The 'Dirty Little Secret' About Longhorn

Iria · May 27, 2005, 02:22 AM

Developers say there's a dirty little secret about Longhorn that few Softies are discussing publicly: Longhorn won't be based on the .Net Framework.

We're still expecting that the .Net Framework will ship with Longhorn – on the CD and/or "in the box" in some way. But the .Net Framework won't be at Longhorn's core, we hear.

__________
Read More / Source: Microsoft Watch

ChrisW · May 27, 2005, 03:32 AM

Let's hope this turns out to be the case. It would be better if you didn't have to have .Net installed at all.

LuCifer · May 27, 2005, 03:37 AM

Quote:

It would be better if you didn't have to have .Net installed at all.

Sorry for Noob Question But...
Whats .Net? Like windows Explorer or something?
and Why would it be better if it didnt come with it?

ChrisW · May 27, 2005, 05:31 AM

Check Windows Update and you will see it (if it's not already installed). It's designed to make it easier to write new applications by automatically doing things like managing resources and security. Unfortunately, it comes at a price...a large performance hit, not to mention it eats up resources. The reason why I say it would be better if you never had to install it is the current version adds about 1-2 minutes to my bootup time.

YAYitsAndrew · May 27, 2005, 05:41 AM

I have the .net 2.0 beta 2 installed and it's pretty sexy. If you see anyone complaining about .net after 2.0 then they're being stubborn.

I've hated VS for years and I'm using it now, lots of nice new features.

nForcer · May 27, 2005, 06:43 AM

and I'll second that.

LuCifer · May 27, 2005, 06:52 AM

Oh Ok. Now I understand.
Thanks.

BWX · May 27, 2005, 08:24 AM

.net not in the next windows? Man, what will ATI do then? make you install it to use the CCC? God I hope not.

mkk · May 27, 2005, 09:58 AM

Good news. No more rumors about .NET becoming mandatory I hope.

CDsDontBurn · May 27, 2005, 10:07 AM

so basically, if you install .net you gain patch up security features in windows, but take a hit in performance???? hmmmm......that's a toughy one.

Demigod · May 27, 2005, 12:39 PM

.net was never meant to be the core of windows. It cant be its a higher level language than c and it would be far to slow to make the base os run on it. Having it sit ontop of that layer is fine but just like current windows .net could never be the only way to interface with the kernal. Its to slow. Drivers in .net? never going to happen, the contol panels yes, but the drivers not a chance.

The higher spec for longhorn not oly covers the extra services they want to pack in (but are droping day by day to meet release) but because the main interface layer is .net based. Which despite making life easier for lazy programmers it is, like java, a bloated under performing language.

Having said that there is nothing stoping a normal c or c++ app running fine on longhorn as I have been trying to tell people since ati launched ther cc

No_Style · May 27, 2005, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YAYitsAndrew

I have the .net 2.0 beta 2 installed and it's pretty sexy. If you see anyone complaining about .net after 2.0 then they're being stubborn.

I've hated VS for years and I'm using it now, lots of nice new features.

I concur.

YAYitsAndrew · May 27, 2005, 12:49 PM

The problem is developing in c++ is like driving spikes under your toenails. There's something to be said for a c# app that gives you all the better implemented object orientedness of java with a microsoft backing. We use C# to develop servers that a flash frontend is going to connect to (many at once) and wouldn't change that for the world.

More and more CS majors at my school are becoming something other than the rabid-c++ user. We're at the point where you can get away with a performance hit because machines are so fast. I don't foresee c++ going anywhere in the next decade, but it's going to start sharing the spotlight more. The right language for the right job.

pr0digal jenius · May 27, 2005, 02:25 PM

.Net is what Microsoft did after Sun kicked them out of their sandbox with the Java/J++ lawsuits.

I personally like java much better, but that's just me.

BWX · May 27, 2005, 03:17 PM

I'd rather see the CCC in java any day- it is still sluggish as hell as it is.

pr0digal jenius · May 27, 2005, 05:00 PM

yea...java's a bit faster for the most part, and is also cross platform...so ATi's mac and linux stuff could share the joy

YAYitsAndrew · May 27, 2005, 05:05 PM

Java would be nice if it could actually make applications that looked native and have them seamlessly run on the OS (without the need for confusing jars or web launches). It also needs a real nice UI RAD tool.

It beats the pants off c++ for homework, though. And those are the only two viable choices in most classes.

ChrisW · May 27, 2005, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CDsDontBurn

so basically, if you install .net you gain patch up security features in windows, but take a hit in performance???? hmmmm......that's a toughy one.

No. It's just the .Net framework takes care of the security for you allowing you, as a developer, to cut corners.

I'm sorry, but .Net may make the developer's life easier, but it does it at the expense of the end user. Forcing the software to run slower on the end user's computer and generally making their life a little harder just so you can cut corners doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Seems to me that developers are getting screwed up priorities. The goal should be to make the end user's life easier, not the developer's.

BWX · May 27, 2005, 09:47 PM

Amen brutha!

May 27, 2005, 02:22 AM	#1
Iria DriverHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 7,275 Rep Power: 89	The 'Dirty Little Secret' About Longhorn Developers say there's a dirty little secret about Longhorn that few Softies are discussing publicly: Longhorn won't be based on the .Net Framework. We're still expecting that the .Net Framework will ship with Longhorn – on the CD and/or "in the box" in some way. But the .Net Framework won't be at Longhorn's core, we hear. __________ Read More / Source: Microsoft Watch

May 27, 2005, 05:41 AM	#5
YAYitsAndrew Anti-Piracy Poster Boy Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: NJ Posts: 2,605 Rep Power: 79 System Specs	I have the .net 2.0 beta 2 installed and it's pretty sexy. If you see anyone complaining about .net after 2.0 then they're being stubborn. I've hated VS for years and I'm using it now, lots of nice new features. __________________ "It is because the resistance to paying for copyrighted material, although often characterized as arising from a supposed technical burden or principled concern for the public interest, arises rather from exactly the same segment of the brain that is dominant in shoplifters." - Mark Helprin, Digital Barbarism In other words, it's never okay to steal even if you think you have a good reason! www.yayitsandrew.com

May 27, 2005, 06:52 AM	#7
LuCifer DH sig maker! Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Fontucky Posts: 1,158 Rep Power: 0	Oh Ok. Now I understand. Thanks. __________________

May 27, 2005, 08:24 AM	#8
BWX unplugged Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: USNY Posts: 19,669 Rep Power: 110 System Specs	.net not in the next windows? Man, what will ATI do then? make you install it to use the CCC? God I hope not. __________________

May 27, 2005, 10:07 AM	#10
CDsDontBurn Lurking DriverHeaven Join Date: May 2003 Location: Southern California Posts: 22,804 Rep Power: 235 System Specs	so basically, if you install .net you gain patch up security features in windows, but take a hit in performance???? hmmmm......that's a toughy one. __________________ Her First Day \| A year later

May 27, 2005, 03:32 AM	#2
ChrisW DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 332 Rep Power: 0	Let's hope this turns out to be the case. It would be better if you didn't have to have .Net installed at all.

May 27, 2005, 05:31 AM	#4
ChrisW DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 332 Rep Power: 0	Check Windows Update and you will see it (if it's not already installed). It's designed to make it easier to write new applications by automatically doing things like managing resources and security. Unfortunately, it comes at a price...a large performance hit, not to mention it eats up resources. The reason why I say it would be better if you never had to install it is the current version adds about 1-2 minutes to my bootup time.

May 27, 2005, 06:43 AM	#6
nForcer Twice the fun! Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,404 Rep Power: 0	and I'll second that.

May 27, 2005, 09:58 AM	#9
mkk Cthulhu/Dagon 2012 Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Gefle, Sweden Posts: 4,495 Rep Power: 132 System Specs	Good news. No more rumors about .NET becoming mandatory I hope.

May 27, 2005, 12:39 PM	#11
Demigod DriverHeaven Lover Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 102 Rep Power: 0	.net was never meant to be the core of windows. It cant be its a higher level language than c and it would be far to slow to make the base os run on it. Having it sit ontop of that layer is fine but just like current windows .net could never be the only way to interface with the kernal. Its to slow. Drivers in .net? never going to happen, the contol panels yes, but the drivers not a chance. The higher spec for longhorn not oly covers the extra services they want to pack in (but are droping day by day to meet release) but because the main interface layer is .net based. Which despite making life easier for lazy programmers it is, like java, a bloated under performing language. Having said that there is nothing stoping a normal c or c++ app running fine on longhorn as I have been trying to tell people since ati launched ther cc

May 27, 2005, 12:49 PM	#13
YAYitsAndrew Anti-Piracy Poster Boy Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: NJ Posts: 2,605 Rep Power: 79 System Specs	The problem is developing in c++ is like driving spikes under your toenails. There's something to be said for a c# app that gives you all the better implemented object orientedness of java with a microsoft backing. We use C# to develop servers that a flash frontend is going to connect to (many at once) and wouldn't change that for the world. More and more CS majors at my school are becoming something other than the rabid-c++ user. We're at the point where you can get away with a performance hit because machines are so fast. I don't foresee c++ going anywhere in the next decade, but it's going to start sharing the spotlight more. The right language for the right job. __________________ "It is because the resistance to paying for copyrighted material, although often characterized as arising from a supposed technical burden or principled concern for the public interest, arises rather from exactly the same segment of the brain that is dominant in shoplifters." - Mark Helprin, Digital Barbarism In other words, it's never okay to steal even if you think you have a good reason! www.yayitsandrew.com

May 27, 2005, 02:25 PM	#14
pr0digal jenius Delete Me Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 14,648 Rep Power: 0	.Net is what Microsoft did after Sun kicked them out of their sandbox with the Java/J++ lawsuits. I personally like java much better, but that's just me.

May 27, 2005, 03:17 PM	#15
BWX unplugged Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: USNY Posts: 19,669 Rep Power: 110 System Specs	I'd rather see the CCC in java any day- it is still sluggish as hell as it is. __________________

May 27, 2005, 05:00 PM	#16
pr0digal jenius Delete Me Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 14,648 Rep Power: 0	yea...java's a bit faster for the most part, and is also cross platform...so ATi's mac and linux stuff could share the joy

May 27, 2005, 05:05 PM	#17
YAYitsAndrew Anti-Piracy Poster Boy Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: NJ Posts: 2,605 Rep Power: 79 System Specs	Java would be nice if it could actually make applications that looked native and have them seamlessly run on the OS (without the need for confusing jars or web launches). It also needs a real nice UI RAD tool. It beats the pants off c++ for homework, though. And those are the only two viable choices in most classes. __________________ "It is because the resistance to paying for copyrighted material, although often characterized as arising from a supposed technical burden or principled concern for the public interest, arises rather from exactly the same segment of the brain that is dominant in shoplifters." - Mark Helprin, Digital Barbarism In other words, it's never okay to steal even if you think you have a good reason! www.yayitsandrew.com

May 27, 2005, 09:47 PM	#19
BWX unplugged Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: USNY Posts: 19,669 Rep Power: 110 System Specs	Amen brutha! __________________