about piracy, but I think you're not getting the point that a major part of the problem is the license. People want to own what they buy. They want to be able to lend and resell. And that's actually perfectly normal behaviour that doesn't break copyright, far as I understand it (it's been going on with books for centuries). Public display is, but few people want that. It's annoying to have a license that is more restrictive.

Piracy is bad, but with ownership rights getting more and more limited, it will become even more appealing. I want my rights the way they were. I want to be able to lend my books, I want to be able to record a TV show to watch it later, and I want to be able to skip the commercials and not have some stupid technology designed to prevent me from doing so. Getting piled with more and more licensing and technological limitations does nothing to encourage me to stay within them.

I'm saying this as someone who isn't using anything pirated. I'm not planning to, either. But I certainly have broken some licenses.

Judas · Apr 20, 2009, 05:09 AM

actually i use pirated games simply because the DRM or copy preventitive is preventing me from using the official game..

so i've legally bought the game... and can't play it... therefore forcing me to use ilegal means to do what i orginally paid for...

so how in the world does that make sense?

BlueMak · Apr 20, 2009, 05:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ET3D

dj_stick, I agree about piracy, but I think you're not getting the point that a major part of the problem is the license. People want to own what they buy. They want to be able to lend and resell. And that's actually perfectly normal behaviour that doesn't break copyright, far as I understand it (it's been going on with books for centuries). Public display is, but few people want that. It's annoying to have a license that is more restrictive.

Piracy is bad, but with ownership rights getting more and more limited, it will become even more appealing. I want my rights the way they were. I want to be able to lend my books, I want to be able to record a TV show to watch it later, and I want to be able to skip the commercials and not have some stupid technology designed to prevent me from doing so. Getting piled with more and more licensing and technological limitations does nothing to encourage me to stay within them.

I'm saying this as someone who isn't using anything pirated. I'm not planning to, either. But I certainly have broken some licenses.

Exactly, no one is saying that piracy is good or should be done. It goes into the human psyche. We want to own things. DRM stop us from doing that. DRM is doomed to fail, piracy is destined to grow as long as the companies fighting the human nature.

BlueMak · Apr 20, 2009, 05:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Judas

actually i use pirated games simply because the DRM or copy preventitive is preventing me from using the official game..

so i've legally bought the game... and can't play it... therefore forcing me to use ilegal means to do what i orginally paid for...

so how in the world does that make sense?

yes, and many people who end up like this start to think, what is the point, "I might as well just use illegal means".

PH3N0M · Apr 20, 2009, 05:27 AM

I'll pirate a game before I'll buy it. The reason being, if I go out and drop $50+ and the game sucks, I'm going to be sorely pissed off because I can't return it and get my money back. If I download it and it sucks, I just uninstall and delete.

Judas · Apr 20, 2009, 05:28 AM

na i don't go that far...

However i will download a game.... or program.. trial it.... without limitations... and then purchase the game if it passes.. or wipe if off the machine if not

LeanWolf · Apr 20, 2009, 10:02 AM

i wonder if buying it after illegally 'trialing' it would help you in a court case..

not that i believe that most people who claim to do that actually do it..

dawgXdenta · Apr 20, 2009, 11:45 AM

A man earns Cr$1000 i.e crap dollars. He is expected to pay electricity, water, food ..... end of the month he is left with Cr$100. Do you think he will
a. downlaoad a game costing Cr$450 , music cd for Cr$150, Movie DVD for Cr$120

When all he has left is Cr$100......

What do you think will happen.

I DONT condone free downloads but with "capitalism" the way it is, people will find cheaper shortcuts.

So long as one bunch of people are "live large" whereas others barely scrape a living piracy arguments become redundant.

Cow_160483 · Apr 20, 2009, 11:46 AM

A contagious topic to say the least but I 've got this to say on the matter: if the entertainment industry odes not want piracy to become prevalent then they need to do something about DRM and the rights of an individual to re-sell whatever he has purchased .

"DRM is doomed to fail"

YAYitsAndrew · Apr 20, 2009, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dawgXdenta

A man earns Cr$1000 i.e crap dollars. He is expected to pay electricity, water, food ..... end of the month he is left with Cr$100. Do you think he will
a. downlaoad a game costing Cr$450 , music cd for Cr$150, Movie DVD for Cr$120

When all he has left is Cr$100......

What do you think will happen.

Why exactly does this man feel like he deserves to buy things clearly outside of his means? How much did the computer cost if the game is CR$450? Six months of salary? How did he even save up that much money CR$100 at a time? And if he spent so long saving, why'd he buy a computer with the money instead of an actual solution to his problem like an education and a better job? It sounds like a computer is just going to send his family deeper into debt. You start to wonder if this man is poor for a reason... maybe a lack in cognitive power?

A man earns USD$6000. He is expected to pay electricity, water, food ..... end of the month he is left with USD$2000. Do you think he will
a. buy a ferrari for USD$100,000 , 60" lcd tv for USD$4000, summer home for USD$800,000

That's what your argument looks like.

YAYitsAndrew · Apr 20, 2009, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ET3D

Piracy is bad, but with ownership rights getting more and more limited, it will become even more appealing. I want my rights the way they were. I want to be able to lend my books, I want to be able to record a TV show to watch it later, and I want to be able to skip the commercials and not have some stupid technology designed to prevent me from doing so. Getting piled with more and more licensing and technological limitations does nothing to encourage me to stay within them.

I'm saying this as someone who isn't using anything pirated. I'm not planning to, either. But I certainly have broken some licenses.

You can lend your books out to your friends no problem. Since it's only a single physical copy that you have no means of reproducing, there's no large-scale financial loss to the publisher. DVRs still let you record TV and fast forward through commercials, so leave the cynicism at the door. If you want to "own" TV episodes the same way you own a physical copy of a book, then wait for the DVD to be released and pass the DVD to your friend. Or download the episode onto your ipod and lend that to your friend.

There's no loss of freedom taking place. Licenses are as strict as they need to be to enforce the copyright of the product. All the physical things we used to buy still work the same way. Just because something is digital doesn't mean it's the same as the real world product. If you bought a PDF of a book from me you could make copies of it and send it out to everybody you know on the internet without costing a dime. Doing the same thing with a real book means you have a printing press in your house, know a way to steal thousands of dollars in paper and ink, and can ship all those books out for free.

So in light of all that are you still saying a real paperback book and a PDF of the same book should be treated equally? If so, please never start a publishing business because it would be a shame for it to go out of business so quickly.

ET3D · Apr 20, 2009, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dawgXdenta

So long as one bunch of people are "live large" whereas others barely scrape a living piracy arguments become redundant.

Entitlement is one of the most common excuses for piracy. You're saying that because you can't afford something and someone else can, then you're entitled to get it for free. That's bullshit.

It's even more bullshit because it's not as if you can't spend all your time gaming for little money. Sure, you won't play the latest best sellers, but it's possible to play quite a few games for no money at all. It's possible to play older games, even not very old, for little money. For example, I recently bought Tomb Raider: Anniversary on Steam for $5 and Assassin's Creed for $10.

I buy most of my media (games, movies, books) on sale. I get some for free (free e-books, online movies, ...; well, I do have a TV with cable now because of my wife, so most movies I watch are from that). I don't get the newest stuff when it's released, and I don't mind doing some work to find legal means of getting stuff. I download demos when I can before buying the games.

Entitlement is one of the lamest excuses for piracy.

YAYitsAndrew · Apr 20, 2009, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PH3N0M

I'll pirate a game before I'll buy it. The reason being, if I go out and drop $50+ and the game sucks, I'm going to be sorely pissed off because I can't return it and get my money back. If I download it and it sucks, I just uninstall and delete.

The problem here is, this doesn't actually happen. Well, maybe you're an exception, so please take no personal offense. But here is what really happens to the typical person who claims they just play to see if the game sucks before buying it.

You pirate a game and play it. You spend all afternoon playing the single player missions and are having a good time. The next day you play it as much as you can and make it a good way through the remaining single player missions. Now the moment of truth: should you go out and spend $50 on the game?

You start to figure that you've already seen most of what the SP missions have to offer. What are the rest of the levels going to be like? By this time you can probably imagine them. They don't seem to be that different from the ones you already played and you could probably read the rest of the plot on gamefaqs. Is there a multiplayer mode? Nope! "Man, this game really sucks!" There's no way you would have spent $50 dollars on a turd like this. Your pirate-before-buy method has been validated and will be used again in the future.

So where is this reasoning wrong? For one, you played the game all afternoon. You liked it enough then to play it some more the next day. So clearly, the game is engaging enough for you. You were into the plot enough to read its resolution on gamefaqs. Why did you really decide that the game sucks? You didn't. You decided that you've already seen what the game has to offer and it's not worth $50 dollars for the last 4 levels and plot, and there's no multiplayer. Anything you put in this situation is going to resolve the same way. Would you rather eat 80% of a gourmet meal for free or have 100% for full price? It boils down to, do you want to pay 100% price for 20% product. That's not fair when there doesn't actually exist an 80% product. You made it up by pirating the game and the game makers are the ones who have to suffer as a result.

The other angle to the defense is that it helps you spot a legitimate turd without spending any money. If you pirate and play a game for 10 minutes and decide it sucks, you validate the pirate-before-buy method. This is wrong, too. Reviews of games are very good for spotting turds a mile away. If the average score from the major reviewers is 5 or lower you're probably running away at full speed. After that it gets a little trickier. You have to read the reviews and see if you like what you read.

In all my years of buying games have I ever been misled by a review? Yeah, a few times. But the number of games where that happened (the last one I can remember is Mischief Makers for the N64 when I was in 8th grade) doesn't even come close to comparing to the number of games I've bought in the past 11 years. I'd say the read-reviews-before-buy method is very good at doing exactly what the pirate-before-buy method claims to do, and it isn't illegal and it doesn't destroy the video game industry!

ET3D · Apr 20, 2009, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YAYitsAndrew

You can lend your books out to your friends no problem. Since it's only a single physical copy that you have no means of reproducing, there's no large-scale financial loss to the publisher. DVRs still let you record TV and fast forward through commercials, so leave the cynicism at the door.

Apparently you're not following the news about technologies to prevent them from doing that. I'm not cynic. What I said is based on reality.

Quote:

There's no loss of freedom taking place. Licenses are as strict as they need to be to enforce the copyright of the product.

That's bullshit. Licenses are not a means of enforcing copyright. They are distinct things. If a game requires the CD in the drive, and I lend it to a friend, that's just like a book. We can't play at the same time. The technology (DRM) is there to protect the copyright. The license, which prevents me from doing that, has nothing to do with copyright, and limits my freedom. That's why I sometimes break it.

Some rare licenses acknowledge that. For example, the license of Whole Tomato's Visual Assist X tells you specifically that it's like a book. Once you buy a license any number of people can use it on any number of computers, just not more than one at the same time.

Quote:

So in light of all that are you still saying a real paperback book and a PDF of the same book should be treated equally? If so, please never start a publishing business because it would be a shame for it to go out of business so quickly.

Yes, they should be treated equally, in terms of licensing. As I said, you're confusing DRM and licensing. A license for a game I buy could easily allow me to transfer my rights to another person. Steam, and most e-sellers, keep a record of what I've bought. Steam could easily remove my license for a game and transfer it to someone else, and it'd be as if I hadn't bought it. But it doesn't. This has nothing to do with protection, since it in no way affects the ability to play the same game by more than one person at the same time. Would it affect sales? Possibly. The licensing is obviously restrictive due to financial reasons. However, these reasons have nothing to do with piracy or copyright.

And BTW, take a look at Baen, if you want to see that you're wrong about the business. Baen publishes all its books in unencrypted formats. It also gives e-books for free. It's doing pretty decent business. I invite you to read Eric Flint's series of articles "Salvos Against Big Brother", readable for free as part of the (not DRM protected) e-magazine Baen's Universe. He has quite a lot to say on the downsides of copyright and DRM.

YAYitsAndrew · Apr 20, 2009, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ET3D

And BTW, take a look at Baen, if you want to see that you're wrong about the business. Baen publishes all its books in unencrypted formats. It also gives e-books for free. It's doing pretty decent business. I invite you to read Eric Flint's series of articles "Salvos Against Big Brother", readable for free as part of the (not DRM protected) e-magazine Baen's Universe. He has quite a lot to say on the downsides of copyright and DRM.

It becomes your case study vs mine, then. Wizards of the Coast recently pulled all its e-books for the 4th edition of Dungeons and Dragons because they were being heavily pirated. (The PDFs were digitally signed so that each purchase had its own unique PDF, but they had no DRM)

My first reaction is that many more people have actually heard of Wizards of the Coast and Dungeons and Dragons, so there's a much larger demand for the books and as a result piracy is more rampant. To put this in video game terms, Wizards of the Coast is EA Games and Baen is Stardock. You can release material free of DRM because that's your advertising angle and because you're small. If a larger company followed suit they'd be pirated into bankruptcy. Baen should maybe pay close attention to Stardock. Their recent release was completely crippled by piracy for the first few days of launch. It seems Stardock's gotten too big for the parlor tricks that worked last year.

Apr 19, 2009, 08:57 PM	#1
Iria DriverHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 7,275 Rep Power: 87	Has online piracy reached a tipping point? For years, digital technology and the Internet have provided a virtual buffet of digital video, music, news, and other content from which millions have feasted for free. Whether it be downloading movies illegally found with the help of the Pirate Bay, ripping a movie rental from Netlix to a computer hard drive, republishing an unauthorized copy of a news photograph to the Web, or sharing music on peer-to-peer services, the people who create this content have begun to send a message: "no more free lunches." ___________ Source: Digital Media

Apr 19, 2009, 09:36 PM	#2
3FUN HardwareHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Macedonia Posts: 80 Rep Power: 31 System Specs	Re: Has online piracy reached a tipping point? No. Not at all

Apr 19, 2009, 09:45 PM	#3
comp_ali Sniper Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Egypt Posts: 10,441 Rep Power: 331 System Specs	Re: Has online piracy reached a tipping point? Jack Black >>> Go to hell , I even don't bother download your movies. __________________

Apr 20, 2009, 12:44 AM	#5
BlueMak HH's Asteroids' Dominator Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Hellas->Macedonia->Thessaloniki Posts: 13,248 Rep Power: 328 System Specs	Re: Has online piracy reached a tipping point? They need to lower the prices and remove DRM, movies, games, whatever. Yes, more people will "pirate" them, but more people will buy them too. You can't have new games for £50 and £40 and even £30 and expect people to always buy them in droves and when some of them decide to not buy the game and instead get it for free, the problem is not piracy or torrents or anything like that, the problem is the too high price and that someone who gets it for free has not only saved money but also trouble without requiring disc in or requiring a server to play his single player game, etc. And at least in games, where at least in the past you were getting something more tangible for your money, now you are lucky if you get a leaflet saying how to install the game, or if you buy from a download only source, you don't even get that. So when someone is considering to buy a game has the following Buy a legal copy=legal+too much money+not actualy owning your copy. Not legal= not legal +free+you actualy own your copy. Tough decision for most people I am sure. __________________ The people who are regarded as moral luminaries are those who forego ordinary pleasures themselves and find compensation in interfering with the pleasures of others(Bertrand Russell)"You go into Afghanistan, you got guys who slap women around for five years because they didn't wear a veil,You know, guys like that ain't got no manhood left anyway. So it's a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them." - Lt. Gen. James N. Mattis This is slavery, not to speak one's thought. [Euripides-The Phoenician Women (c.411-409 B.C.)] http://www.macedonia.info/FALLACIESANDFACTS.htm *Sic semper tyrannis.*

Apr 20, 2009, 03:11 AM	#7
BlueMak HH's Asteroids' Dominator Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Hellas->Macedonia->Thessaloniki Posts: 13,248 Rep Power: 328 System Specs	Re: Has online piracy reached a tipping point? Thus you pirate the game and you own it. Problem solved....see what's wrong with the way things work? __________________ The people who are regarded as moral luminaries are those who forego ordinary pleasures themselves and find compensation in interfering with the pleasures of others(Bertrand Russell)"You go into Afghanistan, you got guys who slap women around for five years because they didn't wear a veil,You know, guys like that ain't got no manhood left anyway. So it's a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them." - Lt. Gen. James N. Mattis This is slavery, not to speak one's thought. [Euripides-The Phoenician Women (c.411-409 B.C.)] http://www.macedonia.info/FALLACIESANDFACTS.htm *Sic semper tyrannis.*

Apr 20, 2009, 05:02 AM	#16
ET3D Hopeless Dreamer Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Dreamland, near the pool of infinite graphics cards Posts: 3,055 Rep Power: 103 System Specs	Re: Has online piracy reached a tipping point? dj_stick, I agree about piracy, but I think you're not getting the point that a major part of the problem is the license. People want to own what they buy. They want to be able to lend and resell. And that's actually perfectly normal behaviour that doesn't break copyright, far as I understand it (it's been going on with books for centuries). Public display is, but few people want that. It's annoying to have a license that is more restrictive. Piracy is bad, but with ownership rights getting more and more limited, it will become even more appealing. I want my rights the way they were. I want to be able to lend my books, I want to be able to record a TV show to watch it later, and I want to be able to skip the commercials and not have some stupid technology designed to prevent me from doing so. Getting piled with more and more licensing and technological limitations does nothing to encourage me to stay within them. I'm saying this as someone who isn't using anything pirated. I'm not planning to, either. But I certainly have broken some licenses.

Apr 20, 2009, 05:27 AM	#20
PH3N0M The Master of Sarcasm Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: The U.S. of A Posts: 348 Rep Power: 35 System Specs	Re: Has online piracy reached a tipping point? I'll pirate a game before I'll buy it. The reason being, if I go out and drop $50+ and the game sucks, I'm going to be sorely pissed off because I can't return it and get my money back. If I download it and it sucks, I just uninstall and delete. __________________

Apr 20, 2009, 10:02 AM	#22
LeanWolf alpha male Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Skyrim Posts: 5,702 Rep Power: 80 System Specs	Re: Has online piracy reached a tipping point? i wonder if buying it after illegally 'trialing' it would help you in a court case.. not that i believe that most people who claim to do that actually do it.. __________________

Apr 20, 2009, 11:45 AM	#23
dawgXdenta HardwareHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Gabz Posts: 1,988 Rep Power: 133 System Specs	Re: Has online piracy reached a tipping point? A man earns Cr$1000 i.e crap dollars. He is expected to pay electricity, water, food ..... end of the month he is left with Cr$100. Do you think he will a. downlaoad a game costing Cr$450 , music cd for Cr$150, Movie DVD for Cr$120 When all he has left is Cr$100...... What do you think will happen. I DONT condone free downloads but with "capitalism" the way it is, people will find cheaper shortcuts. So long as one bunch of people are "live large" whereas others barely scrape a living piracy arguments become redundant. __________________ Today's world is of public opinion and the fates of nations are determined through its pressure. Once the tools for building public opinion are obtained, everything that you asked for can be done. --- Osama bin Laden when relating how global media has the minds of the masses. ______________________________________ http://dawgxdenta.deviantart.com/gallery/

Apr 20, 2009, 11:46 AM	#24
Cow_160483 HH's only cow moooooo... Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: BOTSWANA Posts: 6,687 Rep Power: 280 System Specs	Re: Has online piracy reached a tipping point? A contagious topic to say the least but I 've got this to say on the matter: if the entertainment industry odes not want piracy to become prevalent then they need to do something about DRM and the rights of an individual to re-sell whatever he has purchased . "DRM is doomed to fail" __________________ Decode! Muhahahahah!