Aquamark3 Preview and Performance Comparison @ Driverheaven

***Veridian3*** · Sep 13, 2003, 03:29 PM

On Monday Massive Development will release Aquamark3 to the public, click read more to view our preview. The article features 96/97/98 series Radeon cards and a FX 5900Ultra as well as driver comparisons for each manufacturer. Additionally there is a very interesting image quality comparison.

Click here

comment

Cereal Killer · Sep 13, 2003, 03:47 PM

That is one big difference in IQ!!!

Things just keep getting better and better for nVidia! LOL

dipstick · Sep 13, 2003, 03:58 PM

Nice preview bud! That last page does hurt, too bad for nVidia

~~HawK~~ · Sep 13, 2003, 04:08 PM

Great work again Guy's !!
applaud

Cereal Killer · Sep 13, 2003, 04:17 PM

3DGPU just released a similar preview on AM3 and this is their conclusion:

Quote:

The Detonator 51.75 drivers loses even more details over the 45.33 drivers. Especially note how the green on the foreground landrover is darker than the other two shots. Now, these drivers are beta, and not available to the public, so let's hope by the time they're released, the lowered image quality won't be in them. Because frankly, I'm just shocked how much better the Radeon 9800 Pro looks over the new Detonator 50 drivers on a GeForce FX 5600 Ultra, and any self-respecting gamer will choose the image quality on the Radeon 9800 Pro anyday.

nVidia has done it now....

Read the preview HERE

shuki · Sep 13, 2003, 04:58 PM

H U G E

great job Veridian and Zardon

Chaos · Sep 13, 2003, 05:53 PM

Damm with each images you can see the quality decrease, I notice the terrain area as much or more than the surface of the craft....I see darkening on the ship but blurring or blotching in the terrain

ToshiroOC · Sep 13, 2003, 06:10 PM

Impressive detective work, y'all

tek · Sep 13, 2003, 06:38 PM

NICE last page.

Z is tearin em down.

griswoold · Sep 13, 2003, 08:18 PM

hi,

I would like to know if the "texture sharpening" option was enabled with the 44.03,45.33 drivers. It seems that the overall texture quality is a bit better with the det44.03,45.33 drivers compared to the cat3.7.

Maybe if the writer of the preview could check this, it would be much appreciated

thank you

ps: the texture sharpening for those who don' know will put the AF level a stage higher. For example using 4xAF with texture sharpening is actually 8xAF. It's a really stupid option IMO with no purpose other than to confuse people.

shuki · Sep 13, 2003, 08:30 PM

http://www.hardwareheaven.com/showthre...136#post202136

direct side by side shots of the 45.23 vs. the 51.75's

***Veridian3*** · Sep 13, 2003, 10:07 PM

griswoold,

Check your PM.

Stu

Mac Daddy · Sep 13, 2003, 10:18 PM

Another excellent review ...... Aquamark3 certainly does look impressive.
When I was at ATI Greg Ellis (ATI Benchmarking manager) indicated the current benchmarks on the market certainly didn't take into consideration the advancements and features in the new generation of video card technology.

This one looks as if it does so

Again as Zardon mentioned we try to keep an open mind on the subject of Video Card Companys .. BUT ..
I find it very disconcerning that my gift from ATI a 9800nonpro still out performs the Gainward card.
At half the retail cost ...

And concerning the new Det releases I certainly hope to hear some feed back from Nvidia.
I would be very disappointed if I was still running my G2 400mmx ............ quite frankly guys ..
The screenshots of the 5900 didn't look any better than on my G2 ....
Nvidia needs to apply more focus on IQ ..... and for Derek Perez(who I have been in contact with) or any other employee of Nvidia ..

I say this simply and without bias .......

Oh Veridian3 ... Zardon ..... Great article guys !!!

Balderdash · Sep 13, 2003, 10:19 PM

I know that you are already aware of this (via the futuremark forum) but for the others here ...

Have you guys noticed that the 3.4 and 3.7 IQ isn't as good as the 4403 and 4523 IQ? STOP! Before you start posting flames at my stupidity, watch the flash video from the aquamark3 review again. This time stare/watch the yellow and black "caution stripes" on the left wing. The order of quality goes like this:

4403/4523 (tie for first)
3.4/3.7 (tie for 3rd)
..
..
..
5175 (last place by several spaces).

Isn't that the wierdest thing you thought you'd never see? the nvidia card actually produces better IQ than the 3.4 and 3.7 when using the driver currently avaible at nvidia?

Zardon · Sep 13, 2003, 10:29 PM

yes we have noticed it, and will speak with ATI about it.

***Veridian3*** · Sep 13, 2003, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Balderdash
This time stare/watch the yellow and black "caution stripes" on the left wing. The order of quality goes like this:

4403/4523 (tie for first)
3.4/3.7 (tie for 3rd)
..
..
..
5175 (last place by several spaces).

Isn't that the wierdest thing you thought you'd never see? the nvidia card actually produces better IQ than the 3.4 and 3.7 when using the driver currently avaible at nvidia?

Balderdash is correct, i'd like to add however that we've contacted ATI about this texture with the stripes to find out why its worse. I'd also like to point out that throughout all of the screenshots we have that stripe section is the only texture that is worse quality than the FX. All of the rest are equal or better quality on the Radeons.

Stu

griswoold · Sep 13, 2003, 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Veridian3
Balderdash is correct, i'd like to add however that we've contacted ATI about this texture with the stripes to find out why its worse. I'd also like to point out that throughout all of the screenshots we have that stripe section is the only texture that is worse quality than the FX. All of the rest are equal or better quality on the Radeons.

Stu

i checked some shots and the 45.xx have a general better texture quality than cat3.7 , i still suspect a different AF level or different mipmap LOD.

I've seen many AF comparison between nvidia and ati and usual they are pretty much equal in quality at the same AF level at 0Â°,45Â°,90Â° angles. There is definitively something going on because the difference is too obvious

note: You have also to be aware that ati has alittle different AF implementation than nvidia. The AF level is not consistent at all angles on ati's what will reduce quality on some places compared to nvidias AF. This reduce in quality is not driver related but a hardware limitation. i think that's what you see at the stripe texture

The_Neon_Cowboy · Sep 14, 2003, 12:57 AM

monday awwww

***Veridian3*** · Sep 14, 2003, 02:31 AM

The screenshots posted should contain no aa/af on both cards. (Unless there is a driver bug thats always causing it to be enabled - unlikely)

Stu

Balderdash · Sep 14, 2003, 04:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Veridian3
The screenshots posted should contain no aa/af on both cards. (Unless there is a driver bug thats always causing it to be enabled - unlikely)

Stu

I agree.

I've been thinking though...

Is there any possibility of IQ degrading from the flash video process? no?

Or, maybe you guys should post pictures of the same scene from each card (and driver I suppose) provided you already have them, like the two shots you posted below the flash video player, but in mass of all card/driver combos.

In other words, Let us help you search the screenies.

I know the main search has been for the difference betwenn 4523 and 5175, but now I think that all of the drivers should be scanned. Maybe even including older drivers then originally included. (I've got people telling me that they think that the cats have been get blurrier since 3.2, but they thought it was their system specific problems before and didn't make a fuss about it).

In my opinion, we don't even need to discuss the 5175 drivers anymore, unless they can be improved via DVI settings, they look like a lost cause to me as they are obviously very, very bad IQ wise.

Dom · Sep 14, 2003, 04:49 AM

Seems nVidia have increased FPS in sacrifice of IQ...again... when will they learn...

Vampyromaniac · Sep 14, 2003, 05:24 AM

Wow, great job guys

toddsmack2k · Sep 14, 2003, 06:37 AM

Excellent stuff Veridian and Zardon! As Always looking more in depth into it than others!

Zardon · Sep 14, 2003, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Balderdash
I agree.

I've been thinking though...

Is there any possibility of IQ degrading from the flash video process? no?

no, if you download the rar archives you will have at your disposal the original source images, the flash video "example" is merely for those unwilling to download the 20meg rars to study all the files and frames themselves and the flash is done at the highest quality possible (if in fact you download some of the rars and follow my simple PS guide you will see the finished images you end up with in photoshop will be identical to the flash imagery). There is also a quick example as you said under the flash.

We attempted to cover all the bases possible when putting that page up.

1. Rars with original source targa files, for those really into it and wanting to study a wider frame selection.
2. the flash visualisation for a quick overview for those unwilling or unable to study the targas.
3. a quick visual representation under the flash to show the IQ of the 51.75 compared to an older set.

MoxPearl · Sep 14, 2003, 01:05 PM

wow @ those benchmark increases...

Not dodgy at all is it ? *Cough* :P

Chaos · Sep 14, 2003, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MoxPearl
wow @ those benchmark increases...

Not dodgy at all is it ? *Cough* :P

Off topic but you signature image looks a tad on the large size

PoopyTheJ · Sep 14, 2003, 05:01 PM

Great Job guys! Damn, nvidia is really getting their asses handed to them. How about a comparison with the Omega drivers of various sets and IQ? that would rock! Wasn't there something about Nvidia hardware only running Doom3 at 12bit or something along those lines? I was just reading a performance comparison over at HardOCP and didn't see anything about poor image quaility. Just wondering.

Also, Welcome Mox Pearl! Stick around and enjoy!

gunther · Sep 14, 2003, 10:59 PM

nVidia will just blow this off as another smear campaign against them.

In the end, fps count is only thing that matters to general public..

Zardon · Sep 15, 2003, 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by gunther
nVidia will just blow this off as another smear campaign against them.

In the end, fps count is only thing that matters to general public..

you may have a point with the fps comment.........

well I hope they dont class this as a "smear" campaign that could not be further from the truth, I try as best I can to work with them to improve support to the end user, we merely presented the facts which in course do not show the new drivers in a good light, its really their own decision to mess with the IQ and substantially lower it, so they have no one to "blame". Im not lying for any company, never have and I never will. The truth is what matters and if that means they will no longer work with this site, then so be it ...

Al_Vampyre · Sep 15, 2003, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Zardon
you may have a point with the fps comment.........

well I hope they dont class this as a "smear" campaign that could not be further from the truth, I try as best I can to work with them to improve support to the end user, we merely presented the facts which in course do not show the new drivers in a good light, its really their own decision to mess with the IQ and substantially lower it, so they have no one to "blame". Im not lying for any company, never have and I never will. The truth is what matters and if that means they will no longer work with this site, then so be it ...

Well said Z, and great work guys, it was a fascinating article

Sep 13, 2003, 03:29 PM	#1
*Veridian3* Administrator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Cloaked Posts: 5,028 Rep Power: 181	Aquamark3 Preview and Performance Comparison @ Driverheaven On Monday Massive Development will release Aquamark3 to the public, click read more to view our preview. The article features 96/97/98 series Radeon cards and a FX 5900Ultra as well as driver comparisons for each manufacturer. Additionally there is a very interesting image quality comparison. Click here comment

Sep 13, 2003, 03:47 PM	#2
Cereal Killer [DH] Catalyst Beta Tester Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Mississauga, Ontario Posts: 248 Rep Power: 0	That is one big difference in IQ!!! Things just keep getting better and better for nVidia! LOL __________________ AMD Athlon XP 1700+ @ 2.53GHz (11.5x220 @ 1.95V) Thermalright SP-97 w/ TT SmartFan II Abit NF7-S Rev. 2.0 2x512MB GeIL PC3500 Platinum Dual DDR ATI Radeon 9700 PRO 360GB WD 8MB SATA HDDs RAID 0 Sound Blaster Audigy 2 Sony E500 21" Monitor WinXP Pro SP1

Sep 13, 2003, 05:53 PM	#7
Chaos Number Nine Join Date: May 2002 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 5,268 Rep Power: 167 System Specs	Damm with each images you can see the quality decrease, I notice the terrain area as much or more than the surface of the craft....I see darkening on the ship but blurring or blotching in the terrain __________________

Sep 13, 2003, 06:10 PM	#8
ToshiroOC Unbiased. Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 4,812 Rep Power: 0	Impressive detective work, y'all __________________ [img][/img] [color=White]Peace be with you, Joe.[/color] Driverheaven Staff Member (Supermoderator)

Sep 13, 2003, 06:38 PM	#9
tek DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: Boston, US Posts: 2,103 Rep Power: 0	NICE last page. Z is tearin em down. __________________ [COLOR=White][/COLOR]

Sep 13, 2003, 03:58 PM	#3
dipstick HardwareHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: USA Posts: 3,609 Rep Power: 71 System Specs	Nice preview bud! That last page does hurt, too bad for nVidia

Sep 13, 2003, 04:08 PM	#4
~~HawK~~ Banned Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 2,092 Rep Power: 0	Great work again Guy's !! applaud

Sep 13, 2003, 04:58 PM	#6
shuki DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: in the hidden place Posts: 1,975 Rep Power: 0	H U G E great job Veridian and Zardon

Sep 13, 2003, 08:18 PM	#10
griswoold mr. vÃ¶gi Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 161 Rep Power: 0	hi, I would like to know if the "texture sharpening" option was enabled with the 44.03,45.33 drivers. It seems that the overall texture quality is a bit better with the det44.03,45.33 drivers compared to the cat3.7. Maybe if the writer of the preview could check this, it would be much appreciated thank you ps: the texture sharpening for those who don' know will put the AF level a stage higher. For example using 4xAF with texture sharpening is actually 8xAF. It's a really stupid option IMO with no purpose other than to confuse people.

Sep 13, 2003, 08:30 PM	#11
shuki DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: in the hidden place Posts: 1,975 Rep Power: 0	http://www.hardwareheaven.com/showthre...136#post202136 direct side by side shots of the 45.23 vs. the 51.75's

Sep 13, 2003, 10:07 PM	Thread Starter #12
*Veridian3* Administrator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Cloaked Posts: 5,028 Rep Power: 181	griswoold, Check your PM. Stu

Sep 13, 2003, 10:18 PM	#13
Mac Daddy DriverHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 7,950 Rep Power: 79 System Specs	Another excellent review ...... Aquamark3 certainly does look impressive. When I was at ATI Greg Ellis (ATI Benchmarking manager) indicated the current benchmarks on the market certainly didn't take into consideration the advancements and features in the new generation of video card technology. This one looks as if it does so Again as Zardon mentioned we try to keep an open mind on the subject of Video Card Companys .. BUT .. I find it very disconcerning that my gift from ATI a 9800nonpro still out performs the Gainward card. At half the retail cost ... And concerning the new Det releases I certainly hope to hear some feed back from Nvidia. I would be very disappointed if I was still running my G2 400mmx ............ quite frankly guys .. The screenshots of the 5900 didn't look any better than on my G2 .... Nvidia needs to apply more focus on IQ ..... and for Derek Perez(who I have been in contact with) or any other employee of Nvidia .. I say this simply and without bias ....... Oh Veridian3 ... Zardon ..... Great article guys !!! __________________ "My mom said the only reason men are alive is for lawn care and vehicle maintenance." - Tim Allen

Sep 13, 2003, 10:19 PM	#14
Balderdash DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: MN Posts: 5 Rep Power: 0	I know that you are already aware of this (via the futuremark forum) but for the others here ... Have you guys noticed that the 3.4 and 3.7 IQ isn't as good as the 4403 and 4523 IQ? STOP! Before you start posting flames at my stupidity, watch the flash video from the aquamark3 review again. This time stare/watch the yellow and black "caution stripes" on the left wing. The order of quality goes like this: 4403/4523 (tie for first) 3.4/3.7 (tie for 3rd) .. .. .. 5175 (last place by several spaces). Isn't that the wierdest thing you thought you'd never see? the nvidia card actually produces better IQ than the 3.4 and 3.7 when using the driver currently avaible at nvidia?

Sep 13, 2003, 10:29 PM	#15
Zardon DriverHeaven Founder Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 32,480 Rep Power: 179	yes we have noticed it, and will speak with ATI about it.

Sep 14, 2003, 12:57 AM	#18
The_Neon_Cowboy HardwareHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: U.S.A. Posts: 16,009 Rep Power: 92 System Specs	monday awwww __________________

Sep 14, 2003, 05:24 AM	#22
Vampyromaniac confutatis maledictis Join Date: May 2002 Location: somewhere dark Posts: 5,974 Rep Power: 77 System Specs	Wow, great job guys __________________ *Digitalis 3.3* Athlon 64 3000 // ASUS K8V SE Deluxe // 1024MB PC3200 (2-2-2-10 1T) ATI All-In-Wonder 9700 Pro // 20" Dell 2005FPW (DVI) M-Audio Revo 7.1 + Philips Acoustic Edge // Klipsch ProMedia 2.1 320/16 Western Digital WD3200KS + 120/8 Seagate 7200.7 NEC ND-3550A 16x DVD±RW + Lite-On 52x24x CD-RW Antec Sonata case // 480W Antec TruePower personal bests \|\| Aq'3: 46796 \| 3D'01: 20461 \| 3D'03: 6336 \| 3D'05: 2677 \| PC'04: 4605 \| PC'02: 7691,9092,1250

Sep 14, 2003, 02:31 AM	Thread Starter #19
*Veridian3* Administrator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Cloaked Posts: 5,028 Rep Power: 181	The screenshots posted should contain no aa/af on both cards. (Unless there is a driver bug thats always causing it to be enabled - unlikely) Stu

Sep 14, 2003, 04:49 AM	#21
Dom DriverHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 12,940 Rep Power: 0	Excellent article, Stu Seems nVidia have increased FPS in sacrifice of IQ...again... when will they learn...

Sep 14, 2003, 06:37 AM	#23
toddsmack2k It Never..... Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Kentucky Posts: 3,173 Rep Power: 0	Excellent stuff Veridian and Zardon! As Always looking more in depth into it than others! __________________ [color=blue]*Bleeding From the Inside Pouring Out, The* *DriverHeaven* Spiral, We Shall Never Let Go Of.[/color]

Sep 14, 2003, 01:05 PM	#25
MoxPearl DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 1 Rep Power: 0	wow @ those benchmark increases... Not dodgy at all is it ? Cough :P

Sep 14, 2003, 05:01 PM	#27
PoopyTheJ DriverHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,588 Rep Power: 66	Great Job guys! Damn, nvidia is really getting their asses handed to them. How about a comparison with the Omega drivers of various sets and IQ? that would rock! Wasn't there something about Nvidia hardware only running Doom3 at 12bit or something along those lines? I was just reading a performance comparison over at HardOCP and didn't see anything about poor image quaility. Just wondering. Also, Welcome Mox Pearl! Stick around and enjoy! __________________ [COLOR=Blue]“Alright boys, let’s start her up and see why she doesn’t work.” - John Fritz "I aim to misbehave" Malcolm Reynolds ATI Catalyst Beta Tester[/COLOR] Last edited by PoopyTheJ; Sep 14, 2003 at 05:09 PM.

Sep 14, 2003, 10:59 PM	#28
gunther DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: error. Posts: 50 Rep Power: 0	nVidia will just blow this off as another smear campaign against them. In the end, fps count is only thing that matters to general public..