Farcy 1.2 - the withdrawn patch

GibMonkey · Jul 24, 2004, 06:47 AM

So when can we expect to see Far Cry instancing on Nvidia cards? In the "real" release of 1.2, or do we have to wait for 1.3? How long will it be this time?

Oh, wait a sec, DOOM 3 is out in a little more than a week. Nevermind.

GibMonkey

digitalwanderer · Jul 24, 2004, 07:06 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by GibMonkey
So when can we expect to see Far Cry instancing on Nvidia cards? In the "real" release of 1.2, or do we have to wait for 1.3? How long will it be this time?

I'm sure the next patch that comes out will fully support nVidia, EA just "went into a partnership" with CryTek today.

Quote:

Oh, wait a sec, DOOM 3 is out in a little more than a week. Nevermind.

Yeah, that's pretty much how I feel about it right now too.

(Or is it 8) here? I can never keep it straight! :? )

BWX · Jul 24, 2004, 11:54 AM

Nice article Zardon and Crew- It really gives a good picture of what's going on...

Quote:

Originally posted by GibMonkey

What I wanna know is this. I just purchased an Nvidia card. Will I still benefit from the next Far Cry patch in terms of performance and better visuals as much, if not equal to, an ATI card of the same caliber?

Why don't you say which Nvidia card you bought? No one else asked, but it makes a difference- If you bought an FX5200- all the answers will be quite different than if you just bought a GF6800, which I doubt if you are 12 yrs old, but it could happen..

GibMonkey · Jul 24, 2004, 01:08 PM

My bad. It's a BFG Geforce6800 GT. Also I'm not twelve, just in that age bracket as far as 3d graphic terminology goes.

GibMonkey

Upke · Jul 24, 2004, 01:38 PM

There's still something that confuses me though.

The R3x0 isn't SM2.0b or is it? So basicly, developers need to make 3(4) code paths to let games run optimally on the different G-cards; SM2.0 SM2.0b SM3.0 (and maybe a special Nv3x code path, maybe even fall backs to DX8/7?)

How will this play out in the industry? I mean, do you think such a thing wil happen or will everybody just code for SM 2.0b and SM3.0 (fall back things to DX8?)

BWX · Jul 24, 2004, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by GibMonkey
My bad. It's a BFG Geforce6800 GT. Also I'm not twelve, just in that age bracket as far as 3d graphic terminology goes.

GibMonkey

LOL--ok, where did you find that V-card? How much did you pay if you don't mind saying?

GibMonkey · Jul 24, 2004, 02:22 PM

Found it here.

Back when there wasn't so much demand for them, I paid a little over $400, now they're amlost $500!!!!

GibMonkey

Zardon · Jul 24, 2004, 02:24 PM

you paid a fine price indeed, good card.

digitalwanderer · Jul 24, 2004, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Upke
The R3x0 isn't SM2.0b or is it? So basicly, developers need to make 3(4) code paths to let games run optimally on the different G-cards; SM2.0 SM2.0b SM3.0 (and maybe a special Nv3x code path, maybe even fall backs to DX8/7?)

No, not really. From my understanding it will take a detection statement to find out what SM your viddy card is using is about it, and there is a instruction count limit of 96 or so for SM2.0b shaders is the only real difference I can find right now. (Between 2.0b and 3.0 that is)

That's a lot of what this whole discussion is about, don't feel bad if it's confusing 'cause it's confusing a WHOLE lot of people right now.

GibMonkey · Jul 24, 2004, 02:47 PM

Tell me something Zardon. What is your take on this whole deal?

I mean are we looking at a "win, win" situation with both companies and a newly optimized patch for Far Cry, or is it going to AGAIN lean to one side?

Just making sure my $400 wasn't spent in vain. I really like both company's cards, and really lean towards the ATI ones (switched from a 9800xt) and prefer how ATI handles its' PR. But you know DOOM 3 and all..... I figured I would really be getting a better card no matter which company I chose, and DOOM 3 made me lean to the dark (Nvidia) side.

Thanks for the article! Needed a translator but definitely good reading!

GibMonkey

Zardon · Jul 24, 2004, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by GibMonkey
Tell me something Zardon. What is your take on this whole deal?

I mean are we looking at a "win, win" situation with both companies and a newly optimized patch for Far Cry, or is it going to AGAIN lean to one side?

Just making sure my $400 wasn't spent in vain. I really like both company's cards, and really lean towards the ATI ones (switched from a 9800xt) and prefer how ATI handles its' PR. But you know DOOM 3 and all..... I figured I would really be getting a better card no matter which company I chose, and DOOM 3 made me lean to the dark (Nvidia) side.

Thanks for the article! Needed a translator but definitely good reading!

GibMonkey

My take on it is really you cant go wrong if you buy either a X800 based card or a 6800GT/Ultra card. Arguably the 6800Gt is the best value card out there as its very reasonably priced, and is 16 pipes compared to the X800pro's 12 (not counting in mods here of course, just out of the box performance). This is just my opinion and I think ATI need to either lower the price of the PRO or put out a cut down clocked XT to compete directly (yet more models, we all hate that). I have been hearing rumours about this, but ill not make any quote.

ATI have superb D3D performance but the problem is they always have had inferior opengl performance to nvidia - this is why we are seeing ATI getting hit hard on the Doom 3 benchies that hardocp posted days ago. Although this isnt an ideal situation, I feel the X800 cards can compensate somewhat for the poor opengl drivers with sheer hardware power so it will still be playable with the possible exception being the PRO board at the highest settings. This "benchmark" situation is going to be reversed when Half life 2 comes out with ATI at the top.

Getting back to the opengl performance, ive been on the phone to ati for the last year about this, and part of this problem was due to the fact the opengl driver part was developed in germany with the firegl guys and not in the main HQ over in canada (and to a certain extent in california). For those however who DONT know, the opengl section in germany has shut up shop and its all moved to Canada - even the firegl guys have been relocated (some werent happy when I was partying with ati in munich a while ago but thats another story). When I was recently over in canada I talked to the guy heading up the new opengl development and trust me this is HIGH on atis list, they are putting masses of resources into it, quite when we will be seeing opengl improvements is open to speculation, I cant see it happening very soon there is just too much work to be done.

I also had a one on one chat to Dave Orton (ATIs CEO) recently in canada about the opengl performance and he is aware of the situation and seemed very intent on making the opengl driver section much more efficient.

his "offical" on the record quote was:

Allan: With the fact ATI are a leader in Direct3d performance/stability but are sadly lacking in the OpenGL sector especially when compared to your main competitor, can you detail how ATI under your leadership plan to improve this?

Dave: We are always looking for ways to improve our products. And a key part of that is our software. Many of the improvements that we have made in the software area are already evident. For example, we have improved our testing processes, resulting in more frequent and more stable drivers and we have implemented a feedback program to learn of driver bugs early on so we can rectify them. Some of the improvements aren’t evident yet, but will be soon. It’s readily apparent that the work we’ve done on the DX driver is world class. We are confident we will do whatever is necessary to make our OGL driver the new industry standard for stability and performance.

So right now getting back to your question, the 6800GT is a great card and you will be able to play anything on it this year with ease.

griswoold · Jul 24, 2004, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by digitalwanderer
No, not really. From my understanding it will take a detection statement to find out what SM your viddy card is using is about it, and there is a instruction count limit of 96 or so for SM2.0b shaders is the only real difference I can find right now. (Between 2.0b and 3.0 that is)

That's a lot of what this whole discussion is about, don't feel bad if it's confusing 'cause it's confusing a WHOLE lot of people right now.

1. sm20b doesn't have a 96 instr. limit sm2.0 does hovever.

2. the sm20b is the same as sm2.0 but with higher instr. limit (512 to 96(64alu,32tex.))

there are more differences between sm3.0 and sm2b than just instr. limit though

Upke · Jul 24, 2004, 03:37 PM

What I do wonder how ever is the Radeon X600 is just a Radeon 9600 XT, but it has a PCI Express interface. On the Ruby Headquarters it says you can run the Ruby demo on that X600 card. Ergo, it must have SM 2.0b (since the demo itself is) So they changed more then just the interface, how ever I've read multiple times that the X600 is just a Radeon 9600 XT... ?

digitalwanderer · Jul 24, 2004, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by griswoold
1. sm20b doesn't have a 96 instr. limit sm2.0 does hovever.

2. the sm20b is the same as sm2.0 but with higher instr. limit (512 to 96(64alu,32tex.))

Sorry, I should have been more clear. The R3xx can do SM2.0b, but with the 96 instr limit. (I tend to just worry about how the specs affect the kit I'm running, sorry.)

BWX · Jul 24, 2004, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by GibMonkey
Found it here.

Back when there wasn't so much demand for them, I paid a little over $400, now they're amlost $500!!!!

GibMonkey

Nice-- good find.

BWX · Jul 24, 2004, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Zardon

Dave:......... It’s readily apparent that the work we’ve done on the DX driver is world class. We are confident we will do whatever is necessary to make our OGL driver the new industry standard for stability and performance.

That is exactly why I'm not worried about ATI's marks on those benchmarks, I'm sure by the time the game comes out and a couple new driver sets are released, the OGL performance (hence D3 performance) will be better... If not, then there will be some problems.

Dreadgnouth · Jul 24, 2004, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Upke
What I do wonder how ever is the Radeon X600 is just a Radeon 9600 XT, but it has a PCI Express interface. On the Ruby Headquarters it says you can run the Ruby demo on that X600 card. Ergo, it must have SM 2.0b (since the demo itself is) So they changed more then just the interface, how ever I've read multiple times that the X600 is just a Radeon 9600 XT... ?

yea, i have this question too
are the X600 and X300 SM2.0b or only 2.0 like the 9xxx series?

***Veridian3*** · Jul 24, 2004, 07:08 PM

X6 and X3 are both 2.0b parts

Upke · Jul 24, 2004, 07:43 PM

Interesting. So they actually tweaked the design of the radeon 9600 to turn it into the X600, that's not what (some) the reviewers are saying but then again, they don't know that much.

Zardon · Jul 24, 2004, 07:55 PM

the X600 has some advancements - the performance is comparible to the 9600 series, but its certainly not an identical board.

Upke · Jul 24, 2004, 08:18 PM

Very interesting. But they didn't add the F-buffer though, as Smartshader is still at version 2.0 (not 2.1 like the Radeon 9800) Not that its of any real use, but still. (They could've use the R420's F-buffer)

Vengeance · Jul 24, 2004, 10:11 PM

Good read. Thanks

BTW......wicked avatar Allan.

Twysted · Oct 14, 2004, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Judas

i can't say i'm serprised... UBIsoft is not one to spit out much for patches.... let alone really fix anything with a patch... or get one out quickly......you can expect zero support within the next few months...

lol, sorry to bring up this old topic but it is several months later... and where are the patches? :P

>GSXR<mrbusa · Oct 14, 2004, 03:51 PM

it would be nice to have a clue when this game will be patched again.eventhough the 1.2 patch was withdrawn there are about half of the public servers running it and the other half are running 1.1.i quit playing mp because of this reason.later

manonty · Oct 16, 2004, 09:05 PM

thanks

Jul 24, 2004, 10:11 PM	#52
Vengeance DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: Fort Worth TX Posts: 643 Rep Power: 0	Good read. Thanks BTW......wicked avatar Allan. __________________ [color=red]Rage3D Super Moderator[/color] [color=red]BFG 6800 GT [/color]

Jul 24, 2004, 06:47 AM	#31
GibMonkey Assclown Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 7 Rep Power: 0	So when can we expect to see Far Cry instancing on Nvidia cards? In the "real" release of 1.2, or do we have to wait for 1.3? How long will it be this time? Oh, wait a sec, DOOM 3 is out in a little more than a week. Nevermind. GibMonkey

Jul 24, 2004, 01:08 PM	#34
GibMonkey Assclown Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 7 Rep Power: 0	My bad. It's a BFG Geforce6800 GT. Also I'm not twelve, just in that age bracket as far as 3d graphic terminology goes. GibMonkey

Jul 24, 2004, 01:38 PM	#35
Upke DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 4 Rep Power: 0	There's still something that confuses me though. The R3x0 isn't SM2.0b or is it? So basicly, developers need to make 3(4) code paths to let games run optimally on the different G-cards; SM2.0 SM2.0b SM3.0 (and maybe a special Nv3x code path, maybe even fall backs to DX8/7?) How will this play out in the industry? I mean, do you think such a thing wil happen or will everybody just code for SM 2.0b and SM3.0 (fall back things to DX8?)

Jul 24, 2004, 02:22 PM	#37
GibMonkey Assclown Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 7 Rep Power: 0	Found it here. Back when there wasn't so much demand for them, I paid a little over $400, now they're amlost $500!!!! GibMonkey

Jul 24, 2004, 02:24 PM	Thread Starter #38
Zardon DriverHeaven Founder Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 32,480 Rep Power: 179	you paid a fine price indeed, good card.

Jul 24, 2004, 02:47 PM	#40
GibMonkey Assclown Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 7 Rep Power: 0	Tell me something Zardon. What is your take on this whole deal? I mean are we looking at a "win, win" situation with both companies and a newly optimized patch for Far Cry, or is it going to AGAIN lean to one side? Just making sure my $400 wasn't spent in vain. I really like both company's cards, and really lean towards the ATI ones (switched from a 9800xt) and prefer how ATI handles its' PR. But you know DOOM 3 and all..... I figured I would really be getting a better card no matter which company I chose, and DOOM 3 made me lean to the dark (Nvidia) side. Thanks for the article! Needed a translator but definitely good reading! GibMonkey

Jul 24, 2004, 03:37 PM	#43
Upke DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 4 Rep Power: 0	What I do wonder how ever is the Radeon X600 is just a Radeon 9600 XT, but it has a PCI Express interface. On the Ruby Headquarters it says you can run the Ruby demo on that X600 card. Ergo, it must have SM 2.0b (since the demo itself is) So they changed more then just the interface, how ever I've read multiple times that the X600 is just a Radeon 9600 XT... ?

Jul 24, 2004, 07:08 PM	#48
*Veridian3* Administrator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Cloaked Posts: 5,028 Rep Power: 181	X6 and X3 are both 2.0b parts

Jul 24, 2004, 07:43 PM	#49
Upke DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 4 Rep Power: 0	Interesting. So they actually tweaked the design of the radeon 9600 to turn it into the X600, that's not what (some) the reviewers are saying but then again, they don't know that much.

Jul 24, 2004, 07:55 PM	Thread Starter #50
Zardon DriverHeaven Founder Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 32,480 Rep Power: 179	the X600 has some advancements - the performance is comparible to the 9600 series, but its certainly not an identical board.

Jul 24, 2004, 08:18 PM	#51
Upke DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 4 Rep Power: 0	Very interesting. But they didn't add the F-buffer though, as Smartshader is still at version 2.0 (not 2.1 like the Radeon 9800) Not that its of any real use, but still. (They could've use the R420's F-buffer)

Oct 14, 2004, 03:51 PM	#54
>GSXR<mrbusa im a FREAK Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 2,107 Rep Power: 0 System Specs	it would be nice to have a clue when this game will be patched again.eventhough the 1.2 patch was withdrawn there are about half of the public servers running it and the other half are running 1.1.i quit playing mp because of this reason.later

Oct 16, 2004, 09:05 PM	#55
manonty DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 1 Rep Power: 0	thanks