AMDMB Editorial: Online Media Morals ?

Zardon · Jun 29, 2003, 07:28 PM

I see some of our board members have latched onto this story over at AMDMB here which is basically stating that Tomshardware have forced a media blackout over the Million Man Lan2 event.

Quote:

This weekend at the Million Man Lan 2 (MML2) this usual series of events was shifted due to manufacturer and media company coming to their own terms. It started when I was attempting to attend the MML2 event, in Louisville, KY. I was told by a representative of AMD that I was not going to be allowed to even enter the building because Tom’s Hardware (THG) had forced a media blackout for all other online press. That means that as a member of the press, I was not allowed to enter the building, take photos or write about the hardware events that would occur inside. Needless to say, I was not happy when I heard about this turn of events. I contacted representatives that put on the MML2 event, as well as reps from sponsors like NVIDIA and other AMD personnel. None of the other sponsors, NVIDIA included, were aware of the apparent media blackout by THG – in fact that defeats the purpose of sponsoring an event like the MML2 – getting recognition for shelling out the dough. (Note: The staff of the MML2 event were VERY helpful and had nothing to do with the events that occurred between myself and AMD/THG. The event was a lot of fun and quite the success with over 1,000 in attendance!)

Now I know David Stellmack pretty well from Tomshardware and he has always seemed a nice guy so I had a chat with him via email about this whole unsavoury article. He has been rather shocked by these allegations and has shown me some emails from media people at the event and I would like to quote a section of one of these emails that he sent me (with his permission).

This email is from Joel Hruska to David, he is the Advertising and content editor of Sudhian.

Quote:

While I have first-hand knowledge of how well (or poorly) any of the other attending media companies were treated at Million Man LAN, I was welcomed, given a spot to drop the rig I brought, and had ample opportunity to walk the floor, talk with the various vendors that attended, and squeeze in a bit of gaming as well. This was the first Lanwar / Million Man LAN event I attended (though I'll be headed to more since they're in my hometown of Louisville, KY), but I was very impressed. Over a thousand people came, the networks and game servers ran quite smoothly overall, and the various vendors and sponsors (including Tom's Hardware Guide) went the extra mile for the attendees, donating quite a bit of hardware, being on-site through the whole event to talk to people, and sitting through marathon Q&A sessions. Its sponsorship like this that'll help Million Man LAN grow--hopefully next year they'll be looking for a larger room.

Now its not my position as the owner of Driverheaven.net to appear to be taking sides and im not, i am merely interested in making sure that false propoganda isnt released to the net which as we all know will circulate very quickly and get some people a bad reputation.

I wanted to give Dave Stellmack at Tomshardware an opportunity to post positive feedback and to share some peoples views regarding the MM2 event.

~~tenndevil~~ · Jun 29, 2003, 08:57 PM

Quote:

I would appreciate if those at the event who took pictures would contact me directly and not post on the forum. Ive promised my friend David in Tomshardware not to post any pictures of the event until they get their article up, they are the exclusive media sponsor of the event.

You yourself back-up AMDMB's article here
So TomsHardware does want a media blackout until they are done.... You Zardon yourself even back this notion up and condone it, you too would supress your own board members? Why, why would even agree to hold back the news?

*CATALYST maker* · Jun 30, 2003, 12:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by tenndevil
You yourself back-up AMDMB's article here
So TomsHardware does want a media blackout until they are done.... You Zardon yourself even back this notion up and condone it, you too would supress your own board members? Why, why would even agree to hold back the news?

Because I asked him too.

Zardon alot of politics and heavy-handed tactics going on at this event. We will have to catch up on this in the next couple of days, but THG got a bum deal on this one

digitalwanderer · Jun 30, 2003, 01:30 AM

I'll just reserve any judgements than for a few days until we can all get the skinny on what the what is.

I heard you were a huge hit at MML2 Terry, you're the talk of the boards with that guy you helped to get an entire new system to make his new ATi card work in. WAY cool of ya!

I hope you had fun, and I hope to see you at an upcoming one somewhere.

~~tenndevil~~ · Jun 30, 2003, 04:36 AM

Quote:

Because I asked him too.

Not according to what Zardon says, he says it was THG. I don't know how you figure they got a bum deal, considering they ran they event the way they wanted to.
I am going to take a chance here, but who runs this board? and what about the people that were sent to gather information, they were given a short leash and didn't know it. So, now it was AMD, ATI and THG pushing people around (figuretively not literally).
who are we supposed to believe the person that has nothing to lose, or someone who has alot to gain? The big guys can push these little mom and pop places around easily, "If you don't do what we ask you get no more support from us, no giveaways, no interviews". O dare put my own personal opinion in here to, I believe catalyst maker would stop all the good work he has done for driverheaven if it weren't in ATI's best interest.
So now that we know who guides the way the news/information is delivered how credible will it be. If you can stop someone from reporting then I know you can change what is written.
I don't believe that anyone who attended a public function signed an NDA, therefore any information gathered at this function was fair game. As silly as this sounds there is a reason freedom of speach is No.1 in our Constitution. Anyone who knew that would not have asked Zardon not to publish the information his reps. gathered.

Something else I find very interesting, you ask Zardon to suppress what he has yet you ask people over at rage3d to post what they have,
read this. Your credibility is going quickly.

*CATALYST maker* · Jun 30, 2003, 06:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by tenndevil
Your credibility is going quickly.

Please do not make slanderous remarks about me or my credibility in public forums. I really dont appreciate that.

digitalwanderer · Jun 30, 2003, 06:31 AM

Ok, so mebbe it AIN'T the most shocking thing....but he does claim to have taped conversations between Ryan & THG where the THG guy is nasty and claims they're shocking.

Go here to this post of mine at R3D where I quoted him since I wanted to make sure the wording stayed the same.

<The Dig settles back on the sofa and chomps some more popcorn....>

Trik · Jun 30, 2003, 07:25 AM

Remember his trip to asia?

Tom: "Ahhh, the beauty that is the asian woman."
Tom: *Sniffs finger*
Tom: "Maryann agrees"
Tom: *Sniffs maryanns finger*

While his statments weren't quite as crass as that,
most agreed that they got the impression that tom wasn't just there for the hardware.
That he was on one of those asian sex tours.
Where you can buy underaged girls (or boys) or whatever.

I quit going to toms years ago.
So did everyone I know that hit hardware sites
Anything that can be found there can be found at dozens of other sites.
With far more credibility.
His opinions ebb and flow as the banners on his site change.
Tom has always been at the center of dramas.

~~tenndevil~~ · Jun 30, 2003, 07:29 AM

I am entitled to my opinion. I don't owe you or ATI or THG anything for that matter. It appears from what you have written and in your own words you have coerced driverheaven to wait to post their information. How can I say coerced, let me explain, you are in a position that you give driverheaven support, whether it be giveaways, interviews or just basic support, now (and I'm not speaking for driverheaven or anyone on this board this is my opinion) you ask him not to post the information, if zardon complies no problem, if he decides not to comply then all the extra service you provide stops, so what choice does anyone really have?

Vengeance · Jun 30, 2003, 07:30 AM

Oh what a tangled web we weave

*CATALYST maker* · Jun 30, 2003, 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by tenndevil
I am entitled to my opinion. I don't owe you or ATI or THG anything for that matter. It appears from what you have written and in your own words you have coerced driverheaven to wait to post their information. How can I say coerced, let me explain, you are in a position that you give driverheaven support, whether it be giveaways, interviews or just basic support, now (and I'm not speaking for driverheaven or anyone on this board this is my opinion) you ask him not to post the information, if zardon complies no problem, if he decides not to comply then all the extra service you provide stops, so what choice does anyone really have?

Before speaking your opinion about Zardon's options why not let the man speak for himself.

THG put many months promoting the event and gathering support from a large number of sponsors. I asked Zardon if it would be cool to let THG reap the benefits of all that hard work by letting THG put up their article of the event first. Zardon agreed with that request and thought it was the right thing to do.

So before you continue let Zardon answer if he feels that he has no choice in the matter, or if he believes it is the courteous and professional thing to do for a website that invested alot of hard work in promoting.

I also ask that you not slander me in public anymore considering you have no history whatsoever dealing with me and having any background to base your comment on. Please?

Vengeance · Jun 30, 2003, 07:37 AM

Wow were all online on both boards at the same time

digitalwanderer
tenndevil
CATALYST maker
And me
Vengeance/Doom_BHO

Lets have a party

*CATALYST maker* · Jun 30, 2003, 07:40 AM

LOL
would love to but I am drained from working from 9 am to 5 am the past three nights at MML!

I wish digi was there though, would have been cool!

Vengeance · Jun 30, 2003, 07:42 AM

Wish I had been there

But Texas is a bit far

:Edit

Hey any chance of you guys going to quakecon this year?
Yeah I know it's a nVidia thing this time but WTF! I say have ATI crash it

~~tenndevil~~ · Jun 30, 2003, 07:49 AM

Quote:

Before speaking your opinion about Zardon's options why not let the man speak for himself.

I specifically stated that it was my opinion and that I represented no one but myself, I also explained why. Not all of us follow, and as I stated (me, myself and I, noone else) I fall back to what I said about coercion.

Quote:

I also ask that you not slander me in public anymore

I haven't crossed that line and I won't but I can question.
Post count means nothing, just because I question certain things.

digitalwanderer · Jun 30, 2003, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Vengeance
Wish I had been there But Texas is a bit far

Uhm, MML2 was in Kentucky.

I agree with the party sounding like a good idea, but plead exhaustion also as it's just been a bloody long weekend of housecleaning for me and I'm flat-out tuckered out.

Beddy-ways is right ways, it's about 1:15 here and the morn is coming too soon. We'll all meet at one of these conventions one of these times, I just got a good/weird feeling about it.

Alpha · Jun 30, 2003, 08:26 AM

Next time we should try and spread the Drama over 3 forums

Zardon · Jun 30, 2003, 08:30 AM

Look guys please lets calm down here, unfortunately I didnt see this thread as I was sleeping or I would have replied earlier.

Let me just state categorically that Tomshardware have NOT forced me into NOT posting any information from the event, in fact Dave Stellmack asked me to come to it, but as I live in Ireland and was working I could not make it.

I think our board members know me well enough by now to realise I make a stand on anything I feel strongly about and if this was truly the case I would be backing that AMDMB article up by now wholeheartedly.

I really wish people wouldnt just jump on something without getting some facts clear first or in fact even talking to me about it, im not into the gutter press side of online antics and I never will be.

So let me state one more time so no misinformation can be taken from this. David and myself had a chat about the event and we agreed that Driverheaven would post no information about the event until Tomshardware did. This was a professional decision I made after talking with Terry and Dave, I wasnt forced into the matter at all. Its just professional courtesy. Dave even took care of my guys at the event along with Terry, so lets not slander anyones credibiility or morals here please.

Zardon · Jun 30, 2003, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by tenndevil
I am entitled to my opinion. I don't owe you or ATI or THG anything for that matter. It appears from what you have written and in your own words you have coerced driverheaven to wait to post their information. How can I say coerced, let me explain, you are in a position that you give driverheaven support, whether it be giveaways, interviews or just basic support, now (and I'm not speaking for driverheaven or anyone on this board this is my opinion) you ask him not to post the information, if zardon complies no problem, if he decides not to comply then all the extra service you provide stops, so what choice does anyone really have?

Tenndevil I really do think this is getting out of hand. Terry has never said he would stop supporting Driverheaven and to even suggest it from him is really not very nice dude. I know Terry really well and he wouldnt stoop to this level. I wasnt going to reply to your post but I feel I have to get this cleared up as the whole thing is really escalating into something thats going to start to damage some innocent people.

Terry and myself talk about 2 to 3 times a day about Driver support and how we can improve the members drivers and what to enhance in future drivers, we certainly dont talk about him giving me demands and threatening to pull out if I dont agree, this is ridiculous.

When you run a site you have to understand there has to be a certain amount of understanding between sites and when one site is offically sponsoring the event, its just common decency to wait until their article is up before you post your own (why is this such a big deal anyway?). I would expect the same from others if Driverheaven was hosting an event like that. But I wouldnt stop others from posting it or being there or talking to people, and neither did Dave Stellmack. And please lets not drag Terry into this, he took care of my guys over there and even gave them guided tours to met other representatives from hardware companies.

We will have a nice article up soon, we are still gathering the information and pictures anyway.

~~JAV~~ · Jun 30, 2003, 08:56 AM

.02 time if no one minds.

Tenndevil > you're making a lot of assumptions & walking a fine line, IMO. DH has a lot of members. The ATi/DH 'relationship' is good for both sides. Assuming ATi has 'control' of DH's policies is very misplaced, IMO. Zardon is a reasonable person, but he won't be pushed around. If you've been here for long, you'd know that.

Catalyst Maker comes here on his time off to help. He doesn't appear, to me, to be the sort to 'wield' his power & your assumptions that he might be doing so, are also misplaced, IMO. They said it was done out of professional courtesy to the event sponsor & I see no reason why that isn't true. Some men still honor those codes of 'fair play' & these 2 are in that league, IMO.

Also if the event was inside a rented building: the sponsors have the right to allow/disallow what they wish. Freedom of the press doesn't apply to all events.

No conspiracy here & no need to try to create one, IMO.

nForcer · Jun 30, 2003, 10:04 AM

First off, every one of you (with the exception of those who attended MML2 and/or are in direct contact with the parties involved) are getting your information from secondary sources - you are not getting all the facts. I know I'm opening up the flood gates from hell when I say this but I proudly represented DriverHeaven during the whole event up to the "teardown" and if you want clarification about what happened - refer your comments to me and I'll do my best to answer them.

On a different note:

Either way we look at this incident its going to leave a mark. I'm asking a personal favor to all DH members to be tactful in your comments and replies. If you have nothing wise to say, please don't say anything at all. DH is a well respected organization due in part of the professionalism of its staff, and its members. We are looked at by other Message Board groups and other Online Media Related groups for our thoughts and opinions. (our posts) I don't want to see DH turn into a flaming zone for tech-enthusiasts or something worse because we chose to lower our maturity level.

And on that note I'll end by saying 'we need to resolve the matter and move on' AMD just released its Athalon64 chip! 64-bit technology for the desktop is here!

C'mon - we need to look towards the future! There are great times ahead of us in the computing world. I'm glad to be part of a group that helps announce this to the world. Lets build on that status, not tarnish it.

toddsmack2k · Jun 30, 2003, 02:55 PM

I will give my impression since I was there and I was at the event to try and get a little article up for DH. At no time when I was there was I ever under the feeling that i was not wanted. I was treated with nothing but a overly curteous attitude and open arms. I can understand some people's gripe of being what they feel held back as far as their own coverage goes. I would like to think that all in all everything was done as stated before as (a professional courtesy)! Now I am not a pro in any journalistic aspect but I can say that you should be glad for any information or help you get although it may not be what you wanted. Speaking for myself only I never saw anyone being treated unfairly. IMO I saw any and everyone being professional. I met with every group that has been mentioned here and my treatment was above and beyond the normal.

digitalwanderer · Jun 30, 2003, 05:47 PM

The next low-class f*cktard who badmouths Terry "CatalystMAKER" Makedon without cause gets my personal animosity for the forseeable future.

Aside from helping out the community so much and turning around ATi's driver quality, Terry happens to be a friend of mine and I will NOT stand idly by anymore and hear him badmouthed.

I've heard from two friends already who went to MML2 to report on it who were treated well and helped with their coverage, it was NOT a THG ghestapo fest that some people seem to be describing it on.

I'll need more than one guy who had a bad experience before I'm condemning anyone.

Dyre Straits · Jun 30, 2003, 07:29 PM

There is an official response posted today on THG:

http://www.tomshardware.com/technews...30_012924.html

Trik · Jun 30, 2003, 07:32 PM

Welp, the *lawyer* word has been thrown into the ring.

digitalwanderer · Jun 30, 2003, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Trik
Welp, the *lawyer* word has been thrown into the ring.

Where? I missed that.

Trik · Jun 30, 2003, 07:57 PM

http://www.tomshardware.com/technews...30_012924.html

Quote:

01:29 EST [Omid]
Wasting THG readers' time

In response to an article that appeared on The Inquirer, the following reply, below, was sent to Mike Magee, who kindly published it on his site.

This will be the extent of our reply to this situation, a ridiculous waste of time for everyone involved with MML2. An event that we promoted and sponsored as a means of giving back to the enthusiast community.

THG will continue to promote and support the LAN gaming community, and not for financial reasons - we don't get any money for doing it and we give away our tee shirts, too.

We'll do it because, eventually we will find likeminded people who want to get together, have some fun, and if our endorsement helps the organizers get sponsors who can give out more freebies and bigger prize money, so much the better. Heck, someone has to bring the nachos.

As for the unsavoury site that chose to try and spoil MML2 for everyone, we'll leave it to the lawyers to figure out. Maybe the site will realize that ethics and morality in journalism applies to it, too.

digitalwanderer · Jun 30, 2003, 08:03 PM

Thanks, that one slipped right by me...I think it's about time to slow the world down a bit....

nForcer · Jun 30, 2003, 08:37 PM

The following members are the ONLY one's that I can verify as being in attendance at MML2
Andrew257
Shaunboyland
and myself (nForcer)
I met these guys personally and had despite this negativity, we had a damn good time.
I'm also aware that toddsmack2k was also there, but we seemed to miss eachother.

However I do not feel ANY of them have the grasp of the situation any better than myself.

This is a preview of an article I'm ready to post on DH -

Not only was David Stellmack, THG, AMD, and many other sponsors completely floored at thse accusations of a media blackout but the LANWAR/MillionManLAN staff took offense to them as well. As posted on www.LANWAR.com and www.MillionManLAN.com Burden (Troy Shwartz) clearly states that THG was in not the only outside media covering this event (and everything included). I saw with my own two eyes the TV coverage from WHAS 11 TV and many other media representatives at the Athalon64 Q & A Session. And I quote:

"
Lanwar/MillionManLan Media Coverage
Burden - 6/29/2003

Recently there have been some rumors, posts and stories about restricted media coverage that are untrue. As always, the more media coverage the better. MillionManLan 2 was visited by WHAS 11 TV, WHAS 840 Radio, THG, Sudhian & AMDMB.
To set the record straight, THG is not financially linked to Lanwar/MML in any way other than the time/effort/articles & tons of banner ads that THG went out of their way to help promote our favorite growing lanparty. This kind of coverage is unprecedented for lanparties in the US and we are grateful for their efforts.

Remember Lanwar/MillionManLan is and has always been about fun. Lets all remember to focus on the fun now that we have passed the 1000 gamer mark. It appalls us to see people attacked for going out of their way to give back to the LAN gaming community. Anyone wishing to discuss this further please feel free to email us at burden@lanwar.com. - Troy & Dawn Schwartz (Burden & BBabe)
"

You can take this response any way you wish but you need to understand that not only has this incident affected the creditability of the involved parties but the LANWAR/MML staff as well. While I cannot speak on thier behalf I will state again that this came as a stab in the back and floored every one of the staff members. They are some of the best professional individuals in the LANparty industry and any accusations that they were "NOT aware THG working a media blackout" are COMPLETELY FALSE. (and they disproved of it in Burden's statement above)

_________________________

On a personal note, it sickens me that an event with such an impact on the PC industry has been tarnished by these false accusations. When my full article/response paper is posted you will see first hand just how many half-truths are being used against THG (NOT David Stellmack). THG has prided itself in being the absolute best in product reviews, etc and when you are at the top, everyone below you will try to knock you down.

Zardon I appreciate your stand on this situation and give you tremendous creditability for helping to turn this incident around. I'll thank you in advance for allowing me to post my first-hand experience of MML2 as well as a group concensus article of the MML2 event.

Dyre Straits · Jun 30, 2003, 10:33 PM

Additional (and 'final') Public Response from THG:

http://www17.tomshardware.com/technews/index.html

Jun 30, 2003, 01:30 AM	#4
digitalwanderer Colour Commentator Join Date: May 2002 Location: Highland, IN USA Posts: 5,620 Rep Power: 0	Thanks again CM. I'll just reserve any judgements than for a few days until we can all get the skinny on what the what is. I heard you were a huge hit at MML2 Terry, you're the talk of the boards with that guy you helped to get an entire new system to make his new ATi card work in. WAY cool of ya! I hope you had fun, and I hope to see you at an upcoming one somewhere. __________________ WTF is up with the sigs?

Jun 30, 2003, 06:31 AM	#7
digitalwanderer Colour Commentator Join Date: May 2002 Location: Highland, IN USA Posts: 5,620 Rep Power: 0	Pelly from [H] chimes in at R3D...against THG!!! Ok, so mebbe it AIN'T the most shocking thing....but he does claim to have taped conversations between Ryan & THG where the THG guy is nasty and claims they're shocking. Go here to this post of mine at R3D where I quoted him since I wanted to make sure the wording stayed the same. <The Dig settles back on the sofa and chomps some more popcorn....> __________________ WTF is up with the sigs?

Jun 30, 2003, 07:25 AM	#8
Trik DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Over There ---> Posts: 28 Rep Power: 0	THG = zero class Remember his trip to asia? Tom: "Ahhh, the beauty that is the asian woman." Tom: Sniffs finger Tom: "Maryann agrees" Tom: Sniffs maryanns finger While his statments weren't quite as crass as that, most agreed that they got the impression that tom wasn't just there for the hardware. That he was on one of those asian sex tours. Where you can buy underaged girls (or boys) or whatever. I quit going to toms years ago. So did everyone I know that hit hardware sites Anything that can be found there can be found at dozens of other sites. With far more credibility. His opinions ebb and flow as the banners on his site change. Tom has always been at the center of dramas.

Jun 30, 2003, 07:30 AM	#10
Vengeance DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: Fort Worth TX Posts: 643 Rep Power: 0	Oh what a tangled web we weave __________________ [color=red]Rage3D Super Moderator[/color] [color=red]BFG 6800 GT [/color]

Jun 30, 2003, 07:37 AM	#12
Vengeance DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: Fort Worth TX Posts: 643 Rep Power: 0	Wow were all online on both boards at the same time digitalwanderer tenndevil CATALYST maker And me Vengeance/Doom_BHO Lets have a party __________________ [color=red]Rage3D Super Moderator[/color] [color=red]BFG 6800 GT [/color]

Jun 30, 2003, 07:29 AM	#9
~~tenndevil~~ Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 128 Rep Power: 0	I am entitled to my opinion. I don't owe you or ATI or THG anything for that matter. It appears from what you have written and in your own words you have coerced driverheaven to wait to post their information. How can I say coerced, let me explain, you are in a position that you give driverheaven support, whether it be giveaways, interviews or just basic support, now (and I'm not speaking for driverheaven or anyone on this board this is my opinion) you ask him not to post the information, if zardon complies no problem, if he decides not to comply then all the extra service you provide stops, so what choice does anyone really have?

Jun 30, 2003, 07:40 AM	#13
CATALYST maker ATI driver guru Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: ATI, Canada Posts: 678 Rep Power: 61	LOL would love to but I am drained from working from 9 am to 5 am the past three nights at MML! I wish digi was there though, would have been cool!

Jun 30, 2003, 07:42 AM	#14
Vengeance DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: Fort Worth TX Posts: 643 Rep Power: 0	Wish I had been there But Texas is a bit far :Edit Hey any chance of you guys going to quakecon this year? Yeah I know it's a nVidia thing this time but WTF! I say have ATI crash it __________________ [color=red]Rage3D Super Moderator[/color] [color=red]BFG 6800 GT [/color]

Jun 30, 2003, 08:26 AM	#17
Alpha Catalyst Beta tester Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 33 Rep Power: 0	Next time we should try and spread the Drama over 3 forums __________________ System: Mobile Athlon XP2500+@2600mhz, Abit NF7-S 2.0, 1024mb DDR, Viewsonic A90 19", ATI Radeon 9700PRO - Windows XP + SP2 + DX9b

Jun 30, 2003, 08:30 AM	Thread Starter #18
Zardon DriverHeaven Founder Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 32,480 Rep Power: 177	Look guys please lets calm down here, unfortunately I didnt see this thread as I was sleeping or I would have replied earlier. Let me just state categorically that Tomshardware have NOT forced me into NOT posting any information from the event, in fact Dave Stellmack asked me to come to it, but as I live in Ireland and was working I could not make it. I think our board members know me well enough by now to realise I make a stand on anything I feel strongly about and if this was truly the case I would be backing that AMDMB article up by now wholeheartedly. I really wish people wouldnt just jump on something without getting some facts clear first or in fact even talking to me about it, im not into the gutter press side of online antics and I never will be. So let me state one more time so no misinformation can be taken from this. David and myself had a chat about the event and we agreed that Driverheaven would post no information about the event until Tomshardware did. This was a professional decision I made after talking with Terry and Dave, I wasnt forced into the matter at all. Its just professional courtesy. Dave even took care of my guys at the event along with Terry, so lets not slander anyones credibiility or morals here please.

Jun 30, 2003, 08:56 AM	#20
~~JAV~~ Banned Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: California, USA Posts: 283 Rep Power: 0	.02 time if no one minds. Tenndevil > you're making a lot of assumptions & walking a fine line, IMO. DH has a lot of members. The ATi/DH 'relationship' is good for both sides. Assuming ATi has 'control' of DH's policies is very misplaced, IMO. Zardon is a reasonable person, but he won't be pushed around. If you've been here for long, you'd know that. Catalyst Maker comes here on his time off to help. He doesn't appear, to me, to be the sort to 'wield' his power & your assumptions that he might be doing so, are also misplaced, IMO. They said it was done out of professional courtesy to the event sponsor & I see no reason why that isn't true. Some men still honor those codes of 'fair play' & these 2 are in that league, IMO. Also if the event was inside a rented building: the sponsors have the right to allow/disallow what they wish. Freedom of the press doesn't apply to all events. No conspiracy here & no need to try to create one, IMO.

Jun 30, 2003, 10:04 AM	#21
nForcer Twice the fun! Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,404 Rep Power: 0	Getting the facts straight. First off, every one of you (with the exception of those who attended MML2 and/or are in direct contact with the parties involved) are getting your information from secondary sources - you are not getting all the facts. I know I'm opening up the flood gates from hell when I say this but I proudly represented DriverHeaven during the whole event up to the "teardown" and if you want clarification about what happened - refer your comments to me and I'll do my best to answer them. On a different note: Either way we look at this incident its going to leave a mark. I'm asking a personal favor to all DH members to be tactful in your comments and replies. If you have nothing wise to say, please don't say anything at all. DH is a well respected organization due in part of the professionalism of its staff, and its members. We are looked at by other Message Board groups and other Online Media Related groups for our thoughts and opinions. (our posts) I don't want to see DH turn into a flaming zone for tech-enthusiasts or something worse because we chose to lower our maturity level. And on that note I'll end by saying 'we need to resolve the matter and move on' AMD just released its Athalon64 chip! 64-bit technology for the desktop is here! C'mon - we need to look towards the future! There are great times ahead of us in the computing world. I'm glad to be part of a group that helps announce this to the world. Lets build on that status, not tarnish it.

Jun 30, 2003, 02:55 PM	#22
toddsmack2k It Never..... Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Kentucky Posts: 3,173 Rep Power: 0	I will give my impression since I was there and I was at the event to try and get a little article up for DH. At no time when I was there was I ever under the feeling that i was not wanted. I was treated with nothing but a overly curteous attitude and open arms. I can understand some people's gripe of being what they feel held back as far as their own coverage goes. I would like to think that all in all everything was done as stated before as (a professional courtesy)! Now I am not a pro in any journalistic aspect but I can say that you should be glad for any information or help you get although it may not be what you wanted. Speaking for myself only I never saw anyone being treated unfairly. IMO I saw any and everyone being professional. I met with every group that has been mentioned here and my treatment was above and beyond the normal. __________________ [color=blue]*Bleeding From the Inside Pouring Out, The* *DriverHeaven* Spiral, We Shall Never Let Go Of.[/color]

Jun 30, 2003, 05:47 PM	#23
digitalwanderer Colour Commentator Join Date: May 2002 Location: Highland, IN USA Posts: 5,620 Rep Power: 0	And on a much more personal and psychotic note.... The next low-class f*cktard who badmouths Terry "CatalystMAKER" Makedon without cause gets my personal animosity for the forseeable future. Aside from helping out the community so much and turning around ATi's driver quality, Terry happens to be a friend of mine and I will NOT stand idly by anymore and hear him badmouthed. I've heard from two friends already who went to MML2 to report on it who were treated well and helped with their coverage, it was NOT a THG ghestapo fest that some people seem to be describing it on. I'll need more than one guy who had a bad experience before I'm condemning anyone. __________________ WTF is up with the sigs?

Jun 30, 2003, 07:32 PM	#25
Trik DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Over There ---> Posts: 28 Rep Power: 0	Welp, the lawyer word has been thrown into the ring.

Jun 30, 2003, 08:03 PM	#28
digitalwanderer Colour Commentator Join Date: May 2002 Location: Highland, IN USA Posts: 5,620 Rep Power: 0	Thank you. Thanks, that one slipped right by me...I think it's about time to slow the world down a bit.... __________________ WTF is up with the sigs?

Jun 30, 2003, 08:37 PM	#29
nForcer Twice the fun! Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,404 Rep Power: 0	DH Members in attendance The following members are the ONLY one's that I can verify as being in attendance at MML2 Andrew257 Shaunboyland and myself (nForcer) I met these guys personally and had despite this negativity, we had a damn good time. I'm also aware that toddsmack2k was also there, but we seemed to miss eachother. However I do not feel ANY of them have the grasp of the situation any better than myself. This is a preview of an article I'm ready to post on DH - Not only was David Stellmack, THG, AMD, and many other sponsors completely floored at thse accusations of a media blackout but the LANWAR/MillionManLAN staff took offense to them as well. As posted on www.LANWAR.com and www.MillionManLAN.com Burden (Troy Shwartz) clearly states that THG was in not the only outside media covering this event (and everything included). I saw with my own two eyes the TV coverage from WHAS 11 TV and many other media representatives at the Athalon64 Q & A Session. And I quote: " Lanwar/MillionManLan Media Coverage Burden - 6/29/2003 Recently there have been some rumors, posts and stories about restricted media coverage that are untrue. As always, the more media coverage the better. MillionManLan 2 was visited by WHAS 11 TV, WHAS 840 Radio, THG, Sudhian & AMDMB. To set the record straight, THG is not financially linked to Lanwar/MML in any way other than the time/effort/articles & tons of banner ads that THG went out of their way to help promote our favorite growing lanparty. This kind of coverage is unprecedented for lanparties in the US and we are grateful for their efforts. Remember Lanwar/MillionManLan is and has always been about fun. Lets all remember to focus on the fun now that we have passed the 1000 gamer mark. It appalls us to see people attacked for going out of their way to give back to the LAN gaming community. Anyone wishing to discuss this further please feel free to email us at burden@lanwar.com. - Troy & Dawn Schwartz (Burden & BBabe) " You can take this response any way you wish but you need to understand that not only has this incident affected the creditability of the involved parties but the LANWAR/MML staff as well. While I cannot speak on thier behalf I will state again that this came as a stab in the back and floored every one of the staff members. They are some of the best professional individuals in the LANparty industry and any accusations that they were "NOT aware THG working a media blackout" are COMPLETELY FALSE. (and they disproved of it in Burden's statement above) _________________________ On a personal note, it sickens me that an event with such an impact on the PC industry has been tarnished by these false accusations. When my full article/response paper is posted you will see first hand just how many half-truths are being used against THG (NOT David Stellmack). THG has prided itself in being the absolute best in product reviews, etc and when you are at the top, everyone below you will try to knock you down. Zardon I appreciate your stand on this situation and give you tremendous creditability for helping to turn this incident around. I'll thank you in advance for allowing me to post my first-hand experience of MML2 as well as a group concensus article of the MML2 event.