Gfx card problem while OCing CPUs, normal?

potnop · Mar 12, 2007, 02:31 AM

I'm trying to Overclock this really old computer. Specs:

PIII 450 Mghz Dual Processors
256 MB RAM
ATI Radeon 9250 256 MB VRAM (Omega Driver Installed, thinks it's 9200 Pro)

This was my first time overclocking. Looks like 100 Mghz is the default FSB speed for my CPUs. I managed to overclock to 600 Mghz at just below 133 Mghz(don't remember what setting it was exactly) for windows to actually be able to start. At 650 Mghz and 133 Mghz FSB computer boots up but right before starting to boot the disks it freezes so that was the limit I guess.

So at 600 Mghz which seems to be the best I can do without too much failure I can boot up windows and all that jsut fine. But I start having gfx card problems. I read many articles on overclocking and none said there would be problems with the gfx card. Is it a problem with Omega drivers, or does this normally happen anyway? I know there can be some instability, but it only happens with the graphics. Often times the screen goes blank and my monitor says the refresh rate is out of range for a bit, then turns back on a lil later and my gfx are totally messed up. Or the computer just straight up stops working. It doesn't restart, but just stops sending signals to the monitor and goes totally dead. Then I start windows back up and on startup it says that a fatal error occured with either the card or the driver for the card the last time I was running windows.

This also happens at 500 Mghz which is 111 mghz FSB or something.

So far the only really stable overclock I got is 466 Mghz which isn't much of an improvement over 450 mghz. Should I just use the stock ATI drivers or soemthing? This computer isn't really gonna be used for playing really high end games like Farcry or Doom 3 anyway, and I just have the Radeon so I could have 256 MB VRAM vs 16 MB VRAM in an older Nvidia Riva I had in here before. I just wanna play games like Warcraft 3 and stuff with good gfx settings.

If the driver's not the issue then I won't bother with that...

Could this also be cooling issues? I only have the generic fans that are attached to the P III processors. Computer seems to run fine until I use it for a while. So maybe if I get better cooling it would work better? Cuz when I turn my computer back on after a crash the BIOS setup says my CPU temperatures are like 62 and 61 degrees. One CPU is always lower than the other for some reason in all the readouts. And optimal CPU temperature is 30-60 degrees or so I read... So maybe the CPU heats up by a lot more than that when it crashes and cools back down once I turn my comp back on?

I'd love to go from 450 mghz to 600. That would be awesome!!!!

Also whats a good benchmark tool. I googled it and found a thing called PerformanceTest v 6.1. I used that for now. I'd really like one with emperature readouts because I'm sure the BIOS readouts are when it's idle and stuff and the computer jast started so the CPU's would still be pretty cool.

And is there a way to change multiplier on P III's? I read that P IV's have multiplier lock, but how bout P III's?

H3X4D3C1M4L · Mar 12, 2007, 07:22 AM

P3's are mostly multiplier gimped too if I remember correctly.

The graphics corruption you see is because your Radeon 9250 is being run out of spec on the bus (I assume its PCI or AGP this applies to both), since you crank up the FSB the divider remains the same and your PCI bus which is supposed to be 33.333 MHz (AGP is just PCI*2, so 66.6666), is now up near 40-45MHz which is waaaaay too high out of spec for some boards.

potnop · Mar 12, 2007, 07:46 AM

Yea it's supposed to be a PCI express card or something.

I guess that might be why...

I also read that turning up voltage to CPU helps unstability. On my BIOS I can't find any settings for chainging voltage. It's a crappy BIOS I'd say. All it gives is readouts. I had a lot of trouble finding the FSB settings too. In all articles on overclocking I see it has this other BIOS I remember having on a diffferent computer where all the settings are in one place and are modifiable.

But anyway, CPU voltage is already 2 V and it said on my CPU that's max.

Is there any way to make PCI not go that fast or something, or whatever would fix it? The only overclock that works for me right now is from 450 Mghz to 466 Mghz which is very dissapointing and in the CPU benchmarks the results are only slightly better on average. Sometimes the 450 Mghz results are better than 466 Mghz, depending on the trial. On average 466 wins out by a tiny bit.

Then 500 won out by a lot but I kept having issues. Same with 550 and 600. I'm pretty sure if I get the PCI thing to be fixed if it's possible I can overclock to those higher speeds which would be AWESOME!!!!

And yeah I also read that PIII is multiplier locked. I even tried changing multiplier settings on my mobo jumper for that. I actually expected the system to not even start, but it seemd to do nothing at all. The system seemed to run fine for the short time I ran it before setting it back. It didn't change CPU speeds at all.

Heh, can't wait to see what overclocking I can do on my good computer now!!!!! No more lag in certain areas in Farcry, Doom 3, and Painkiller I hope!!!!

Also this might sound funny. Would it be a good idea to take a fan and just keep it blowing into my computer while I keep the case taken off? Or does air need to be sucked out of the computer? Cuz I'm afraid it might just blow air into the computer and make the hot air stay and overheat it. I suppose there's a reason why everyone else actually installs real fans into the computers instead of doing what I thought of...

potnop · Mar 13, 2007, 08:19 AM

OK I've determined that this mobo probably jsut can't support the ATI Radeon 9250. THis comp is extremely old!!! Ima just fall back to the Nvidia Riva.

Every time I run a direct 3D app it starts having problems. Even when I'm not overclocking. Excpet when I am overclocking the card starts crashing even when I'm just running Windows.

It didn't seem to give me too much boost when playing WC3 anyway. I still had to set it on lower settings. So whatever. THis comp is just a hunk of junk and Ima get a new one once I go 2 college. And 4 now Ima play good games on my parents's computer.

I might still need overclocking help tho. Ima see If I can overclock to 600 Mghz successfully w/ Nvidia Riva TNT 2 now.

H3X4D3C1M4L · Mar 18, 2007, 02:45 AM

If you can't then you know you've got a PCI speed problem or the 9250 couldn't handle the PCI bus being so high. Otherwise the 9250 might be drawing too much power from the PCI bus which can happen.

@Your question of case fan: With the case open and a fan blowing in there will be nowhere for hot air to get trapped, so it will run cooler than with the case on.

potnop · Mar 29, 2007, 07:51 AM

Yea I'm not gonna use the 9250 in the old computer anymore. That is probably it. It's supposed to be a PCI express card and I'm guessing that's supposed to be a faster speed than regular PCI. So maybe this old mobo just doesn't even have support for that and tries to run it like its a regular PCI? Kind of thing?.... Maybe?....

Anyway, now I'm having trouble again with OCing my CPU. I can get it to 500 Mghz. But setting my CPU bus frequency higher makes the gfx card driver crash with a BSOD on windows startup for some reason. It's my old Nvidia Riva TNT 2 again. I also DLed the Omega drivers for that and it fixed many problems, but the BSOD still happens when I overclock. I know it must be the nvidia driver because I looked up my specific BSOD code that it returns. The Hexadecimal value you get when it crashes you know? And one of the specific reason for getting that error can be attributed to nv_4.dll or wahtever the name of the Nvidia driver was. I found this on some site, and the link to it was from here at driverheaven.net.

So who else has some ideas or should I jsut give up trying to get the most out of this old @$$ comp. I mostly need this comp to play games at night since the good one isn't in my room. And also I'm making a game and I wanna make sure it runs OK on lower end systems.

H3X4D3C1M4L · Apr 8, 2007, 07:14 PM

If you're going to be using this as a production machine (making a game) generally you don't want the machine to be overclocked, due to the inherently less stable nature of machines that are overclocked. Besides, increasing its performance defeats the purpose of testing on older, lower spec hardware

BTW there is a difference between PCI and PCI-e cards. I think you've got them a little confused, but this should clear it up

http://www.viperlair.com/articles/editorials/pcie/

Mar 12, 2007, 02:31 AM	#1
potnop HardwareHeaven Newbie Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 16 Rep Power: 0	Gfx card problem while OCing CPUs, normal? I'm trying to Overclock this really old computer. Specs: PIII 450 Mghz Dual Processors 256 MB RAM ATI Radeon 9250 256 MB VRAM (Omega Driver Installed, thinks it's 9200 Pro) This was my first time overclocking. Looks like 100 Mghz is the default FSB speed for my CPUs. I managed to overclock to 600 Mghz at just below 133 Mghz(don't remember what setting it was exactly) for windows to actually be able to start. At 650 Mghz and 133 Mghz FSB computer boots up but right before starting to boot the disks it freezes so that was the limit I guess. So at 600 Mghz which seems to be the best I can do without too much failure I can boot up windows and all that jsut fine. But I start having gfx card problems. I read many articles on overclocking and none said there would be problems with the gfx card. Is it a problem with Omega drivers, or does this normally happen anyway? I know there can be some instability, but it only happens with the graphics. Often times the screen goes blank and my monitor says the refresh rate is out of range for a bit, then turns back on a lil later and my gfx are totally messed up. Or the computer just straight up stops working. It doesn't restart, but just stops sending signals to the monitor and goes totally dead. Then I start windows back up and on startup it says that a fatal error occured with either the card or the driver for the card the last time I was running windows. This also happens at 500 Mghz which is 111 mghz FSB or something. So far the only really stable overclock I got is 466 Mghz which isn't much of an improvement over 450 mghz. Should I just use the stock ATI drivers or soemthing? This computer isn't really gonna be used for playing really high end games like Farcry or Doom 3 anyway, and I just have the Radeon so I could have 256 MB VRAM vs 16 MB VRAM in an older Nvidia Riva I had in here before. I just wanna play games like Warcraft 3 and stuff with good gfx settings. If the driver's not the issue then I won't bother with that... Could this also be cooling issues? I only have the generic fans that are attached to the P III processors. Computer seems to run fine until I use it for a while. So maybe if I get better cooling it would work better? Cuz when I turn my computer back on after a crash the BIOS setup says my CPU temperatures are like 62 and 61 degrees. One CPU is always lower than the other for some reason in all the readouts. And optimal CPU temperature is 30-60 degrees or so I read... So maybe the CPU heats up by a lot more than that when it crashes and cools back down once I turn my comp back on? I'd love to go from 450 mghz to 600. That would be awesome!!!! Also whats a good benchmark tool. I googled it and found a thing called PerformanceTest v 6.1. I used that for now. I'd really like one with emperature readouts because I'm sure the BIOS readouts are when it's idle and stuff and the computer jast started so the CPU's would still be pretty cool. And is there a way to change multiplier on P III's? I read that P IV's have multiplier lock, but how bout P III's? Last edited by potnop; Mar 12, 2007 at 02:39 AM.

Mar 12, 2007, 07:46 AM	Thread Starter #3
potnop HardwareHeaven Newbie Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 16 Rep Power: 0	Yea it's supposed to be a PCI express card or something. I guess that might be why... I also read that turning up voltage to CPU helps unstability. On my BIOS I can't find any settings for chainging voltage. It's a crappy BIOS I'd say. All it gives is readouts. I had a lot of trouble finding the FSB settings too. In all articles on overclocking I see it has this other BIOS I remember having on a diffferent computer where all the settings are in one place and are modifiable. But anyway, CPU voltage is already 2 V and it said on my CPU that's max. Is there any way to make PCI not go that fast or something, or whatever would fix it? The only overclock that works for me right now is from 450 Mghz to 466 Mghz which is very dissapointing and in the CPU benchmarks the results are only slightly better on average. Sometimes the 450 Mghz results are better than 466 Mghz, depending on the trial. On average 466 wins out by a tiny bit. Then 500 won out by a lot but I kept having issues. Same with 550 and 600. I'm pretty sure if I get the PCI thing to be fixed if it's possible I can overclock to those higher speeds which would be AWESOME!!!! And yeah I also read that PIII is multiplier locked. I even tried changing multiplier settings on my mobo jumper for that. I actually expected the system to not even start, but it seemd to do nothing at all. The system seemed to run fine for the short time I ran it before setting it back. It didn't change CPU speeds at all. Heh, can't wait to see what overclocking I can do on my good computer now!!!!! No more lag in certain areas in Farcry, Doom 3, and Painkiller I hope!!!! Also this might sound funny. Would it be a good idea to take a fan and just keep it blowing into my computer while I keep the case taken off? Or does air need to be sucked out of the computer? Cuz I'm afraid it might just blow air into the computer and make the hot air stay and overheat it. I suppose there's a reason why everyone else actually installs real fans into the computers instead of doing what I thought of... Last edited by potnop; Mar 12, 2007 at 07:53 AM.

Mar 12, 2007, 07:22 AM	#2
H3X4D3C1M4L DriverHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 6,794 Rep Power: 0	P3's are mostly multiplier gimped too if I remember correctly. The graphics corruption you see is because your Radeon 9250 is being run out of spec on the bus (I assume its PCI or AGP this applies to both), since you crank up the FSB the divider remains the same and your PCI bus which is supposed to be 33.333 MHz (AGP is just PCI*2, so 66.6666), is now up near 40-45MHz which is waaaaay too high out of spec for some boards.

Mar 13, 2007, 08:19 AM	Thread Starter #4
potnop HardwareHeaven Newbie Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 16 Rep Power: 0	OK I've determined that this mobo probably jsut can't support the ATI Radeon 9250. THis comp is extremely old!!! Ima just fall back to the Nvidia Riva. Every time I run a direct 3D app it starts having problems. Even when I'm not overclocking. Excpet when I am overclocking the card starts crashing even when I'm just running Windows. It didn't seem to give me too much boost when playing WC3 anyway. I still had to set it on lower settings. So whatever. THis comp is just a hunk of junk and Ima get a new one once I go 2 college. And 4 now Ima play good games on my parents's computer. I might still need overclocking help tho. Ima see If I can overclock to 600 Mghz successfully w/ Nvidia Riva TNT 2 now.

Mar 18, 2007, 02:45 AM	#5
H3X4D3C1M4L DriverHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 6,794 Rep Power: 0	If you can't then you know you've got a PCI speed problem or the 9250 couldn't handle the PCI bus being so high. Otherwise the 9250 might be drawing too much power from the PCI bus which can happen. @Your question of case fan: With the case open and a fan blowing in there will be nowhere for hot air to get trapped, so it will run cooler than with the case on.

Mar 29, 2007, 07:51 AM	Thread Starter #6
potnop HardwareHeaven Newbie Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 16 Rep Power: 0	Yea I'm not gonna use the 9250 in the old computer anymore. That is probably it. It's supposed to be a PCI express card and I'm guessing that's supposed to be a faster speed than regular PCI. So maybe this old mobo just doesn't even have support for that and tries to run it like its a regular PCI? Kind of thing?.... Maybe?.... Anyway, now I'm having trouble again with OCing my CPU. I can get it to 500 Mghz. But setting my CPU bus frequency higher makes the gfx card driver crash with a BSOD on windows startup for some reason. It's my old Nvidia Riva TNT 2 again. I also DLed the Omega drivers for that and it fixed many problems, but the BSOD still happens when I overclock. I know it must be the nvidia driver because I looked up my specific BSOD code that it returns. The Hexadecimal value you get when it crashes you know? And one of the specific reason for getting that error can be attributed to nv_4.dll or wahtever the name of the Nvidia driver was. I found this on some site, and the link to it was from here at driverheaven.net. So who else has some ideas or should I jsut give up trying to get the most out of this old @$$ comp. I mostly need this comp to play games at night since the good one isn't in my room. And also I'm making a game and I wanna make sure it runs OK on lower end systems.

Apr 8, 2007, 07:14 PM	#7
H3X4D3C1M4L DriverHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 6,794 Rep Power: 0	If you're going to be using this as a production machine (making a game) generally you don't want the machine to be overclocked, due to the inherently less stable nature of machines that are overclocked. Besides, increasing its performance defeats the purpose of testing on older, lower spec hardware BTW there is a difference between PCI and PCI-e cards. I think you've got them a little confused, but this should clear it up http://www.viperlair.com/articles/editorials/pcie/