FPS: The Quest for more

Dom · Sep 12, 2003, 02:01 PM

Anyone who even remotely follows PC hardware websites/magazines will have noticed that a lot of the high end items for computers are tested for there ability to improve frame rates in games. You've probably seen in forums or heard from your friends about the latest drivers for there system, and how many extra frames per second (or FPS) they got from them. About how the Latest Video Card supports such and such and gave them an extra 30 fps over there old card. Maybe you've just accepted all this as nothing more than a pissing contest but is there a real reason? Graphics cards and CPU's that can run 100 fps or more in UT2K3, 150 fps or more in Jedi Knight II, and not to forget Quake III Arena pushing upwards of 300 fps. So why do we do it? Apart from the obvious answer (because we can!) what is the actual point of it all? I mean, let's face it; we all watch TV at around 30 fps or less, right?

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Chaos · Sep 12, 2003, 03:29 PM

Ya this is true, the never ending quest for higher FPS...... The one thing that I find over and over as the FPS increase to overall responsiveness of the game improves, I understand that we may not be able to see a difference but you sure can feel the difference, especially during heavy action situations

Rayder · Sep 12, 2003, 03:49 PM

If you are like me and are missing some parts of an eye(very few of you, I'm sure

), the refresh requirement goes up for the bad eye and down for the good eye. Trust me on this. I am missing the iris and lens in my right eye. This essentially makes me blind in that eye, I can see out of it, just no focus or light filtering. But it also seemed to goof up the averaging that the human eye does to light pulses. For instance, I cannot detect a flicker from a monitor at 75hz in my good eye, but to my bad eye it appears to flicker. Flourescent lights ALL flicker according to my bad eye, but if I close my bad eye, I detect no flicker. Another example is the fan in my window. With my good eye, I cannot see the fins of the fan as it spins, I just see right through it. But my bad eye sees the fins (blurry though they may be) flickering and I can also determine the direction of rotation.

Color and light intensity are greatly effected by your iris (the color part of your eye). Depending on the color of your eyes, there are some colors you may not see with the same intensity as someone with different color eyes. For example, my eyes are blue, but I no longer have that blue iris in my right eye. So colors with alot of blue tones in them appear quite intense with my bad eye. It's pretty cool actually, they can change to some quite intense blues indeed. Example: I use the blue 'default' DriverHeaven theme. While writing this message, if I close my good eye and look at it(I just see the color, not the text), the background blue looks about the same color as the smilies do to my good eye. The smilies themselves take on a sky-blue appearance to my bad eye.

Now assume that I put a patch over my bad eye. Suddenly I see like everyone else, right? WRONG. For one thing, I only see in 2D instead of 3D. Also, my framerate requirements go down. One eye can't process as much information as two eyes. So I can get away with playing a game at a lower framerate without it bothering me so much. But on the flip side, real life objects in motion will appear to motion-blur sooner and at slower speeds.

So, knowing all this, It's my theory that people with darker color eyes see at a more filtered (or lower) framerate and require more light to see and may see no flicker at 72hz. And a person with lighter color eyes will see at a less filtered (or higher) framerate and require less light to see and may see flicker at 72hz. This would be my guess as to why 72hz may be the average 'flicker-free' framerate, but is actually different for every person.

This is just something I have a bit of a 'unique' knowledge of, and I thought I'd share it.

(Off-topic experiment)
Want to know what it's like to be blind in one eye?
This Halloween, dress as a pirate (or something similar) with a patch over one eye. LEAVE THAT PATCH ON ALL DAY! Resist the urge to remove it. (NOTE: DO NOT drive that way) Try to play some catch or frisbee or tennis or even walk up and down unfamiliar stairs, walk over some uneven ground. See how many times you will stumble or bump your shoulder into walls as you walk through a doorway or knock over a glass when you reach for it. If you're lucky, you may even experience some really trippy optical illusions because of your inability to determine distance correctly(you'll have to experience them to understand). Imagine having to live every day of your life that way.
If you try this little 'experiment', realise this; It would take about 6-12 months to learn to deal with the lack of a 3rd dimension and to gain a psuedo-3D and regain a form of depth perception.

BWX · Sep 12, 2003, 08:25 PM

Uhhh, the only reason to push a game to higher than 100fps is so you can pile on the eye-candy goodness, and push the frames down as far as you can stand while still having as much eye-candy as possible..

If it weren't for pushing Q3 to 400fps, you wouldn't be able to run MOH, JKJA, CoD, U2k3, or any other current game worth playing at 70 fps with 4xAA and 16xAF @ 1280 x 1024 with all "sliders" set to max and ALL settings INCLUDING VOLUMETRIC SHADOWS set to max.. In fact, on the top of the line system made, there are games that if you max out the settings completely, the FPS is unacceptable.

That is unacceptable.

We need 1000fps, 2000fps, 4000fps in Q3 so that in HL2 and D3 and other future games we can get 70FPS w/ ALL settings maxed at a high resolution. The way we all want to see it.. Why else should we pay 400 freeking bucks for a video card or GPU?

That's why we need high FPS.

And 72PFS is no where near flicker free to me either- sometimes 85 hz is borderline.

MSX · Sep 12, 2003, 08:33 PM

Well ,I see great, but I have the same problem with flickering. My monitor needs to be at 80hz the at my monitor doesn't 'buzz'. It doesn't hurt or anything... but its really annoying.

Heh, though. A friend of mine has a similar issue to you Raydar, cept his eyes fill with blood every time he strains himself. It has to do with his diabetes. He can see out of one eye most of the time and he's a CS god...

tek · Sep 12, 2003, 08:51 PM

100FPS is fine for me, the only thing that bothers me is the FPS dropping to like 20fps when I come to a point with like 10 people in the picture, or a bomb exploding, or a fire, pisses me the f**k off, fix that sh*t with some drivers or something, lol.

Sep 12, 2003, 02:01 PM	#1
Dom DriverHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 12,940 Rep Power: 0	FPS: The Quest for more Anyone who even remotely follows PC hardware websites/magazines will have noticed that a lot of the high end items for computers are tested for there ability to improve frame rates in games. You've probably seen in forums or heard from your friends about the latest drivers for there system, and how many extra frames per second (or FPS) they got from them. About how the Latest Video Card supports such and such and gave them an extra 30 fps over there old card. Maybe you've just accepted all this as nothing more than a pissing contest but is there a real reason? Graphics cards and CPU's that can run 100 fps or more in UT2K3, 150 fps or more in Jedi Knight II, and not to forget Quake III Arena pushing upwards of 300 fps. So why do we do it? Apart from the obvious answer (because we can!) what is the actual point of it all? I mean, let's face it; we all watch TV at around 30 fps or less, right? Read More...

Sep 12, 2003, 03:29 PM	#2
Chaos Number Nine Join Date: May 2002 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 5,268 Rep Power: 167 System Specs	Ya this is true, the never ending quest for higher FPS...... The one thing that I find over and over as the FPS increase to overall responsiveness of the game improves, I understand that we may not be able to see a difference but you sure can feel the difference, especially during heavy action situations __________________

Sep 12, 2003, 08:25 PM	#4
BWX unplugged Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: USNY Posts: 19,669 Rep Power: 110 System Specs	Uhhh, the only reason to push a game to higher than 100fps is so you can pile on the eye-candy goodness, and push the frames down as far as you can stand while still having as much eye-candy as possible.. If it weren't for pushing Q3 to 400fps, you wouldn't be able to run MOH, JKJA, CoD, U2k3, or any other current game worth playing at 70 fps with 4xAA and 16xAF @ 1280 x 1024 with all "sliders" set to max and ALL settings INCLUDING VOLUMETRIC SHADOWS set to max.. In fact, on the top of the line system made, there are games that if you max out the settings completely, the FPS is unacceptable. That is unacceptable. We need 1000fps, 2000fps, 4000fps in Q3 so that in HL2 and D3 and other future games we can get 70FPS w/ ALL settings maxed at a high resolution. The way we all want to see it.. Why else should we pay 400 freeking bucks for a video card or GPU? That's why we need high FPS. And 72PFS is no where near flicker free to me either- sometimes 85 hz is borderline. __________________ Last edited by BWX; Sep 12, 2003 at 08:33 PM.

Sep 12, 2003, 08:51 PM	#6
tek DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: Boston, US Posts: 2,103 Rep Power: 0	100FPS is fine for me, the only thing that bothers me is the FPS dropping to like 20fps when I come to a point with like 10 people in the picture, or a bomb exploding, or a fire, pisses me the f*k off, fix that sht with some drivers or something, lol. __________________ [COLOR=White][/COLOR]

Sep 12, 2003, 03:49 PM	#3
Rayder Mostly lurking lately.... Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: U.S.A. Posts: 2,161 Rep Power: 73	If you are like me and are missing some parts of an eye(very few of you, I'm sure ), the refresh requirement goes up for the bad eye and down for the good eye. Trust me on this. I am missing the iris and lens in my right eye. This essentially makes me blind in that eye, I can see out of it, just no focus or light filtering. But it also seemed to goof up the averaging that the human eye does to light pulses. For instance, I cannot detect a flicker from a monitor at 75hz in my good eye, but to my bad eye it appears to flicker. Flourescent lights ALL flicker according to my bad eye, but if I close my bad eye, I detect no flicker. Another example is the fan in my window. With my good eye, I cannot see the fins of the fan as it spins, I just see right through it. But my bad eye sees the fins (blurry though they may be) flickering and I can also determine the direction of rotation. Color and light intensity are greatly effected by your iris (the color part of your eye). Depending on the color of your eyes, there are some colors you may not see with the same intensity as someone with different color eyes. For example, my eyes are blue, but I no longer have that blue iris in my right eye. So colors with alot of blue tones in them appear quite intense with my bad eye. It's pretty cool actually, they can change to some quite intense blues indeed. Example: I use the blue 'default' DriverHeaven theme. While writing this message, if I close my good eye and look at it(I just see the color, not the text), the background blue looks about the same color as the smilies do to my good eye. The smilies themselves take on a sky-blue appearance to my bad eye. Now assume that I put a patch over my bad eye. Suddenly I see like everyone else, right? WRONG. For one thing, I only see in 2D instead of 3D. Also, my framerate requirements go down. One eye can't process as much information as two eyes. So I can get away with playing a game at a lower framerate without it bothering me so much. But on the flip side, real life objects in motion will appear to motion-blur sooner and at slower speeds. So, knowing all this, It's my theory that people with darker color eyes see at a more filtered (or lower) framerate and require more light to see and may see no flicker at 72hz. And a person with lighter color eyes will see at a less filtered (or higher) framerate and require less light to see and may see flicker at 72hz. This would be my guess as to why 72hz may be the average 'flicker-free' framerate, but is actually different for every person. This is just something I have a bit of a 'unique' knowledge of, and I thought I'd share it. (Off-topic experiment) Want to know what it's like to be blind in one eye? This Halloween, dress as a pirate (or something similar) with a patch over one eye. LEAVE THAT PATCH ON ALL DAY! Resist the urge to remove it. (NOTE: DO NOT drive that way) Try to play some catch or frisbee or tennis or even walk up and down unfamiliar stairs, walk over some uneven ground. See how many times you will stumble or bump your shoulder into walls as you walk through a doorway or knock over a glass when you reach for it. If you're lucky, you may even experience some really trippy optical illusions because of your inability to determine distance correctly(you'll have to experience them to understand). Imagine having to live every day of your life that way. If you try this little 'experiment', realise this; It would take about 6-12 months to learn to deal with the lack of a 3rd dimension and to gain a psuedo-3D and regain a form of depth perception.

Sep 12, 2003, 08:33 PM	#5
MSX Burning the frozen... Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 1,201 Rep Power: 0	Well ,I see great, but I have the same problem with flickering. My monitor needs to be at 80hz the at my monitor doesn't 'buzz'. It doesn't hurt or anything... but its really annoying. Heh, though. A friend of mine has a similar issue to you Raydar, cept his eyes fill with blood every time he strains himself. It has to do with his diabetes. He can see out of one eye most of the time and he's a CS god...