Kgentatszu]

ok....... i'm using two pc2100 512 sticks branded APACER (not famous ,i think!) so , basicly you mean that it is hard to overclock them (memory), right? if i were to do so , how?? and how do i check whether they are running on how many MHZ? iwould like to OC them, and so far, how high a frequency can a PC 2100 being O.C to??

Kgentatszu]

by the way, will i get fried MEM if it is OC too high, or will i just get an unstable PC which forces me too change the settings?? PC800 RDRAM , what are those ?? are those running on 800 FSB??

shuki

ok you have 2 sticks of generic ram. will work rock solid and very stable at stock speed. By generic I mean in terms of OC ability (how well they OC).

Your OC will vary slightly depending on your mobo. what mobo are you using and what CPU? Unless its a new nforce mobo your cpu and mem OC will be directly related. The pc2100 is DDR which is double the rate of the fsb speed. So if you have your fsb in BIOS set to 133 (default) the mem speed is always double that so it runs at 266mhz. We always just go by fsb speed though as it makes it more simple. So even though a stick of pc3500 runs a 434mhz speed, we would call it a 217 because that is what we set the fsb to in the BIOS. By default your pc2100 memory runs there at 133 fsb.

Now if you go into the BIOS and set fsb speed to 140 you would OC your cpu and your memory by 14mhz. You would take it up from 266 to 280. And so on and so forth. With the new hardware one can essentially spend the money and have a maching running 200fsb right out of the box vs. the stock 133 speed. Not so long ago a 200 fsb was a great accomplishment but now it can be had very easily with the right mobo, ram and cpu combo.

IMO, OCing should be done directly from the BIOS but there are software programs that allow OCing from windows.


here is a good OC FAQ.

Kgentatszu]

i'm using P4S8X-X . is it called MEMORY FREQUENCY?? BUT, why is it CPU related? i found out that when i set the spu speed by default, i have a choice of 133,166,200 or so, while after OCing the digits changed to 138 ,170 or so .......(odd digits, it that it??)

Kgentatszu]

and, if it is it, what are the signs that shows it isn't stable?? Do i need to increase the DDR Voltage like i did with the Vcore.......

Kgentatszu]

By the way ,i'm using P42.67@ 2.96.

shuki

well I've never owned or OCed an intel rig But yes, those digits are the speed (mem frequency) and it is directly related to the cpu. They are just connected that way. Though with the newer AMD mobos you have a ratio you can adjust to eliminate that direct relation. Again, maybe some p4 people or intel people can post here about OCing an intel rig and whether or not the cpu and the mem are linked.

And you will not burn out your memory unless you run it for a very long time at high volts! you will certainly see signs of instability long before you damage any hardware. However, please keep in mind, that the OS install can easily get corrupted as windows boots up if the mem timings or votls arent' up to par. So as you begin upping your speed just be prepared to do format and complete OS install Just part of the OC game. If you're serious about it, I recommend getting a good drive image program and imaging your hdd then you can just reload the image when (not if hehe) you corrupt windows

and just an FYI.... on the bottom of your posts there is a little "edit" button. You can click on that and add to each post without having to re post each time...

you should spend a bit of time in that FAQ link I posted above... along with this page

Kgentatszu]

ya, sorry shuki, i'll keep in mind 'bout that.. and yup ,i've checked , i was and i am running on 148Mhz, but i would like to gain more but .......the next option is 185Mhz( isn't that too rush and too high??) i dont think my PC will boot (tried that , it just gives me a buzzing sound when i restarted) with that high a frequency or do i need to increase the DDR voltage. Apart from that , i've this Chipset Clock Mode which can be set to Synchronous, Asynchronous and Performance in the BIOS , are they related too? it is now set to Asynchronous ( yup, i set it myself, but l dont know why , maybe because i like the word more than the others!!)

shuki

yeah, from 148 to 185 is quite a jump. I would not advise it on pc2100 mem. and even with vmem maxed, still not sure if the mem would do it heh

OK looks like you have the option to set your cpu and mem to be synchronous or asynchronous or some "performance" setting. the best would be to synch them. That is what all pre nforce AMD mobos had was a synched cpu/ddr speed with no option to asynch them. Appears intel (or your particular mobo) has the ability to asynch the cpu and ddr speed Though if its asynch you should have some divider ratio to set to tell it what to asynch to.... look at your mobo manual

If it were me, I would synch them and try 148.

then look in there for a way to set that fsb timing to MANUAL or USER DEFINED or something so you can go up by single digits (or 5's is good) rather than such drastic jumps. First set it to synch and save and reboot then come back and look for that option to manually change the fsb numbers vs. pre set ...

Kgentatszu]

thankz , i'll try that later. hey, those sdram CAS timings, are those related too. i set them to 2-2-2-4. By the way, there's this JUMPER mode which my mobo supports, do you know how to activate them (maybe it helps in OC ing the mem) .'bout the manual you mentioned ,those were'nt stated specifically, only to mention that when set to synchronous , AGP/PCI frequency is coordinated with the CPU. When set to asynchronous , AGP/PCI frequency is not adjusted according to the CPU frequency. When set to performance, the AGP/PCI frequency is set to a higher value.

shuki

OK then regardless your cpu and mem are synched all the time and that only has to do with the pci and agp portion of the divider. By default that divider divides the speed of the pci:agp:cpu/mem. works like this:

4:2:1 divider = 33:66:133 in this case, your cpu is set to 133 and the agp speed is then /2 or 66 and the pci is /4 which is 33. that is default divider. evidently you have the option to lock off your agp/pci portion of divider allowing for higher OC when pci or agp peripherals might not be able to handle the speeds.

there is also a 5:2:1 divider on some boards which can kick in over 166 fsb to keep pci devices more in spec at higher speed.

for your jumpers you'll have to reference your mobo manual on each though IMO, if you can do it jumper free and all in BIOS its much easier

and 2-2-2-4 timings are very tight. get sandra benchmark and run the mem bandwidth bench at those timings. Then relax them to say 3-3-3-6 or 3-5-5-8 and bench again. As your mem begins to reach its max you can relax the timings to allow for higher fsb speed. For example, you may be able to get 150 at 2-2-2-4 but in order to achieve 166 you may have to use 3-5-5-8. Now that is 100% an example and by no means is it literal I have no idea what your particular mem/cpu/mobo combo will do at what timings...

Kgentatszu]

thankz shuki, you are very good at these in my oppinion, well at least you ARE if you are in MALAYSIA.......( regardless that i do not understand what you just mentioned above 'bout the 4:2:1 or 5:2:1 can you go into details, ~please??)

shuki

well the speed of your components are all linked and directly related to the fsb speed. All components are not built to run at the same fsb so there is a speed divider that keeps all hardware in spec. The running speed (fsb) of your system components breaks down like this:
1: cpu/mem speed
2: AGP speed (graphics)
4: PCI speed (any pci devices)

so if you have your fsb set to 133 then divide by 2 to get your AGP rate (66) or divide by 4 to get your PCI rate (33). See as you raise your fsb, they all go up. If you fsb is 166 then your AGP would be divided by 2 to = 83 and your PCI devices would be divide fsb by 4 to = 42. So when you OC your system its not just the cpu or the memory its the whole rig. Pretty much your PCI devices will handle that 42 speed but possibly not much over so the last gen mobos had in them a 5:2:1 divider which you could kick in at 166 and bring the timings down to 33:83:166 rather than 42:83:166 (5:2:1 divider vs. the 4:2:1 divider) and then you see that PCI is right back in spec at a 33mhz speed even though CPU and Mem are at 166

anyhow, google search on OC or dividers or something for a much better explaination I'm sure.... And in those links I've already posted I am SURE there is info in there too. Do a bit of research m8. its well worth it!

Kgentatszu]

shuki. thanks for the tips....... another question......i managed to run 185 fsb on my max timings which is 3-4-4-7, so , which is better, 148fsb on 2-2-2-4 or 185fsb on 3-4-4-7??

shuki

easiest way to tell is to bench 2k1 and 2k3 and sandra mem bench and let those scores answer that question Also, 3d apps are really good at testing for stability. To get into windows at 185 and to be stable there can be two different things Just run some benches and keep records for the future!! jpg's or something.

Kgentatszu]

what kind of situations will i encounter when we use the word unstable??
( damn!!, the next frequency would be 222MHZ , is that possible??)

shuki

hard locks, crash to desktop, BSOD, reboot, etc.. any and all of these

Kgentatszu]

( off topic questions) , i 've AGP FW enabled in the bios, but it is indicated as disabled in SANDRA ,why??

Kgentatszu]

what's BSOD, and is PC2100 capable of running on 222fsb, any suggestions??
what's the max fsb that you have seen running on PC2100

shuki

Sandra is not so good at picking all settings up correctly and that is one of them. BIOS is right. BSOD = Blue Screen of Death. and IMO 185 is really, really good for pc2100 don't quite see how it would go 222 But I am not at all familiar with your mobo or intel at all and how that all fits together on your side!! still if its a true 222 on the mem I don't see any possible way pc2100 will do it!!!!

Kgentatszu]

not only sandra, but even RIVA Tuner 2.0 ( i'm sure i did enabled the AGP fast writes capabilities in the bios!!!
$ffffffffff ---------------------------------------------------
$ffffffffff Northbridge information
$ffffffffff ---------------------------------------------------
$0400000000 Description : unknown
$0400000001 Vendor ID : 1039 (SiS)
$0400000002 Device ID : 0648
$0400000003 AGP bus : revision 3.0
$0400000004 AGP status : enabled
$0400000005 AGP rate : 4x 8x supported, 8x selected
$0400000006 AGP SBA : supported, enabled
$0400000007 AGP FW : not supported
$ffffffffff ---------------------------------------------------
$ffffffffff Display adapter information
$ffffffffff ---------------------------------------------------
$0000000000 Description : NVIDIA GeForce4 Ti 4200 with AGP8X
$0000000001 Vendor ID : 10de (NVIDIA)
$0000000002 Device ID : 0281
$0000000003 Location : bus 1, device 0, function 0
$0000000004 Bus type : AGP revision 3.0
$0000000005 AGP status : enabled
$0000000006 AGP rate : 4x 8x supported, 8x selected
$0000000007 AGP SBA : supported, enabled
$0000000008 AGP FW : supported, disabled
$0000000009 Base address 0 : df000000 (memory range)
$000000000a Base address 1 : f0000000 (memory range)
$000000000b Base address 2 : none
$000000000c Base address 3 : none
$000000000d Base address 4 : none
$000000000e Base address 5 : none

Crash Override

as shuki said above

trust your bios over a windows program

Kgentatszu]

Ok, thankz guys, just felt better......

Kgentatszu]

one more question, i found out that there's a warning from Sandra 'bout my memory:
"Tip T100 - Large memory systems (1GB or greater) should use Registered/Buffered memory, especially if more than 2 are installed on the same channel. This improves signal quality by reducing the load on the chipset channel. While these modules add an extra clock delay due to the on-board buffers (thus CL2 effectively becomes CL3), the stability will be worth it. Server chipsets with many memory slots g"

what does that mean and how do i do that??

Kgentatszu]

yup, you were right!! just cant get it to 222fsb. by the way, since i'm running 'bout 185fsb on C.latency 3-4-4-7 quite stably (which is the maximum )
, do you recommend me to sort of like tighten those C.latency (if no problem occured) , or should i leave it like that to relax the timings??

shuki

if they will run tighter run then tighter. But in all reality you're not going to see any REAL LIFE performance increase by tightening them. Sure you may have slight increases in Sandra benches or 2k1/2k3 benches but as far as actually telling a diff in day to day activities and gaming, you won't. If I were you, I would be very, very happy with 185 on pc2100 memory!!! And that Sandra "tip" is just saying you have purchased unbuffered memory and they recommend buying buffered memory if you have 1Gb+ memory that is not on Dual channel. Really nothing...... Stay put at 185 and just SMILE!

Kgentatszu]

thankx mate. anyway, are there any .....programmes which can STRESS my memory?? cause i would like to do so to make sure the stability even though i encountered no problems using it with games or 3dmark or Sandra. hey mate, do i need to set the DDR voltage a bit higher?? i didnt even dare to touch it even though i OCed the memory frequency..........

What's the difference between a buffered memory and an unbuffered memory??

shuki

if you are stable with games and 3dmark and Sandra thats a very good sign. But if you want to just burn in your memory just set the Sandra burn in wizard to run just the mem bandwidth bench. Set it to loop and set it on high priority (stress). Just let it loop

I'm still wondering how in the world your pc2100 is doing 185fsb at all let alone at stock volts crazy!

for part 2 you'll have to google search.

Kgentatszu]

so, do i actually need to increase it to avoid anything bad from happening ??

shuki

if its stable, keep it as low as possible. goes with all voltages.