Suprnova & LokiTorrent : Updates

No_Style · Dec 30, 2004, 11:02 PM

This evening, Suprnova administrator Sloncek made an announcement that the Suprnova team and an un-known partner have created a p2p based bit-torrent distribution system called eXeem. Sloncek said that the company backing the project would remain anonymous for the present time. The announcement was made on Novastream, a radio station loosely affiliated to Suprnova.

He described eXeem as a file sharing program – “Kazaa and bit-torrent altogether”. eXeem uses a modified version of the bit-torrent protocol. The program is still in beta testing, and will be available for public beta in the coming weeks. The program will be separate from Suprnova on eXeem.com (not currently online). Sloncek conceded that eXeem, although offered for free, will come with some adverts to help pay development costs.

eXeem will allow users to rate and add comments to files. This system is an attempt to pre-empt the system being flooded with poor quality/fake files, something that plagues tradition p2p networks like Kazaa. He said that users would be able to tell if files were of poor quality or fakes, and consequentially be able to weed out poor torrents from the system. He announced there were no current plans for the suprnova.org website. Interestingly, the administrator failed to comment on the use of the network for pirated and illegal software, and made no comment as to how, if at all, the system would prevent users from sharing pirated software and media. The interview is available for download via bit torrent here.

In other news, bit-torrent hub LokiTorrent has announced that it will not bow to MPAA / Legal pressure to close. The MPAA launched a series of legal actions against 'Jon Doe' defendants running bit-torrent hubs before Christmas. The theory goes that in shutting down the centres of piracy (the hubs) it cuts out the ability for users to easily access pirated material. Although clear statistics are not known, the furore and size of donations made to LokiTorrent would suggest that removing the hubs has done serious damage to piracy.

LokiTorrent has launched a p2p-defence fund to help in a future case against MPAA lawyers; they've currently raised an incredible ~$17,000 out of a targeted $30,000. For more information on their activities, click 'read more' for a short interview with one of the LokiTorrent administrators. We asked him about his plans, why he was doing what he was doing, and what he thought about piracy.

Somewhat ironically, the success of either of the sites will signal the failure of the other due to the structural differences between the two. If LokiTorrent eventually loses or bows to legal pressure, it will signal the end of website based, bit-torrent hosting hubs. It will also signify perhaps the first success true the MPAA has had in years against a specific type of online piracy. However, it might be more of a pyrrhic victory for the media industry; the shift to a de-centralised system for torrent files could prove impossible for the MPAA to successfully shut-down.

Discuss in DH Forums, please. No linking for eXeem as of yet as well, since it's not officially out yet.

Check out the additional source for screenshots of eXeem.
_______________
Read More/Source: NeoWin
Additional Source: Nikush

No_Style · Dec 30, 2004, 11:09 PM

This has to be by far the biggest P2P saving effort I've seen. When Kazaa was shot down, people sighed and moved on. Now people are donating and rallying together to further improve p2p. I look forward to eXeem and its promise of a decentralized file sharing method.

Warpy · Dec 30, 2004, 11:15 PM

This looks very promising... something I shall be looking forward too, with my home bandwidth muncher -- 12mbit cable

I wonder how they can validate the screenshots from the links you provided, since they contain "warez" files in the menu.

I guess they just provide the service and the sharing is up to the "user".

No_Style · Dec 30, 2004, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warpy

This looks very promising... something I shall be looking forward too, with my home bandwidth muncher -- 12mbit cable

I wonder how they can validate the screenshots from the links you provided, since they contain "warez" files in the menu.

I guess they just provide the service and the sharing is up to the "user".

Haha, I noticed it too, but I can only reply with this from the Lowkee interview from NeoWin.

Quote:

Do you think that piracy is acceptable?

Piracy is a byproduct of peer sharing. When peer-to-peer software is being written, there aren't 10 developers wringing their hands together over how much software and music people can steal from those who make a living selling it. Peer sharing is used to allow people who don't have the financial funding of the MPAA and RIAA to share there works, for free, to a worldwide audience without the massive costs of bandwidth punishing them for being popular.

Warpy · Dec 30, 2004, 11:31 PM

Ummmm interesting, well I guess they have validated that nicely.

PoopyTheJ · Dec 30, 2004, 11:56 PM

However, it might be more of a pyrrhic victory for the media industry; the shift to a de-centralised system for torrent files could prove impossible for the MPAA to successfully shut-down.

Bit-torrent already has that capability with Bit comet I know it's enabled....

ivan300 · Dec 31, 2004, 12:31 AM

I have been beta testing Exeem for a while now, It is really promesing.. I only hope that it doesnt go the same road that kazaa did(fake files viruses etc) the rating system should be able to prevent that

Warpy · Dec 31, 2004, 03:04 AM

I get great satisfaction knowing that the RIAA and MPAA will find it difficult to sue school kids, Hahahaaa!

MindlessOath · Dec 31, 2004, 03:30 AM

with bit torrent it was still able to find out what files were being shared and often mpaa and riaa (or whatever) would send letters to the ISP and or the users who have downloaded those files.

so as long as your not downloading content that you shouldnt be downloading it will be fine.

will this new technology include encription to defect against that? i dont know, but it shouldnt have to, file sharing shouldnt be illiegal and it shouldnt have to be protected cause people shouldnt be doing that stuff, and if so, you have a right to be taken to court or whatever.

their are also other ways of sharing files, one of my favorite ways is chatting with buddies on the IRC, and of course the web in general, its just that applications such as this make things way overblown and causes bad people to take advantage of things (and sometimes people who are not bad but just dont know).... seeing that these applications are extreamly easy to use and faster in some cases than say logging into an ftp and sharing pictures of my friends vacation, or whatever. i dunno.

but as long as we all have an ip address were not really safe, so keep that in mind. i think "waste" actually did encript what you were doing, and also made it so you could only share with friends, it did not gain a wide introduction because it was hard to use to pirate stuff, meaning it was a great tool that was hard to take advantage too, and what exeem does is make things way easier and it will be taken advantage of, and the compaines who dont like this will likly find somehow to take them down.

hrm... i think im just rambleing here, it might not make sence, dont worry

Xii · Dec 31, 2004, 03:40 AM

CmdrTaco wrote

Quote:

After the demise of Suprnova, hype has risen over Exeem, the supposed heir apparent to the popular BitTorrent index. Today on Novastream, Sloncek announced it officially, but to me his announcement raised more questions than it did answers. Since the official exeem.com website still isn't up, I've got a few notes below. Thanks to several users on irc.suprnova.org, and Sloncek himself for answering my questions.

First, Exeem really isn't an extension of Suprnova as the hype might have you believe: the connection between the two seems more marketing than anything else. Sloncek has been hired to promote their product as the heir apparent to his popular website, but his involvement really seems to be almost entirely PR. It'll work obviously: my headline on this story mentions Suprnova, and so will hundreds of websites around the world in the coming days. "Yet another p2p app" would not create anywhere near the waves that "Successor to Suprnova Announced" will. I hope that people judge exeem by its own merits and not by its (clever) marketing.

Second, Exeem is pretty much what was rumored earlier: a blending of the tracker, the BitTorrent client, and decentralized indexing. It's Windows only. It's in beta now, and will be out at some indeterminate date in the future. It also has a rating and commenting system which appears to be somewhat rudimentary. It's unclear to me if the rating system will be as useless as other attempts, and I think this is the critical thing: Suprnova succeeded because the content available on it was verified and trustworthy. Suprnova was as much the work of a few dozen editors as it was a list of torrent URLs. So far no other p2p system has achieved that level of accuracy. Exeem supports magnet sites which is a start, but not exactly p2p either. And did I mention that it's adware?

Third, there's a mystery company. Someone is paying Sloncek. He won't say who, but there's a history in the p2p world of secretive development. Since Exeem is to be adware, someday it will have a billing address, which means the legal issues faced by predecessors like Napster and Kazaa will be forthcoming, which is of course why we have a mystery company that Sloncek won't talk about in the first place. We definitely haven't heard the last of this.

Personally I was hoping for more: source code and cross platform compatibility never hurts. These are the things that made BitTorrent a huge success. I guess I was hoping for a new protocol instead of just another Kazaa. I guess I was hoping for a monumental leap, and instead Exeem to be a more incremental step. I'm sure we'll learn more in the coming weeks.

http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=0...2311234&tid=95

MindlessOath · Dec 31, 2004, 05:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xii

CmdrTaco wrote
http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=0...2311234&tid=95

i would like to say this.... when i heard the downloaded interview i to am suspissious.

first things first, it doesnt cost money to develop and code this stuff... hell this kind of stuff usually is coded by people like myself or hackers or whoever. i remember napster being created by a college student, gnuttella crated by none other than the master himself

i will let someone else name mr finkle too, and of course other types of file clients. they were made without money in mind.

then the inclussion of advertisements or adware. this is definatly not something i want to be apart of in some respects, it looks like someone is just trying to make money on this.... when that really shouldnt be happening. sure its a good thing to share files with a loop hole in the system, but im not so sure its a good thing.

however with that in mind, ANYONE can create something simular to this for free without constraints, and their are many people who could do this, no huge compainy is needed.

this could be the creators of kazaa doing this who knows.

pr0digal jenius · Dec 31, 2004, 06:16 AM

i'd want money for it too at the rate the lawsuits are flying around now adays

Dom · Dec 31, 2004, 06:21 AM

Sounds cool.

No_Style · Dec 31, 2004, 06:34 AM

It's true that exeem isn't the first to implement decentralized BT, but it will make it more popular and other clients will update as well. I'm just pleased to hear that the move forward for BT is in effect.

MindlessOath · Dec 31, 2004, 07:27 AM

u know i have found only ONE client that doesnt take up resources on my computer to holly hell. all the ones based on the original code lag my computer to death. i think it was python based.

i found one client that didnt lag, well they all took up so much CPU when varifiying a file (ie if u stoped a download and resumed it later it has to verify those bits - it takes up mass amount of CPU).... Azureus is its name, its a java based client, not bad, but it was sad to see the performance of all these other clients, not sure if anyone else actually had the same effect as i have with clients.

kazzaa lagged too, especially with mutliple downloads of anything

i sure hope this client exeem is not anything like either one when it comes to performance, it seems from what the guy mentioned that it wont take up much memory, but thats just advertising, who knows. it does say its made from C++ so thats a good thing, i havent seen a C based client yet. (if their was the main protical was still python code and the gui was C based).

ivan300 · Dec 31, 2004, 08:07 AM

ok I am downloading 6 things right now and exeem is using 10 megs of ram. Not too bad eh?

Spyro124 · Dec 31, 2004, 12:48 PM

Pff people donating cash to warez suppliers or at least sites hosting links to it, where is this world going to

Donating to sites like that is like paying for warez and thats just not done, if you are planning on paying then give the rightfull owners the money or donate it to something usefull like the tsunami disaster.

Warez is supposed to be free and ofcourse illegal, but you take that risk, so it should stay free, if something gets busted you move on it's easy as that.

tek · Dec 31, 2004, 03:21 PM

Yeah thats the way Suprnova and Loki!

MPAA can BLOW ME

MindlessOath · Dec 31, 2004, 08:00 PM

actually the site that was getting donations wasnt really a supporter of warez at all, the way i hear it. so i would probably research that before i said anything like you have said above. im just saying, i havent really any real clue, but from the interview and text that i have read, he is fighting for the right of speach, and that his links were not warez orianted, or something of the sorts like that.... i forget somewhere it shows his explination in an interview somewhere.

ivan300 · Jan 1, 2005, 04:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MindlessOath

actually the site that was getting donations wasnt really a supporter of warez at all, the way i hear it. so i would probably research that before i said anything like you have said above. im just saying, i havent really any real clue, but from the interview and text that i have read, he is fighting for the right of speach, and that his links were not warez orianted, or something of the sorts like that.... i forget somewhere it shows his explination in an interview somewhere.

Loki torrents is one of the biggest sites that is still hosting torrents

MindlessOath · Jan 1, 2005, 08:22 PM

i dunno, its just what i heard in some interview... mabe he was just argueing that its free speach, and he can display whatever he wants, and that theirs no real content thats on his site, and thats fredom of speach.

digitalwanderer · Jan 2, 2005, 12:17 AM

Exeem is adware and a bad joke/great PR move, it has nothing whatsoever to do with Suprnova or even bit torrents 'cept it is a file-sharing application.

I was excited when I first heard, but then enraged after I read CmdrTaco's addendum....the whole thing is a scam.

Dec 30, 2004, 11:02 PM	#1
No_Style Styleless Wonder Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ottawa, Ontario Posts: 6,034 Rep Power: 0	Suprnova & LokiTorrent : Updates This evening, Suprnova administrator Sloncek made an announcement that the Suprnova team and an un-known partner have created a p2p based bit-torrent distribution system called eXeem. Sloncek said that the company backing the project would remain anonymous for the present time. The announcement was made on Novastream, a radio station loosely affiliated to Suprnova. He described eXeem as a file sharing program – “Kazaa and bit-torrent altogether”. eXeem uses a modified version of the bit-torrent protocol. The program is still in beta testing, and will be available for public beta in the coming weeks. The program will be separate from Suprnova on eXeem.com (not currently online). Sloncek conceded that eXeem, although offered for free, will come with some adverts to help pay development costs. eXeem will allow users to rate and add comments to files. This system is an attempt to pre-empt the system being flooded with poor quality/fake files, something that plagues tradition p2p networks like Kazaa. He said that users would be able to tell if files were of poor quality or fakes, and consequentially be able to weed out poor torrents from the system. He announced there were no current plans for the suprnova.org website. Interestingly, the administrator failed to comment on the use of the network for pirated and illegal software, and made no comment as to how, if at all, the system would prevent users from sharing pirated software and media. The interview is available for download via bit torrent here. In other news, bit-torrent hub LokiTorrent has announced that it will not bow to MPAA / Legal pressure to close. The MPAA launched a series of legal actions against 'Jon Doe' defendants running bit-torrent hubs before Christmas. The theory goes that in shutting down the centres of piracy (the hubs) it cuts out the ability for users to easily access pirated material. Although clear statistics are not known, the furore and size of donations made to LokiTorrent would suggest that removing the hubs has done serious damage to piracy. LokiTorrent has launched a p2p-defence fund to help in a future case against MPAA lawyers; they've currently raised an incredible ~$17,000 out of a targeted $30,000. For more information on their activities, click 'read more' for a short interview with one of the LokiTorrent administrators. We asked him about his plans, why he was doing what he was doing, and what he thought about piracy. Somewhat ironically, the success of either of the sites will signal the failure of the other due to the structural differences between the two. If LokiTorrent eventually loses or bows to legal pressure, it will signal the end of website based, bit-torrent hosting hubs. It will also signify perhaps the first success true the MPAA has had in years against a specific type of online piracy. However, it might be more of a pyrrhic victory for the media industry; the shift to a de-centralised system for torrent files could prove impossible for the MPAA to successfully shut-down. Discuss in DH Forums, please. No linking for eXeem as of yet as well, since it's not officially out yet. Check out the additional source for screenshots of eXeem. _______________ Read More/Source: NeoWin Additional Source: Nikush __________________ "The Best Style Is No Style" Specifications Here Last edited by No_Style; Dec 30, 2004 at 11:08 PM.

Dec 30, 2004, 11:09 PM	Thread Starter #2
No_Style Styleless Wonder Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ottawa, Ontario Posts: 6,034 Rep Power: 0	This has to be by far the biggest P2P saving effort I've seen. When Kazaa was shot down, people sighed and moved on. Now people are donating and rallying together to further improve p2p. I look forward to eXeem and its promise of a decentralized file sharing method. __________________ "The Best Style Is No Style" Specifications Here

Dec 30, 2004, 11:15 PM	#3
Warpy DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: USA Posts: 2,761 Rep Power: 0	This looks very promising... something I shall be looking forward too, with my home bandwidth muncher -- 12mbit cable I wonder how they can validate the screenshots from the links you provided, since they contain "warez" files in the menu. I guess they just provide the service and the sharing is up to the "user". __________________ The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, "I'm from the government and I'm here to help."

Dec 30, 2004, 11:31 PM	#5
Warpy DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: USA Posts: 2,761 Rep Power: 0	Ummmm interesting, well I guess they have validated that nicely. __________________ The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, "I'm from the government and I'm here to help."

Dec 30, 2004, 11:56 PM	#6
PoopyTheJ DriverHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,588 Rep Power: 66	However, it might be more of a pyrrhic victory for the media industry; the shift to a de-centralised system for torrent files could prove impossible for the MPAA to successfully shut-down. Bit-torrent already has that capability with Bit comet I know it's enabled.... __________________ [COLOR=Blue]“Alright boys, let’s start her up and see why she doesn’t work.” - John Fritz "I aim to misbehave" Malcolm Reynolds ATI Catalyst Beta Tester[/COLOR]

Dec 31, 2004, 12:31 AM	#7
ivan300 Booooo Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Vancouver Bc Posts: 236 Rep Power: 0	I have been beta testing Exeem for a while now, It is really promesing.. I only hope that it doesnt go the same road that kazaa did(fake files viruses etc) the rating system should be able to prevent that

Dec 31, 2004, 03:04 AM	#8
Warpy DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: USA Posts: 2,761 Rep Power: 0	I get great satisfaction knowing that the RIAA and MPAA will find it difficult to sue school kids, Hahahaaa! __________________ The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, "I'm from the government and I'm here to help."

Dec 31, 2004, 03:30 AM	#9
MindlessOath DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 1,121 Rep Power: 0	with bit torrent it was still able to find out what files were being shared and often mpaa and riaa (or whatever) would send letters to the ISP and or the users who have downloaded those files. so as long as your not downloading content that you shouldnt be downloading it will be fine. will this new technology include encription to defect against that? i dont know, but it shouldnt have to, file sharing shouldnt be illiegal and it shouldnt have to be protected cause people shouldnt be doing that stuff, and if so, you have a right to be taken to court or whatever. their are also other ways of sharing files, one of my favorite ways is chatting with buddies on the IRC, and of course the web in general, its just that applications such as this make things way overblown and causes bad people to take advantage of things (and sometimes people who are not bad but just dont know).... seeing that these applications are extreamly easy to use and faster in some cases than say logging into an ftp and sharing pictures of my friends vacation, or whatever. i dunno. but as long as we all have an ip address were not really safe, so keep that in mind. i think "waste" actually did encript what you were doing, and also made it so you could only share with friends, it did not gain a wide introduction because it was hard to use to pirate stuff, meaning it was a great tool that was hard to take advantage too, and what exeem does is make things way easier and it will be taken advantage of, and the compaines who dont like this will likly find somehow to take them down. hrm... i think im just rambleing here, it might not make sence, dont worry __________________ ATI Radeon X800XT PE <---- LOOK UPDATED!! AMD Athlon 2Ghz, nforce2, 512mb ddr3500 LINKS U SHOULD KNOW!!!! DriverCleaner - use every time u install new drivers! ATI driver feedback - to report driver problems Tacticalcenter - my Gaming website and forums ATI 3rd party Optimized Driver Compairison

Dec 31, 2004, 06:16 AM	#12
pr0digal jenius Delete Me Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 14,648 Rep Power: 0	i'd want money for it too at the rate the lawsuits are flying around now adays

Dec 31, 2004, 06:21 AM	#13
Dom DriverHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 12,940 Rep Power: 0	Sounds cool.

Dec 31, 2004, 06:34 AM	Thread Starter #14
No_Style Styleless Wonder Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ottawa, Ontario Posts: 6,034 Rep Power: 0	It's true that exeem isn't the first to implement decentralized BT, but it will make it more popular and other clients will update as well. I'm just pleased to hear that the move forward for BT is in effect. __________________ "The Best Style Is No Style" Specifications Here

Dec 31, 2004, 07:27 AM	#15
MindlessOath DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 1,121 Rep Power: 0	u know i have found only ONE client that doesnt take up resources on my computer to holly hell. all the ones based on the original code lag my computer to death. i think it was python based. i found one client that didnt lag, well they all took up so much CPU when varifiying a file (ie if u stoped a download and resumed it later it has to verify those bits - it takes up mass amount of CPU).... Azureus is its name, its a java based client, not bad, but it was sad to see the performance of all these other clients, not sure if anyone else actually had the same effect as i have with clients. kazzaa lagged too, especially with mutliple downloads of anything i sure hope this client exeem is not anything like either one when it comes to performance, it seems from what the guy mentioned that it wont take up much memory, but thats just advertising, who knows. it does say its made from C++ so thats a good thing, i havent seen a C based client yet. (if their was the main protical was still python code and the gui was C based). __________________ ATI Radeon X800XT PE <---- LOOK UPDATED!! AMD Athlon 2Ghz, nforce2, 512mb ddr3500 LINKS U SHOULD KNOW!!!! DriverCleaner - use every time u install new drivers! ATI driver feedback - to report driver problems Tacticalcenter - my Gaming website and forums ATI 3rd party Optimized Driver Compairison

Dec 31, 2004, 08:07 AM	#16
ivan300 Booooo Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Vancouver Bc Posts: 236 Rep Power: 0	ok I am downloading 6 things right now and exeem is using 10 megs of ram. Not too bad eh?

Dec 31, 2004, 12:48 PM	#17
Spyro124 DriverHeaven Lover Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Netherlands Posts: 120 Rep Power: 0	Pff people donating cash to warez suppliers or at least sites hosting links to it, where is this world going to Donating to sites like that is like paying for warez and thats just not done, if you are planning on paying then give the rightfull owners the money or donate it to something usefull like the tsunami disaster. Warez is supposed to be free and ofcourse illegal, but you take that risk, so it should stay free, if something gets busted you move on it's easy as that. __________________ My Computer stats: AMD64 3200+ Asus A8V Deluxe PNY 6800 GT 2x 512MB Kingston Value Ram pc3200 1x 60GB WD and 1x 74 Gig WD Raptor Dell 1704FP TFT

Dec 31, 2004, 03:21 PM	#18
tek DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: Boston, US Posts: 2,103 Rep Power: 0	Yeah thats the way Suprnova and Loki! MPAA can BLOW ME __________________ [COLOR=White][/COLOR]

Dec 31, 2004, 08:00 PM	#19
MindlessOath DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 1,121 Rep Power: 0	actually the site that was getting donations wasnt really a supporter of warez at all, the way i hear it. so i would probably research that before i said anything like you have said above. im just saying, i havent really any real clue, but from the interview and text that i have read, he is fighting for the right of speach, and that his links were not warez orianted, or something of the sorts like that.... i forget somewhere it shows his explination in an interview somewhere. __________________ ATI Radeon X800XT PE <---- LOOK UPDATED!! AMD Athlon 2Ghz, nforce2, 512mb ddr3500 LINKS U SHOULD KNOW!!!! DriverCleaner - use every time u install new drivers! ATI driver feedback - to report driver problems Tacticalcenter - my Gaming website and forums ATI 3rd party Optimized Driver Compairison

Jan 1, 2005, 08:22 PM	#21
MindlessOath DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 1,121 Rep Power: 0	i dunno, its just what i heard in some interview... mabe he was just argueing that its free speach, and he can display whatever he wants, and that theirs no real content thats on his site, and thats fredom of speach. __________________ ATI Radeon X800XT PE <---- LOOK UPDATED!! AMD Athlon 2Ghz, nforce2, 512mb ddr3500 LINKS U SHOULD KNOW!!!! DriverCleaner - use every time u install new drivers! ATI driver feedback - to report driver problems Tacticalcenter - my Gaming website and forums ATI 3rd party Optimized Driver Compairison

Jan 2, 2005, 12:17 AM	#22
digitalwanderer Colour Commentator Join Date: May 2002 Location: Highland, IN USA Posts: 5,619 Rep Power: 0	Exeem is adware and a bad joke/great PR move, it has nothing whatsoever to do with Suprnova or even bit torrents 'cept it is a file-sharing application. I was excited when I first heard, but then enraged after I read CmdrTaco's addendum....the whole thing is a scam. __________________ WTF is up with the sigs?