Iria

Markham (ON) - Yesterday ATI opened its multi-graphics-processor platform "Crossfire" to the rest of the world by lifting its embargo for reviews. With the reviews, some readers were concerned when they learned that the X8xx series of cards could not display images past a 1600 x 1200 pixel resolution at a refresh rate of 60 Hz. But ATI promises to remove that limitation with its next-generation graphic chip.

This may be true of the current cards but this will not be the way of the future. In discussions with ATI regarding this drawback to the X8xx Crossfire Edition cards they stressed that they could have made the maximum resolution and refresh rates higher but chose not to in order to support current customers.

ATI stated that in order to "support higher resolutions than 16x12 we would have to add to the cost of the slave cards, and abandon our customers that have already bought Radeon X8xx hardware." When confronted with alienating customers, ATI officials said that Crossfire was intended as a solution that "balances everything" from the feature set, component support, application support, and performance.

We took the opportunity to ask ATI about the reason for implimenting the DVI connecton instead of an internal hardware link like the nVidia product. The company stated that an internal connection would also have alienated existing X8xx series customers. If the new cards had such a link, then the existing cards would not have a way to interface with the new cards. Going forward, ATI felt that a DVI connection was the "best solution for all existing and future card owners."

As it stands, Crossfire will continue to support up to a 1600x1200 resolution at 60Hz with the current hardware. However, the company said that future cards, including the X1800 (R520), X1600 (R530), and the X1300 (R515) will not be limited to this maximum. According to ATI, this current maximum is necessary to support as many current customers as possible and that the dongle (external cable) would not be replaced any time soon.
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Source: Tom's Hardware Guide

Zardon

The_Neon_Cowboy

Well to match up with the chips already on existing boards.
They way you can use you existing card + buying and using
the crossfire master card. (60htz limitation)

Vs

If they had done it differently (No 60htz limitation) different chips .
You would have to buy a NEW slave card and NEW master card.
You wouldn’t be able to use any existing cards in crossfire.


So what it seem they are saying that other wise you would need to buy
2 new cards for use in crossfire and older ones would not work. Vs
The way where you can use your existing card... So it was done for reason
of compatibility of the current cards.

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Zardon

Thanks for the education on the ATI hardware Mike I wasnt aware of that /sarcasm off.

It is a confusing press release IMO and badly worded, they needed to clarify that future hardware wont have the hardware limitation rather than sounding as if gamers today dont need 1600 or higher resolution...

WxChaser

ATI has said their upcoming products already mentioned above will be using dual link TDMS receivers instead of the single link version just released - mitigating the problem with resolution limits.

Zardon

Id actually love some statistics on how many people have been put off the hardware solely due to this current resolution/refresh specific limitation.

WxChaser

Quite a few I imagine. I like the highest resolutions I can game at, or do renders, etc.

The_Neon_Cowboy

Well used the confused smileyand quoted wha you did. I thought you
where questioning Why they did that. my bad

I agree it's badly worded but what they needed to say is berried in there
They could have got away with a quick few lines and been alot clearer.

Also I think alot more people use lesser resoultions then the higher ones.
Might make a good poll to see what peopke are running at. If memory
serves that last pollings I've saw lower reses 1024X768 & 1280x1024
was the most commonly used. I don't use the high ones myself if anything
I use some AA/AF. As opposed to uping the screen resoultion.

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BWX

It happened because crossfire was an after-thought, at least after the development of the x800 series began. If not there is no excuse for such a huge blunder.. It almost seems like it was a "last minute thing" developed to keep up with the competition, like they got blind-sided by SLI.

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BWX

Yeah, but if people drop 1000 dollars on video cards, they will want to run at 1600 x 1200.. it isn't what they run now, but what they will want to run after dropping a huge load of cash on video cards. I still am in shock about the whole thing (as much shock as I get about tech news), it seems like it just can't be true.


EDIT

Don't get me wrong, I am still a fan of ATI as a company and as a gfx card maker, it doesn't affect me because I cannot afford this stuff right now anyway, I just think this is a big mistake.

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pr0digal jenius

I personally, would rather use a iMac @ 85 Hz, then a crossfire behemoth @ 60

The_Neon_Cowboy

Incorrect you mean $500 or less assuming they already have a
Crossfire supported X series like X800 or X850. If they are buying
two new cards the X1xxx series will be there and will not be limited.
They will be able to use the higher resolutions and refresh so I don’t
see the problem.

Would you rather they have made you buy a special crossfire master card
and a special slave card? Meaning that all that cards out now and 100% of
what’s in stock at stores and warehouses everywhere would be completely
unusable in crossfire. They obviously can’t go back in time an modify the
existing cards or crying over spilt milk. What was done is done. It appears
to be combatable they needed them configured the way they have done and
that ended up giving them this limitation.

If it not really a limitation and something they just over looked then yea
they should be chastised. But far as we know and how this is being sold.
as being done for compatibly purposes. which makes since…

My system and monitor is capable of 1600X1200 and with crossfire
I would still use the very same resolutions (1024x768/1280x1024) I would
simply crank they game settings all that way up as I already do. But then I
could also turn up the AA/AF to a massive amount and know I’ll have great
graphics and a more then acceptable frame rate. If I wanted the higher reses
and refresh I would be sure buy two X1xxx series wouldn’t I?

Would rather of they just made you X1xxx series, and later to be the only
ones that can use crossfire? Surely not...People would be whipping out the
torches and pitch forks.

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Sandok

Many I'm sure... It does seem very bad on paper (though in reality it's fine) but still... Quite saddening to hear

I wouldn't mind crossfire, just need money

swimtech

I think there is one main reason, with several building blocks for that reason, as to why folks are 'put off' by Crossfire (and SLI for that matter). I mean, it's great the technology is there, but it will probably only be used by a very small (my guess is less than 5%) percentage of users who actually buy a video card for their computer - maybe a little higher for pre-built configs though. Why?

The performance just isn't there for the money. The implementation today is for the very high end - where price/performance is not a high consideration. Price/performance will probably never be a prime selling point of the technology - but that is what most folks look for. Two boards should always cost more than one, and single boards do some pretty amazing work today - even more in a month or so...

The image quality is awesome with the additional AA capability, but other than that the feature set versus a single card is the same - or worse at present. Those that actually buy and install their own card(s) also know that there will be configuration issues - rare though they may be - to deal with. There is the dual display limitation. Also, since most folks really don't game at higher than 1024x768 or 1280x1024 (because their monitor is native at that res - most LCD screens - or looks best with decent refresh (CRT) at that res anyway) they will, as Neon said, crank up the eye candy and be wowed anyway - with a single card that costs $250-300. Most folks just don't want to spend the 500+ (at an absolute minimum) for the two cards that, for them, gives them little in the way of image quality or perceivable speed improvement.

I look forward to seeing the technology and its implementation evolve, but today, it just seems to cost way too much, for too little benefit, for too few people. Looks like though, in a couple months, Crossfire may start to look better for more people as the price of entry to the technology drops...

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It's not so much getting your way that matters or not - what matters is how you go about getting it.

SFOSOK

What if a single card is more powerful then two of the generation before it? Like the 7800GTX. Its a single carde solution that is around 500 while the GT (which isn't that much worse) is around 400. Considering a 6800Ultra is around the 600 range and the 7800 GTX give almost double the performance for 100 less I'd say thats one hell of a deal right there.

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*Warning* - Explicit Content Preceeding



METAL!!

BWX

No I was talking about the total cost of the video cards, that being two top of the line ATI cards.. the X850XT PE as an example. Either way, the rest of your post made my point..
Either way it is a mistake to limit the resolution to 60hz @1600 x 1200. They should have found a way around it or been better prepared for a dual card system.. Or been more aware that they would have to compete with one. Basically they got blindsided. The customer doesn't care why they are limited, only that they are. At this point in most circumstances you would get the same performance with one Nvidia card- and that can do 1600 x 1200 @ 85hz.
The next generation of cards is not what I was talking about- I think ATI will have everything sorted by then, I am just talking about this transitional period with crossfire and the current cards..

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