Valve is shutting down over 20,000 accounts for illegal cdkey use!

Ev!L-aLphA · Nov 23, 2004, 05:45 AM

"If you know what 5J52E-FVKXV-882FQ-YJXRQ-DOD98 is for and tried it, please try and refrain from being too upset in your posts.

If you don't know what it was for, it was part of a way to steal HL2 which doesn't work anymore.

If you've got questions about your disabled account, please read the support FAQ My Account is Disabled, Why? for further information."

Official quote from the steam forums by moderator "MATT"

Quote:

20,000 accounts are getting disabled.

Source: Steam Powered
Please discuss at driverheaven.

crapman777 · Nov 23, 2004, 06:00 AM

hohoho well i dont agree with how valve have organised online registration because some people i know only have dialup and its been an issue but back to the topic, serves these cheating f**ks. I praise valve for weeding out those that arent going to support the game.
Expensive and poorly made games results from Piracy, not the other way round.
People should be paying like the rest of us to enjoy it. It is a great game and i personally have had no trouble with the mulitplayer or singleplayer... which by the way has some of the fastest servers of all the games i have, at least in Australia.

Congrats to Valve and VU on HL2!!!

eggs420 · Nov 23, 2004, 06:05 AM

Bawhaha. Only 20,000?

ronnn · Nov 23, 2004, 06:54 AM

Well the tone of that whole thread turned me off valve. If my activation key does not work when it arrives tommorrow, I will be pissed. But I may never buy another vavle product, if they can just turn off your service with an accusation of some kind. When I buy a game, I expect to own it.

Nuke209 · Nov 23, 2004, 07:59 AM

if you bought it, don't worry
i believe that was the version valve released on the net to catch these bad people

Distroyed · Nov 23, 2004, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nuke209

if you bought it, don't worry
i believe that was the version valve released on the net to catch these bad people

Valve didnt "release" their own game or cd keys on the net. They merely allowed it to go on for a week so they could f everyone over at once.

Nuke209 · Nov 23, 2004, 09:31 AM

my bad

klevo · Nov 23, 2004, 09:48 AM

90% of these acount are just fake, with no money on them.

BWX · Nov 23, 2004, 10:50 AM

I bought the game off Steam and don't even have a cd-key... At least I don't know where it is.

starfury6 · Nov 23, 2004, 11:39 AM

None of us who bought via steam have a cdkey, it's all related to our Steam account information as to what we own.

The retail box came with a key to verify the purchase.

rjpogi · Nov 23, 2004, 11:48 AM

valve is really pushing the envelope in minimizing piracy, good for them

LeanWolf · Nov 23, 2004, 11:58 AM

if you're stupid enough to register a pirate cd key on your personal account, then you deserve everything you get

the world is full of morons

~~REGENERAT1ON~~ · Nov 23, 2004, 11:58 AM

hehe good work valveeeeeeeeeeeee

Danhill · Nov 23, 2004, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeanWolf

if you're stupid enough to register a pirate cd key on your personal account, then you deserve everything you get

the world is full of morons

lol

Very good point there!!

MagamiEiko · Nov 23, 2004, 12:05 PM

I don't necessarily agree with how Valve is going about handling software piracy. By disabling these Steam accounts (and subsequently possibly banning innocent people), they are insisting that they don't want people to purchase the game if they at one point had attempted to pirate it.

This is just wrong, in my opinion. Though many of these Steam accounts may be dummy accounts anyway (to 'prevent' Steam from having legitimate information of some of its pirated users), some of these may in fact be the accounts that people were going to use to purchase it anyway.

Just because someone pirates a game initially does not mean that the person is always going to be a pirate of that game. For a good example, the Christmas holidays are fast approaching. Many of these pirates may in fact be teenagers who want to play the game prior to getting the game for Christmas. They're still going to purchase the game, sure...it's just that right now they don't personally have the financial ability than a lot of others--hell, I even have a job and it's hard to keep up with the rising prices of games and video hardware.

Another example would be someone in a cash strapped situation myself. I've got a GF4 Ti4200, the card is 2.5 years old. It's about time I upgrade, but what do I want to invest my heard earned money on? The video hardware to play the game, or the game?

And you do always have the people who pirate it just because, even if they could afford it. But can you blame them? Without a decently-sized demo to try out the game, why would they not want to pirate it? Why hasn't Valve released a 2-3 level demo of HL2 or 2 level demo of CS:S to the community to be able to play online without actually having the full version of the game? For example, back in the Duke Nukem 3D days, you could have the DN3D game and could still play with someone who had the full game so as long as they didn't choose a map that wasn't available in the demo.

It would tie a much larger amount of people over until they could scrounge together the money to purchase their increasingly expensive games.

Phantom69 · Nov 23, 2004, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagamiEiko

<snip>

Just because someone pirates a game initially does not mean that the person is always going to be a pirate of that game. For a good example, the Christmas holidays are fast approaching. Many of these pirates may in fact be teenagers who want to play the game prior to getting the game for Christmas. They're still going to purchase the game, sure...it's just that right now they don't personally have the financial ability than a lot of others--hell, I even have a job and it's hard to keep up with the rising prices of games and video hardware.
<snip>

Riiiiggghhhhtttt.... So if someone steals a car, they shouldn't automatically be convicted of theft, because they might have been planning to buy a car at a later date yes?

MagamiEiko · Nov 23, 2004, 12:17 PM

You have to remember that digital data and physical property is much different. Despite the marginal cost of producing extra cars is very small, the fact is that stealing a car deprives someone else of being able to purchase that car. "Stealing" digital data in no way deprives someone else from being able to legally purchase that same data.

To me, it is 2 very different types of "stealing" and physical property and digital data should not be confused with eachother. Because with stolen physical property, a sale is 100% definitely lost--assuming the person who stole the car wouldnt've bought it anyway. If you assume that the person would've bought it (like many digital companies do with software), then technically it is 2 lost sales. 1, because you didn't pay for it and 2, because the property was not there to sell to another person.

So it's very different.

Nonetheless, banning may not have an effect either way. Pirates are just going to pirate the game other ways, after all, there are many ways to get Hl2 w/o using some pirated key through Steam. "Scaring" them into purchasing may have a very negative effect, especially in a community as tight knit as the HL and CS communities.

Phantom69 · Nov 23, 2004, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagamiEiko

You have to remember that digital data and physical property is much different. Despite the marginal cost of producing extra cars is very small, the fact is that stealing a car deprives someone else of being able to purchase that car. "Stealing" digital data in no way deprives someone else from being able to legally purchase that same data.

To me, it is 2 very different types of "stealing" and physical property and digital data should not be confused with eachother. Because with stolen physical property, a sale is 100% definitely lost--assuming the person who stole the car wouldnt've bought it anyway. If you assume that the person would've bought it (like many digital companies do with software), then technically it is 2 lost sales. 1, because you didn't pay for it and 2, because the property was not there to sell to another person.

So it's very different.

Sorry, it is still obtaining something through deception whether it is one lost sale or two. The main problem with software theft is, unfortunately, that it is still far too easy, and relatively anonymous - so people feel less guilty about doing it.
You're quite right about the questionable effectiveness of banning accounts. There's always someone clever enough to find a way round software protection/activation schemes, and its usually the casual/curious user that ends of getting burnt the most.

P69

lamar1234 · Nov 23, 2004, 01:03 PM

I understand the need to protect intellectual property in an age where piracy is rampant. However, I can't tell you how pissed I was to have plunked down fifty hard earned dollars for this game only to find out that I have to have Steam 'decrypt' the files that I installed on my hard drive. This was for a retail copy! So, in reality, I own the game, but I don't OWN it. I read Doug Lombardi say that as soon as a retail key is authenticated, you could play offline from then on. OK, if that's true, how come I have to disconnect my network to enter offline mode every time I want to play the game? What happens five years down the road when Steam is gone and there are no servers left to connect to? I fear that more businesses will follow Valve's model, not less. Eventually, this will pertain to all media, not just games. How does not being able to buy DVDs strike you? To be told that you have to pay twenty dollars only to find out you can only watch the disc three or four times before it nukes itself. I can only hope that we as consumers who legitimately purchase products let these companies know that when we buy something, we OWN it, not RENT it. Just my two cents.

knuth · Nov 23, 2004, 01:17 PM

Read your EULA - "this software is licensed not sold".

If people didnt pirate data there would be no need for ever more stringent anti-measures. Good for Valve. If only a lot of those pirates could have that theft added to their criminal record.

crapman777 · Nov 23, 2004, 01:55 PM

If you have kept up with news valve did indeed release a warezed version of HL2 to catch people out. 20000 accounts disabled means a lot of money. Imagine they could potention make a cool 2 million australian dollars if those 20000 people had purchased the game, and the activation thing is a cinch if u have broadband, if you dont, why would you even have the game??? i mean singleplayer is all well and good but its the multiplayer aspect that is important.

If you dont have broadband too bloody bad.

WaltC · Nov 23, 2004, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagamiEiko

You have to remember that digital data and physical property is much different. Despite the marginal cost of producing extra cars is very small, the fact is that stealing a car deprives someone else of being able to purchase that car. "Stealing" digital data in no way deprives someone else from being able to legally purchase that same data.

To me, it is 2 very different types of "stealing" and physical property and digital data should not be confused with eachother....

OK, so I suppose that if I copied your above post verbatim, removed your name, and passed it off in my name to Computer Nerd magazine and CN was nerdy enough to pay me $100 for it and reprint it in 8 languages internationally--that it would be A-OK with you since your words, concepts, and thoughts aren't "physical" and are therefore worthless?....[img]images/smilies/big%20grin.gif[/img]

I think you've badly confused the term "digital" with the term "IP" (which means "Intellectual Property.") The word "digital" simply refers to a type of media and not to the content of the information distributed via that media. "Intellectual Property" is the correct word to describe the information distributed on any type of media (be it analog, digital, paper, or otherwise.) Regardless of how many copies of the IP are distributed, and regardless of the type of media employed, there is only *one* IP which is distributed, and the owner of that IP is entitled to renumeration on every single copy of the IP he owns which is distributed--not because he owns the media, but because he owns the IP distributed on that media. Of course, whether people will consider a given IP to be worth the price of purchase the owner demands is another issue entirely.

Disabling pirated CD keys in Steam is a no-brainer for Valve. Even if 90% of the people using Steam via the pirated CD activation # ultimately decide the game is not worth the purchase price and never buy it, Valve has lost nothing and at the same time has removed 18,000 non-paying users from the Steam network and in the process reserved a nice chunk of bandwidth for its paying Steam customers without any need to expand the Steam network infrastructure Valve must maintain physically and financially--which is a win for both Valve and its paying Steam customers at the same time.

My pet disagreement with Steam thus far and, indeed, with all purported anti-piracy measures ever used (including WinXP activation), is that they are failing to produce the results they have been instituted to produce, which is, namely, a reduction in piracy which creates a simultaneous reduction in the price per copy of the IP distributed.

Software companies have long maintained that the reason IP-per-copy software prices have remained high is because of software piracy. But, if anti-piracy measures such as Steam account activation are actually working as intended, then the price per-copy of the Valve IP should fall accordingly, as should the price for WinXP, etc.

The best weapon software IP distributors have against piracy is their retail MSRP, bar none. The closer to zero the MSRP moves the less incentive people have for either casually copying it or commercially bootlegging it, as the relationship between per-IP-copy retail cost and software piracy is perfectly relational and proportional. The lower the IP per-copy MSRP the lower the resulting piracy of your IP, and so the greater number of copies the IP owner will ultimately sell.

But what companies like M$ and Valve have done with their anti-piracy initiatives to date is simply to use them to maintain their traditionally high MSRPs instead of using them in tandem along with much lower per-copy MSRPs to eliminate piracy to the greatest extent possible. Until software anti-piracy measures like Steam account activation and WinXP activation are used along with much lower per-copy MSRPs, software piracy will continue to rob these companies of a fair percentage of their sales in terms of copies sold. But since these companies do not wish to lower their traditional MSRP levels it must be assumed that they *prefer* it this way, and are content with present levels of software piracy.

Valve's Steam activation carries with it a double whammy in this regard, if not a double imperative. Unlike M$, by selling through Steam Valve is eliminating the middlemen of the software publishers *and* the retail distributors. Take the "standard" HL2 distribution, for instance. You can buy it through Steam direct from Valve and you pay a mere $5 less than you pay to buy a boxed copy of the game off the shelf at a WalMart or a Best Buy's, etc. Yet, we know for a fact that Valve is receiving far less per copy for HL2 from Sierra than from its direct Steam customers, since the $55 MSRP of a boxed Sierra copy of HL2 *includes* profits for Sierra *and* profits to the WalMarts and Best Buys which sell them off the shelf. There is absolutely *no way* that Sierra is actually paying Valve $50 per copy of standard HL2...

Heh...

(I'd guess $20 -$25 tops.) Building in assumptions of the Steam network costs at ~$5 or so per copy, we ought to be able to buy HL2 direct through Steam from Valve for $24.99-$29.99, I believe.

So the real question is why direct Steam purchasers cannot obtain HL2 for the same price per copy + ~$5 that Valve sells it per copy to Sierra. (That's why I bought HL2 standard retail boxed instead of through Steam direct--until Valve's direct pricing falls in line I'll continue to do so.) One might argue, I suppose, that due to its agreements with Sierra Valve has to charge a certain price to "keep Sierra happy." But this assumes Valve is unhappy with Sierra and wishes to break its relationship with Sierra and to go it alone with Steam. Based on the current Steam IP pricing I see no evidence of this, however, despite their current lawsuits--which seem ultimately superficial and self-serving to me--and indicate that despite appearances Valve and Vivendi are very much in bed together in this whole matter...

IMO, it's up to Sierra to justify its retail pricing in terms of *added value* over and above what a Steam-direct purchase will buy a customer--and the retail boxed version I bought completely fails to do that. It adds *nothing* that I can see, to a Steam purchase, except $5 more in price...

But, until Valve Steam-direct IP pricing falls in line, I'll continue to buy retail and avoid Steam purchasing simply because I know that Valve receives far less per copy that way than it receives through Steam direct at the current Steam pricing, and I see no reason to provide Valve with windfall profits. And so, until Steam pricing dramatically falls to reflect its costs to Valve, I'll continue to buy retail.

Fascinating topic, and I wish I had more time at the moment...

crapman777 · Nov 23, 2004, 02:02 PM

Magamieiko, youre an idiot, to say someone wants to pirate a game to try it out before buying it. The action is not justified. I cant steal a car just so i can try it out before i buy it...
stealing is stealing
as for demos, well demos dont always give a good grasp of the game, and where would you start with HalfLife2 the whole game is great, why ruin it.
If you cant afford the game, too bad, blame those that do pirate games, thats partly why they are so expensive.

lamar1234 · Nov 23, 2004, 02:12 PM

Every EULA says the same thing, but every game I have purchased with the exception of HL2, does not require me to log in to a network account in order to play. Besides, there are anti-piracy measures that are coming out that do not require the installation of software that I don't want on my computer (namely Steam). Call me a greedy American individualist, but I believe in the freedom to choose, and not to have something forced on me. The newest version of SafeDisc, for example, incorporates a technology called SilentAlarm. This technology detects any alteration to the game code and causes the game to behave abnormally. For instance, a game like Doom 3 would operate normally a few times, but after that, your aim would be off, guns wouldn't fire properly, etc. The fact is, no anti-piracy measure will ever be foolproof and going to extremes like this will only serve to piss off the legitimate customers who go out and pay for the game. Pirates don't care, because they'll just find a way around it. In fact, I would not be surprised if they were off somewhere laughing their butts off over all of this. I know that some people don't find this network registration stuff to be a problem and that's fine. I just wish that Valve could have found a way to incorporate anti-piracy measures without ramming Steam down everybody's throat.

Jitter · Nov 23, 2004, 02:16 PM

I do not have a problem paying for a quality game, or a game that I am anticipating. I know some people DL every game they get, but i think alot of people DL games that they probably wouldnt be buying anyways. I believe that the way the net is now that piracy can not be stopped, and anti piracy measures only jack up the price for paying customers. I think that its a mistake to require a net connection to activate the game. I plan on getting the game w/ in a day or 2, but i am on dial up and i am kinda nervous about the whole activation thing. Also not everyone has a net connection, does that mean they shouldnt be allowed to play this game? I do not understand that type of thinking.

"cinch if u have broadband, if you dont, why would you even have the game??? "

First of all some people enjoy single player more than multiplayer. It just comes down to personal preference. To say that multiplayer is the only important aspect is kinda ridiculous in my opinion. I used to play Raven shield on my dial up and enjoyed it, but the single player was also fun.

Vikingod · Nov 23, 2004, 02:56 PM

I don't see what the big issue is. If you stole your copy, you don't own it. they have the right to shut you down. I don't care for steam, but I know why they do what they do. People might as well get used to it, I think other companies are going to follow suite. It is a pain in the ass, a pain create by software pirates. I say good for them. If you don't want to pay admission, like many of us did, then you shoulding be able to watch the game.

crapman777 · Nov 23, 2004, 03:00 PM

lamar1234
All protections are eventually overcome, any software can be broken down, simply because if you know how to read machine code it isnt hard to extract the contents of a file and find the protection, then remove it, protection is not really going to do much, what valve have done is essentially gone to a greater length.
A video shop down the road isnt even hiring out HL2 because of the activation and they hire a lot of pc games, and what someone else said, disabling 20000 accounts creates extra bandwidth on servers. I AGREE. My pings for CS have been around 30-40 and i dont experience this sort of ping in many of my other games.
If u dont like it, play something else, cause there isnt much we can do now is there?

lamar1234 · Nov 23, 2004, 03:17 PM

No, there isn't much we can do, and that's unfortunate. I'm not upset with Valve to the point of some sort of boycott and I can deal with playing HL2 through Steam, but IMHO, I think that there are better ways to deal with the piracy issue. I just think people who purchase the game legitimately should have a choice as to whether or not they want to install Steam on their computer. You can authenticate over the web without being forced to install another piece of software. Who knows? Maybe this is just a big experiment for Valve to see how it goes. They'll probably think of something totally different when HL3 comes out. Perhaps they will take user opinions into account (like the ones offered in this and other forums) and offer more choices next time. Choice and variety is always a good thing.

tazdevl · Nov 23, 2004, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagamiEiko

I don't necessarily agree with how Valve is going about handling software piracy. By disabling these Steam accounts (and subsequently possibly banning innocent people), they are insisting that they don't want people to purchase the game if they at one point had attempted to pirate it.

This is just wrong, in my opinion. Though many of these Steam accounts may be dummy accounts anyway (to 'prevent' Steam from having legitimate information of some of its pirated users), some of these may in fact be the accounts that people were going to use to purchase it anyway.

Just because someone pirates a game initially does not mean that the person is always going to be a pirate of that game. For a good example, the Christmas holidays are fast approaching. Many of these pirates may in fact be teenagers who want to play the game prior to getting the game for Christmas. They're still going to purchase the game, sure...it's just that right now they don't personally have the financial ability than a lot of others--hell, I even have a job and it's hard to keep up with the rising prices of games and video hardware.

Another example would be someone in a cash strapped situation myself. I've got a GF4 Ti4200, the card is 2.5 years old. It's about time I upgrade, but what do I want to invest my heard earned money on? The video hardware to play the game, or the game?

And you do always have the people who pirate it just because, even if they could afford it. But can you blame them? Without a decently-sized demo to try out the game, why would they not want to pirate it? Why hasn't Valve released a 2-3 level demo of HL2 or 2 level demo of CS:S to the community to be able to play online without actually having the full version of the game? For example, back in the Duke Nukem 3D days, you could have the DN3D game and could still play with someone who had the full game so as long as they didn't choose a map that wasn't available in the demo.

It would tie a much larger amount of people over until they could scrounge together the money to purchase their increasingly expensive games.

1) If people were stupid enough to have a valid key and a pirated key associated with a steam account, I'm surprised they were able to install the game. Think about it. I doubt anyone will be affected by this. Just set up a new Steam account.

2) Everything else you wrote is a steaming pile of shit and empty justifications.

-If you can't afford the game, you shouldn't be able to play it. Period. So if I can't afford a Ferrari, is it OK for me to steal one from a truck going to a dealership?
-How many people are going to play it through one time and never touch it again? I'm done with the game, will never play it again and I bought the game. If they shut down people that aren't going to buy the game, they haven't lost anything.
-If you only were able to play a bit of the game before you were shut down, liked it, chances are you're more likely to buy it than if you were able to play it carte blanche with a pirated key.
-Lately demos have proceeded the actual release of the game. Doom3 came out what... a few weeks after the game was released. I'm sure we'll see something in the near future. So the key word here is... patience. Being anxious isn't an excuse to pirate a game.
-Your decision to buy a game or hardware, that's your problem. You still need to PAY for them.
-Valve and Vivendi are in the business to make money. Their goal is to turn a profit. Like it or not, they aren't in the business of donating games and taking a loss. Damn right they want to get every dollar they can get. Why do you think Valve developed Steam? It's a way to get publishers (Vivendi) out of the loop so developers can keep the bulk of the money themselves.

tazdevl · Nov 23, 2004, 04:05 PM

Walt... good points. I don't think you'll see much in the way of price reductions because the justification of the developers is BS. Profitability is the key reason for high prices.

My guess is that there's a ~3-5% piracy rate across the board, could be more could be less. If you distribute the cost of the product for that 3% (and all other associated costs) over the other 97%, doesn't result in much of a saving when you get down to it.

In terms of pricing, have to disagree with you on that. While in theory, dropping prices should decrease piracy... practially it could be a death knell for tons of companies. The number of copies that would need to be sold to even break even would be phenomenal... not to mention, pricing is not an easy task and most companies don't do it right in the current market. I can see, in the low price to stop piracy market, many companies setting the price too low, not selling enough... then what do they do... increase the price in a market where everyone has priced low? Couldn't happen.

Nov 23, 2004, 06:05 AM	#3
eggs420 my bud > yours Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: chicago Posts: 399 Rep Power: 0	Bawhaha. Only 20,000? __________________ AMD64 2800+ // Chaintech VNF3-250 // 2X512mb PDI ddr400 2-3-2-5 // 80gb 7200RPM WD w/8mb cache // Leadtek 6800GT // 144kbit IDSL Clan -=CCC=- Admin 69.31.96.68 BF2 PUBLIC RANKED SERVER 205.218.65.236 BF2 DEMO SERVER

Nov 23, 2004, 07:59 AM	#5
Nuke209 DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: St. Paul Posts: 568 Rep Power: 0	if you bought it, don't worry i believe that was the version valve released on the net to catch these bad people __________________ 2006 Subaru Impreza WRX

Nov 23, 2004, 09:31 AM	#7
Nuke209 DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: St. Paul Posts: 568 Rep Power: 0	my bad __________________ 2006 Subaru Impreza WRX

Nov 23, 2004, 10:50 AM	#9
BWX unplugged Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: USNY Posts: 19,610 Rep Power: 99	I bought the game off Steam and don't even have a cd-key... At least I don't know where it is. __________________ One Big Ass Mistake America

Nov 23, 2004, 11:39 AM	#10
starfury6 Dark Jedi Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Essex, England Posts: 334 Rep Power: 0	None of us who bought via steam have a cdkey, it's all related to our Steam account information as to what we own. The retail box came with a key to verify the purchase. __________________ [color=DeepSkyBlue][/color] [color=DeepSkyBlue] Intel Q6600 / Dual 8800 GTS 512/ Asus Striker II Formula OCZ 4GB DDR2 1066 / Scythe Ninja / Hyper 880w 3 x Maxtor 750GB total SATAII / LG Multi Blu[/color]

Nov 23, 2004, 06:00 AM	#2
crapman777 DriverHeaven Lover Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 155 Rep Power: 0	hohoho well i dont agree with how valve have organised online registration because some people i know only have dialup and its been an issue but back to the topic, serves these cheating f**ks. I praise valve for weeding out those that arent going to support the game. Expensive and poorly made games results from Piracy, not the other way round. People should be paying like the rest of us to enjoy it. It is a great game and i personally have had no trouble with the mulitplayer or singleplayer... which by the way has some of the fastest servers of all the games i have, at least in Australia. Congrats to Valve and VU on HL2!!!

Nov 23, 2004, 06:54 AM	#4
ronnn DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 617 Rep Power: 0	Well the tone of that whole thread turned me off valve. If my activation key does not work when it arrives tommorrow, I will be pissed. But I may never buy another vavle product, if they can just turn off your service with an accusation of some kind. When I buy a game, I expect to own it.

Nov 23, 2004, 09:48 AM	#8
klevo 2 l33t Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Slovakia Posts: 587 Rep Power: 0	90% of these acount are just fake, with no money on them.

Nov 23, 2004, 11:48 AM	#11
rjpogi DriverHeaven Lover Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Seoul-Tokyo Connection Posts: 235 Rep Power: 0	valve is really pushing the envelope in minimizing piracy, good for them __________________ AMD 64 +3000 Venice 2 Infineon 1 gig PC2700 333Mhz DDRAM ECS Elite nForce3a Mobo Seagate Barracuda 120GB HD SoundBlaster Audigy2 ZS Inno3D Geforce 6600 AGP

Nov 23, 2004, 11:58 AM	#12
LeanWolf alpha male Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: offpiste Posts: 5,597 Rep Power: 60	if you're stupid enough to register a pirate cd key on your personal account, then you deserve everything you get the world is full of morons __________________

Nov 23, 2004, 11:58 AM	#13
~~REGENERAT1ON~~ NGO Crew Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 409 Rep Power: 0	hehe good work valveeeeeeeeeeeee

Nov 23, 2004, 12:05 PM	#15
MagamiEiko DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 3 Rep Power: 0	I don't necessarily agree with how Valve is going about handling software piracy. By disabling these Steam accounts (and subsequently possibly banning innocent people), they are insisting that they don't want people to purchase the game if they at one point had attempted to pirate it. This is just wrong, in my opinion. Though many of these Steam accounts may be dummy accounts anyway (to 'prevent' Steam from having legitimate information of some of its pirated users), some of these may in fact be the accounts that people were going to use to purchase it anyway. Just because someone pirates a game initially does not mean that the person is always going to be a pirate of that game. For a good example, the Christmas holidays are fast approaching. Many of these pirates may in fact be teenagers who want to play the game prior to getting the game for Christmas. They're still going to purchase the game, sure...it's just that right now they don't personally have the financial ability than a lot of others--hell, I even have a job and it's hard to keep up with the rising prices of games and video hardware. Another example would be someone in a cash strapped situation myself. I've got a GF4 Ti4200, the card is 2.5 years old. It's about time I upgrade, but what do I want to invest my heard earned money on? The video hardware to play the game, or the game? And you do always have the people who pirate it just because, even if they could afford it. But can you blame them? Without a decently-sized demo to try out the game, why would they not want to pirate it? Why hasn't Valve released a 2-3 level demo of HL2 or 2 level demo of CS:S to the community to be able to play online without actually having the full version of the game? For example, back in the Duke Nukem 3D days, you could have the DN3D game and could still play with someone who had the full game so as long as they didn't choose a map that wasn't available in the demo. It would tie a much larger amount of people over until they could scrounge together the money to purchase their increasingly expensive games.

Nov 23, 2004, 12:17 PM	#17
MagamiEiko DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 3 Rep Power: 0	You have to remember that digital data and physical property is much different. Despite the marginal cost of producing extra cars is very small, the fact is that stealing a car deprives someone else of being able to purchase that car. "Stealing" digital data in no way deprives someone else from being able to legally purchase that same data. To me, it is 2 very different types of "stealing" and physical property and digital data should not be confused with eachother. Because with stolen physical property, a sale is 100% definitely lost--assuming the person who stole the car wouldnt've bought it anyway. If you assume that the person would've bought it (like many digital companies do with software), then technically it is 2 lost sales. 1, because you didn't pay for it and 2, because the property was not there to sell to another person. So it's very different. Nonetheless, banning may not have an effect either way. Pirates are just going to pirate the game other ways, after all, there are many ways to get Hl2 w/o using some pirated key through Steam. "Scaring" them into purchasing may have a very negative effect, especially in a community as tight knit as the HL and CS communities.

Nov 23, 2004, 01:03 PM	#19
lamar1234 DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 3 Rep Power: 0	I understand the need to protect intellectual property in an age where piracy is rampant. However, I can't tell you how pissed I was to have plunked down fifty hard earned dollars for this game only to find out that I have to have Steam 'decrypt' the files that I installed on my hard drive. This was for a retail copy! So, in reality, I own the game, but I don't OWN it. I read Doug Lombardi say that as soon as a retail key is authenticated, you could play offline from then on. OK, if that's true, how come I have to disconnect my network to enter offline mode every time I want to play the game? What happens five years down the road when Steam is gone and there are no servers left to connect to? I fear that more businesses will follow Valve's model, not less. Eventually, this will pertain to all media, not just games. How does not being able to buy DVDs strike you? To be told that you have to pay twenty dollars only to find out you can only watch the disc three or four times before it nukes itself. I can only hope that we as consumers who legitimately purchase products let these companies know that when we buy something, we OWN it, not RENT it. Just my two cents.

Nov 23, 2004, 01:17 PM	#20
knuth DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Johannesburg, South Africa Posts: 73 Rep Power: 0	Read your EULA - "this software is licensed not sold". If people didnt pirate data there would be no need for ever more stringent anti-measures. Good for Valve. If only a lot of those pirates could have that theft added to their criminal record.

Nov 23, 2004, 01:55 PM	#21
crapman777 DriverHeaven Lover Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 155 Rep Power: 0	If you have kept up with news valve did indeed release a warezed version of HL2 to catch people out. 20000 accounts disabled means a lot of money. Imagine they could potention make a cool 2 million australian dollars if those 20000 people had purchased the game, and the activation thing is a cinch if u have broadband, if you dont, why would you even have the game??? i mean singleplayer is all well and good but its the multiplayer aspect that is important. If you dont have broadband too bloody bad.

Nov 23, 2004, 02:02 PM	#23
crapman777 DriverHeaven Lover Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 155 Rep Power: 0	Magamieiko, youre an idiot, to say someone wants to pirate a game to try it out before buying it. The action is not justified. I cant steal a car just so i can try it out before i buy it... stealing is stealing as for demos, well demos dont always give a good grasp of the game, and where would you start with HalfLife2 the whole game is great, why ruin it. If you cant afford the game, too bad, blame those that do pirate games, thats partly why they are so expensive.

Nov 23, 2004, 02:12 PM	#24
lamar1234 DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 3 Rep Power: 0	Every EULA says the same thing, but every game I have purchased with the exception of HL2, does not require me to log in to a network account in order to play. Besides, there are anti-piracy measures that are coming out that do not require the installation of software that I don't want on my computer (namely Steam). Call me a greedy American individualist, but I believe in the freedom to choose, and not to have something forced on me. The newest version of SafeDisc, for example, incorporates a technology called SilentAlarm. This technology detects any alteration to the game code and causes the game to behave abnormally. For instance, a game like Doom 3 would operate normally a few times, but after that, your aim would be off, guns wouldn't fire properly, etc. The fact is, no anti-piracy measure will ever be foolproof and going to extremes like this will only serve to piss off the legitimate customers who go out and pay for the game. Pirates don't care, because they'll just find a way around it. In fact, I would not be surprised if they were off somewhere laughing their butts off over all of this. I know that some people don't find this network registration stuff to be a problem and that's fine. I just wish that Valve could have found a way to incorporate anti-piracy measures without ramming Steam down everybody's throat.

Nov 23, 2004, 02:16 PM	#25
Jitter HardwareHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 528 Rep Power: 0	I do not have a problem paying for a quality game, or a game that I am anticipating. I know some people DL every game they get, but i think alot of people DL games that they probably wouldnt be buying anyways. I believe that the way the net is now that piracy can not be stopped, and anti piracy measures only jack up the price for paying customers. I think that its a mistake to require a net connection to activate the game. I plan on getting the game w/ in a day or 2, but i am on dial up and i am kinda nervous about the whole activation thing. Also not everyone has a net connection, does that mean they shouldnt be allowed to play this game? I do not understand that type of thinking. "cinch if u have broadband, if you dont, why would you even have the game??? " First of all some people enjoy single player more than multiplayer. It just comes down to personal preference. To say that multiplayer is the only important aspect is kinda ridiculous in my opinion. I used to play Raven shield on my dial up and enjoyed it, but the single player was also fun. __________________ Sony Vaio PCV-RX670 P4 1.8ghz XP Pro SP2 1 GB PC2100 RAM ATI All in Wonder 9700 pro Audigy 2 ZS Aquamark ~29,500 3dMark03 ~ 5,000

Nov 23, 2004, 02:56 PM	#26
Vikingod Int'l Fish Liaison Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: By the light of lamp I sit and type... Posts: 16,183 Rep Power: 99	I don't see what the big issue is. If you stole your copy, you don't own it. they have the right to shut you down. I don't care for steam, but I know why they do what they do. People might as well get used to it, I think other companies are going to follow suite. It is a pain in the ass, a pain create by software pirates. I say good for them. If you don't want to pay admission, like many of us did, then you shoulding be able to watch the game. __________________ *How You Can Help DriverHeaven By Using Digg*

Nov 23, 2004, 03:00 PM	#27
crapman777 DriverHeaven Lover Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 155 Rep Power: 0	lamar1234 All protections are eventually overcome, any software can be broken down, simply because if you know how to read machine code it isnt hard to extract the contents of a file and find the protection, then remove it, protection is not really going to do much, what valve have done is essentially gone to a greater length. A video shop down the road isnt even hiring out HL2 because of the activation and they hire a lot of pc games, and what someone else said, disabling 20000 accounts creates extra bandwidth on servers. I AGREE. My pings for CS have been around 30-40 and i dont experience this sort of ping in many of my other games. If u dont like it, play something else, cause there isnt much we can do now is there?

Nov 23, 2004, 03:17 PM	#28
lamar1234 DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 3 Rep Power: 0	No, there isn't much we can do, and that's unfortunate. I'm not upset with Valve to the point of some sort of boycott and I can deal with playing HL2 through Steam, but IMHO, I think that there are better ways to deal with the piracy issue. I just think people who purchase the game legitimately should have a choice as to whether or not they want to install Steam on their computer. You can authenticate over the web without being forced to install another piece of software. Who knows? Maybe this is just a big experiment for Valve to see how it goes. They'll probably think of something totally different when HL3 comes out. Perhaps they will take user opinions into account (like the ones offered in this and other forums) and offer more choices next time. Choice and variety is always a good thing.

Nov 23, 2004, 04:05 PM	#30
tazdevl DriverHeaven Addict Join Date: May 2002 Location: Bay Area, CA Posts: 310 Rep Power: 0	Walt... good points. I don't think you'll see much in the way of price reductions because the justification of the developers is BS. Profitability is the key reason for high prices. My guess is that there's a ~3-5% piracy rate across the board, could be more could be less. If you distribute the cost of the product for that 3% (and all other associated costs) over the other 97%, doesn't result in much of a saving when you get down to it. In terms of pricing, have to disagree with you on that. While in theory, dropping prices should decrease piracy... practially it could be a death knell for tons of companies. The number of copies that would need to be sold to even break even would be phenomenal... not to mention, pricing is not an easy task and most companies don't do it right in the current market. I can see, in the low price to stop piracy market, many companies setting the price too low, not selling enough... then what do they do... increase the price in a market where everyone has priced low? Couldn't happen. __________________ RIG: P4 2.6C, Thermalright SP94/Panaflo 92MM M1A, IC7 Max3, Swifty MCX159, 1GB Geil PC4000 Ultra Plat, Modded Radeon 8500, Audigy 2, 2X WD Raptor RAID 0, WD 250GB SE, Plex 708A, 166SDVD, LianLi PC75, WinXP Pro SP1, Z680's. Last edited by tazdevl; Nov 23, 2004 at 04:36 PM.