BWX

I am breathing man. I am asking questions more for other people than myself.

I bought an ATI card just a little while ago knowing I would be using the CCC. Some people are deciding to go buy Nvidia cards rather than deal with the CCC. I thought about it before buying my last card too, the CCC was a big part of it actually, I decided to stick with ATI and ride it out.


Do you have the answers? If not, rest assured my respiratory system is working just fine. If you do, start talking, inquiring minds want to know.

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Robert McClelland

Thats good to know since I have x700pro card woot

__________________
"XTREME AUDIO IS CRAP!" "There no support for it. It's crapist card on face of the earth it should be throw into the sun"
http://www.speedtest.net/result/1949536385.png
correct the correct one now

vitriolic

been along time since i posted, although i do read the forums regularly.

I was in the exact same position as BWX. I used to have a 9800pro and I fancied an upgrade, couldnt afford to go PCIX so the only upgrade option for me was a new graphics card.

I read alot of reviews of the 2 cards that I could afford, they were the X800XL and the 6800GT. Looking at the reviews there is not much between the 2 cards in price / performance so it seemed that it was a case of who's drivers I prefered.

In the past the only Nvidia card I had owned was the GF2 MX, since then I've had a Radeon 8500, 9600pro, 9800pro. The ATi drivers have always been rock solid for me and caused little to no problems. The first incarnation of the CCC was an exiting time, even though it was a bit on the slow side I thought it had some great features. It's really good to see that it has really improved and the 5.10 release is great.

I'm glad I decided to go for the X800XL, great card, great drivers. The monthly driver update was one of the deciding factors for me. The sheer amount of nVidia drivers that are released often confused me and I was sick and tired of having to change drivers for certain games.

Have started to save for my new pc and there will definately be an X1800XT in it.

BWX

Yeah you were in just about the exact same situation as me.. I am also glad I got this card (BB ATI X800XL 256mb AGP), if the CCC for some reason bugs me I will find a way around it.. I am using it now.
The monthly official drivers are nice too.. CCC or not.

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The_Neon_Cowboy

doesn't matter if CCC was a million times better people would still
complain, wine m, and want the old one if for no other actual reson
then it's what thier used to useing.

Bull hockey! I ran with only 512MB for a long time just so that I would be
able to say that. I guess you can’t spare the 20MB of memory. CCC uses mostly
virtual memory anyways as in not as in RAM but page file on you hard drive.

BTW:

I had CCC on my nephews computer is has 256MB only then did I see
a slight issue. Only because it doesn’t have enough ram to begin with!
I threw a 5200FX in the system due to chipset and bios issues not
agreeing the 9100 card.

My parents rig has still has only 512MB and CCC no problem...

Actually to think of it there is a way to set up CCC where
it uses 0K memory, 0K page file, 0 k resources but I’m not
going to tell you as no matter what you still going to be finding
things to complain about …

Why? Because the old CP is like 2 years old now, and hasn’t been
updated in forever. Plus why would they prop up the old limited CP
that needs to go away? Why would they spend a lot of time money
and effort to add new stuff to it? Weather it’s possible or not. Why
should they have to worry about 2 control panels? You already got
an extra year with it for you nay Sayers. Time to bury it and move on…

There is no “feeling” CCC is better, it is and that’s all there is to it
weather you agree or not or have some beef with Microsoft and .net.
makes no difference. CCC is for all intense purposes far superior to the
Classic control panel. Weather you recognize it or not.

From the consumer end and for ATI’s end.

Keep in mind the “driver team” and includes “control panel team”
As I understand one project does take anything away from the other.

Well to a point that all any of these tools are. I mean I guess they could
make it so no tools what so ever would work and you have to be able to
use CCC only. If that makes you “happy”. But I don't thnk the see any point
to doing something like that so your allowed your alternatives... just as your allowed moded drivers...

Which do you makes more business since:
1) A limited and slowly developed CP that takes several months to implement
changes. Its virtually wasted effort,
2) One that is unlimited and major changes can be made in a single release period.
A cp that that is future proof for the foreseeable future and is cross plat form
Compatible long as there system can run .net. Both ATI and the customer benefit.

You said #2 CCC, thank you come again!

Well they bough their NVIDIA know knowing the NVIDIA has a .net control
panel too. Except they tabled theirs after people had a cow with CCC’s release.
But it back up and running full steam now. Some one said it around in small circles.
Unless you use some obscure OS you not safe from .net , and even .net can be
made to run on linux.

Do you play BF2?? Did you know it and other games uses.net!!!!!

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BWX

No I don't, it's a buggy mess from what I saw.

But thanks for answering all my specific questions with generalized answers.




PS- my next response to you after you answer will be:

ITs so easy to yank yer chain!

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OldBear

I am an old fart and don't usually have much to say. But I have to agree with that statement. I swore I would never be like my dad and get stuck in a rut and not try something new. If ATI did not move on they would get complaints. They are developing CCC and moving onward and upward and are getting complaints. No, it's not perfect and neither is the old CP. CCC is getting a lot better and eventually I will like it as much as CP. It is called progress and they are trying to improve. You can not please everyone.

Don't get stuck in a rut.

Ok. OldBear is tired now.

The_Neon_Cowboy

ViRuS2k is just annoying me a tad I have no probs with you....
I was board and the typeing gave me something to do


Thier genralised for a reason, The buggyy mess thats Bf2
isn't due to the part the uses managed direct X for .net .
Ea games needs thier heads slaped... there is still alot of
stuff that needs fixing in that game.

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Alistair

I never said they bought the high end cards. If you looked at the review (not saying you didn't), it showed not just the X850, but some of the lower cards as well. I fully understand the desire to use AA and AF, but the fact of the matter remains: not everybody uses these settings or even knows what they do. I personally do, but only bother with AF for certain games and AA only on games that don't support 1280 or higher resolutions.

Also, believe it or not there are games out there that can pound the newer cards into the ground and back again. Go try running EverQuest2 on max settings and see how long it takes for you to lag while grouped in a decently populated dungeon. That game alone is why I am debating heavily on which top of the line card I want to get this holiday season. (I bought my current X800XL in August on a temporary basis so I could wait to see what ATI would have out to compete with).

__________________
- Alistair

kelston

And that would be wrong. The question is, why introduce something new if it doesn't provide anything more? The CCC does absolutely nothing other than having the preview "videos" to see what your changes are doing. It's not exactly useful for anything versed enough in computers to be screwing around in the control panel in the first place. So what's it there for? Why is it better?

I subscribe to a very basic idea. Keep It Simple, Stupid. If it isn't broke, why fix it? Why force a program on users if it does nothing? Just because it's new does not mean it's better.

I don't care where the memory it's using comes from, I want to know why I need it using memory. I don't go into it daily, don't go into it weekly, I rarely go into it after setting it up the first time. Why do I need it taking up resources all the time?

By your logic, every device on your computer would load a useless control panel utility just because. You don't need it, but it's working on the theory that it takes up so little it doesn't matter. That small amount adds up.

If I don't need it or use it regularly, why does it have to be there all the time? I'm not using Notepad now. But I might use it sometime. That doesn't mean I keep it open all the time. How about you? When you start up your computer, do you have it load every single program you have installed whether or not you plan to use it? That's what CCC is. It loads up even if I don't plan to use it. Just because.

You didn't answer a simple question. Why did it need to go away? How was it limited? ATi Tray Tools is a utility that isn't exactly glorious or pretty or "advanced" like CCC is but it does everything CCC can do. If it's that simple, why did the old CP need to go away? What couldn't it do that CCC can? There's nothing the old CP didn't do that I found in CCC and use. So CCC is bloatware. It does nothing for me. It isn't an improvement on the old CP. It's the old CP except it's size has been inflated 100 times but does nothing different.

It's a glorified view of regedit.exe. I don't need it, so why have it? You never stated why the old CP needed to go away. It didn't lack anything. Maybe it wasn't pretty, who cares? I don't really care how pretty a registry editor is. You aren't demanding Microsoft give you a Registry Control Center built on .NET with preview videos to show you what your editting is doing. Regedit is many times older than the old CP. Why aren't you saying regedit needs to go away?

So if you see it, why don't you answer the question? How? How is it "far superior"? How? If you don't answer that, your post is a page long useless piece of garbage that is a waste of time reading because it simply provides nothing. It's you with your lips to ATi's posterior. There's no substance. Answer the question. Stop dodging it.

How is CCC better? How? How? How? How? How? How? I don't care how many times you say it's better. I don't believe you because you can't answer that single, one word question. How?

__________________
Pants are a dangerous foe!

BWX

Yeah I know, LOL... I am still curious about some of those things.. like the "reasons behind the reasons" - probably only the ATI guys who program the thing know. But I think there must be some advantage to them, therefore an advantage to us (with the quality/frequency of the drivers.

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The_Neon_Cowboy

Well so far features you can’t get with the old CP.
CCC isn’t based on limited and outdated tech like
the old CP. The old CP was like high tech in like 1995.

What they can do is vast, they’ve hardly scratched the surface
Of what they can do that they couldn’t do. Or that they could of
done with many more time and effort to do and upkeep. wich mean tens to hundreds of thousands of dallors needlesly up in smoke...

Changes that would have taken months can be done in a single release.
Mean CCC can be changed, features added, things fixed, etc all in
a short amount of time. So ATI has spend far less time money and effort
and get a better end result. The also wins customer wins, instead of waiting
months for changes, that could already have done with CCC…

You applying an analogy that doesn’t apply here. Unless you
saying you computer is no newer then 1995 because that’s all
you need and if it isn’t broke don’t fix it. No need for the entire
world to have gone any further then like DX6 and like windows 95.
Could you imaging how terrible the world of computers would be?

How about you try and load the classic CP on vista and tell me
something’s not “broke”. CCC can be made to work on
98/ME/2000/xp/2003/vista/??? Could even be ported to Linux.
Long as you can load and run .net. CCC is easy.

It makes no since to have more then one control panel. When
there is no NEED what so ever. Other then some people WANT
For what ever ½ baked reasons.


Why does it? Because then people like you cry a river about the
applications load times. Also to provide you with the task bar application.
Just in case you didn’t know the classic CP uses memory as well.

You’re not looking in front of you as you walk. Your tripping over things like
windows vista. That and that several companies use .net control panels. Those
with out them? Are likely working on them. That includes NVIDIA who is doing
their own but like I said before they put it off.

It doesn’t have to be. You guys aften claim to be so advanced
not to need a CP like CCC but can’t figure out some so very
obvious things ...

For one you don’t have to have any of that in memory period if
you give up some features you may not use. Yes, I could tell you
how but I get a perverse satisfaction in withholding information for
such advanced users, should be as easy as 1+1. It obvious and a
few inexperienced users have figured it out why haven’t you guys?
Several releases now…I’ve been able to do it with so I know it works.

The reason it loads, it not fully loaded its “cached “to allow some
of the features like the taskbar app, app profiles ,overdrive etc to
do their things. If you willing to give up those features that’s you
but some people use them and would be quite angry. You could have
your cake and eat it to like your wanting.

It not like having ery app open that you not using, because
YOU ARE USING IT. Just because you may not use the features
that require it doesn’t mean ATI should dick them over to make
you happy. you can't make 100% of the people happy 100% of
the time nor does t make any since in trying.

Technologically its ancient, developmental wise it is terriblely slow,
Things they can do as one application would need several apps all needed
people working on them.

It help their bottom line, it improves the rate at which they progress.
Time money and efforts that can be spent on the drivers and hardware
and new features.

Sory to rain on you parade ATi Tray Tools DOES NOT do everything
CCC can do sorry wecolme to the real world there are thing you can do
with the ATI CP that ATi Tray Tools can not. I’m not going to list them.
You and advanced user figure it out.Just because you don’t use
those things doesn’t mean others don’t. Again why should they
cater to just you and not the boarder audience. Obviously we can’t all
get what we “want”.

Rofl in part that’s true since they do store things as registry entries but
they could change that would mean good bye to custom drivers and 3rd
party tools. That wouldn’t make people very happy.

are your blind as a bat?. Several answers to “How?” has
been answer many times over. I answerd several in this thread.
I get tired of repeating the answer to how it better 50 million times.
It’s obvious, guess all these advanced users aren’t so advanced.

Also CCC is contantly improveing, Just go back and load up the 1st
CCC and you see CCC has come leaps and bounds.

__________________

kelston

I'll reply very simply.

List one. Don't reply with some useless crap and pretend like you know all the secrets that no one else knows. List one. What can CCC do that ATi Tray Tools combined with the old CP (still less memory usage) can't.

Don't constantly say there's something. You have never, ever, in the history of your posting in support of the CCC list a SINGLE thing.

So list one. Don't tell me there is something. Don't use that crappy response of "If you don't know, i'm not going to tell you". That just tells me you don't have any and you're just throwing up smoke.

__________________
Pants are a dangerous foe!

Alistair

Well would you care to tell it to the rest of us?


This is the closest thing to an advantage you have provided for him in this thread. Not trying to fuel the fire, I'm honestly curious as well.

__________________
- Alistair

The_Neon_Cowboy

Here I‘ll outlines what I said already 1st:

•Based on New technology More capabilities, A lot of potential and head
room, the possibilities are endless. Vs the old CP that was vastly limited
in comparison.

•Required for OS next, Cross platform and OS compatible thanks to .NET

•Classic control panel hasn’t been updated in roughly two years
unless you consider minor changes and fine turning.

•Features options and controls that have been added to CCC, As well as
features will be continue add. Where as The Classic CP deployment has
ended. Still has option not available even in the best 3rd party tools.

•Far Less development time need & expense VS the classic control panel.
Changes that would take months can now be doing in a single release.
Only so much can be spent of development so spending less there no doubt
Allows them to spend more on like drivers and hardware development.

•CCC us not only skinable your favorite 3rd party tools can be made to run
with in as a plug in. A good example would be Rage3d tweak already supports
this.

•Constantly being improved upon. (Especially now that they can draw their
focus just on CCC.)

CCC has vastly improved since release and it now ready for show time.
When CCC was released was to be the end of life for the classic .CP so
They already gave you guys an extra year with the classic control panel.
Time to trim the fat and let loss the dead weight. Realize all this extra
classic CPtime likley costed you some CCC improvments.

I don't know but a tad more then the average user should know
in regards to CCC. Most of what I've learned is from using it. That
and tinkering with it.There are many who know a lot more I’m sure.
since you can’t seen to see the ones I’ve pointed out thus far I’m
going to point you and have to take notice of spyre post here
he’s considered Expert / in the know on such things.

http://www.rage3d.com/board/showthread.php?t=33824589


Since some one finally asked:

Well you can disable the CLi's from starting up, Start the runtime
manually wait a moment and then lauch CCC can be done with
a batch file or manually.

If you need the commands look in the batch files in your CCC folder
C:\Program Files\ATI Technologies\ATI.ACE
Run time has to start then a few seconds must pass then CCC can
launch. Then Walla you'd no longer need any CLI running in memory!
Unless your opening CCC.

I've been expermenting with this for months. As well as a way to auto
kill the CLI.exes again when your done automaticaly when you close CCC.

But CCC doesn't use all that much IMO not something I'm
worried about my self. I look at it more for the reason to give
the whiners something to chew on...

(I knew these areguments would come up since the classic CP
has basically met its demise...)

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ViRuS2k

thats a great thing to say now isnt it.
considering my points of view have nothing to do with you.
but if you feel im annoying you then so be it.

fobis

Oh, boy. This is hilarious reading. Very entertaining....
Anyways, first off, WHY does the original CP take longer to program and tweak than CCC. I'm pretty sure the original CP is just programmed in C (which most skilled programmers know) vs. CCC in .NET. Unless ATi has some pretty lazy or incompetent programmers, they should be able to work on both at the same time. Honestly, I don't see ANY reason for them to move to CCC. There should be no excuse for ATi not having updated both the CP and CCC. It shouldn't take much more money or time to update either. And just a heads up, even though .NET is a newer technology, it isn't any better than C is. It's just a more pathetic and somewhat easier language to program in.

Alright, I don't understand how you can be an advocate for CCC even though you can't even tell us any facts by yourself. I realize you have provided a link, and that's great and all, but it just shows that you aren't very knowledgable but rather quite ignorant in this field, downcasting all of your arguments that you have made.
I don't mean to completely bash on you, Neon_Cowboy, I'm just pointing out the things I noticed throughout this HIGHLY entertaining argument.

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MacBook Pro
Mac OS X Leopard 10.5.4
Intel Core 2 Duo 2.33GHz
2GB DDR2-677
ATi Mobility Radeon X1600 256MB
120GB 7200RPM SATA HDD

kelston

Yeah and? I made a paper airplane on new paper. It's based on new technology that uses less natural resources. It's not white because the chemical used to bleach paper hurts the environment. My paper airplane is technologically advanced when compared to a paper airplane made on paper from the 70s. Mine still crashes 5 seconds after I throw it out the window.

It's got technology behind it, but it didn't make it a better paper airplane. CCC has technology behind it but it doesn't make it a better control panel.

Why? Because the next OS is so technologically advanced that it doesn't support standard control panels anymore? What's so special about .NET? It's been here, and I don't see any special benefits from it besides getting a memory hog of a video card control panel. Sweet. That's what I want in new computers. No wonder things require more memory. New technology requires useless control panels to run them, even if you don't enter the control panel.

So? I could say the same thing about CCC. It hasn't been updated, it's only been bugfixed and tweaked.

The classic control panel worked. I didn't see anything it couldn't do. You still haven't answered the question. What can't it do? Run on .NET? Oh no. This .NET crap isn't doing anything for me.

List them. What features? A snazzy menu system?

Oh so something on old technology that hasn't been updated that everyone knows how to use and mess with requires more work than new technology that still requires bug fixing and tweaking? Is there a time-space continuum tear that exists around the ATi driver team that things taking longer actually require less time?

This claim is hands down the stupidest one you've made. Even someone with absolutely no knowledge of computers can call you on this. Ridiculous.

Oh yea, because I enter the control panel so much that I need to skin it. What sort of retardedness is that? It's like the feature in Spybot to let you use custom skins on it. Why? What the hell is the point? That's what makes the CCC better? It takes 100 times more memory so I can add color?

Rage3D tweak currently does nothing useful. I uninstalled it because it's there doing nothing. Why do I need it?

LOL! LOL! LOL LOL LOL LOL!

Extra dead weight, ahahaha! That's a freaking good one. It's only dead weight if I don't want to use it. Oddly enough, that's the CCC! The CCC is dead weight! It's a useless addition.

Let me get this to you.

You haven't said a single thing that proves why the CCC is better. It has no additional features. There is nothing in it that the classic control panel could not do. In short, it is useless.

Answer the question. What makes it better? You haven't said a single thing. Your long post is nothing but useless marketing trash. Absolute garbage.

__________________
Pants are a dangerous foe!

pr0digal jenius

guys...this wasn't about the CCC or whether you think virus or neon are annoying, or whether you appreciate .NET as an architecture or not..it was about drivers.


As this no longer seems to be the case, I'm closing this (to trim fat and let loose dead weight )

If you want to discuss this further, feel free to open a discussion in an appropriate forum.