CrapolaJola

Update: added WC parts to the list
Update: Changed parts list a bit

Boo fucking yah next Saturday I get cable internet after 3 years of shitty6k. Then soon after that I shall be ordering the upgrades for my comp, although I feel bad as I got a new comp last summer (after 3 years of a craptacular p2 sys) and now I'm already upgrading almost every component in my comp.

For the upgrades, I've put together what is basically my final upgrade list, but I'd like to get the go ahead from my fellow DH members on the parts. For the non-WC parts I'm open to suggestions, but you better do a VERY good job of convincing of getting another part instead of it, as I'm very set on these parts. Also, no fanboy/biased crap involving the video card please, I'm basically set on this 6800GT and spamming crap about Nvidias cheats and crap won't get me back on the ATI bandwagon. So, if you do comment on the video card please be reasonable about and use things like numbers, pricing, and availability to switch me back to ATI. As for the water cooling setup, I'm pretty new to the world of water cooling so suggestions are welcomed and encouraged. Also, sorry if the post seems angry and/or has bad grammer/spelling (I'll try to fix as much of it as I can), but I haven't slept much the past few days (even though I don't sleep much anyways) so when I'm up @ 4am as usual (actually 4:30 now, not 4 oops) I tend to be angry about things - The angry thing is about the Nvidia mostly, they're a good company, but everyone bashes them soooo much. I really like their new vid cards and their mobos just kick ass. Therefore, I was kinda angry about it.

Also, just to tell although I'm 99.9% sure I'm going to Nvidia, I will still visit here, as this place kicks all ass, and support the ATI users, as ATI will still have a place in my heart. Now onto my list of pwn sauce upgrades! w00tw00t

CPU: Athlon 64 3000+ - Looking @ Vampys 3000+ currently, although it may not work out, if it doesn't I'll shoot for a newer CG revision (his is C0).

Mobo: Epox EP-8KDA3J - Damn fine OCer, no need to pay $50 more for the extra SATA ports on the 8KDA3+

RAM: 2x256 OCZ EB PC-3700 - I am considering keeping my current 2x256 Corsair PC-3200LL setup though as Athlon 64s don't need a 1:1 ratio to be fast they can use divisors and still get great performance (need opinions on this - keep old or buy new)

Video Card: PNY 6800GT - great performance, sweet price ($330!), and lots of driver releases (I'm obsessed with having the absolute latest leaks and best performance - ATI you maybe get one leaked set inbetween major releases MAYBE)

Hard drive: 36.7GB Western Digital Raptor - Is there a better choice than this? EDIT: Considering a Hitachi 160GB SATA (8mb cache and 7200rpm) drive as they're affordable ($96 @ NewEgg) and I'm worried once I get cable I'll fill up the new raptor very fast.
Case: still undecided - Lian Li PC-V1000 (steep price, but nice cooling, sleek look, and very sweet/innovative interior) or the TT Tsunami, which was recently reviewed here.

PSU: Tagan 480W or Fortron 530W. Can't decide both are nice

Water cooling:
Thermalpaste: Artic Silver 5
CPU Block: Danger Den TDX
GPU Block: DDs new 6800 block (comes out later this month)
Radiator/Heatercores: DDs Dual heatercores w/ shrouds
Fans: 2x120mm - not sure on brands yet or what I want involving the performance/noise ratio
Pump: MCP600.
Other (Hoses, tubing, clamps, etc.): need help on brands and crap here guys
Also, could you reccomend some nice online stores (for US) that have good prices on WC setups. Thanks guys

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P2 X4 @ 3.6ghz, 4gb ddr3, SSD, 5870 @ 950/1250 + a 3ghz i5 lappy

Zardon

good all round components, id go with a slightly higher AMD model to get the larger cache mind you.

Vantec tornado? - Noise Level: 56.4 dBA ? no thanks, too much noise for my liking go for the YS-Tech FD9325 92mm Fan, puts out 50cfm which is more than enough for anything and as you say you are going to watercooling will tide you over with MUCH lower noise levels.

Speed - 2400RPM
- Output - 50.0CFM
- Decibels - 31.9dBA

AS for your ram topic. you need 1 gig now to play the newest titles. farcry is testiment to that, so if you dont have the funds, get a stick now and a stick later or compromise elsewhere if you arent willing to spend more.

"Hard drive: 36.7GB Western Digital Raptor - Is there a better choice than this?"

yes there is, two of them in raid or the larger models which are even faster !

oh yeah your subject of drivers on ATI, isnt a driver a month enough? lol, come on seriously. the 6800GT is an awesome board but dont be purchasing it based on "driver leaks", if nvidia starting releasing a driver a month you wouldnt need leaks in the first place. then there are Omega and other modders making drivers as well !

CrapolaJola

Well I'm trying not to spend to much money so I was trying to avoid buying a 3200+ with a 1MB cache. There is also some debate as to get a Clawhammer w/ 1MB cache or a Newcastle w/ 512KB as the NC can reach highly over clocks, but the 1MB may still be able to keep up even @ lower clock speeds as the more you raise the clocks the more performance you gain from the extra cache.

I've already been using the Vantec Tornado on my current setup and you get used to the high noise level, although there is a point in the RPM of the fan where it suddenly gets a lot louder so I use my fan controller to set it right be low that point, around 3600ish rpm I belive.

You're right I shouldn't skimp on the RAM, it would be nice to buy a 512 stick now and another later so I could get it faster, but if I remember OCZ doesn't make single 512 sticks of the PC-3700EB only 2x512 dual channel kits.

Hard drive: Don't need the extra space as I'll only have a super light version of WinXP (nLite rocks) and the main games I'll be playing. Downloads and older games which already load fast enough can go on the old seagate, but if that runs out of space I may pick a nice 120 or 160GB 7200RPM SATA drive as those go for an affordable price. AS for raid 0 I find it pointless, no need to buy 2 drives then lsoe the space of the extra drive for soem extra performance. I don't worry too much about HDD perforamnce either way, I just wanted something faster than my current Seagate Barracuda which is 7200RPM and a 2MB cache. My friend has a WD 7200RPM 8MB cache drive and even just the extra cache makes it quite a bit faster than time. So, the cache upgrade and RPM upgrade is more than enough for me.

Zardon, did you recieve my PM about your Zalman setup?

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P2 X4 @ 3.6ghz, 4gb ddr3, SSD, 5870 @ 950/1250 + a 3ghz i5 lappy

Zardon

yeah sorry I meant to reply last night, I replied a while ago.

EDIT: btw striping hard drives although risky, as you are doubling the chance of a failure gives very noticeable gains. Perhaps when you purchase one at a later date you can get another when funds permit, you might be surprised ! you also dont lose any space.

Drakon

i am just wondering, Z, where can i find that fan? do u use it? is it really noisy?

Zelig

RAID 0 isn't really worth it IMO most of the time. I had a RAID 0 setup for a few months, and noticed minimal speed differences, and those being only in the loading of programs, and copying of large files.

There's reviews and benchmarks that will attest here, here and http://www.storagereview.com/articles/200406/20040625TCQ_1.html.

Necrosis

Go /w the BFG GT since it's clocked higher.

@/2ct!<

woot, I love following your posts around jola, I can take advice given to you and apply it to me. Anyway, Im considering a fortron 530 or antec 550, a little more but its good to get more than you think you'll ever need, especially since 6800s suck so much juice. I really wanted a 3200+ cg, but they seem impossible to find so thats why Id get the 3000+, as the jump to 3400+ is so big, and you might as well go 939 if you can get a 3400+. Im getting a standard 120 sata drive, probably seagate cause they are quiet. I dont really see much advantage to raptors other than a few seconds load time, boot time. Yeah, with ram I am somewhat undecided, but I would definately install your old ram and see how it runs, then save up until you can buy a gig.

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tastyweat

Beware the Antec... it's noisy

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CrapolaJola

Well I'll give a small update here, I can't add WC parts yet as my parents want me to go mow the lawn and they're mad that I slept in for liek the 1st time this summer GAH. Hmm with Raid 0 I thought you had the same thing on each drive and it accessed different files on each drive to speed up or something like that, so in a sense you would lose the speed. Drakon I have the fan, you can get it at newegg, as for the noise @ full speed it's pretty loud, but if you have a fan controller you can turn it down to 3600/3700rpm then it will be fairly quiet and it will keep your cpu very cool.

As for the video card, the PNY 6800GT is $330ish at a few places, the lowest price I've seen on the BFG model is $400 so that's a no no. Either way most 6800GTs clock up to Ultra speeds with the stock cooling.

I think I can stand an Antec PSU's sound level after having a vantec tornado since last summer , although I'm still considering the Tagan as not only is it silent it is stil la very good psu. Although the Fortrons insterest me as well.

Guys I'm updating the component list so you can see what I have for my WC parts please give input on these as I'm new to water cooling.

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P2 X4 @ 3.6ghz, 4gb ddr3, SSD, 5870 @ 950/1250 + a 3ghz i5 lappy

Zardon

I ran my own tests and wouldnt be without raid. I see massive differences, especially with stratch discs in photoshop

http://www.hardwareheaven.com/reviews/raptor/final.htm

Drakon

u r referring to the YS-Tech FD9325 92mm Fan, right?

Zardon

RAID 0 should really be called "AID", since it involves no redundancy. Files are broken into stripes of a size dictated by the user-defined stripe size of the array, and stripes are sent to each disk in the array. Giving up redundancy allows this RAID level the best overall performance characteristics of the single RAID levels, especially for its cost.

Zardon

no he is talking about the vantec tornado. the YSTECH 9325 is massively quieter and is probably the best noise/performance 92mm fan you can get, around 32db with 50cfm output.

Drakon

thanks Z, now where can i find this fan? i checked newegg but all they have is this

Zardon

if you are in the UK you can get it here

ive had to buy a few of these for mates in different parts of the world as they seem somewhat hard to get.

Drakon

i don't live in the uk, i live in the us... not sure where to look for us retailers... thanks btw...

Zelig

Yeah, for media creation types, RAID 0 can be worth using, but I remain unconvinced that it's any good for normal users, or gamers, since these people will see more performance increases from upgrading almost any other part of their computer.

Zardon

Well ill stick with load times almost double the speed in farcry for £80, but ill take your word for it

Zardon

if you are stuck ill help you out. let me know if you cant find a dealer, you can paypal me the money ill get it shipped for you.

Drakon

thanks a lot, Z. i've been searching and so far can't find any. should i email about the price in us and other info or do u want to discuss it via IM?

Zardon

Pm me your MSN handle or email me it. you have PM turned off, and I dont want to hack it on for you

CrapolaJola

Guys I updated the list with my WC parts please give them a look, as I need help with these the most. Thanks

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P2 X4 @ 3.6ghz, 4gb ddr3, SSD, 5870 @ 950/1250 + a 3ghz i5 lappy

Judas

If all you do is browse the net and talk on MSN... or course not..

but for any other use, it's absalutely excellent... depending on your system, mobo, whathave you, it's doubling your bandwidth, cutting your major bottleneck by half. It's like the cheap mans upgrade, comparable to sticking an extra stick of ram into your machine... very noticeable at anything you do.

Some boards even sport the ability to stick more then just 2 drives in raid 0.... it's worth taking a look at buddy, it's plesent to see load times drop dramatically. I couldn't imagine the wait for Spellforce to load

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Zelig

I'm going to asume you meant half the speed.


Like I said before, I had a raid 0 setup for a few months, using 2 120GB WD sata drives. The most difference I noticed anywhere was playing games such as Baldur's Gate and Icewind Dale, with large files and loading times. The loading times were about 20% faster there, which is pretty nice, but didn't justify the increased chance of (more) data loss for me.

And while theoretical bandwidth may be doubled, you're not going to see 100% speed gains anywhere, same as running dual channel ram.

Zardon

No I meant double the speed, my raid isnt half the speed of a single drive, would be pretty pointless.


Its actually quite unlike memory because memory is so much faster, gains in real world seem so much less. Hard drives on the other hand dont handle quite the throughput of memory so the gains are very noticeable. As I said I have done quite extensive testing on this, and ive seen 70-80% speed improvements on many areas of testing. I know these are syn benchmarking tools but they still bear some relevance under ideal situations

"As you can see from the drive rating above, all figures have increased with the index figure increasing from 38268 to 66283. A massive increase."

Again the results are very impressive with figures in single drive Western Digital Raptor - 80.8mb max, 37.1 min and average 50.6 mb/s increasing to Raid 0 figures of 98.7 Max, 54.0 Min and average 80.5mb. We are now seeing peak burst rates of well over 100 MB/s."

Id call an average increase of 30 mbs a second quite a substantial increase indeed.

Zelig

I know that dual channel memory and raid 0 isn't exactly comparable. I'd love it if dual channel memory would offer the same percentage of performance gains as raid 0 setups, but since faster ram is useful so much more often than faster hard drives (to a degree, excluding notebook drives and 5400 rpm drives), I remain unsold on raid 0.

Who knows though, maybe if I ever get enough money to buy 2 raptor drives, and try them out in a raid setup, they'll fare better than my last test.

Zardon

why remain unsold on it? when its faster and you can have faster ram AND faster hard drive speeds for accessing and saving? im not really sure why you are making such a strong anti raid 0 stance, its a wonderful inexpensive alternative and yes the risks are higher with two drives interleaving than one. but really most people I know who run raid 0 run that for the operating system and have another large single drive as a file drive. its a power user thing and something i see massive gains with in everyday use, especially when working with huge CMYK photoshop files or even load times on games.

You probably saw poor gains due to perhaps a poor allocation unit size or due to drives having 2 meg cache etc. the raptors LOVE raid !

Zelig

The drives had an 8MB cache, and allocation unit size was left at 4KB.

I don't mean to portray a strong anti raid 0 stance... I tried it, didn't feel it was worth keeping, and may try it again in the future.

CrapolaJola

Guys this is a thread about my upgrades not a discussion about Raid 0 Just send PMs to talk about raid, as I actually need input on this. Thanks

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P2 X4 @ 3.6ghz, 4gb ddr3, SSD, 5870 @ 950/1250 + a 3ghz i5 lappy