Watercooling - worth it?

Judas · Jun 10, 2011, 04:13 PM

yeah 70/80*C seems relatively normal considering those cards have in some cases known to hit almost 90+ quite often (which i hate).

it's quite the conumdrum... as nothing like that "should" be happening..

Takaharu · Jun 10, 2011, 11:02 PM

Well, I confirmed it was the soundcard at fault from the heat - I completed the game tonight (go me!) without any glitches in the audio or video. It was going for a good hour or so using the onboard soundcard.

So, I guess it's sell the soundcard or buy watercooling.

blibbax · Jun 10, 2011, 11:20 PM

Try the soundcard in another PC?

Takaharu · Jun 11, 2011, 12:10 AM

As far as I'm concerned it's a conclusive test; the only time there is something wrong with anything is when the soundcard gets too hot, in which case it starts getting glitchy. No excessive heat, no problems. The only time enough heat is generated is during the use of a GPU-heavy application (ie: gaming).

Tyrsonswood · Jun 11, 2011, 12:37 AM

You could be the first to watercool a sound card...... j/k

sounds like one of the chips has become unstable at temps...... If onboard sounds good enough, just stick with that.

Takaharu · Jun 11, 2011, 01:06 AM

Curiosity question...

The Raven RV02 is designed so that a radiator can be placed on top of the 180mm fans for use with water cooling. If one does decide to make a water cooling setup in that way, wouldn't that be taking the heat off of the components through the liquid and partially giving back some of the heat because the hot air from the radiator is being dispersed into the case? Would that affect the internal temperatures much?

Tyrsonswood · Jun 11, 2011, 01:48 AM

That doesn't sound like a good idea......

Takaharu · Jun 11, 2011, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrsonswood

That doesn't sound like a good idea......

My point exactly; the heat is being taken away from the components just to be blown back on? The only other thing I can think of is that the fans are turned upside down but then you'd have the air blowing down to a 1" gap, which is also a bad idea.

OldBuzzard · Jun 11, 2011, 12:33 PM

I'd have the fans on a top radiator blowing OUT, and maybe a fan blowing out the back. Bring cool air in from the front and bottom.

That's based on a standard case. You will have to modify that to suit the needs of that "inside out, upside down, and backwards"

case you are using,

Yeah, there will be a bit of warm air inside the case coming from things like the NB, HDDs, etc, but nothing that will seriously impact the cooling of the CPU and GPU(s). The heat from the major components will be in the water loop, and very little of that heat will be lost to the inside of the case.

EDIT.
I wasn't all that familiar on the layout of that case so I did a bit of Googling. There's no way in hell I'd try to WC that case using a case mounted rad. If you want to WC it, an external solution would be the only way to go.

blibbax · Jun 12, 2011, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Takaharu

As far as I'm concerned it's a conclusive test; the only time there is something wrong with anything is when the soundcard gets too hot, in which case it starts getting glitchy. No excessive heat, no problems. The only time enough heat is generated is during the use of a GPU-heavy application (ie: gaming).

Yes, but it could be that the soundcard is simply oversensitive to heat (some minor fault perhaps).

There's also still the potential solution of a fan mounted inside the case to blow air directly onto the sound-card, or an exhaust blower next to the sound-card to clear hot air around it, both of which are far, far cheaper than an external radiator or new case.

I realise that this may seem like I'm trying to persuade you not to water-cool at all costs. I'm not - I have no issues with water-cooling as a method of cooling, but if it's as a solution to the problem, and there's a cheaper solution, I wouldn't want to see money wasted.

Takaharu · Jun 12, 2011, 11:57 PM

I'd say that the soundcard is over-sensitive to heat but I don't see how testing out the card in another PC would resolve anything. I'll try procuring a thin enough fan at some point but I don't have one to hand, sadly.

I think I might actually bite the bullet but it's debatable. The benefit is that I'd have a much quieter system that I'd be able to play without any real worries.
I'm considering getting a slim 360mm rad with two slim 180mm fans to replace the stock fans. I have 70mm clearance from the fan mount to the bottom of the graphics cards and the combined thickness of the fans & rad come to 55mm. I'd get another, thicker rad to attach to the 120mm Gentle Typhoon that I'm using as the top exhaust and water cool the CPU too. This is for the RV02.
This would (correct me if I'm wrong) involve connecting the CPU cooler to the top rad, from the top rad to the inter-connected graphics cards, to the 5.25" bay reservoir/pump combo, down to the bottom rad, which then links back to the CPU cooler.

The theory (objective?) is to minimise heat flow to the sound card and maintain a quiet, nicely-cooled system.

gaetan · Jun 23, 2011, 05:55 PM

I'm pretty new to this and the forums, and I have kind of a hard time following everything, so bear with me (pls).

I've been wondering the same thing for some time, and since I'm preparing to build my own rig, I was wondering: I'm planning on building a PC with the Thermaltake Level 10 GT and a Nvidia GTX 590. As most know (I suppose) the case has a big fan on the side (220mm or something), my question is this:

-Does it make that big a difference to take the plastic protection of the GTX 590 so the cooling would be more efficient?

I am a "pays a lot of attention to the appearence" kind of guy, so even though you can't directly see the card, I'd like it to look nice when I open the case to show it to some one, know what I mean?
In some cases I'm willing to sacrifice look for efficiency (after all it's my money :S).

Anyway hope I haven't asked a question already answered (I tried to read the entire thing trough...okay may have skipped some but I read more than enough

)

Thanks in advance guys (hope I'm not asking to much as a newbie :S)

Takaharu · Jun 23, 2011, 07:46 PM

I took delivery of an exhaust fan today. I've literally just finished fitting it and it's quite happily the loudest fan in my system, which is a tad annoying, particularly as it's making a kind of grinding noise.

gaetan - if you're all about the appearance, wouldn't it be a good idea to go for a nice-looking case?
In all seriousness, I'd imagine you'd be better off keeping the plastic cover on the graphics card as it was designed to be in place for cooling efficiency.

blibbax · Jun 23, 2011, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Takaharu

I took delivery of an exhaust fan today. I've literally just finished fitting it and it's quite happily the loudest fan in my system, which is a tad annoying, particularly as it's making a kind of grinding noise.

Fan controller / resistor?

Grinding noise doesn't sound good, though.

gaetan · Jun 23, 2011, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Takaharu

gaetan - if you're all about the appearance, wouldn't it be a good idea to go for a nice-looking case?
In all seriousness, I'd imagine you'd be better off keeping the plastic cover on the graphics card as it was designed to be in place for cooling efficiency.

As for the case design, I find it more attractive than most, so I suppose my taste is different from yours.
I don't know if it's strange to like this particular case, just that the cooling efficiency/design ratio was my favorite in most case I looked up.

For the graphics card, I though some more "fresh air" would help. Guess I didn't think about the fact that the devs had already thought about that (sorry if I offended anybody

).

Thanks for the clarification

P.S.: I'm not english mothertongue, so excuse me if I misspelled anything.

Takaharu · Jun 25, 2011, 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blibbax

Fan controller / resistor?

Grinding noise doesn't sound good, though.

The fan uses a Molex connector so I can't use a fan controller.
I figured out what it was - it's a kind of smart fan. What happens is that when there's plenty of airflow the fan runs at a moderate RPM. The more the intake is covered, the higher the RPM. Wedging the fan directly "underneath" a graphics card is practically covering the intake so the fan cranks up to maximum speed.

Oh well, at least it's only one game I'd have to change to onboard audio for.

gaetan - you'll have to excuse my dry sense of humour; everyone is entitled to their own opinion/taste. The only stupid questions are the ones not asked so feel free to ask if you're ever unsure about something.

blibbax · Jun 25, 2011, 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Takaharu

The fan uses a Molex connector so I can't use a fan controller.

You could still wire it into one, but I wouldn't be the one to advise how :P

gaetan · Jun 25, 2011, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Takaharu

gaetan - you'll have to excuse my dry sense of humour; everyone is entitled to their own opinion/taste. The only stupid questions are the ones not asked so feel free to ask if you're ever unsure about something.

Well, now that I re-read the post again, it doesn't sound much like I intended, I suppose insinting on the fact that I like this case more than others made the whole thing sound "bad", sort of.

And personatly, as a newbie, it sounds even worse from my point of view.
(I mean the whole point of answering like this to a member that has earned his place)

Anyway, don't worry about it, I'm sorry for the way I answered, but thanks again for the info

OldBuzzard · Jun 25, 2011, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gaetan

... Anyway, don't worry about it, I'm sorry for the way I answered, but thanks again for the info

I wouldn't be. I sure didn't see anything objectionable in any of your posts.

As for your English, it's excellent. If you wouldn't have said anything about it not being your mother tongue, I would never have guessed that it wasn't.

Besides this board is very international in flavor, and no one (other than an idiot) should expect everyone to be perfect in English.

As for speeling, I iz a rednek, and mi speeling ain't always gud either

gaetan · Jun 25, 2011, 04:58 PM

As you mentioned this board is international, and since I've moved a lot, I noticed that with a different language, comes a different way of thinking.

In the end I don't really know how my answer sounded to you, but to be honest, to me it sounded like a sarcastic answer, something I don't think is very appropriate when talking to someone who has earn his place before me.

I specified that I wasn't English mother tongue because some terms I wasn't exactly sure of the spelling, so, but thanks for the compliment.

BTW I like your signature, I have another one for you "Failure is ALWAYS and option." (Mythbusters)

procupine14 · Sep 14, 2011, 02:42 PM

Overclocking as much as I do, watercooling was a great thing for me. My PC is in an Antec DarkFleet and is silent with all fans on low speed. I watercooled for the low noise. The thing still heats up my room just as badly but at least I don't have to listen to it while it does it.

Not to mention that watercooling just looks cool (side benefit

)

The side effect is cost. It is definitely expensive to run a liquid setup I don't deny that at all. If you can get the temps under control using fans without it being too noisy I would go that route honestly.

MGaz · Sep 15, 2011, 03:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Judas

yeah 70/80*C seems relatively normal considering those cards have in some cases known to hit almost 90+ quite often (which i hate).

it's quite the conumdrum... as nothing like that "should" be happening..

did you sort this? I see your case has air filters attached to the bottom fans. When was the last time they were taken off and cleaned? could they be blocked up? I know my brothers case has filters on the front of it and they looked like they had been used on a vacuum cleaner. lol

Also, have you thought about a Corsair H50 water cooler? or perhaps the model up with the two 'push-pull' fans ?

Its a simple set up, and works a treat. my idle temps are less than 30" Deg C on the cpu at the moment.

Jun 10, 2011, 11:02 PM	Thread Starter #62
Takaharu I can fart in 7 languages Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: England, UK Posts: 1,859 Rep Power: 113 System Specs	Re: Watercooling - worth it? Well, I confirmed it was the soundcard at fault from the heat - I completed the game tonight (go me!) without any glitches in the audio or video. It was going for a good hour or so using the onboard soundcard. So, I guess it's sell the soundcard or buy watercooling. __________________ I don't get paid to know the answer, therefore I'm far more likely to give you a straight and honest answer. Mods Rig, Box Mods Rig, Folding details

Jun 10, 2011, 11:20 PM	#63
blibbax What does this do? Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Oxford, UK Posts: 4,262 Rep Power: 254 System Specs	Re: Watercooling - worth it? Try the soundcard in another PC? __________________ Donate the spare computing power of your PC to help to cure Alzheimer's, ALS, Huntington's, Parkinson's disease and cancer: Fold for HH!

Jun 11, 2011, 12:10 AM	Thread Starter #64
Takaharu I can fart in 7 languages Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: England, UK Posts: 1,859 Rep Power: 113 System Specs	Re: Watercooling - worth it? As far as I'm concerned it's a conclusive test; the only time there is something wrong with anything is when the soundcard gets too hot, in which case it starts getting glitchy. No excessive heat, no problems. The only time enough heat is generated is during the use of a GPU-heavy application (ie: gaming). __________________ I don't get paid to know the answer, therefore I'm far more likely to give you a straight and honest answer. Mods Rig, Box Mods Rig, Folding details

Jun 11, 2011, 01:06 AM	Thread Starter #66
Takaharu I can fart in 7 languages Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: England, UK Posts: 1,859 Rep Power: 113 System Specs	Re: Watercooling - worth it? Curiosity question... The Raven RV02 is designed so that a radiator can be placed on top of the 180mm fans for use with water cooling. If one does decide to make a water cooling setup in that way, wouldn't that be taking the heat off of the components through the liquid and partially giving back some of the heat because the hot air from the radiator is being dispersed into the case? Would that affect the internal temperatures much? __________________ I don't get paid to know the answer, therefore I'm far more likely to give you a straight and honest answer. Mods Rig, Box Mods Rig, Folding details

Jun 11, 2011, 12:33 PM	#69
OldBuzzard DH's oldest Geek Join Date: May 2003 Location: Oberlin, OH Posts: 2,783 Rep Power: 145 System Specs	Re: Watercooling - worth it? I'd have the fans on a top radiator blowing OUT, and maybe a fan blowing out the back. Bring cool air in from the front and bottom. That's based on a standard case. You will have to modify that to suit the needs of that "inside out, upside down, and backwards" case you are using, Yeah, there will be a bit of warm air inside the case coming from things like the NB, HDDs, etc, but nothing that will seriously impact the cooling of the CPU and GPU(s). The heat from the major components will be in the water loop, and very little of that heat will be lost to the inside of the case. EDIT. I wasn't all that familiar on the layout of that case so I did a bit of Googling. There's no way in hell I'd try to WC that case using a case mounted rad. If you want to WC it, an external solution would be the only way to go. __________________ When looking for a reason as to why things go wrong, never rule out sheer STUPIDITY Last edited by OldBuzzard; Jun 11, 2011 at 12:51 PM.

Jun 12, 2011, 11:57 PM	Thread Starter #71
Takaharu I can fart in 7 languages Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: England, UK Posts: 1,859 Rep Power: 113 System Specs	Re: Watercooling - worth it? I'd say that the soundcard is over-sensitive to heat but I don't see how testing out the card in another PC would resolve anything. I'll try procuring a thin enough fan at some point but I don't have one to hand, sadly. I think I might actually bite the bullet but it's debatable. The benefit is that I'd have a much quieter system that I'd be able to play without any real worries. I'm considering getting a slim 360mm rad with two slim 180mm fans to replace the stock fans. I have 70mm clearance from the fan mount to the bottom of the graphics cards and the combined thickness of the fans & rad come to 55mm. I'd get another, thicker rad to attach to the 120mm Gentle Typhoon that I'm using as the top exhaust and water cool the CPU too. This is for the RV02. This would (correct me if I'm wrong) involve connecting the CPU cooler to the top rad, from the top rad to the inter-connected graphics cards, to the 5.25" bay reservoir/pump combo, down to the bottom rad, which then links back to the CPU cooler. The theory (objective?) is to minimise heat flow to the sound card and maintain a quiet, nicely-cooled system. __________________ I don't get paid to know the answer, therefore I'm far more likely to give you a straight and honest answer. Mods Rig, Box Mods Rig, Folding details

Jun 23, 2011, 05:55 PM	#72
gaetan HardwareHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Italy Posts: 521 Rep Power: 44 System Specs	Re: Watercooling - worth it? I'm pretty new to this and the forums, and I have kind of a hard time following everything, so bear with me (pls). I've been wondering the same thing for some time, and since I'm preparing to build my own rig, I was wondering: I'm planning on building a PC with the Thermaltake Level 10 GT and a Nvidia GTX 590. As most know (I suppose) the case has a big fan on the side (220mm or something), my question is this: -Does it make that big a difference to take the plastic protection of the GTX 590 so the cooling would be more efficient? I am a "pays a lot of attention to the appearence" kind of guy, so even though you can't directly see the card, I'd like it to look nice when I open the case to show it to some one, know what I mean? In some cases I'm willing to sacrifice look for efficiency (after all it's my money :S). Anyway hope I haven't asked a question already answered (I tried to read the entire thing trough...okay may have skipped some but I read more than enough ) Thanks in advance guys (hope I'm not asking to much as a newbie :S)

Jun 23, 2011, 07:46 PM	Thread Starter #73
Takaharu I can fart in 7 languages Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: England, UK Posts: 1,859 Rep Power: 113 System Specs	Re: Watercooling - worth it? I took delivery of an exhaust fan today. I've literally just finished fitting it and it's quite happily the loudest fan in my system, which is a tad annoying, particularly as it's making a kind of grinding noise. gaetan - if you're all about the appearance, wouldn't it be a good idea to go for a nice-looking case? In all seriousness, I'd imagine you'd be better off keeping the plastic cover on the graphics card as it was designed to be in place for cooling efficiency. __________________ I don't get paid to know the answer, therefore I'm far more likely to give you a straight and honest answer. Mods Rig, Box Mods Rig, Folding details

Jun 25, 2011, 04:58 PM	#80
gaetan HardwareHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Italy Posts: 521 Rep Power: 44 System Specs	Re: Watercooling - worth it? As you mentioned this board is international, and since I've moved a lot, I noticed that with a different language, comes a different way of thinking. In the end I don't really know how my answer sounded to you, but to be honest, to me it sounded like a sarcastic answer, something I don't think is very appropriate when talking to someone who has earn his place before me. I specified that I wasn't English mother tongue because some terms I wasn't exactly sure of the spelling, so, but thanks for the compliment. BTW I like your signature, I have another one for you "Failure is ALWAYS and option." (Mythbusters)

Sep 14, 2011, 02:42 PM	#81
procupine14 Why is it Beeping!?!?! Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: USA, Missouri Posts: 1,400 Rep Power: 58 System Specs	Re: Watercooling - worth it? Overclocking as much as I do, watercooling was a great thing for me. My PC is in an Antec DarkFleet and is silent with all fans on low speed. I watercooled for the low noise. The thing still heats up my room just as badly but at least I don't have to listen to it while it does it. Not to mention that watercooling just looks cool (side benefit ) The side effect is cost. It is definitely expensive to run a liquid setup I don't deny that at all. If you can get the temps under control using fans without it being too noisy I would go that route honestly. __________________ HTPC/file server: Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit - AMD Phenom x4 9850 - 4GB OCZ DDR2 800 (2x2GB) - 1TB WD Black - 4 x 1TB Hitachi DeskStar in RAID 5 - ATi TV Wonder Digital Cable Tuner - HIS Raedon 4850 512MB - ASRock N68C-S UCC mobo - OCZ ModExtreme Pro 500W PSU GF's Gaming PC: Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit - AMD Phenom 9850 - 4GB OCZ DDR2 1066 - 500GB Western Digital GP - HIS Raedon 5770 1GB - ASUS M3A78-EM - Zalman 650W PSU Media Streamer: Win 7 Pro 64-bit - AMD Athlon x2 3200+ - 4GB SuperTalent DDR2 800 - 250GB SeaGate Barracuda - MSI K9N6PGM2-V2 - ASUS Raedon 5450 SILENT - FSP group 250W PSU