Omega vs DNA report

kelticknight · Jan 17, 2004, 05:26 PM

l didn' feel the report ,was one way as againest killer sneak,l think unless ks smartens up,less people will use his drivers

zerodamage · Jan 17, 2004, 05:39 PM

Kombatant, to be honest, he's gotten second chances from us here at DH at well. He just blew them everytime with his attitude and hostile behavior.

swimtech · Jan 17, 2004, 06:08 PM

Nice article Neon. I especially appreciate the page on stability. I would not even consider using the DNA's based upon your experiences with stability during your testing.

The speed of the drivers during gameplay is important to me (noting that these benches can only primarily apply to a 9600XT, as ATI - and Omega - create by default different overall settings according to the card installled and sensed by the installer- I run a 7500 which means I need all the speed I can get!), but stability and smoothness of gameplay and system operations are most important to me - why?

Here I go assuming - but with high likelihood of success in the assumption.

For myself, like most (there's the assumption), the computer in my home is the only computer that everyone uses. I've a wife and four kids in the house. They all do/play different things on the computer - albeit mostly games. I just don't have the time (Poppi mentioned this consideration as well) to be rebooting the computer and/or tweaking a game setting when my 12 year old daughter, for instance (for whom playing a computer game is a welcome respite from helping to watch my two youngest, 3 and 4), hollers out "Daddy, the computer froze again" or "the game won't run". It spoils her enjoyment of the program, and also wastes the time she spent getting to a certain point in the program - and she is disappointed with the computer and with the way I have set it up to run for her. Repeat this several times throughout a day for the others in the house, and myself. You get the idea...

Computer gaming time can be a precious thing...

It seems from this review that I get not only better overall speed from the Omegadrivers, but much better stability. ATI themselves take this tack as well. They have to. Their drivers are for mass consumption and realize that things should just work.

DNA's have their place I'm sure, as he has those who, no doubt, use his drivers regularly.

I don't and won't. I have used the Omegadrivers since pre-cat days because I noted they were fast, reliable, and looked better than even ATI's own. This review is confirmation of my experience.

Thanks again Neon, and thank you Omegadrive.

My two cents, and my take on the rukus over the past several days:

I discipline my children when they get out of line too, by the way... They need that discipline to deal well with the world and with others when they grow up, to have the opportunity to be successful and respected. When they rail against proper discipline, I send them to their room and IGNORE them for awhile so they get the idea that if they don't relate their feelings and actions in a civil manner, no one will want to have anything to do with them.

Hmmm...

Kombatant · Jan 17, 2004, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by zerodamage
Kombatant, to be honest, he's gotten second chances from us here at DH at well. He just blew them everytime with his attitude and hostile behavior.

Trust me, I know

Ratchet · Jan 17, 2004, 07:04 PM

I started to read the article with the impression that it was a comparison of the various different custom driver sets vs the official ATI Catalysts. Almost immediately however it was clearly apparent that the whole point of the article was simply to discredit the KillerSneaks DNA drivers and credit Omegas. I don't have a problem with that, I think the same thing about KillerSneak as much of you do, but trying to hide the true purpose of the article under such a completely transparent veil of legitimacy is pretty lame. The article should be entitled “We think KillerSneak is a dick, here’s why you should too.”

Zardon · Jan 17, 2004, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kombatant
It's just that I feel that this report will do more harm than good in the long run. Maybe it's just me. But I had to speak my mind.

Regards.

If this article does "harm" then logically its only those who dont believe it, and I personally believe Neon and his article or I wouldnt have had it presented on this site in the first place. He is a good guy who has always proved in his articles to get to the bottom of an issue, granted he is "colourful" in his approaches, but this has always been the case, even when he exposed the temperature claims from some people to be wrong with his own indepth testing and research. He doesnt duck an issue or worry what people will think, a trap (to a certain extent) alot of us more "experienced reviewers" sometimes fall into.

People need to realise this article isnt from the viewpoint of an administrator on this site or is in fact anyway a review from a normal staff reviewer in "the team" - that would be IMO a little silly as we all know this site is omegas support forum.

Let me reiterate this article has came from an experienced end user who has spent several weeks thoroughly testing issues and drivers on his particular setup, if people feel its "corrupted" or tainted thats fine, I was well aware some people would have thought this beforehand but I felt the article was worth posting anyway, ill live with the consequences.

On another note, if anyone wants to do further testing and wants to share their findings, please feel free to contact me, if any article seems worthy and suitable for this site we will post it. I know onlynewz are doing their research into the matter and drivers are important so im interested to read their findings.

Zardon · Jan 17, 2004, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ratchet
I started to read the article with the impression that it was a comparison of the various different custom driver sets vs the official ATI Catalysts. Almost immediately however it was clearly apparent that the whole point of the article was simply to discredit the KillerSneaks DNA drivers and credit Omegas. I don't have a problem with that, I think the same thing about KillerSneak as much of you do, but trying to hide the true purpose of the article under such a completely transparent veil of legitimacy is pretty lame. The article should be entitled “We think KillerSneak is a dick, here’s why you should too.”

I have already said I thought he was unscrupulous, I dont need to waste time "getting" a forum member to do so (as appears to be the feelings some people are thinking), there were also quite a few benchmarks and other aspects to the review, perhaps you missed those pages, unless of course you felt Neon faked the benchmarks.

Asmoday · Jan 17, 2004, 07:26 PM

I for one thought that it was a very good and indepth review....way to go Neon and Roadee!!!

Ratchet · Jan 17, 2004, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Zardon
... unless of course you felt Neon faked the benchmarks.

Well, the whole direction of the article doesn't exactly scream credability.

toddsmack2k · Jan 17, 2004, 07:32 PM

It is Neon's article plain and simple. He done it himself for everyone to read. What do you find not credible about the article ratchet?

Zardon · Jan 17, 2004, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ratchet
Well, the whole direction of the article doesn't exactly scream credability.

And why would that be? because its unorthodox in its presentation? because he expresses his opinions at the end of the article based on factual information?, as far as im aware neon hasnt lied about a single aspect of anything on those pages, so if its not screaming credibility, then its due to the fact its been posted on omegas support forum and people will "assume" just like you have - its quite a shame people would think this as alot of you guys know me, and I would hope have a little respect for this site and the material we post and have posted. Im not likely to waste time forcing anyone to spend 2 weeks making omega look more credible or KS have less credibility, thats already the case.

Obviously you dont know Neon if you think he wasted two weeks faking benchmarks, which appears to be your main issue here.

Ratchet · Jan 17, 2004, 07:35 PM

You mean besides the obvious bias? Not much I guess.

BurL · Jan 17, 2004, 07:37 PM

That comparison review was great, good job neon. I don't see many reviews that lay out the facts and explain them as well a you have. The people that are trying to discredit your review are fools, you have the facts and they speak for themselves. I would like to see more reviews from you in the future, because the way you explained everthing was easy for me to understand. Thanks again for a great comparison review.

Kombatant · Jan 17, 2004, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Zardon
If this article does "harm" then logically its only those who dont believe it, and I personally believe Neon and his article or I wouldnt have had it presented on this site in the first place. He is a good guy who has always proved in his articles to get to the bottom of an issue, granted he is "colourful" in his approaches, but this has always been the case, even when he exposed the temperature claims from some people to be wrong with his own indepth testing and research. He doesnt duck an issue or worry what people will think, a trap (to a certain extent) alot of us more "experienced reviewers" sometimes fall into.

It's just that the truth in it gets lost in the way he presents it, which goes beyond "colourful". That's how it feels to me. I know who he is, we all know who he is, but it will be read by many people who don't know who he is. And it is way he presents the facts I disagree, not the facts themselves.

Ratchet · Jan 17, 2004, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kombatant
It's just that the truth in it gets lost in the way he presents it, which goes beyond "colourful". That's how it feels to me. I know who he is, we all know who he is, but it will be read by many people who don't know who he is. And it is way he presents the facts I disagree, not the facts themselves.

Yes, my thoughts exactly.

PoopyTheJ · Jan 17, 2004, 07:45 PM

Wow took me long enough I know but great article Neon! My guess for the poor showing of the DNA drivers is his disabling of Hierarchical Z in Dx. My two cents on it, I used his drivers once and wound up re-installing windows from the issues I got. I'll stick with the official cats or Omeagas even before this article but very nicely done.

Zardon · Jan 17, 2004, 07:45 PM

Thats who Neon is Kombatant, he doesnt "piss around", and I have to say I admire him for it. He doesnt waffle or get lost meandering around the issues, he just says it like it is.

Actually ill share something with you that might surprise you, the feedback ive gotten in email or PM to this point has been positive from most people, its some of the people like yourself, the more experienced journalists who have an issue with the way he has done it "his presentation" as such, and to be honest, im glad, because this was in a way meant to "shake" people up to the facts. and its worked. Thats who neon is.

I totally believe his integrity and credibility then again I know him, just like alot of our board members do. which is why even with the "grief" I knew we would get I still posted it. No one can tell me his article has no merit. its from his heart, he spent weeks of time on it and he had the balls to present his opinions at the end. I wish more reviewers would be so honest.

toddsmack2k · Jan 17, 2004, 07:53 PM

His article is brutally honest. I cannot believe some people are looking more at his commentary than what the facts speak about themselves.

HsuGotaQ · Jan 17, 2004, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kombatant
It's just that the truth in it gets lost in the way he presents it, which goes beyond "colourful". That's how it feels to me. I know who he is, we all know who he is, but it will be read by many people who don't know who he is. And it is way he presents the facts I disagree, not the facts themselves.

Just curious, but if this review was to be formatted in a unbiased presentation, then what would be your comments about it at that point? What would be your thoughts?

I am just wondering since such a perspective could be interesting, but then again, to be completely unbiased, it would have to come from somebody that A) is not from DH or Rage3D or DNA-Drivers B) must be a total newb concerning this affair C) well the hard part, must actually know how to properly bench and what to bench. The combination is really kinda hard to find.

zerodamage · Jan 17, 2004, 08:01 PM

Look, I have great respect for the journalism I've seen at Rage3d, at Nvnews.net, and here among other places and I wouldn't have a reason to question any of yours integrity. The attack on Neon Cowboy's integrity here is unfounded and quite disrespectful IMO. Should we have censored Cowboy because his opinionated style may offend a few or make a few doubt the facts here? Of course not. Does his opinionated style invalidate the facts presented? Of course not.

Our mission just like the rest of yours is to find and post the facts and support what we believe to be the truth. Cowboy has earned that respect here and it disappoints me that that respect isn't being shown to him despite his hard work. Shame.

tornado=[GSW]= · Jan 17, 2004, 08:03 PM

extremly well written article, this is the way to go in this line of business, lot of tests, appropriate presentation of results and conclusions which justify the results, cowboy u have the makings of a real pro reviewer. regarding the results must I say I am not surprised, I have been using only Omegas ever since I bought my 9800 pro and it has never failed me, I dont know the history with killersneak, I recently wished to try them out just to see how good they are, and I got on their forums, I was however discouraged by the fact that ppl had problems galore doing a fresh install of his drivers and also when moving from omegas to his. However I must say that he is very dedicated in his work, put a query on his forums and it is often answered by him in under 10 mins.

A note to cowboy, the scales as mentioned earlier seems to magnify the differences more than they actually are, dont know if it was deliberate or not. Another thing, commenting on ethics issue was what surely pissed off many guys. That was not really neccessary, almost looks like u were taking a dig at him. typos in the installation package should not have been put right in the front age, almost started feeling like DNA bashing from the word go, these issues could have been highlighted in ur conclusion. Anyway I think that guy is from europe so his english should be excused, what really counts is how the driver works.

good job overall, and keep em coming.

HsuGotaQ · Jan 17, 2004, 08:09 PM

I believe most reviews are missing way too much information. Since everybody knows one system will not react the same way as the next, really spilling out any single mundane detail will help the credibility of any review even when it has a prime target that is not something to laugh about. Exact filenames, filesizes, a complete definition of the systems specs (the whole 9 yards + 15 yards more), complete details of benchmark procedures (as always done with just way to much info). It seems kinda drastic or long thing to do, but it generally pay's off quite well.

Note : This comes from my earlier game testing work experience as well as my new found IT experience with the FDA. I hate the FDA since they are so anal, but then again, when you have to have a validated laboratory to test drugs, you gotta be damn sure operating system or database won't suddenly change data that could lead to the FDA's approval of something that could be deadly.

Anyway... my 2 thoughts and a quarter

Kombatant · Jan 17, 2004, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by toddsmack2k
His article is brutally honest. I cannot believe some people are looking more at his commentary than what the facts speak about themselves.

That alone should indicate that we don't dispute his findings and don't doubt his integrity and hard work. I also happen to believe in constructive criticism, and I would like to believe that that's what Ratch and myself are doing this moment.

Quote:

Originally posted by HsuGotaQ
Just curious, but if this review was to be formatted in a unbiased presentation, then what would be your comments about it at that point? What would be your thoughts?

I am just wondering since such a perspective could be interesting, but then again, to be completely unbiased, it would have to come from somebody that A) is not from DH or Rage3D or DNA-Drivers B) must be a total newb concerning this affair C) well the hard part, must actually know how to properly bench and what to bench. The combination is really kinda hard to find.

Yep, I never said it would be an easy task. If you are asking me the way *I* would do it, from the top of my head I would say that I would stick to the (undisputed, I would like to empasize on that one more time) facts throughout the report maintaining impartiality, and leave the last part where I could talk about ethics, history, and whatever else I would like to say.

Quote:

Originally posted by zerodamage
Look, I have great respect for the journalism I've seen at Rage3d, at Nvnews.net, and here among other places and I wouldn't have a reason to question any of yours integrity. The attack on Neon Cowboy's integrity here is unfounded and quite disrespectful IMO. Should we have censored Cowboy because his opinionated style may offend a few or make a few doubt the facts here? Of course not. Does his opinionated style invalidate the facts presented? Of course not.

Our mission just like the rest of yours is to find and post the facts and support what we believe to be the truth. Cowboy has earned that respect here and it disappoints me that that respect isn't being shown to him despite his hard work. Shame.

Zero, c'mon man. Noone questions his integrity, I thought we had that covered :/

HsuGotaQ · Jan 17, 2004, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kombatant
Yep, I never said it would be an easy task. If you are asking me the way *I* would do it, from the top of my head I would say that I would stick to the (undisputed, I would like to empasize on that one more time) facts throughout the report maintaining impartiality, and leave the last part where I could talk about ethics, history, and whatever else I would like to say.

Hmmm... seems logical. Removing the excess fat for the most part of your review to be able to have one nice dumpster full of fat to dump on whomever this fat was directed too.

Zardon · Jan 17, 2004, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kombatant
Zero, c'mon man. Noone questions his integrity, I thought we had that covered :/

Kombatant, ive known you quite a while and we get on great, but I have to disagree with you on this, both you and Ratchet have quite clearly questioned his integrity and the purpose of the article, I mean I dont see how I can take

Quote:

but trying to hide the true purpose of the article under such a completely transparent veil of legitimacy is pretty lame. The article should be entitled “We think KillerSneak is a dick, here’s why you should too.”

a comment like that to be anything else but an insult to myself, the site and Neons article at the highest level. a comment like that is not constructive by any terms and is merely stating that the whole article along with the benchmarks is meaningless and is a masquerade with the intention to slander KS - Mike spent weeks on the benchmarks and wanted to add his opinions at the end which arent heresay they are factual, remember that. Thats his style, im not excusing it, why should I, he "feels" it and researched it. to neuter that, is to remove his personality.

I have already expressed my feelings in this thread so I dont see the need to reiterate them, but I have to say im quite surprised at some of the comments from a rage3d mod and admin in this thread. Not your personal views on presentation or his structure might I add but the insults.

Kombatant · Jan 17, 2004, 08:35 PM

You are right, I can only speak for myself. What I said about not questioning his integrity stands tho.

Dyre Straits · Jan 17, 2004, 08:56 PM

I'd like to take a moment and comment on my own observations regarding Neon's presentation. Just about everyone knows me around here from the beginning and I 'think' I've gained a certain degree of credibility as being one who is fair when making comments.

It's very difficult to argue against the evidence presented in the benchmarks. Those are just plain and simple test results. I don't see that they could be manipulated in anyway, nor that Neon would want to.

The ONLY thing that I would have suggested to Neon, if I'd been editing his presentation, would have been to move the observation about the 'spelling errors' in the DNA driver installer to the end of the whole article. I think this would have removed the early 'feelings' of bias from the article and yet allowed for personal observation in the conclusion. I DO think, however, that pointing out the differences in the options of the two installers belongs right where it is.

Even with it being as it is, though, the article is an excellent presentation of the facts. Those should be able to stand on their own merit.

zerodamage · Jan 17, 2004, 09:07 PM

Very well said Dyre. That is what constructive criticism should look like.

The_Neon_Cowboy · Jan 17, 2004, 09:35 PM

First of all big THANKS AGAIN!!! Everyone!

Quote:

Originally posted by Dyre Straits
I'd like to take a moment and comment on my own observations regarding Neon's presentation. Just about everyone knows me around here from the beginning and I 'think' I've gained a certain degree of credibility as being one who is fair when making comments.

It's very difficult to argue against the evidence presented in the benchmarks. Those are just plain and simple test results. I don't see that they could be manipulated in anyway, nor that Neon would want to.

The ONLY thing that I would have suggested to Neon, if I'd been editing his presentation, would have been to move the observation about the 'spelling errors' in the DNA driver installer to the end of the whole article. I think this would have removed the early 'feelings' of bias from the article and yet allowed for personal observation in the conclusion. I DO think, however, that pointing out the differences in the options of the two installers belongs right where it is.

Even with it being as it is, though, the article is an excellent presentation of the facts. Those should be able to stand on their own merit.

The spelling errors were noticed in DNA’s driver but I wasn’t trying to nitpick and I’m not the spell mister myself. But, you’d think he’d least ran a spell-check on his writing used in his installer and read me. Like I had said before, I’m not out to get the guy. I disliked the way he acted on this forum. But, otherwise I could care less what he does. None the less I also also found it funnier then sad then to watch him picking on Zardon spelling on his website, becouse Zardon is an excellent speller.

Reuter · Jan 17, 2004, 09:51 PM

Good show Neon.
For now my last hesitations are gone
As you know those dna drivers kinda fixed my system and while all games were running the dx9 cubes stayed garbled.
Did you notice that to?

Jan 17, 2004, 05:26 PM	#31
kelticknight DriverHeaven Knight Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: EIRE{great for black stuff ,bulmers cider and Munster rubgy Posts: 1,095 Rep Power: 0	l didn' feel the report ,was one way as againest killer sneak,l think unless ks smartens up,less people will use his drivers __________________

Jan 17, 2004, 06:08 PM	#33
swimtech HardwareHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: North Carolina Posts: 4,040 Rep Power: 122 System Specs	Nice article Neon. I especially appreciate the page on stability. I would not even consider using the DNA's based upon your experiences with stability during your testing. The speed of the drivers during gameplay is important to me (noting that these benches can only primarily apply to a 9600XT, as ATI - and Omega - create by default different overall settings according to the card installled and sensed by the installer- I run a 7500 which means I need all the speed I can get!), but stability and smoothness of gameplay and system operations are most important to me - why? Here I go assuming - but with high likelihood of success in the assumption. For myself, like most (there's the assumption), the computer in my home is the only computer that everyone uses. I've a wife and four kids in the house. They all do/play different things on the computer - albeit mostly games. I just don't have the time (Poppi mentioned this consideration as well) to be rebooting the computer and/or tweaking a game setting when my 12 year old daughter, for instance (for whom playing a computer game is a welcome respite from helping to watch my two youngest, 3 and 4), hollers out "Daddy, the computer froze again" or "the game won't run". It spoils her enjoyment of the program, and also wastes the time she spent getting to a certain point in the program - and she is disappointed with the computer and with the way I have set it up to run for her. Repeat this several times throughout a day for the others in the house, and myself. You get the idea... Computer gaming time can be a precious thing... It seems from this review that I get not only better overall speed from the Omegadrivers, but much better stability. ATI themselves take this tack as well. They have to. Their drivers are for mass consumption and realize that things should just work. DNA's have their place I'm sure, as he has those who, no doubt, use his drivers regularly. I don't and won't. I have used the Omegadrivers since pre-cat days because I noted they were fast, reliable, and looked better than even ATI's own. This review is confirmation of my experience. Thanks again Neon, and thank you Omegadrive. My two cents, and my take on the rukus over the past several days: I discipline my children when they get out of line too, by the way... They need that discipline to deal well with the world and with others when they grow up, to have the opportunity to be successful and respected. When they rail against proper discipline, I send them to their room and IGNORE them for awhile so they get the idea that if they don't relate their feelings and actions in a civil manner, no one will want to have anything to do with them. Hmmm... __________________ It's not so much getting your way that matters or not - what matters is how you go about getting it.

Jan 17, 2004, 07:04 PM	#35
Ratchet Rage3d Administrator Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 33 Rep Power: 0	I started to read the article with the impression that it was a comparison of the various different custom driver sets vs the official ATI Catalysts. Almost immediately however it was clearly apparent that the whole point of the article was simply to discredit the KillerSneaks DNA drivers and credit Omegas. I don't have a problem with that, I think the same thing about KillerSneak as much of you do, but trying to hide the true purpose of the article under such a completely transparent veil of legitimacy is pretty lame. The article should be entitled “We think KillerSneak is a dick, here’s why you should too.” Last edited by Ratchet; Jan 17, 2004 at 07:13 PM.

Jan 17, 2004, 07:26 PM	#38
Asmoday Demonic Join Date: May 2002 Location: In the cold, dark north... Posts: 5,198 Rep Power: 90 System Specs	I for one thought that it was a very good and indepth review....way to go Neon and Roadee!!! __________________ How You can help Hardwareheaven by using Digg

Jan 17, 2004, 07:32 PM	#40
toddsmack2k It Never..... Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Kentucky Posts: 3,173 Rep Power: 0	It is Neon's article plain and simple. He done it himself for everyone to read. What do you find not credible about the article ratchet? __________________ [color=blue]*Bleeding From the Inside Pouring Out, The* *DriverHeaven* Spiral, We Shall Never Let Go Of.[/color]

Jan 17, 2004, 05:39 PM	Thread Starter #32
zerodamage HardwareHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: Virginia, USA Posts: 3,478 Rep Power: 0 System Specs	Kombatant, to be honest, he's gotten second chances from us here at DH at well. He just blew them everytime with his attitude and hostile behavior.

Jan 17, 2004, 07:35 PM	#42
Ratchet Rage3d Administrator Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 33 Rep Power: 0	You mean besides the obvious bias? Not much I guess.

Jan 17, 2004, 07:37 PM	#43
BurL Liver SUCKS!!!! Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 228 Rep Power: 0 System Specs	That comparison review was great, good job neon. I don't see many reviews that lay out the facts and explain them as well a you have. The people that are trying to discredit your review are fools, you have the facts and they speak for themselves. I would like to see more reviews from you in the future, because the way you explained everthing was easy for me to understand. Thanks again for a great comparison review. __________________ If I had a bean burrito I would smash it all over my chest.

Jan 17, 2004, 07:45 PM	#46
PoopyTheJ DriverHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,588 Rep Power: 64	Wow took me long enough I know but great article Neon! My guess for the poor showing of the DNA drivers is his disabling of Hierarchical Z in Dx. My two cents on it, I used his drivers once and wound up re-installing windows from the issues I got. I'll stick with the official cats or Omeagas even before this article but very nicely done. __________________ [COLOR=Blue]“Alright boys, let’s start her up and see why she doesn’t work.” - John Fritz "I aim to misbehave" Malcolm Reynolds ATI Catalyst Beta Tester[/COLOR]

Jan 17, 2004, 07:45 PM	#47
Zardon DriverHeaven Founder Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 32,480 Rep Power: 177	Thats who Neon is Kombatant, he doesnt "piss around", and I have to say I admire him for it. He doesnt waffle or get lost meandering around the issues, he just says it like it is. Actually ill share something with you that might surprise you, the feedback ive gotten in email or PM to this point has been positive from most people, its some of the people like yourself, the more experienced journalists who have an issue with the way he has done it "his presentation" as such, and to be honest, im glad, because this was in a way meant to "shake" people up to the facts. and its worked. Thats who neon is. I totally believe his integrity and credibility then again I know him, just like alot of our board members do. which is why even with the "grief" I knew we would get I still posted it. No one can tell me his article has no merit. its from his heart, he spent weeks of time on it and he had the balls to present his opinions at the end. I wish more reviewers would be so honest.

Jan 17, 2004, 07:53 PM	#48
toddsmack2k It Never..... Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Kentucky Posts: 3,173 Rep Power: 0	His article is brutally honest. I cannot believe some people are looking more at his commentary than what the facts speak about themselves. __________________ [color=blue]*Bleeding From the Inside Pouring Out, The* *DriverHeaven* Spiral, We Shall Never Let Go Of.[/color]

Jan 17, 2004, 08:01 PM	Thread Starter #50
zerodamage HardwareHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: Virginia, USA Posts: 3,478 Rep Power: 0 System Specs	Look, I have great respect for the journalism I've seen at Rage3d, at Nvnews.net, and here among other places and I wouldn't have a reason to question any of yours integrity. The attack on Neon Cowboy's integrity here is unfounded and quite disrespectful IMO. Should we have censored Cowboy because his opinionated style may offend a few or make a few doubt the facts here? Of course not. Does his opinionated style invalidate the facts presented? Of course not. Our mission just like the rest of yours is to find and post the facts and support what we believe to be the truth. Cowboy has earned that respect here and it disappoints me that that respect isn't being shown to him despite his hard work. Shame.

Jan 17, 2004, 08:03 PM	#51
tornado=[GSW]= Compulsive HW Monger Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Baton Rouge, LA, USA Posts: 144 Rep Power: 0	extremly well written article, this is the way to go in this line of business, lot of tests, appropriate presentation of results and conclusions which justify the results, cowboy u have the makings of a real pro reviewer. regarding the results must I say I am not surprised, I have been using only Omegas ever since I bought my 9800 pro and it has never failed me, I dont know the history with killersneak, I recently wished to try them out just to see how good they are, and I got on their forums, I was however discouraged by the fact that ppl had problems galore doing a fresh install of his drivers and also when moving from omegas to his. However I must say that he is very dedicated in his work, put a query on his forums and it is often answered by him in under 10 mins. A note to cowboy, the scales as mentioned earlier seems to magnify the differences more than they actually are, dont know if it was deliberate or not. Another thing, commenting on ethics issue was what surely pissed off many guys. That was not really neccessary, almost looks like u were taking a dig at him. typos in the installation package should not have been put right in the front age, almost started feeling like DNA bashing from the word go, these issues could have been highlighted in ur conclusion. Anyway I think that guy is from europe so his english should be excused, what really counts is how the driver works. good job overall, and keep em coming.

Jan 17, 2004, 08:09 PM	#52
HsuGotaQ Hydrogenated Dumbass Join Date: May 2002 Location: Canuckland Posts: 755 Rep Power: 0	Just a small critique I have against pretty much every review benchmark I believe most reviews are missing way too much information. Since everybody knows one system will not react the same way as the next, really spilling out any single mundane detail will help the credibility of any review even when it has a prime target that is not something to laugh about. Exact filenames, filesizes, a complete definition of the systems specs (the whole 9 yards + 15 yards more), complete details of benchmark procedures (as always done with just way to much info). It seems kinda drastic or long thing to do, but it generally pay's off quite well. Note : This comes from my earlier game testing work experience as well as my new found IT experience with the FDA. I hate the FDA since they are so anal, but then again, when you have to have a validated laboratory to test drugs, you gotta be damn sure operating system or database won't suddenly change data that could lead to the FDA's approval of something that could be deadly. Anyway... my 2 thoughts and a quarter

Jan 17, 2004, 08:35 PM	#56
Kombatant DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Athens, Hellas Posts: 644 Rep Power: 60	You are right, I can only speak for myself. What I said about not questioning his integrity stands tho. __________________ There is no spoon... Kombatant's Lair

Jan 17, 2004, 09:07 PM	Thread Starter #58
zerodamage HardwareHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: Virginia, USA Posts: 3,478 Rep Power: 0 System Specs	Very well said Dyre. That is what constructive criticism should look like.

Jan 17, 2004, 09:51 PM	#60
Reuter DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Belgium, three feet from my monitor Posts: 55 Rep Power: 0	Good show Neon. For now my last hesitations are gone As you know those dna drivers kinda fixed my system and while all games were running the dx9 cubes stayed garbled. Did you notice that to?