CDsDontBurn

The Pirate Bay defendants wanted to know why they were being prosecuted while Google was not, even though Google also indexes .torrent files. A new site called "Pirate Google" tries to make the same point; we speak with the site's anonymous creator.

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Source: ARS Technica

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comp_ali

Nice move. The site is useless but is a way to show double standard treat

BlueMak

They make a very good point IMO.

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The people who are regarded as moral luminaries are those who forego ordinary pleasures themselves and find compensation in interfering with the pleasures of others(Bertrand Russell)"You go into Afghanistan, you got guys who slap women around for five years because they didn't wear a veil,You know, guys like that ain't got no manhood left anyway. So it's a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them." - Lt. Gen. James N. Mattis
This is slavery, not to speak one's thought. [Euripides-The Phoenician Women (c.411-409 B.C.)] http://www.macedonia.info/FALLACIESANDFACTS.htm Sic semper tyrannis.

Judas

the site works though.... reguardless...

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YAYitsAndrew

Their argument is unsound. You type "fast and furious" into the pirate google and what you actually end up searching google for is "fast and furious filetype:torrent". This isn't the same as googling for "fast and furious", and if you don't believe me go and google it yourself. There won't be a single mention of a torrent in your search results.

I could set up a similar website called the porno google and whatever you type in, i'll add "hardcore porn" to the end of and all the sites will contain pornography. Oh no! Google is a porn site, block it on school filters and workplace filters!

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"It is because the resistance to paying for copyrighted material, although often characterized as arising from a supposed technical burden or principled concern for the public interest, arises rather from exactly the same segment of the brain that is dominant in shoplifters."
- Mark Helprin, Digital Barbarism
In other words, it's never okay to steal even if you think you have a good reason!

www.yayitsandrew.com

BlueMak

Andrew, that is their point. It's a tool and it works as you want it to. If you want to find something illegal you can, if you want to find something legal,you can. Same thing.

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The people who are regarded as moral luminaries are those who forego ordinary pleasures themselves and find compensation in interfering with the pleasures of others(Bertrand Russell)"You go into Afghanistan, you got guys who slap women around for five years because they didn't wear a veil,You know, guys like that ain't got no manhood left anyway. So it's a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them." - Lt. Gen. James N. Mattis
This is slavery, not to speak one's thought. [Euripides-The Phoenician Women (c.411-409 B.C.)] http://www.macedonia.info/FALLACIESANDFACTS.htm Sic semper tyrannis.

YAYitsAndrew

Google does not encourage its use to find illegal material. There's no checkbox I can click to ask google to return only illegal search results. It remains agnostic to your search terms. In addition, if your copyrighted material ends up on google, you can request for them to remove it. The Pirate Bay does not comply with those same requests. Google is trying to be a legitimate service and The Pirate Bay is trying to be a copyright infringement service. The two do not compare.

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"It is because the resistance to paying for copyrighted material, although often characterized as arising from a supposed technical burden or principled concern for the public interest, arises rather from exactly the same segment of the brain that is dominant in shoplifters."
- Mark Helprin, Digital Barbarism
In other words, it's never okay to steal even if you think you have a good reason!

www.yayitsandrew.com

Judas

false... that's one hell of a bitter lie.

It's in the results... it's just not so blatenly obvious due to having to sift through a few pages to get the occasional one that shows up.

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BlueMak

There is no checkbox in the site either for searching of illegal files...
torrents are not an illegal file type...

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The people who are regarded as moral luminaries are those who forego ordinary pleasures themselves and find compensation in interfering with the pleasures of others(Bertrand Russell)"You go into Afghanistan, you got guys who slap women around for five years because they didn't wear a veil,You know, guys like that ain't got no manhood left anyway. So it's a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them." - Lt. Gen. James N. Mattis
This is slavery, not to speak one's thought. [Euripides-The Phoenician Women (c.411-409 B.C.)] http://www.macedonia.info/FALLACIESANDFACTS.htm Sic semper tyrannis.

YAYitsAndrew

I went through the first 10 pages of results and got tired of being right. You can keep looking through the remaining pages and let me know when the first torrent link pops up.

It's just all reviews...how can so many people want to review a freaking movie!

I then proceeded to go to the pirate bay and search the same thing. The first page had nothing but torrent results! I wonder which site I'll use next time? I just don't buy the argument. In a pinch, a hammer can put a screw into the wood but that's not what a hammer is made for.

edit: I found one on page 27, but I was just randomly jumping forward at that point so it may come sooner.

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"It is because the resistance to paying for copyrighted material, although often characterized as arising from a supposed technical burden or principled concern for the public interest, arises rather from exactly the same segment of the brain that is dominant in shoplifters."
- Mark Helprin, Digital Barbarism
In other words, it's never okay to steal even if you think you have a good reason!

www.yayitsandrew.com

PH3N0M

Andrew, tell me something...is Piracy affecting you? I mean, seriously. Does it effect you? No. Is it costing you money? No. So, why is it really any of your business? It's not. In my opinion, you go on about this piracy bullshit for attention more than anything else. Seriously man, let it go. Being an anti-piracy fan boy is the same as being an advocate for P.E.T.A. or E.L.F.. You're wasting your time and everyone elses. No, this isn't a flame. I'm just stating the obvious.

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Tyrsonswood

Not gonna take side but piracy can effect all of us in one way or another.

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Band sites....http://www.myspace.com/chromecrow ... http://www.myspace.com/zoneblues

YAYitsAndrew

I know torrents have plenty of legitimate purposes and there is some good software using it out there, but in those cases it tends to be a behind the scenes technology. Patching a game for example might use torrenting to distribute the patch. A digital download service for video games might use torrents, a project management tool might use it to distribute the project to all its contributors.

When you're talking about search engine and torrents, however, illegal torrents are the name of the game. You can even search for "torrent" plain and simple on google and get back pages and pages of tracker sites who have nothing but TV shows and movies on their main page. The illegal uses clearly outnumber the legal ones. Basically, if you're concerning yourself at all with the actual .torrent file, you're more likely to be doing something illegal than downloadning the latest linux distro or whatever.

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"It is because the resistance to paying for copyrighted material, although often characterized as arising from a supposed technical burden or principled concern for the public interest, arises rather from exactly the same segment of the brain that is dominant in shoplifters."
- Mark Helprin, Digital Barbarism
In other words, it's never okay to steal even if you think you have a good reason!

www.yayitsandrew.com

YAYitsAndrew

I develop software for a living. More specifically, I develop flash games for a living. I'm concerned not only for the future of my career but also for the friends I have making box software that are already being directly affected by piracy. Just because no one can put a number on it doesn't mean you don't feel the loss of sales or see good guys losing their jobs. It's there and it hurts but no one can say how much.

Even our beloved driverheaven itself has suffered at the hands of pirates. Basically no matter what you do, if you're charging money for software you're being pirated and it's not a good feeling.

As for why I do it, I covered this long ago in another thread. I don't believe that litigation alone will put an end to piracy. I think education is another important tool in fighting piracy. Simply letting people know that piracy is hurting real people and not soulless corporations is enough to deter some people. For everyone else, there's the law.

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"It is because the resistance to paying for copyrighted material, although often characterized as arising from a supposed technical burden or principled concern for the public interest, arises rather from exactly the same segment of the brain that is dominant in shoplifters."
- Mark Helprin, Digital Barbarism
In other words, it's never okay to steal even if you think you have a good reason!

www.yayitsandrew.com

BlueMak

Ah yes, the blame game.
So if I support the freedom of them having a site that lists torrents or I am against shutting down any sites friendly to torrents, then I must be doing something illegaly to support them. Nice old fashion fascism. Well done.

I don't even have software to download torrents, and I buy my games and my dvds. Guess what, I am still in favour of torrents and everyone's right to have any site they want. I am against piracy, but I am also against moralistic bs. You don't want to use pirate bay or any other site, that's your and mine right. That doesn't give you the right to demand others to do the same.

The TPB and even the mock google site, are the same with Google. They give away torrents if asked. the same torrents you can find there you can find in google. TPB doesn't hold any copyright material, the same way google doesn't in relation to torrents. OR, they are both guilty.

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The people who are regarded as moral luminaries are those who forego ordinary pleasures themselves and find compensation in interfering with the pleasures of others(Bertrand Russell)"You go into Afghanistan, you got guys who slap women around for five years because they didn't wear a veil,You know, guys like that ain't got no manhood left anyway. So it's a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them." - Lt. Gen. James N. Mattis
This is slavery, not to speak one's thought. [Euripides-The Phoenician Women (c.411-409 B.C.)] http://www.macedonia.info/FALLACIESANDFACTS.htm Sic semper tyrannis.

YAYitsAndrew

I don't demand, I just give what I consider to be logical arguments and hope that there are people on the internet open to reason. My moral compass doesn't really have anything to say about people harming themselves; it's their life. But piracy doesn't fall under that. Piracy harms others. I assume that most people don't intentionally want to harm others and I'll be the lone voice on this site for those being harmed if I need to be (although I know there are others who feel the same way as me.)

Sorry you took my last post to you so personally, you clearly misunderstood what I was saying. You first said torrents are not an illegal file, which is a true statement in a broad sense, but not in the specific sense of search engine and torrent files. In that specific case, which is what we're talking about, torrent files are used almost exclusively for sharing copyrighted material, which is an illegal act in many countries. That's all I meant to say.

This is a restatement of the original claim. I've already made my counter argument to those who claim google is the same as the pirate bay. To speak in the terms of your restatement, the piece of information you're missing is that with google you have to know HOW to ask, which is considerably less accessible than the site doing it for you. In addition, google will take action to remove copyright infringement from their servers if asked whereas the pirate bay will intentionally keep infringing. Since the verdict declared that TPB was _aiding_ copyright infringement, this is a difference between the two sites that can not be ignored.

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"It is because the resistance to paying for copyrighted material, although often characterized as arising from a supposed technical burden or principled concern for the public interest, arises rather from exactly the same segment of the brain that is dominant in shoplifters."
- Mark Helprin, Digital Barbarism
In other words, it's never okay to steal even if you think you have a good reason!

www.yayitsandrew.com

BlueMak

so if you go to google and type "Spiderman 7 torrent" you are some kind of an elite super pirate that has figured out the secret of typing the title and the word torrent, the thing you are looking for.

About the verdict, wasn't the judge affiliated to one of the companies?

The question is not piracy. But the right for TPB or any other site that doesn't host copyrighted files, to exist.

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The people who are regarded as moral luminaries are those who forego ordinary pleasures themselves and find compensation in interfering with the pleasures of others(Bertrand Russell)"You go into Afghanistan, you got guys who slap women around for five years because they didn't wear a veil,You know, guys like that ain't got no manhood left anyway. So it's a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them." - Lt. Gen. James N. Mattis
This is slavery, not to speak one's thought. [Euripides-The Phoenician Women (c.411-409 B.C.)] http://www.macedonia.info/FALLACIESANDFACTS.htm Sic semper tyrannis.

Judas

the only reason this is all a big problem is simply due to profit margins being cut into.... or possible/suspected profit margins...

This software for the consumer isn't a Necessity... really it isn't.. therefore it really doesn't have a true worthwhile value, this being movies/video games/tv shows/programs of nearly all flavours.

When you get down to the brass tacks, the arguement about this pirate bay, and the whole thing is a bloody joke at best... it's just straight up sad. Hurting? Who? How, and why? Sure producing a peice of coded software takes time, money, and involves making a living, but your not going to try and solve this problem by trying to gut pirateers, all it ends up doing is getting more people out there, it won't slow at all. When a pirate walks into your house, and takes your source code directly, then we've got a serious problem, otherwise, unfortunately, live with it in the realms of the internet. Debating over piracy in this manner is as rediculious as argueing over how a single word could be interpretted as an insult or a glorified compliment.

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BlueMak

I don't think there is a debate about piracy. Piracy is bad, very bad. I am just in favour of fighting the causes, instead of playing the blame game to try to find excuses. The pirates is not the problem. Where they find the material is not the problem. The problem is what makes people to not want to buy the product. Also I don't believe for a second that if magicaly there was a way to stop piracy, that the people who get their software/movies in that way would suddently buy them. No, not in a billion.

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The people who are regarded as moral luminaries are those who forego ordinary pleasures themselves and find compensation in interfering with the pleasures of others(Bertrand Russell)"You go into Afghanistan, you got guys who slap women around for five years because they didn't wear a veil,You know, guys like that ain't got no manhood left anyway. So it's a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them." - Lt. Gen. James N. Mattis
This is slavery, not to speak one's thought. [Euripides-The Phoenician Women (c.411-409 B.C.)] http://www.macedonia.info/FALLACIESANDFACTS.htm Sic semper tyrannis.

Judas

Exactly....

so why pick at scabs when you'll never be able to completely heal it in the first place? All it does is irritate the living hell out of everyone with the potential to even worsen the situation.

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comp_ali

I think good games/movies ..etc wil make people buy it. Look at NPD top 10 for example sims 2 ( although I hate it) , wow , spore never dropped from the list while there are new games never made it. It's about quality in most cases. Take a look at this one http://www.hardwareheaven.com/gaming-n...h-pirates.html

YAYitsAndrew

Thanks for the link comp ali. That article is a good example of the kind of people being hurt by piracy and how education and appeal to morality can help combat software theft.
Indie Zeno Clash devs take sales pitch to the pirates - Ars Technica

One thing i'm always noticing about piracy is that despite what people claim, it doesn't seem to be about copyright reform. Stories like this one, or Stardock's anti DRM stance, show that people are willing to curb their piracy and respect SOME copyrights but not the copyrights of bigger companies. Do you think DH regulars are less likely to steal Driver Cleaner than people who have never been to the site before? I think so. If you had an actual investment in copyright reform wouldn't you choose a consistent stance that applies to all copyrights regardless of the holder, big or small, friend or foe?

So that's why I argue what I do. My signature sums up this same point. Piracy at the lay level is not a political issue it's a moral issue. I mean not to push my morality on others but to demonstrate that there is a moral issue at hand here that may not be detected otherwise and leave it up to each individuals own guiding beliefs.

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"It is because the resistance to paying for copyrighted material, although often characterized as arising from a supposed technical burden or principled concern for the public interest, arises rather from exactly the same segment of the brain that is dominant in shoplifters."
- Mark Helprin, Digital Barbarism
In other words, it's never okay to steal even if you think you have a good reason!

www.yayitsandrew.com

BlueMak

Then we have to agree to disagree.

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The people who are regarded as moral luminaries are those who forego ordinary pleasures themselves and find compensation in interfering with the pleasures of others(Bertrand Russell)"You go into Afghanistan, you got guys who slap women around for five years because they didn't wear a veil,You know, guys like that ain't got no manhood left anyway. So it's a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them." - Lt. Gen. James N. Mattis
This is slavery, not to speak one's thought. [Euripides-The Phoenician Women (c.411-409 B.C.)] http://www.macedonia.info/FALLACIESANDFACTS.htm Sic semper tyrannis.