Below 30

Everything you said I disagree with, for one reason, consoles are PC's.

Consoles are just scaled down PC's and there is no logic, in your reasoning for why good games aren't on PC's. Do you remember that Splinter Cell was a PC game, that ended up being sourced to console and then re-ported to PC. Remember Halo was in the exact same situation and ended up a console priority game.

Your logic is the reason PC's failed as a viable gaming platform, your logic is the reason Microsoft couldn't keep sidewinder products alive. The RTS and FPS craze. Your type of logic forced people to have to use keyboard and mouse, because games like Doom3 and CS don't support gamepad (dumbest thing in the world). Then people stopped buying pads for PC and when console ports came to PC, people are going, "we don't have pads", so the developers said forget it and stayed console.

You can't back up your niche claim, because why is Halo so popular on console. Why did Jedi Knight make it to consoles, if it was a PC niche game. Why is Medal of Honour on consoles. Lazy people made the PC obsolete for gaming, because they are so afraid to click "OK" to install an application. PC's are way more versatile than any console, for gaming. Any type of gamepad/joystick, graph card, cpu, OS can be used and the list goes on.

Anybody that comes up with the formula, that PC's are only designed for RTS and FPS, are people I don't want to learn anything from, because they are seriously mis-lead.

The ATI "AI" will do nothing to stop the same people who complain about the games that caused PC's to be abandon from the good game manufacturers "Counter Strike". As always ATI is nice for the field of PC graph cards, but the reality is, "AI" is just another gimmick of marketing that won't change the reality that the PC industry is a hardware market and nothing more.

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[color=yellow][color=#ff1493]When Skills Ruled [/color][/color]

Forbidden Donut

While you may disagree with everything I said, I do agree with much of what you have. However, how is this MY logic. This is just my OPINION. Look at the industry as a whole. How many metroids or zeldas or virtua fighters do you see on pc? And what about Gran turismo? None. Those are the types of games I have my console for. Of course there are exceptions such as Need For Speed Underground. And I don't believe that pcs are only to play rts's or fps's, I used that as an example. There are some very good adventure titles as well, but you can't ignore the fact that they aren't all that popular compared with everything else. IMO the Medal of Honor series EATS on consoles. I play the pc versions. Why? Because of the control scheme that "I" seem to have forced on the industry. Keyboard and mouse has always been and probably always will be many more times precise than ANY gamepad. And as for you thinking that the pc gaming industry has failed and there are no good games on pc is just your OPINION. I play plenty of games on both pc and console because I enjoy them; that is MY opinion.

You said it best when mentioning that the pc industry is a hardware market. You are exactly right. This is why I think we need these optimizations. There are so many different combinations of hardware and software that nothing is guaranteed to run the same across multiple platforms. Yes, it is a marketing tool. No, I'm not getting worked up over it. ALL my games (yes, even Doom3) play wonderfully on my system. I was simply wondering if this new feature would work with my current hardware. I think it's great that it does, but I wouldn't have crapped a brick if it didn't.

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wiskerbizkit

K, now that this thread has been everywhere. when is ATI planning on releasing this?

Forbidden Donut

I hope it's with the next driver set.

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Below 30

It's interesting, because it was mentioned that, of course R3xx will be included in the feature update. But it isn't that obvious, because the R3xx series lost the 8bit stencil support feature that the 8500 had.

In the option menu for "driver", I can select 8bit stencil when using 8500 and it's greyed out when using 9700pro. That's how I know.

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[color=yellow][color=#ff1493]When Skills Ruled [/color][/color]

GunBLADE

hi im new around here i have a question

did you need to get the CCC version to have this features, or i can dl the normal drivers and have them instead?

because i didnt like the new CCC feature, and i think i dont gonna like it anyway.. yes i test it, is a bit buggy and to enable something you have to go trough alot of tabs.

so i preferr the old control panel.

mainman

First, welcome to driverHeaven, second, please read the article or thread in hand to look for your awnser.

About the article and all the information given, ill just gonna wait and see like i allways do. These features are all new, CCC/AI, so you have to give it time to mature. My Congrats goes out to Ati for there courage and iniciative to bring out new features to there drivers in order to give there users a bether gaming experience. Also i would like to Congrat DriverHeaven, Stu and Allan in particular, for there work and dedication to the comunity. Keep up the good work guys!

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BWX

This is what my games look like on my [COLOR=Red]OLD 9700PRO[/COLOR]

Let's see a screenshot of the best console game out- Looks nothing like that- The console/PC argument is an old one, and one that was over in my mind.

The new optimizations are fine, but this old card still pumps out much eye candy everyday.





And that is but one of many awesome games for the PC. COD UO, HL2 (soon), RBR, D3 (if you like that kind of thing) . MOH PA, etc,etc, etc........
-there are plenty of great games that [COLOR=Red]ATI hardware kicks ass[/COLOR] on.
Plus First Person Shooters suck on consoles.

SimBin GTR is coming out soon too- I'll still play GT4 on my old dusty PS2, but not for long, the horrible ALIASING gives me a headache.




here are some more pics for you to drool over-
http://driverheavenuploads.co.uk/BWX/FarCry0018.jpg
http://driverheavenuploads.co.uk/BWX/FarCry0020.jpg
http://driverheavenuploads.co.uk/BWX/FarCry0017.jpg


I feel sorry for console gamers... off to play Tiger Woods 2005 @ high res with AA and AF!! Let me know how it looks on the 400 x 300 screen....

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No_Style

Let's stay on topic please.

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BWX

There were a lot of peeps worried about their "OLD" hardware being left in the dust- I think they needed to remember that their old hardware is still very capable even without the optimizations. With the new software if can only extend the life of it for them.. The proof is in the puddin right?

Anyway, any word on the ETA of this new software? Or is that NDA still?

CATALYST maker

yes this is coming in the next CATALYST release version 4.10 (4 for 2004, 10 for 10th month or October)

The_Neon_Cowboy

The new features slated aren’t publicly known though some were mentioned by ATI in a recent interview. The biggest point is that the features aren’t limited like the old control panel.

Not exactly and even if they could it takes far more time money and
recourses to make changed to the old control panel then with CCC

There are many reason I would guess if I had to speculate because it’s easier
to add new features now and the last few months recently people have been
asking for it.

ATI doesn’t work that way, they work for improvements across the board not
just in benchmarks. People don’t play benchmarks now do they?

For one any time they make an major improvement, fix something, add
something fans have asked for they are allowed to boast if not only to let
people know it’s out there and draw feedback. Improvements across the
board are far from little news.

From what you said It is something you can use. But on another note what I’d recommend you do is what I normally do by a new cutting edge card and soon as the new cards hit sell what you have and get the newer card.


Instead of looking at $400-$500 in expense you can get away with 100-200 which is much more affordable wouldn’t you say? I’m not a rich man and it’s how I constantly afford to upgrade.


Ati doesn’t normally release betas to the public. I would assume it will fallow the usual schedule and considering were 1/3 way though this month already. It shouldn’t be to awfully long.

To speculate purely from the article: It’s a little more vigorous but as in the article it sounds like there is slightly more overhead in the advanced mode. So if you not running a higher end system then the extra overhead required may cancel out your gains.

Serious allegations, actually I assume your talking about me and that threads been locked since early this morning it looks like when this was article posted. I couldn’t of edited or removed a post even If I had wanted to. My guess is you’re clearly mistaken or confused. I quoted K.I.L.E.R and innocently made fun of the last statement he made in his post that the Zardon has quoted which ends “Note: This is my assumption which has no basis.” I said the last statement was a killer to fun/jest with the guy. I suggest you pay more attention read more carefully in the future before making such serious allegations.

Feel free to read and re read the thread as many times as you need.
http://www.hardwareheaven.com/showthre...8&page=1&pp=50


No games on PC's There are countless 10's if not hundreds of thousands op PC games there is a small index here [color=#800080]http://www.3dgamers.com/games/[/color]
Also keep in mind all console games can be played on PC’s you can’t say the same about consoles now can you? -nope

As it stands consoles are like $50-$100 1998 PC’s in speed and power. They all uniform the exact same setup as to eliminate incompatibilities there is only 1 test environment. TV’s games haven’t even began to touch the detail quality and complexity and updateability of pc based games. (TV Fps is relatively low compaired to pc monitores as well ) A console gamer can hardly call then self much of a gamer at all. Technically a single payer PC game is a gamer but nothing like the hardcore PC multi player breed of gamer of wich I am a member. I lay waste to many multiplayer gamers and find console players to easy to beat. Once you reached that plane you find single player gaming boring for the most part. Especially the predictability and stupidly of the games AI’s. Playing against living breathing thinking and skilled players is way more challenging.

Consoles and console games spell one thing money from a lot of people can’t afford a PC or can’t afford a good one. Instead they usually turn to inexpensive gaming consoles. They have a convenience to them such as their size an simplicity.

For example a few things you can’t do with consoles you can do with pc games, update and patch, add maps, use or make modifications and tweak to your likening. Also you can’t multi payer game, setup severs, use in game voice chat.

Pc games are way more advanced the console games… even the fastest of consoles are using custom RISC 300-800mhz CPU’s, Modified older GPU’s, 16-32 MB of video ram, and 32-64mb of actual system ram. that may change but that is hardly any comparisons to the monstrously fast pc hardware we have today that push and blow console games away... But console's have thier place

That’s depends on many factors and things but you shouldn’t have to do that. 98XX isn’t high end anymore compared to the new X800 series cards. But they will likely hold their own for the foreseeable future. I have an old original Radion 64 Mb vivo that can still play games like ut2004 at 1024x768 and the settings lowed no aa/af very playable.

How much muscle you need depends on how demanding the game you playing and how much eye candy AA / AF you’d like to use.

A lot of those games can be played on PC using an emulator, others have been ported but have never been popular. Because of poor IQ, simplicity and PC gamers hold games to a higher stand then that… IMO :Mindless, pointless, short games pelage the consoles…

Some what regarding the preview. But, I find it very useable it not as simple and straight forward but once you get the hang of it grows on you. To many old hands are used to the old one.

Sadly I can guarantee you some one has an expensive pc with a X800 XT PE and they likely use it as a word processor.

CM allready stated the AI will be CCC only. If I had to guess all new features will all likely be CCC only.

Yes, please! I was just catching up! anyone wants to dicuss anything besides "AI" start a new thread and don't worry we will find it and discuss it there...

EDIT: Wow that was a long post

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Forbidden Donut

I agree, I was just givin' my .02 as to why certain games and certain types of games are on console and some are on pc. I was also stating the fact that these game are GUARANTEED to work on the console they were made. This isn't necessarily the case with an emulator. There's also no need for optimization on a console because of the uniform hardware. Oh, and while I may have rotted more than a few brain cells in front of the boob tube playin' Metroid and Zelda, I would hardly call those mindless, pointless games .

EDIT: Just saw this on your post - Sadly I can guarantee you some one has an expensive pc with a X800 XT PE and they likely use it as a word processor.

I actually know someone similar, though not to that extreme thankfully. Has a NV 5700fx which is like his 3rd vid card in less than a year only cuz it's not as good as my other friend's card. He's played UT2K4 maybe a few times since he had it and that's it. Now he's ready for another vid card?! What a maroon!

__________________
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Zardon

Guys this thread is getting WAY off topic, its about Catalyst AI, remember?

Xp2000

Hey Zardon,
Long Time (About 2years) No see !
Why dont you tell me how that AI is going to help me.
I read the article and at the end I see that whoever wrote the article didnt seem to be that impressed. ( Or I could be misunderstanding)
Anyways, Most people Other than the ones that have to suck up to Ati are saying Ai is complete crap. Please set me straight on this.
Also, Doom3 was a killer game. I cant believe you said it wasnt that enjoyable.
Just because it didnt run as good on your ati card doesnt mean you have to bash it. I know, It didnt offer anything more than pretty graphics and nothing is new in the gameplay yada yada but Its a cool game.
I do hope hl2 is better but the question is will they ever finally get it released.
Give us more of your thoughts on AI.

Zardon

Im not sure about "sucking" up to ATI but yes the company are good and we like them and generally they put out good products with inventive new ideas and genuinely seem interested in the community as a whole as you can see by their interaction with the end user on forums.

Stuart likes Catalyst AI, he did the review and I think while its early days, it has potential, apart from self adjusting to suit a game and to increase frame rates with no visible loss in quality it also will solve issues for users in games with for example problems with AA (as ive mentioned in this thread before). A user is playing UT2004 with AA and AF on, quits the game to play Prince of Persia, normally you would get corrupted textures and problems with water effects (the glowing we have seen). catalyst AI will intervene, turn AA off and when you quit this particular game and go to play another, AA is back on, so less work with toggling options in the control panel.

As for Doom 3, why cant I bash it if I think the game is rubbish? Am I excluded from having an opinion because I own Driverheaven? I think not. Its powered by a great engine, but running around corridoors for many hours shooting dumb zombies bored me shortly after I was impressed with the graphics. Incidentally perhaps in your two year absense from DH you might have missed the fact I have a 6800 ultra and a Quadro FX2000 as well, runs much better on them than the ATI board, but this isnt likely to make the game more playable. Half life 2? were you asking or just commenting in general? ive no idea, hopefully soon.

Anyway nice to see you back around here even if your feedback seemed somewhat aggressive.

sacrifice

maybe im blind but i can never tell the diff b/w the screenies of the same scene ><

both x800xt (ops on and off) and 6800u (ops on and off) seem (to me) to show no diff in the scene quality :\

Zardon

Shows that the optimisations are good then, right?

interspaced

i'll be interested to try it out. I'm most interested in the "high" setting. I heard you need a more powerful processor to get the benifits out of this. If so how much faster?

DPGX

Great article, would it be at all possible to check out some benches on lower end cards such as 9600 series cards? Some of the guys over at rage3d stated that lower end cards will see a greater % performance increase. Im just kind of curious how its going to perform Very well written article though!

Mike

Zardon

Hi Mike, we are pretty swamped with projects at the minute but if stuart can get some time over the coming period its something we can look into.

The guys at rage3d incidentally probably read our offical statement from ATI published here a day or so ago.

Veridian3

I quite like AI, i like the ease of use it gives through the scenario Zardon mentioned (UT>POP etc). I also like the improvements in Doom3... and its the potential in this that makes me like AI even more. Starting now, ATI can take any game and improve it for their customers... a good example other than D3's shader changes is Farcry.

Cat AI would look at the card, say a X800 and the game then say hold on a sec i can enable Geometary Instancing here... and it does so. The end user doesnt need to worry about what it is or does or even if its supported. Cat AI automatically sets the perfect gaming experience for them. The potential is huge in this and thats what i most like about it.

BWX

I wonder if custom drivers such as Omega's will be able to utilize AI w/o using the CCC? If not that's going to put a hamper on all the custom drivers out there.

Shinjikun

The CCC isn't recommended with the Omega Drivers so hopefully there will be a way to enable\change the Catalyst AI settings in future versions of the Catalyst Suite & 3rd party modifications like the Omega Drivers.

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Xfire: [Shinji1225 \ Status]
A7N8X-E Deluxe
Athlon XP 2500+ (@ 2.2 GHz 11x200 MHz FSB)
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[color=red]ATi [/color][color=white]Radeon 9500 Pro (@ 330\310) \ [/color][color=white]Omega Catalyst Drivers v2.5.90[/color]
[color=white]Ultra X-Connect 500W PSU[/color]

TheIceMan

now iam happy that i buyed some years ago only the "cheap" r9500 np

dose anyone know when the x700 will be avalible @ europe?

BWX

I know it isn't "recommended" with THIS set of drivers, I am talking about in the future..

...the future Conan??

Yes, all the way to the year 2000..

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Lchevy79

well ive been playing with the ai in the cat drivers and in omegas. i must say i like it . it sorta makes the drivers idiot proof doesnt it by auto configing for different games.

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