Dom

WE DIDN'T HAVE time yesterday to write up an interesting little report in the Wall Street Journal, but it's definitely worth noting.

In order to compete with the Thai government's plan to sell a million cheapo Linux PCs, which we covered earlier, Microsoft did some fancy footwork on pricing. And on activation.

According to the Journal, Microsoft said it would sell WIndows XP and Office at a piffling $36 a PC.

And Microsoft also agreed to make specific Thai versions of Windows XP, IE and the Media Player.

But here's the real stunner, aside from the price. The Vole also removed the need for product activation for Windows XP in Thailand, at the government's request.

So what gives?

If it can do all these marvellous things in Thailand, why not anywhere else on our planet? As Windows XP forms a particularly large item in a PC's bill of materials, resellers everywhere would certainly welcome this one.

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Source: TheInquirer

brc64

If I hadn't already bought Windows XP for $10 (gotta love student discounts!), I'd totally buy it for $36. That's very reasonable.

- Me

craig588

If this can be used in english, on US systems and supports all patches I might conceive of upgrading to it. I'm constantly swapping around hardware between my various computers just to get performance comparisons of high end stuff in low end machines and vice versa. I also upgrade semi-frequently.

BWX

Product activation not working after component upgrades is stupid. Bad M$.

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Rayder

I could see them dumping product activation for WinXP once it's at the end of it's product cycle. At that point, it would be too much of a hassle to keep it going.

MIG-31

just a little bit too late by then,what would the next style for when xp begins to be replaiced.

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brc64

Actually, activations works fine after most upgrades. I just changed my motherboard, cpu, and RAM, and I had no trouble reactivating Windows. It's the network card you have to watch out for.. its "unique" MAC address is the largest part of the hardware ID Windows generates for activation. As long as you keep your network card, you shouldn't have too much trouble. I haven't.

- Me

ToshiroOC

I'd buy Windows XP for all of my computers, not just my main one, if I knew I could get it for $36 and not need to activate.

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[img][/img]
[color=White]Peace be with you, Joe.[/color]
Driverheaven Staff Member (Supermoderator)

BWX

Good info- I haven't heard that before, and it makes sense too. Thanks.

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PoopyTheJ

MAC address on NIC is important, however, even without changing that out, you get a certain limited number of activations then kaput. You have to call in sit on the phone for an hour so somebody can tell you yeah, you can run the program on the macdhine you bought it for. Activation is ok, except when you upgrade, reinstall, mod as much as I do. I went the dark side on this and just cracked the activation so I don't have to bother with it anymore. real pain in the ass spending an hour on the phone just to activate windows. I bought the damn OS, so now I'm running a version I got online so I don;t have to activate the stoopid garbage. I know make it a real pain in the ass to do it right so we all go out and pirate software cause it's easier! Thats all I can think of actually, if they notice large scale piracy they have excuse to crop down on the citizenry and impose yet more restrictions, snooping et al. Get rid of the fockin thing for christ sake. Make everyones life easier huh?

BWX

I installed WinXP Home on my mom's machine a couple years ago- haven't reinstalled it yet- but if I run into a bunch of hassles trying to activate it when I build here a new PC- I'm sure as hell not going to go spend ANOTHER hundred dollars to install software I already paid for! That's for DAMN sure- I guess then I'll "do what I have to do."

I paid for the POS OS- I'll put it on whatever PC I want- That's not breaking any laws... If MS doesn't like that, the to Hell w/ them.

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Matth

I did have a list, but I can't find it, and at one time, a possible way of making a "universal" authebtication was mooted.

The Network card, if fitted WHEN you activate, ends up being effectively a key - the SAME network card, will allow you a couple of extra changes, but a different one will COST you one of your changes - so do NOT have it fitted at that point if you expect to change it.

You can also get an extra change or 2 by declarng the system to be dockable (when activating).

The volume serial numbr can be set with suitable software, so that can be used to remove one possible change when upgrading a hard disk.

In general, before activating, the more activation-sensitive hardware you can leave out (eg. scsi card), the better, as you can always ADD hardware without upsetting the activation, AND have a free hand to change the added hardware as well.

Dyre Straits

When Windows 95 was launched, I was among the thousands and thousands who camped out at the local CompUSA to get my copy at midnight when it could be officially purchased.

When Windows 98 was released, both my son and I were camped out at the -- now defunct -- Computer City and I even got my mug broadcast around the world on CNN holding up a copy and saying, "I got my copy of Windows 98!"

BUT, when XP was being hyped, due to the new activation scheme, I decided against getting it. I waited nearly a year and half after its release to finally get my hands on it -- and only then because it was on sale at price I felt was reasonable.

So far, I've had no trouble getting the activation to work. But, my only major hardware change has been my main HD. I went from a 40 GB to 80 GB.

Now, my question is this: If activation DOES fail, I know you have to call to get 'special' permission, but, how does the failure to activate affect your current functionality? In other words, do you still have the amount of days left that the system keeps prompting you about when you reboot? I had to reinstall XP this week after problems resulting from the Blaster Worm. I still have 26 days left to activate. AND, I've already re-activated about 4 or 5 times this year following reinstallations.

So, does anyone know the general rule of thumb about this?

Thanks

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generalstupid

WHERE?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

brc64

I had to call Microsoft once after reinstalling Windows several times. It was a toll-free number and I wasn't on the line for more than 5 minutes. They gave me a big long key to type in, and that was that. Since then, I've reinstalled Windows so many times (at least 6 times just this past week trying to get things to work right) and I haven't had any problems activating online.

I know it's a minor inconvenience, but in my opinion, it's nothing worth griping about. If I knew that millions of people were using my software without paying me for it, I'd try to do something about it, too.

- Me

HawK

I have pay'd fl 1200,00 guilders for my copy of Win 2000,
if i read this kind of stuff it really pisses me of, that suddenly when MS is faced with the tread of millions going to use Linux, XP suddenly can be sold cheaply,
it is not fair to their paying customers,
for yrs, MS has shut their eyes for piracy, and now noone can touch them anymore,
you should go to all this trouble just to get your copy of your MS product running.
I can assure you that when the day comes that Win2000 is no longer supported by MS,
I wil not buy any product from them again.
whatever the cost!!

WildChild

Greed ...that sums it up in one word...thats why it wont be done here ..lol

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Knowledge is SCARY,Stupidity is REALLY frightening

Dyre Straits

Just to update....and answer my own question....I was able to reactivate this install of XP without any hassle at all.

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PoopyTheJ

I knoiw no rulke of thnumb however that sounds aboput like the road to windows hold hell I got stuck on. I uograded reinstalled, reinstalled from crash, reinstalled from saomething else and reinstalled for another upgrade.that last one booted me to eugina so she and I could talk about how I need to activate. Also this happened after windows surreptitiously installed SP1 behind my back, told me my activation was foobared and would need redone, So I had to call nice Eugine Phone center worker and ghet the run around about are you using a legal version blah blah. Real mess. Apparently at the time they were rolling out sp1 they were getting random deactivations of windows boxes the calls were swamped when I called in about it. Overall a completer and uttr waste of my time. I coulda been doing much more productive things like getting my cock pushups going. Or my pushups naked over a rat trap. jj. Woulda been more fun that the musak hell and the smarmy microshaft help desk arrgh. Good product I must say, customer care, customer respect worst I've ever seen. good luck!

Esaz666

Too true,
It can be sold cheaply because it's not worth buying. Stupid activation rubbish, Ive got a legit version
of XP it took me all of 5 min. to get the activation crack.yawn
dont give bill your money

' When I drop, say $50 dollar bill, in the time it takes me to bother to pick it up i would make more money just leaving it on the floor ' quote from bill Gate$.

he's allready got enough.
booo M$

Hey , M$ will choke linux like a boa constrictor or anything else which might compete. But what can you do , I use microsoft OS's because thats all there is. I wish someone would produce a really cut down OS which is compatable with windows but without all the shit. Im not bothed about security etc. I keep my main system unconnected to the net. I just want speed, my problem with lindows etc. is that they all seem to be a bit buggy or slower. What I need is a sleek cut down OS for optimum performance, It takes ages tweaking Xp, 98lite etc to get good performance. Anyway nothing last's forever , Microsoft's monopoly will eventually collapse.

peterosesbookie

find corp, slipstream with sp1, find key. No activation at all

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A Cat almost always blinks when hit in the head with a ball peen hammer!

BWX

Holy freaking old thread batman!

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PoopyTheJ

find corp, slipstream with sp1, find key. No activation at all

That was my route, I didn't even remember posting on this thread. hehe.

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Rayder

From what I remember reading somewhere about Windows Activation, if you don't change your system for 4 months , it wipes the "change list" clean. So, essentially, you should be able to re-activate WinXP WITHOUT calling MS if you haven't changed anything in that time the next time you reformat.

Let me see if I can dig up that info........

OK, found it...it's long winded, but it may clear up alot of confusion about Windows activation:

CHANGES IN WINDOWS PRODUCT ACTIVATION
in Windows XP Service Pack 1
Service Pack 1 for Windows XP (SP1), released on September 9, 2002, introduces some changes in the way WPA works. These are not large, and attention is drawn to them at relevant points in this page. For more detailed discussion of the changes and their implications, see Microsofts article Service Pack 1 Changes to Product Activation.




One new feature in Windows XP that has caused great concern is Windows Product Activation (WPA). There are a great many rumors, and much misinformation, from which you might be led to think that WPA is going to call Microsoft every day and say just what you are doing with your computer; that, if you make any changes at all to your computer hardware, the machine will be instantly disabled; and that WPA is a sneaky way for Microsoft to store personal information about you or your computer, or to begin charging you a monthly fee for your continued use of Windows XP. In fact, all of these rumors are false. WPA is a fairly easy-going check when Windows boots, confirming that it is still installed on the same computer as last time it checked. Thats all. But the rampant misinformation is understandable, because it is hard for the general consumer to find a simple yet comprehensive explanation of just what WPA is. This page tries to fill that gap by explaining WPA in a straightforward, detailed way  and to show that it will be a lot less trouble to most people than many have feared.



Whats the idea of WPA?
The Microsoft License for use of Windows has always been limited to allowing installation on only a single machine (and that excludes having the same copy installed on a laptop as well as a desktop machine: only MS Office is licensed for the combination). Microsoft believes that this has been subject to much casual abuse. WPA is a means of ensuring that a single copy is not installed on more than a single machine.

So, within the first 30 days after installing Windows XP, you must get the system activated if you are to be able to go on using it. This involves the computer dialing in and giving some information about the hardware on which Windows is installed, receiving in return a release code which will be recorded on the system.

At subsequent boots, Windows checks to see that it is still running on hardware that it can recognise as being the same. If it does not match well enough, you will be unable to do more than backup files until you call Microsoft to explain  for example, that the old machine broke down and had to be rebuilt  and get a new release code.

This may not apply to new machines, bought with Windows already installed and activated by the maker locking the system to the BIOS on the motherboard. If the manufacturer has done this, you can change all the rest of the hardware without affecting activation status. But, in this situation, any replacement of the motherboard, or a new BIOS, would have to be obtained from the original computer maker, or WPA will come into action on the replacement and a new release code from Microsoft will be required.



What hardware gets checked?
The WPA system checks ten categories of hardware:

Display Adapter
SCSI Adapter
IDE Adapter (effectively the motherboard)
Network Adapter (NIC) and its MAC Address
RAM Amount Range (i.e., 0-64mb, 64-128mb, etc.)
Processor Type
Processor Serial Number
Hard Drive Device
Hard Drive Volume Serial Number (VSN)
CD-ROM / CD-RW / DVD-ROM
It then calculates and records a number based on the first device of each type that was found during setup, and stores this number on your hard drive. Initially, this is sent to Microsoft in an automatic dial-up, together with the Product ID number derived from the 25-character unique Product Key used in setting up Windows.

If Service Pack 1 has been installed, the entire Product Key is also transmitted: This can then be checked against a list of known pirated keys

The hardware is checked each time Windows boots, to ensure that it is still on the same machine. Also, if you subsequently perform a complete format and reinstall of Windows, Microsofts activation center will have to be contacted again because the information held on the machine itself (the number previously written to your hard drive) will have been wiped out by reformatting the hard drive. If your hardware is substantially the same, this will be done by an automated call without your needing to talk to anyone.

What does substantially the same mean? WPA asks for votes from each of these ten categories: Is the same device still around, or has there never been one? Seven Yes votes means all is well  and a NIC, present originally and not changed, counts for three yes votes! Minor cards, like sound cards, dont come into the mix at all. If you keep the motherboard, with the same amount of RAM and processor, and an always present cheap NIC (available for $10 or less), you can change everything else as much as you like.

If you change the device in any category, you have lost that Yes vote  but will not lose it any more thereafter if you make changes in that category again. So, for example, you can install a new video display card every month for as long as you like.



What if I make too many changes?
If, on Windows startup, there are not the required seven Yes votes, the system will, in the original version of Windows XP, only boot to Safe Mode. You will be required to reactivate by a phone call to Microsoft. You will have to write down a 50-digit number, call into the activation center on a toll-free number that will be given to you, read and check back the number you recorded  and explain the circumstances. In exchange, you will be given a 42-digit number to type in. This will reactivate your copy of Windows.

This is made easier if Windows XP Service Pack 1 has been installed: The system will continue to boot normally for three days, during which time you will be able to contact the activation center via the net. If the extra changes have been removed, or if 120 days have passed since the original activation, you will be able to use the automatic process once more



What about formatting a hard disk?
Two things are recorded for disks: the number of the disk drive itself, and the Volume Serial Number (VSN) of the partition on it.

HINT No. 1: The VSN is part of the data in the partitions first sector, so it is changed when you reformat the drive. It is worth getting the freeware utility Volume ID to restore the original VSN. Before you reformat, run VOL from a Command Prompt, note the VSN (e.g., 1F2E-3C4B) in the second line. Then, after the reformat and new Windows XP installation, defer the new activation until you have run Volume ID to restore the old VSN, and rebooted. This is not essential  but it saves one of the Yes votes against any future hardware change. (If you dont wish to run this utility, the next best way to obtain the same result would be to delete the old Win XP files from the hard drive before reinstalling, rather than actually reformatting.)

HINT No. 2: Another thing that changes the VSN is converting a FAT 32 partition to NTFS. So, if you upgrade a system using FAT 32 to Windows XP and intend to convert to NTFS, do the conversion before activating the system. Remember, you can wait a while: you have 30 days before you need to activate. The machines hardware at the time of the first activation is what counts. Or, if you have already activated, use Volume ID as described in Hint No. 1.

HINT No. 3: It is valuable to back up the two files WPA.DBL and WPA.BAK from the Windows\System32 folder.Then, should they get damaged, or should you do a Repair reinstallation of Win XP, these files can be copied back to restore the prior activation status. However, this only works in those limited circumstances. The contents of these two files is matched to the specific Windows setup; therefore, contrary to what many journalists and members of the user community have written in recent months, restoring these files will not restore your activation status following a reformat and clean install.

The disk drive and partition recorded will be the ones that the system has found first when doing the initial activation: normally the one from which the system booted. So, if you change that disk and reinstall Windows to a new partition, you have lost two of the Yes votes. If, though, you add a new hard disk, copy the original partition onto it with an imaging program, and retain the original hard drive as a secondary data disk, it will still be found by a later check. This is because it searches for all disks, and the vote will be Yes in both categories if it finds the original one, with the partition not reformatted.



What about a swappable hard drive bay?
Provided the swappable hard drive bay is for secondary disks (used for data), and the boot disk with Windows is still present, the swappable disks do not enter into the WPA calculation.



Changing the motherboard
Installing a replacement motherboard will change the IDE controller, and usually will mean that you change to a new, faster, processor. If the processor is one with a serial number (Pentium III), then you lose a third vote  including when you change to a processor with no serial number, such as an Athlon. If you also add RAM, or if the motherboard is one with an on-board SCSI adapter, that makes four or five categories now voting No  you would need an unchanged NIC to avoid having to call in for reactivation. If the new motherboard also has inbuilt video (and possibly even a NIC of its own!), you run right out of Yes votes with this one hardware change.

Again, this doesnt stop you from making such a hardware change, nor from using Windows XP thereafter. The phone-in reactivation option was created for just this type of situation. Also, this is an extreme example. Due to the onboard features of some motherboards, this one hardware change is equivalent to several changes at once.



Re-activation on a new setup after adding devices
If you add devices, as mentioned earlier in relation to hard disks, the check at boot up will still find the original device, even if it is now in a subsidiary postion (e.g., as a slave hard disk). But if you format and do a new setup, it will be the device that is now in first place that goes into the hardware hash sent to Microsoft. This means that this hardware category no longer will match  and will be seen as voting no. This means that you may find the automatic activation rejected, even though you have not recently made any changes. Therefore, from the point of view of WPA, it is best to make such hardware additions subsidiary ones. For example, if you add another CD drive, have it as the secondary slave, and, if need be, move the original one onto the primary channel.

There is a useful program XPInfo which will give you a simple picture of which categories are currently casting Yes votes at the boot-up check.



How long does this go on?
The license for a retail version of Windows XP is in perpetuity. You get to use Windows XP forever, if you choose.

But Microsoft recognises that machines do get upgraded. If, following the activation after setup, you do not need to contact the activation center for 120 days (any changes you make during this time being seen as acceptable when the system boots), then the sheet is swept clean and you can start again using the current hardware as the new baseline to make more changes.

If you get a new computer, you are entitled to remove Windows XP from the one that is being junked, and install the same Windows XP on the new machine  but you will have to do the reactivation by a voice call and explain (unless, as was just mentioned, 120 days have passed since the activation was last performed).

Microsoft has said that if it ever becomes not worthwhile for them to keep this activation system going, they will take steps to allow users to disable it.

Restrictions of specific license types may limit the foregoing. OEM versions of Windows XP are licensed together with the hardware with which they are purchased, as an entity, and such a copy may not be moved to a different computer. Other specific license types (e.g., Academic licenses) are handled in different ways. This isnt a WPA issue per se, but rather an issue of the license for that purchase, and therefore outside the scope of this discussion of WPA.



Installation of Service Pack 1
Windows XP Service Pack 1 (SP1) introduces some further obstacles to systems that appear to have been pirated: It will not install at all on systems which appear to have used one of two well established pirate Product Keys, and a wider range of pirated and cracked keys will result in no access being allowed to Windows Update.

Installation of SP1 also will detect and fix a number of cracks used by pirates to circumvent the need to activate. Such systems will then need to be activated after SP1 is installed.

Regular, legitimate, installations of Windows XP will not need to be reactivated after installing SP1.



Some things WPA does not do
WPA does not send any personal information at all about you to Microsoft. There is still an option to register the product with Microsoft, but that is separate and entirely voluntary.


If you have to phone in yourself to carry out an activation or reactivation, you are not required to give any identifying personal information.


WPA does not phone in every day to check. The check that the system is not significantly different is done by Windows itself at boot. If the hardware is not acceptable (i.e., you dont get your seven Yes votes), you have to initiate the telephone call yourself in order to reactivate. Windows itself never calls Microsoft except when you specifically tell it to do so for an online activation.


WPA does not provide a means for Microsoft to turn off your machine or damage your data. (Nor do they even have access to your data.) If the system is requiring you to phone in, you will still be able to boot to Safe Mode and back up your data.


WPA is not a lease system requiring more payments after two years or any other period. You may use the product as licensed in perpetuity.


I hope that helps explain it all.