Evolution: AT, ATX, BTX! Say hello to your new computer

DriveEuro · Sep 19, 2003, 09:03 PM

Yup, they are TOTALLY chaning the way we use our computers now... Finally they are smart enough to put the CPU on the bottom of the case.... Only took about 10 years.....

This is an EXCELLENT read. Can someone put this in news for me?
Here

Zardon · Sep 19, 2003, 10:28 PM

Thanks to board member Driveuro for bringing this to our attention from an article over at Anandtech.

For years we've bought motherboards and installed them in cases based on the ATX (Advanced Technology eXtended) form factor. The move to ATX brought huge improvements over the previous AT standard not only in the cases, but in power supplies as well.

As is made evident by the proliferation of Small Form Factor (SFF) machines into the market, the need for a smaller, quieter successor to ATX has been building over the past 8 years. A couple of IDFs ago, Intel announced their development of the successor to ATX, which was codenamed Big Water. At the Fall 2003 Intel Developer Forum, Intel officially branded Big Water as the Balanced Technology eXtended form factor - or BTX for short.

With BTX motherboards and cases due out next year, it's time to start learning about what's changed with BTX and, what improvements the specification offers over ATX.

Read here

Zardon · Sep 19, 2003, 10:30 PM

threads merged

@/2ct!< · Sep 20, 2003, 12:59 AM

Ooh, wtf took them so long to figure out the coolest air would be best for the cpu and graphics board :duh

MSX · Sep 20, 2003, 03:44 AM

Looks promising... but if I were them I'd segregate the north bridge and the video chipset with their own fans and exhaust ports. GPU's are going to be much hotter than CPU's in a few years I'd imagine... I'm also not going to touch the pico or micro with a 10 foot pole.

@/2ct!< · Sep 20, 2003, 04:46 AM

Yeah, micro and pico must be small, the standard is only a midtower, guess full tower no more?

AshG · Sep 20, 2003, 05:26 AM

I finally get a power supply I like, and along comes a new standard.... What next, my 9800 Pro will be obselete? AAAARGH!

Heh, seriously; I've been wondering about this change for ages. The one smart thing I liked about my old K6 systems were that the chip/hsf were right there in front of the front intake fan. I never understood why the CPU was moved to the top of the motherboard, right under one of the hottest parts of the computer.

Zardon · Sep 20, 2003, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by AshG
I finallyI never understood why the CPU was moved to the top of the motherboard, right under one of the hottest parts of the computer.

I have always thought the same thing ........

Judas · Sep 20, 2003, 10:05 AM

....i'm still wondering about the placement of the ram..... i think it's in an undersiable spot.....but you never know till you get it mounted and feel around....

Matth · Sep 20, 2003, 04:33 PM

http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.html?i=1876&p=3
Doesn't that rear panel look MESSY - and PLEASE lets not get back to having risers!

Brings back memories, my old AT case and board were equipped to aim the intake fan at the CPU.

One question, is PCI Express "open" - if not, it could very well go the way of MCA.

Personally, I'm resistant to "legacy free" - just try using one of the HD drive makers install utilities, which generally do not support a USB mouse.

The place for a keyboard is on a keyboard port, and the place for a mouse is on a mouse port - mind you (shock horror) I do have a USB printer now.

FuNsTeR · Sep 20, 2003, 05:38 PM

looks horrendous

... the layout of the case is shocking

JavaFox · Sep 20, 2003, 06:08 PM

I think it looks horrible.

JavaFox · Sep 20, 2003, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AshG
I finally get a power supply I like, and along comes a new standard....

The power pinout is the same. If a BTX case will take your PSU, you'll be able to use it with your new BTX motherboard.

DriveEuro · Sep 20, 2003, 06:27 PM

It might look horrible but it prolly stays cooler.

ztride · Sep 20, 2003, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DriveEuro
It might look horrible but it prolly stays cooler.

it looks skinny..

I like the fat look..

JavaFox · Sep 20, 2003, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DriveEuro
It might look horrible but it prolly stays cooler.

Do you think moving the CPU down six inches will really affect things much?

And risers? Why?

@/2ct!< · Sep 20, 2003, 08:34 PM

Arent risers only for old components from ATX cases?

DriveEuro · Sep 20, 2003, 09:55 PM

Almost everyone on this forum has ATX cases @/2ct!< (Damn that was a chore to type out)

Are you reffering to the risers that would allow BTX cases to use ATX mobos?

Matth · Sep 20, 2003, 11:11 PM

The riser is a truly evil device last seen on "Pizza Box" flatline desktops - carrying the cards horizontally.

Internal layout was always a nightmare, with the cards awkward to fit and remove - especially if there were "reverse side" slots that were even more obstructed. If you came in after that era, you probably don't remember risers, but nobody that does would have a single good word for that layout.

Jeff · Sep 21, 2003, 01:02 AM

Risers are evil, and I can't see myself ever willingly purchasing a mobo with them on it, unless there was absolutely nothing else.

I think they should have moved the CPU/Memory to the bottom, and the slots to the top, and left everything else the same.

EDIT: Though looking at the microBTX cases on http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.html?i=1876&p=5 it looks like there are no risers on it...

Judas · Sep 21, 2003, 05:50 AM

OK..wait.... i think they've messed up in the design scamatics... or something... i thought that the CPU and Ram are at the bottom...along with the usb and whatnot.... basically reverse of what we have now.... and then the Addin cards are at the top..... but looking at those cases (btw, they are micro BTX...no normal BTX) i'm tottally confused.... AND i'm totally sure that you don't HAVE to put a riser card in....that only for horzontally laid out... i think they are just saying that the new BTX setup will be easy to migrate into both vertical/horizontal cases...

@/2ct!< · Sep 21, 2003, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DriveEuro
Almost everyone on this forum has ATX cases @/2ct!< (Damn that was a chore to type out) Are you reffering to the risers that would allow BTX cases to use ATX mobos?

I actually have no idea

, I dunno even what risers are really. First time I read it seemed like if you wanted to use things from an ATX, you would need to have risers for it in a BTX, ill shut up now

~~craig588~~ · Sep 21, 2003, 05:12 PM

Wouldn't risers also increase latencys and make it more difficult to get high speeds?

Judas · Sep 22, 2003, 12:33 AM

yes

JavaFox · Sep 22, 2003, 12:43 PM

We can't stop the tide of progress, I guess, but I, for one, am not looking forward to this BTX business.

Judas · Sep 22, 2003, 02:06 PM

well... i am....if the way that i think there designing them....is the way they will be..... The whole article...was rather crap if you ask me.... it was rather confusing.... didn't make much sence in a few places...

DriveEuro · Sep 22, 2003, 02:25 PM

I don't think they are gonna kill off ATX right away.....

Sep 19, 2003, 09:03 PM	#1
DriveEuro HardwareHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Gurnee Illinois Posts: 4,677 Rep Power: 0	Evolution: AT, ATX, BTX! Say hello to your new computer Yup, they are TOTALLY chaning the way we use our computers now... Finally they are smart enough to put the CPU on the bottom of the case.... Only took about 10 years..... This is an EXCELLENT read. Can someone put this in news for me? Here __________________ [color=orange]ASUS P4P800 Deluxe [color=black]-[/color] 2.4C --> 3300mhz [color=black]-[/color] Mushkin PC3200 at 220 5-2-2-2 (cpu limited) [color=black]-[/color] BBAti 9800Pro at 430/375 [/color] [color=black]3[/color][color=gray]D[/color]M[color=black]a[/color][color=gray]r[/color]k[color=yellow]01[/color] [color=black]3[/color][color=gray]D[/color]M[color=black]a[/color][color=gray]r[/color]k[color=yellow]03[/color] 16001200 12801024

Sep 19, 2003, 10:28 PM	#2
Zardon DriverHeaven Founder Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 32,480 Rep Power: 179	Evolution: AT, ATX, BTX! Say hello to your new computer Thanks to board member Driveuro for bringing this to our attention from an article over at Anandtech. For years we've bought motherboards and installed them in cases based on the ATX (Advanced Technology eXtended) form factor. The move to ATX brought huge improvements over the previous AT standard not only in the cases, but in power supplies as well. As is made evident by the proliferation of Small Form Factor (SFF) machines into the market, the need for a smaller, quieter successor to ATX has been building over the past 8 years. A couple of IDFs ago, Intel announced their development of the successor to ATX, which was codenamed Big Water. At the Fall 2003 Intel Developer Forum, Intel officially branded Big Water as the Balanced Technology eXtended form factor - or BTX for short. With BTX motherboards and cases due out next year, it's time to start learning about what's changed with BTX and, what improvements the specification offers over ATX. Read here

Sep 20, 2003, 12:59 AM	#4
@/2ct!< HardwareHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Not Vegas, anymore :( Posts: 1,391 Rep Power: 0	Ooh, wtf took them so long to figure out the coolest air would be best for the cpu and graphics board :duh __________________

Sep 20, 2003, 04:46 AM	#6
@/2ct!< HardwareHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Not Vegas, anymore :( Posts: 1,391 Rep Power: 0	Yeah, micro and pico must be small, the standard is only a midtower, guess full tower no more? __________________

Sep 20, 2003, 05:26 AM	#7
AshG Gadget Life Owner Join Date: May 2002 Location: East TN Posts: 139 Rep Power: 0	I finally get a power supply I like, and along comes a new standard.... What next, my 9800 Pro will be obselete? AAAARGH! Heh, seriously; I've been wondering about this change for ages. The one smart thing I liked about my old K6 systems were that the chip/hsf were right there in front of the front intake fan. I never understood why the CPU was moved to the top of the motherboard, right under one of the hottest parts of the computer. __________________ [color=navy]404_Error, Signature not found[/color] [color=black][color=black]AMD AthlonXP 2500 @ 11x200[/color] - [color=navy]DFI LanParty nForce2 Ultra Rev. B[/color] - [color=black]Thermalright SLK-900A w/ Thermaltake SmartFan[/color] - [color=navy]Corsair TwinX1024 3200XLL[/color] - [color=black]FIC Radeon 9800 Pro[/color] - [color=navy]Hitachi Deskstar 7K250 SATA[/color] - [color=black]WD Raptor 36GB[/color] - [color=navy]LiteOn SOHW-832S[/color] - [color=black]PC Power and Cooling 510W Deluxe[/color] - [color=navy]CoolerMaster CMStacker Case[/color][/color]

Sep 19, 2003, 10:30 PM	#3
Zardon DriverHeaven Founder Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 32,480 Rep Power: 179	threads merged

Sep 20, 2003, 03:44 AM	#5
MSX Burning the frozen... Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 1,201 Rep Power: 0	Looks promising... but if I were them I'd segregate the north bridge and the video chipset with their own fans and exhaust ports. GPU's are going to be much hotter than CPU's in a few years I'd imagine... I'm also not going to touch the pico or micro with a 10 foot pole.

Sep 20, 2003, 04:33 PM	#10
Matth Flash Banner Hater Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: UK Posts: 3,426 Rep Power: 93 System Specs	http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.html?i=1876&p=3 Doesn't that rear panel look MESSY - and PLEASE lets not get back to having risers! Brings back memories, my old AT case and board were equipped to aim the intake fan at the CPU. One question, is PCI Express "open" - if not, it could very well go the way of MCA. Personally, I'm resistant to "legacy free" - just try using one of the HD drive makers install utilities, which generally do not support a USB mouse. The place for a keyboard is on a keyboard port, and the place for a mouse is on a mouse port - mind you (shock horror) I do have a USB printer now.

Sep 20, 2003, 05:38 PM	#11
FuNsTeR Caledonian and Proud Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Darkest Ayrshire Posts: 1,305 Rep Power: 88 System Specs	looks horrendous ... the layout of the case is shocking __________________ "They say when you play a Microsoft CD backwards you can hear satanic messages ..... but that's nothing, if you play it forward it will install Windows"

Sep 20, 2003, 06:08 PM	#12
JavaFox E Pluribus Unum Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 3,203 Rep Power: 0	I think it looks horrible.

Sep 20, 2003, 06:27 PM	Thread Starter #14
DriveEuro HardwareHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Gurnee Illinois Posts: 4,677 Rep Power: 0	It might look horrible but it prolly stays cooler. __________________ [color=orange]ASUS P4P800 Deluxe [color=black]-[/color] 2.4C --> 3300mhz [color=black]-[/color] Mushkin PC3200 at 220 5-2-2-2 (cpu limited) [color=black]-[/color] BBAti 9800Pro at 430/375 [/color] [color=black]3[/color][color=gray]D[/color]M[color=black]a[/color][color=gray]r[/color]k[color=yellow]01[/color] [color=black]3[/color][color=gray]D[/color]M[color=black]a[/color][color=gray]r[/color]k[color=yellow]03[/color] 16001200 12801024

Sep 20, 2003, 08:34 PM	#17
@/2ct!< HardwareHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Not Vegas, anymore :( Posts: 1,391 Rep Power: 0	Arent risers only for old components from ATX cases? __________________

Sep 20, 2003, 09:55 PM	Thread Starter #18
DriveEuro HardwareHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Gurnee Illinois Posts: 4,677 Rep Power: 0	Almost everyone on this forum has ATX cases @/2ct!< (Damn that was a chore to type out) Are you reffering to the risers that would allow BTX cases to use ATX mobos? __________________ [color=orange]ASUS P4P800 Deluxe [color=black]-[/color] 2.4C --> 3300mhz [color=black]-[/color] Mushkin PC3200 at 220 5-2-2-2 (cpu limited) [color=black]-[/color] BBAti 9800Pro at 430/375 [/color] [color=black]3[/color][color=gray]D[/color]M[color=black]a[/color][color=gray]r[/color]k[color=yellow]01[/color] [color=black]3[/color][color=gray]D[/color]M[color=black]a[/color][color=gray]r[/color]k[color=yellow]03[/color] 16001200 12801024

Sep 20, 2003, 11:11 PM	#19
Matth Flash Banner Hater Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: UK Posts: 3,426 Rep Power: 93 System Specs	The riser is a truly evil device last seen on "Pizza Box" flatline desktops - carrying the cards horizontally. Internal layout was always a nightmare, with the cards awkward to fit and remove - especially if there were "reverse side" slots that were even more obstructed. If you came in after that era, you probably don't remember risers, but nobody that does would have a single good word for that layout.

Sep 21, 2003, 01:02 AM	#20
Jeff Yarr... I be blind! Join Date: May 2002 Location: Calgary, Canada Posts: 3,191 Rep Power: 80	Risers are evil, and I can't see myself ever willingly purchasing a mobo with them on it, unless there was absolutely nothing else. I think they should have moved the CPU/Memory to the bottom, and the slots to the top, and left everything else the same. EDIT: Though looking at the microBTX cases on http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.html?i=1876&p=5 it looks like there are no risers on it... __________________

Sep 21, 2003, 05:12 PM	#23
~~craig588~~ Banned Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: In clothing Posts: 3,510 Rep Power: 0	Wouldn't risers also increase latencys and make it more difficult to get high speeds?

Sep 22, 2003, 12:43 PM	#25
JavaFox E Pluribus Unum Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 3,203 Rep Power: 0	We can't stop the tide of progress, I guess, but I, for one, am not looking forward to this BTX business.

Sep 22, 2003, 02:25 PM	Thread Starter #27
DriveEuro HardwareHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Gurnee Illinois Posts: 4,677 Rep Power: 0	I don't think they are gonna kill off ATX right away..... __________________ [color=orange]ASUS P4P800 Deluxe [color=black]-[/color] 2.4C --> 3300mhz [color=black]-[/color] Mushkin PC3200 at 220 5-2-2-2 (cpu limited) [color=black]-[/color] BBAti 9800Pro at 430/375 [/color] [color=black]3[/color][color=gray]D[/color]M[color=black]a[/color][color=gray]r[/color]k[color=yellow]01[/color] [color=black]3[/color][color=gray]D[/color]M[color=black]a[/color][color=gray]r[/color]k[color=yellow]03[/color] 16001200 12801024