Anybody here bought a Parhelia yet?

Candyman · Jul 13, 2002, 02:51 AM

If so...show me some results and numbers!!!

UberLord · Jul 14, 2002, 02:21 AM

I should be getting mine sometime next week.

I will also be doing a review for DriverHeaven - not sure when I can find the time to actually write one atm (busy social life).

digitalwanderer · Jul 14, 2002, 04:05 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by UberLord
I should be getting mine sometime next week.

I will also be doing a review for DriverHeaven - not sure when I can find the time to actually write one atm (busy social life).

I don't know which I find harder to believe! You getting a parhelia or having a social life....

How much is the monstrosity setting you back? (If'n you don't mind me asking...)

Renegade[CSR] · Jul 14, 2002, 10:30 AM

I don't know. I saw some pretty nasty reviews about the Parhelia. I'd like to see some user results though. Perhaps a new driver set will come out making the Parhelia #1?

It would be interesting to see how everything turns out.

UberLord · Jul 16, 2002, 02:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by digitalwanderer
I don't know which I find harder to believe! You getting a parhelia or having a social life....

Ohhhh you biatch! (you're just jealous)

Quote:

How much is the monstrosity setting you back? (If'n you don't mind me asking...)

£310 including VAT and delivery.
So its about £80 more expensive than the ATI 8500 I bought last year

It's an expensive card, but according to the reviews the x16 FAA looks very nice and the games remain very playable. Thats the feature that suckered me in

alewisa · Jul 17, 2002, 06:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by UberLord
I should be getting mine sometime next week.

I will also be doing a review for DriverHeaven - not sure when I can find the time to actually write one atm (busy social life).

Wellll... you could always put it in the post, send it to me, and I'll review it. My social life is reserved for the weekends, so I have 4 nights a week to fill. Be doing you and everyone here a favour; giving you the time to socialise, consume vast quantities of beer (doing the brewery industry a favour), saving young maidens from their virginity (doing society a favour), and a review of the card (doing the peeps here a favour). Perfect solution

UberLord · Jul 17, 2002, 11:35 PM

[size=xx-large]EAT MY SHORTS![/size]

alewisa · Jul 18, 2002, 06:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by UberLord
[size=xx-large]EAT MY SHORTS![/size]

Yeah, I can do that as well, if it will help... just that kinda chappie, all helpful like.

UberLord · Jul 18, 2002, 07:06 AM

Did I mention that I super-glued them to your mom?

UberLord · Jul 18, 2002, 01:40 PM

Well, it finally shipped today. Hopefully arriving tomorrow or Friday. Stay tuned!

alewisa · Jul 24, 2002, 04:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by UberLord
Well, it finally shipped today. Hopefully arriving tomorrow or Friday. Stay tuned!

When does it arrive at my gaffe, then, matey mate?

UberLord · Jul 24, 2002, 04:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by alewisa
When does it arrive at my gaffe, then, matey mate?

About the same time your cheque for £400 arrived at mine pal

gibbon565 · Jul 24, 2002, 05:05 AM

So what are the cards like as I' am very interested in one as I know it concentrates more on the quality factor as aposed to speed which is great; 16x FSSA: DROOL :

My biggest worry are the drivers especially openGL as Matrox are not exactly renowned for them.

cakecake · Jul 25, 2002, 11:42 AM

They need to release drivers with better than 2X anisotropic filtering. Also, when the overclocking tool is released I wonder if performance will go up... and as far as quad texturing is concerned, Matrox has basically no developer support for games or Windows 9X whatsoever, so I would remain skeptical of that. Let's hope overclocking works and helps.

AFAIK the Parhelia should be benchmarked against the R9700 running at 1024x768 for almost all of today's games, and at 1280x1024 for games with 1024x1024 textures. So in fact I think it's not totally dead because the R9700's FSAA method probably needs high resolutions to work, and 1024x768-1280x1024 Parhelia should be about the same speed as a 1600x1200 R9700 in benchmarks. How much anisotropic filtering does one need on average to get clear textures throughout the entire scene? Based on what I've seen, nVidia's 8X Trilinear isn't even enough sometimes. ATi can do 16X Trilinear with the R9700 with the lowest performance hit of any graphics card, so I doubt the Parhelia will ever catch up to that through drivers or anything. When its drivers allow it then that should be added to the repertoire of test features and benchmarked at those two resolutions I mentioned above... even so I have a nagging feeling the Parhelia would lose.

But I think there's good news. You can still always run 640x480 with 16X FAA and get away with it. Other cards can't do that.

UberLord · Jul 25, 2002, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by cakecake
They need to release drivers with better than 2X anisotropic filtering. Also, when the overclocking tool is released I wonder if performance will go up... and as far as quad texturing is concerned, Matrox has basically no developer support for games or Windows 9X whatsoever, so I would remain skeptical of that. Let's hope overclocking works and helps.

I concurr with the aniso - my 8500 did it better. But thats the only thing it did better

About the Win9x support - I concur. They're making the right move as Win9x will eventually die away but I think they're about 2 years premature. But this is a card for modern computers and modern computers come with WindowsXP so you can see their thinking.

Quote:

But I think there's good news. You can still always run 640x480 with 16X FAA and get away with it. Other cards can't do that.

Can't argue with that - I was running RTCW @ 800x600x32 with 16x FAA.
I thought it was running @ 1280x1024x32 which is how my 8500 was configured.

And it looked better.

The FAA on Parhelia simply rocks

UberLord · Jul 25, 2002, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by gibbon565
So what are the cards like as I' am very interested in one as I know it concentrates more on the quality factor as aposed to speed which is great; 16x FSSA: DROOL : My biggest worry are the drivers especially openGL as Matrox are not exactly renowned for them.

16x FAA is more than drool - it makes offerings like ATIs and nVidias look childish by comparison

OpenGL drivers are solid - RTCW and Q3 run very well as do all my OpenGL scene demos/intros
My old 8500 had lots of problems running the OpenGL scene demos/intros in terms of speed and quality.

I think they've got that sorted

The only OpenGL app thats dissappointed me so far is UT with Dan Voguels OpenGL renderer

Jeff · Jul 25, 2002, 12:43 PM

You tried it with triple monitors yet?

UberLord · Jul 25, 2002, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cyborg
You tried it with triple monitors yet?

I've got the 2 spare monitors at work but......

I aint got space on my desk

Me and my m8's are organising a private LAN party soon so I'll take the opportunity when they're watching DVD's to try out surround gaming

Jul 25, 2002, 03:24 PM

I have one.

3DMark is 7000-7010 with latest drivers.

Here is the last one:

"3DMARK2001 PROJECT FILE

PROJECT
Name My Benchmark
Description
Registration Name T2k, CW!
Registration Key ooopss... no, thanks...
3DMark Version 330

DISPLAY
Platform Matrox Parhelia 128MB - English
CPU Optimization D3D Pure Hardware T&L
Width 1024
Height 768
Depth 32 bit
Z-Buffering 24 bit
Texture Format Compressed
Buffering Double
Refresh Rate 60 Hz
FSAA Mode None

OPTIONS
Show Title Screens Yes
Continuous Benchmark No
Benchmark Run Count 1
Demo Sounds Enabled Yes
Continuous Demo No
Game Sound Effects Enabled Yes
Game Music Enabled Yes
Game Detail Level Low

RESULTS
3DMark Score 7005
Game 1 - Car Chase - Low Detail 106.1 fps
Game 1 - Car Chase - High Detail 42.7 fps
Game 2 - Dragothic - Low Detail 109.3 fps
Game 2 - Dragothic - High Detail 66.3 fps
Game 3 - Lobby - Low Detail 105.5 fps
Game 3 - Lobby - High Detail 51.7 fps
Game 4 - Nature 29.1 fps
Fill Rate (Single-Texturing) 643.2 MTexels/s
Fill Rate (Multi-Texturing) 2483.5 MTexels/s
High Polygon Count (1 Light) 22.9 MTriangles/s
High Polygon Count (8 Lights) 10.0 MTriangles/s
Environment Bump Mapping 112.5 fps
DOT3 Bump Mapping 96.6 fps
Vertex Shader 85.2 fps
Pixel Shader 87.1 fps
Advanced Pixel Shader 70.9 fps
Point Sprites 12.8 MSprites/s

SYSTEM INFO

System Info Version 2.2
Installation ID 0x00000000
OEM ID

CPU INFO
CENTRAL PROCESSING UNITS
Manufacturer AMD
Family AMD Athlon(TM) XP 1900+
Internal Clock 1.60 GHz
Internal Clock Maximum 1.60 GHz
External Clock 133 MHz
Socket Designation SOCKET A
Type Central
Upgrade <unknown>
Capabilities MMX, CMov, RDTSC, 3DNow!, Extended 3DNow!, SSE
Version Model 6, Stepping 2
CPUID 0x00000662

(...)

DIRECTX INFO
DirectX Version 9.0

DIRECTDRAW INFO
DirectDraw Version 5.2.3642.80

DISPLAY DEVICES
Description Primary Display Driver
Manufacturer Matrox Graphics Inc.
Name Matrox Parhelia 128MB - English
Total Local Video Memory 128 MB
Total Local Texture Memory 128 MB
Total AGP Memory 120 MB
Display Driver MTXPARHD.dll
Display Driver Version 5, 13, 1, 1017
Driver WHQL Certified No
Max Texture Width 2048
Max Texture Height 2048
Max User Clipping Planes 6
Max Active Hardware Lights 12
Max Texture Blending Stages 8
Textures In Single Pass 4
Vertex Shader Version 1.1
Pixel Shader Version 1.3
Max Vertex Blend Matrices 31
Max Texture Coordinates 8
Vendor ID 0x102b
Device ID 0x0527
Sub-System ID 0x0840102b
Revision 0x03"

http://service.madonion.com/servlet/...jectId=3985899

Jul 25, 2002, 03:26 PM

I've used with my 3rd 21" monitor but I was a bit disappointed especially with the resolution limit: it's 1280 with three monitors...

cakecake · Jul 27, 2002, 04:41 PM

I'm just wondering though... what scores do you get with 16X FAA enabled and anisotropic filtering at max?

Aug 24, 2002, 04:24 AM

You can see the waves at the inner vertical edge of the wall columns - it should be straight vertical, of course:

Jul 14, 2002, 02:21 AM	#2
UberLord A Legend in Underwear Join Date: May 2002 Location: Unknown Posts: 5,255 Rep Power: 0	I should be getting mine sometime next week. I will also be doing a review for DriverHeaven - not sure when I can find the time to actually write one atm (busy social life). __________________ Gentoo Linux - Developer (baselayout) Read my blog "I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." Stephen Roberts

Jul 17, 2002, 11:35 PM	#7
UberLord A Legend in Underwear Join Date: May 2002 Location: Unknown Posts: 5,255 Rep Power: 0	[size=xx-large]EAT MY SHORTS![/size] __________________ Gentoo Linux - Developer (baselayout) Read my blog "I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." Stephen Roberts

Jul 18, 2002, 07:06 AM	#9
UberLord A Legend in Underwear Join Date: May 2002 Location: Unknown Posts: 5,255 Rep Power: 0	Did I mention that I super-glued them to your mom? __________________ Gentoo Linux - Developer (baselayout) Read my blog "I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." Stephen Roberts

Jul 18, 2002, 01:40 PM	#10
UberLord A Legend in Underwear Join Date: May 2002 Location: Unknown Posts: 5,255 Rep Power: 0	Well, it finally shipped today. Hopefully arriving tomorrow or Friday. Stay tuned! __________________ Gentoo Linux - Developer (baselayout) Read my blog "I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." Stephen Roberts

Jul 24, 2002, 05:05 AM	#13
gibbon565 Bouncy BOUNCY! Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Edinburgh, Scotland Posts: 316 Rep Power: 0	So what are the cards like as I' am very interested in one as I know it concentrates more on the quality factor as aposed to speed which is great; 16x FSSA: DROOL : My biggest worry are the drivers especially openGL as Matrox are not exactly renowned for them. __________________ 3500 x64 ASRock Dual Sata 2 7900 GTO 512 1 gig OCUK HANNS-H HW13D

Jul 13, 2002, 02:51 AM	#1
Candyman [DH] Lover! Join Date: May 2002 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 284 Rep Power: 0	Anybody here bought a Parhelia yet? If so...show me some results and numbers!!! __________________ AMD Athlon XP 1700+ @ 2.53GHz Abit NF7-S v.2 Thermalright SP-97 w/ TT Smart Fan 2 2 x 512MB GeIL PC3500 Platinum DDR 2 x 120GB WD HDD - RAID-0 2 x 80GB Barracuda V HDD - RAID-0 ATI Radeon AIW 9800PRO SB Audigy 2 HP L2335 23" LCD (DVI-D) WinXP Pro SP2

Jul 14, 2002, 10:30 AM	#4
Renegade[CSR] DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Undisclosed Renegade Location Posts: 396 Rep Power: 0	I don't know. I saw some pretty nasty reviews about the Parhelia. I'd like to see some user results though. Perhaps a new driver set will come out making the Parhelia #1? It would be interesting to see how everything turns out.

Jul 25, 2002, 11:42 AM	#14
cakecake DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 5 Rep Power: 0	The anisotropic filtering is supposed to suck They need to release drivers with better than 2X anisotropic filtering. Also, when the overclocking tool is released I wonder if performance will go up... and as far as quad texturing is concerned, Matrox has basically no developer support for games or Windows 9X whatsoever, so I would remain skeptical of that. Let's hope overclocking works and helps. AFAIK the Parhelia should be benchmarked against the R9700 running at 1024x768 for almost all of today's games, and at 1280x1024 for games with 1024x1024 textures. So in fact I think it's not totally dead because the R9700's FSAA method probably needs high resolutions to work, and 1024x768-1280x1024 Parhelia should be about the same speed as a 1600x1200 R9700 in benchmarks. How much anisotropic filtering does one need on average to get clear textures throughout the entire scene? Based on what I've seen, nVidia's 8X Trilinear isn't even enough sometimes. ATi can do 16X Trilinear with the R9700 with the lowest performance hit of any graphics card, so I doubt the Parhelia will ever catch up to that through drivers or anything. When its drivers allow it then that should be added to the repertoire of test features and benchmarked at those two resolutions I mentioned above... even so I have a nagging feeling the Parhelia would lose. But I think there's good news. You can still always run 640x480 with 16X FAA and get away with it. Other cards can't do that.

Jul 25, 2002, 12:43 PM	#17
Jeff Yarr... I be blind! Join Date: May 2002 Location: Calgary, Canada Posts: 3,191 Rep Power: 80	You tried it with triple monitors yet? __________________

Jul 25, 2002, 03:24 PM	#19
T2k Guest Posts: n/a	Yes, I have - but not bought... I have one. 3DMark is 7000-7010 with latest drivers. Here is the last one: "3DMARK2001 PROJECT FILE PROJECT Name My Benchmark Description Registration Name T2k, CW! Registration Key ooopss... no, thanks... 3DMark Version 330 DISPLAY Platform Matrox Parhelia 128MB - English CPU Optimization D3D Pure Hardware T&L Width 1024 Height 768 Depth 32 bit Z-Buffering 24 bit Texture Format Compressed Buffering Double Refresh Rate 60 Hz FSAA Mode None OPTIONS Show Title Screens Yes Continuous Benchmark No Benchmark Run Count 1 Demo Sounds Enabled Yes Continuous Demo No Game Sound Effects Enabled Yes Game Music Enabled Yes Game Detail Level Low RESULTS 3DMark Score 7005 Game 1 - Car Chase - Low Detail 106.1 fps Game 1 - Car Chase - High Detail 42.7 fps Game 2 - Dragothic - Low Detail 109.3 fps Game 2 - Dragothic - High Detail 66.3 fps Game 3 - Lobby - Low Detail 105.5 fps Game 3 - Lobby - High Detail 51.7 fps Game 4 - Nature 29.1 fps Fill Rate (Single-Texturing) 643.2 MTexels/s Fill Rate (Multi-Texturing) 2483.5 MTexels/s High Polygon Count (1 Light) 22.9 MTriangles/s High Polygon Count (8 Lights) 10.0 MTriangles/s Environment Bump Mapping 112.5 fps DOT3 Bump Mapping 96.6 fps Vertex Shader 85.2 fps Pixel Shader 87.1 fps Advanced Pixel Shader 70.9 fps Point Sprites 12.8 MSprites/s SYSTEM INFO System Info Version 2.2 Installation ID 0x00000000 OEM ID CPU INFO CENTRAL PROCESSING UNITS Manufacturer AMD Family AMD Athlon(TM) XP 1900+ Internal Clock 1.60 GHz Internal Clock Maximum 1.60 GHz External Clock 133 MHz Socket Designation SOCKET A Type Central Upgrade <unknown> Capabilities MMX, CMov, RDTSC, 3DNow!, Extended 3DNow!, SSE Version Model 6, Stepping 2 CPUID 0x00000662 (...) DIRECTX INFO DirectX Version 9.0 DIRECTDRAW INFO DirectDraw Version 5.2.3642.80 DISPLAY DEVICES Description Primary Display Driver Manufacturer Matrox Graphics Inc. Name Matrox Parhelia 128MB - English Total Local Video Memory 128 MB Total Local Texture Memory 128 MB Total AGP Memory 120 MB Display Driver MTXPARHD.dll Display Driver Version 5, 13, 1, 1017 Driver WHQL Certified No Max Texture Width 2048 Max Texture Height 2048 Max User Clipping Planes 6 Max Active Hardware Lights 12 Max Texture Blending Stages 8 Textures In Single Pass 4 Vertex Shader Version 1.1 Pixel Shader Version 1.3 Max Vertex Blend Matrices 31 Max Texture Coordinates 8 Vendor ID 0x102b Device ID 0x0527 Sub-System ID 0x0840102b Revision 0x03" http://service.madonion.com/servlet/...jectId=3985899

Jul 25, 2002, 03:26 PM	#20
T2k Guest Posts: n/a	I've used with my 3rd 21" monitor but I was a bit disappointed especially with the resolution limit: it's 1280 with three monitors...

Jul 27, 2002, 04:41 PM	#21
cakecake DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 5 Rep Power: 0	7000 3d marks, those are decent benchmarks! I'm just wondering though... what scores do you get with 16X FAA enabled and anisotropic filtering at max?

Aug 24, 2002, 04:24 AM	#22
T2k Guest Posts: n/a	Here isthe problem w/ 16xFAA You can see the waves at the inner vertical edge of the wall columns - it should be straight vertical, of course: