Nvidia accused of cheating over graphics tech

Zardon · Apr 23, 2004, 11:16 AM

We said that what we saw when we were in Geneva with Nvidia was a clear difference between the code that was running PS 3.0 path and a referred system that was running PS 2.0 code.

ATI says that CryTek's representative told it that what Nvidia showed us in Geneva was a 2.0/3.0 path versus 1.1 path.

The key message is that Shader model 3.0 and 2.0 look exactly the same, the ATI representative added.

In a developers' mail that we also received, it added that there is a possibility that the 3.0 path might be slightly faster in same cases on some hardware - an obvious reference to Nvidia.

inquirer

LeanWolf · Apr 23, 2004, 12:04 PM

..and here we go again! :P

**dj_stick** · Apr 23, 2004, 12:06 PM

seems to be quite a war of words goin around here…

Danhill · Apr 23, 2004, 12:10 PM

Should be fun hearing Nvidias explanation.

SeraphicSorcerer · Apr 23, 2004, 12:17 PM

Quack Quack, I mean, heh.... I swear these 2 Trade Cheats, It's getting ridiculous why can't we just have Gaes that rendered "The way it's meant to be played" instead of using iut as a marketing gimmick It's Really Stupid that this even has to go on, BTW does this explain why that Floor looked like crap on the 6800? Did anyone else notice that?

The_Neon_Cowboy · Apr 23, 2004, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Danhill
Should be fun hearing Nvidias explanation.

they will just BS like they did last time

hohum · Apr 23, 2004, 12:25 PM

I doubt they will it explain it though... they never admitted to the original accusations of cheating in 3dmark03, so i'm suspecting it'll be unlikely to see any explanation over this either. It's a shame, because they have a decent product that could perform fantastically without these IQ reductions. I really don't know what they're playing at... surely after all the bad press they've received over their optimisations, they would have known that almost every tech website known to man would investigate to see if cheating is still going on? Daft.

BWX · Apr 23, 2004, 01:29 PM

Nvidia sux! -- this doesn't surprise me at all either, I actually was waiting for it. Nvidia needs to just quit cheating and render the image correctly instead of degrading the image quality to gain speed.

germanjulian · Apr 23, 2004, 01:52 PM

now if only this would be know to every person who owns a computer... not just geeks

snake · Apr 23, 2004, 03:47 PM

Well one thing is sure for me : since the Radeon 7500, nVidia lost its crown and it's not going to change in a near future. Maybe nForce2 and nForce3 motherboards are the best in the competition, but for GFX cards, ATI leads the dance.Nothing to add, except that betray the confidence of the customers is the best way to convince them that ATI really rocks and nVidia are losers and cheaters

~~tenndevil~~ · Apr 23, 2004, 04:31 PM

This is all ATI says, we don't even know if it's true, you think maybe there is an NDA involved here somewhere (between Crytek and nvidia)? ATI uses them even on beta-testers. This get old after awhile, there is really no set standard on how this stuff is done, ATI does it their way and people say they are cheating, nvidia does things their way and they are not only cheaters, but cheaters that suck.

Al_Vampyre · Apr 23, 2004, 04:34 PM

Scared of losing before ATI's card is even out by the sounds of it!

~~Sourcer_2002~~ · Apr 23, 2004, 04:38 PM

You also have to remember that ATi is probably not as innocent as you all play them to be.

XSwiftX · Apr 23, 2004, 04:53 PM

ATI has never been caught blatantly lying to the press or consumers. Nvidia has, and repeatedly.

Read the article at The Inquirer and you will see that a rep from CryTek has stated that Nvidia was showing a 3.0/2.0 vs 1.1 ps. Or basically he confirmed that Nvidia was lying once again.

Let me look for an article about ATI lying about something.........

I can't find any, can you?

~~HawK~~ · Apr 23, 2004, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sourcer_2002
You also have to remember that ATi is probably not as innocent as you all play them to be.

Are you reffering to the Quake3 incident? if so than you are (or should be) aware this was more a driver"mistake" and after it was fixed it did not made the BMark any faster

SeraphicSorcerer · Apr 23, 2004, 05:48 PM

Why you think I made my qauck quack, im my comment? haha... This is a much more serious issue then quake 3 ever was even if it was a "application specific optimization" THIS IS IMAGE QUALITY RENDERING the entire basis for what your graphics card is designed to do, so..... Obviously it's a much hotter issue then... a simple name change for quake 3....

I mean.... look at the farcry pictures, they are obviously diffrent..... the way they are renered is diffrent and much more ntociable then max payne 2 or 3dmark

Apr 23, 2004, 11:16 AM	#1
Zardon DriverHeaven Founder Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 32,480 Rep Power: 179	Nvidia accused of cheating over graphics tech We said that what we saw when we were in Geneva with Nvidia was a clear difference between the code that was running PS 3.0 path and a referred system that was running PS 2.0 code. ATI says that CryTek's representative told it that what Nvidia showed us in Geneva was a 2.0/3.0 path versus 1.1 path. The key message is that Shader model 3.0 and 2.0 look exactly the same, the ATI representative added. In a developers' mail that we also received, it added that there is a possibility that the 3.0 path might be slightly faster in same cases on some hardware - an obvious reference to Nvidia. inquirer

Apr 23, 2004, 12:04 PM	#2
LeanWolf alpha male Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Skyrim Posts: 5,713 Rep Power: 84 System Specs	..and here we go again! :P __________________

Apr 23, 2004, 12:10 PM	#4
Danhill DriverHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: Sweden Posts: 4,112 Rep Power: 0	Should be fun hearing Nvidias explanation. __________________ MOBO: [color=white]ASUS A8N-SLI Premium[/color] CPU: AMD 64 3200+ (Venice) @ 2,50 Ghz MEM: 2 x 512 DDR 466, VGA: 2 x 6600 GT in SLI, HDD1: WD Raptor HDD2: Maxtor Diamond Plus 9, Case: Antec Plus View 1080, PSU: ThermalTake PurePower 500W, MX 1000, Dell 2001 FP, Aud. 2 SZ

Apr 23, 2004, 12:17 PM	#5
SeraphicSorcerer HardwareHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 2,295 Rep Power: 156 System Specs	Quack Quack, I mean, heh.... I swear these 2 Trade Cheats, It's getting ridiculous why can't we just have Gaes that rendered "The way it's meant to be played" instead of using iut as a marketing gimmick It's Really Stupid that this even has to go on, BTW does this explain why that Floor looked like crap on the 6800? Did anyone else notice that? __________________

Apr 23, 2004, 01:29 PM	#8
BWX unplugged Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: USNY Posts: 19,669 Rep Power: 110 System Specs	Nvidia sux! -- this doesn't surprise me at all either, I actually was waiting for it. Nvidia needs to just quit cheating and render the image correctly instead of degrading the image quality to gain speed. __________________

Apr 23, 2004, 12:25 PM	#7
hohum HardwareHeaven Addict Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: UK Posts: 298 Rep Power: 0	I doubt they will it explain it though... they never admitted to the original accusations of cheating in 3dmark03, so i'm suspecting it'll be unlikely to see any explanation over this either. It's a shame, because they have a decent product that could perform fantastically without these IQ reductions. I really don't know what they're playing at... surely after all the bad press they've received over their optimisations, they would have known that almost every tech website known to man would investigate to see if cheating is still going on? Daft.

Apr 23, 2004, 01:52 PM	#9
germanjulian Back in London Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: London Posts: 1,797 Rep Power: 0	now if only this would be know to every person who owns a computer... not just geeks __________________ /\|\ Asus P5W DH Deluxe, Intel C2D E6600, 2GB Corsair XMS2-6400C4 DDR2, E-VGA GeForce 7800 GT, Creative X-Fi Extreme Music, 500GB Seagate 7200.10 SATA, Lian Li PC-V1100 Aluminum Case Black, etc. http://germanjulian.com /\|\

Apr 23, 2004, 03:47 PM	#10
snake HardwareHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: France Posts: 422 Rep Power: 65 System Specs	Well one thing is sure for me : since the Radeon 7500, nVidia lost its crown and it's not going to change in a near future. Maybe nForce2 and nForce3 motherboards are the best in the competition, but for GFX cards, ATI leads the dance.Nothing to add, except that betray the confidence of the customers is the best way to convince them that ATI really rocks and nVidia are losers and cheaters __________________ i7 930@4Ghz-DFI T3EH6-6Go OCZPC12800-GTX480+8800GT Barton 2600+@2.16 (188x11.5) # GeForce 6800 GT@Ultra 1.5Go PC3200 #Asus A7N8X Deluxe Bios 1008 26397 3DMark06/ 57736 3DMark01/163152 Aquamark3

Apr 23, 2004, 04:31 PM	#11
~~tenndevil~~ Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 128 Rep Power: 0	This is all ATI says, we don't even know if it's true, you think maybe there is an NDA involved here somewhere (between Crytek and nvidia)? ATI uses them even on beta-testers. This get old after awhile, there is really no set standard on how this stuff is done, ATI does it their way and people say they are cheating, nvidia does things their way and they are not only cheaters, but cheaters that suck. Last edited by tenndevil; Apr 23, 2004 at 04:45 PM.

Apr 23, 2004, 04:34 PM	#12
Al_Vampyre HardwareHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Scotland Posts: 1,532 Rep Power: 72 System Specs	Scared of losing before ATI's card is even out by the sounds of it! __________________ "Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit; wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad" - Brian O'Driscoll - Ireland Rugby Team 2009 Grand Slam winning Captain.

Apr 23, 2004, 04:38 PM	#13
~~Sourcer_2002~~ BANNED Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Indiana , USA Posts: 2,677 Rep Power: 0	You also have to remember that ATi is probably not as innocent as you all play them to be.

Apr 23, 2004, 04:53 PM	#14
XSwiftX DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 64 Rep Power: 0	ATI has never been caught blatantly lying to the press or consumers. Nvidia has, and repeatedly. Read the article at The Inquirer and you will see that a rep from CryTek has stated that Nvidia was showing a 3.0/2.0 vs 1.1 ps. Or basically he confirmed that Nvidia was lying once again. Let me look for an article about ATI lying about something......... I can't find any, can you?

Apr 23, 2004, 05:48 PM	#16
SeraphicSorcerer HardwareHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 2,295 Rep Power: 156 System Specs	Why you think I made my qauck quack, im my comment? haha... This is a much more serious issue then quake 3 ever was even if it was a "application specific optimization" THIS IS IMAGE QUALITY RENDERING the entire basis for what your graphics card is designed to do, so..... Obviously it's a much hotter issue then... a simple name change for quake 3.... I mean.... look at the farcry pictures, they are obviously diffrent..... the way they are renered is diffrent and much more ntociable then max payne 2 or 3dmark __________________