eggs420

I'm using a l7s7a2 with the 'real' bios, not cheapoman or anything.
My memory bandwidth has been clocking in very low compared to other systems - in aida32 it ranks just above pc133 and at the lower end of pc2100..My timings are 2.5-3-5-0CL 2CMD. I have a mismatched pair, one 512 one 256 running 2.5T. Memory is set to the second highest 'turbo/fast/safe/normal/etc' in bios. DDR is at 166mhz, CPU at 133 (xp2100) @ 11*whatever stock speeds. I'm not interested in overclocking my cpu much at all, rather smoothing out the memory timings or something to bring that up to par. The pair will not operate in 2T, though just the 512 in 2T did not yield any better results (within margin of error). Sandra reports: 1643/1584 int/float, 77% efficiency. Any suggestions? I have a slew of utils to view this or that, so if I omitted any information you would like please ask and I'll post screenshots/results/whatever. TIA.

Edit: Also, should great care be taken in using "setfsb"? It seems to work fine on my system, though I noticed the cpu clock going up with the FSB changes which scared me as I do not wish to/can afford better cooling for the CPU itself right now. Frying a CPU isn't worth bringing its performance up to par right now.. It has a stock HSF with some decent compound added, along with many case fans and excellent air flow.

Vampyromaniac

let me get this straight.
"2.5-3-5-0CL 2CMD" do you mean 2.5-3-5-10 ? and 2T CMD Rate?
and by the 2.5T and "will not operate in 2T", you mean the CAS Latency, right? not CMD rate.

just to clarify, the timing which is 2.0 or 2.5, is the CAS Latency (CL)
and the Command Rate (CMD) is what is written as 2T or 1T

So, OK assuming it's at: 2.5-3-5-10 2T @ 166MHz . . .
try setting it to 133MHz first of all, to match your FSB
and try setting the timings to 2.5-3-4... or 2.5-3-3...
see if it's sstable and how the bandwidth is.

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eggs420

How can I set exact timings? The only numerical value I can change is the CAS latency besides the clocks - Which is what I was speaking of. Will not operate at 2t CAS, but I tried the 512 at 2t CAS..No increase (or too small to matter).

The timings I posted came directly from Sandra, does that help identify which is which?

I matched the FSB and saw no increase but a small decrease (could have been error margin, again). I got brave and bumped the freqs up a bit on the cpu and ram since my post and it really didn't seem to give any gains.

To add to my confusion, the bios item for CAS latency is labeled with 2T 2.5T 3T. I've read and read on RAM timings and tweaking/OCing but it just hasn't sunk in.. I very much appreciate the response and hope you've got the patience/spare time to point me in the right direction, at least.

I think I'm going to look into a third party bios to attempt those timing changes in the meantime..It's been a while since I looked into bioses for this board.

Vampyromaniac

very well, I understand you now. I have an ECS board, and it's not very flexible
So, next to the CAS option in the BIOS, if there are no other timings listed, look for a "Performance" type option, something that can be set to Normal, Fast, Turbo or something like that. Try setting that to the next one up.

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eggs420

Ok..Here's what I'm set at thanks to CheepoMemTweak.
CL 2.5T
tRAS 5T
tRCD 3T
tRP 2T
fWR 1T
tRW Fast
tRC tRAS+tRP+2T
Refresh 15.6
CPU/DRAM bypass control enabled
DDR Read Latency Normal
fWTR 1T
MQA Early Push Fast
MQA Arbitration 2T
Write Promo Disabled
Read Promo Disabled
FQ MA #1 2T
FQ MA #2 2T
tRANK WW 2T

I'm thinking I need to track down a new bios though before I can attempt changing those values, as CheepoMemTweak doesn't seem to work 100%..
And I am on Turbo (or fast?) - The second from the fastest. The fastest one is not stable one bit, even with the 133/133 freqs. Cheepoman bios l7s7a2 have a decent rep that you know of? Can't seem to find the image itself yet, just endless forums of OC questions..

eggs420

Well damn, the other bioses don't even offer memory timing changes - But everyone else's benchmarks look so much higher. Open to additional ideas if anyone has any..

Vampyromaniac

I recommend using CPU-Z to display the timings: http://www.cpuid.com/cpuz.htm

I've "heard" of cheepo, but never used it, didn't really look into the matter enough.

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Vampyromaniac

looking at that read-out now, it seems your timings are in fact: 2.5-3-2-5
that's already pretty decent for a cheap motherboard. if you can't run at CAS 2.0, I don't know how you can inprove that.
maybe try raising the tRAS, but you don't have the controls for it in the BIOS.
I dunno what to say, if sync'ing the RAm to the FSB didn't help, and you can't change the timings, you're kinda stuck.

Btw, when you were benching these, you didn't have any programs loaded, right?
Nothing in the system tray either?

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eggs420

I have a fresh XP install I normally use for testing, but I find little to no diff between my 'usual' xp install's benches and the lightly tweaked 'clean' installation's. I have NIS, D-tools, Multires, and Powerstrip normally running, nothing else. It does seem I'm stuck, but it's so fragging annoying. I tried to raise the tRas with Cheepo's memtweak (made for l7s7) and I get an instant total lock-up, so I'll take it as I'm running as tight as possible..Ah well, thanks for the time and suggestions.
Do you have any suggestions for a value-priced (read: I'm cheap and broke) board that would perform better with pc2700/xp2100? I can't really afford any upgrades for a while, but a better $20-50 motherboard (hopefully with a better selection of bios options) could be doable.
I suppose I shouldn't complain too much, without AA/AF I get 5600 3dmarks (3dmark03 of course)..That's not THAT bad compared to like setups.

Vampyromaniac

1) I know know if any $50 motherboards would be tweakable
2) If it's just your memory timings you want to change, don't bother spending $50 on that.
3) what exactly is your goal? more memory bandwidth? it's not gonna really do much for you anyway, even if you ran at the full 2100/2100 in Sandra.

Just save up little by little, and you can get a new CPU and mobo eventually

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eggs420

Well for what I do with my system, it always feels like it's dragging its feet. It isn't slow responsive, but compared to similiar system's I've built for clients it really isn't as fast as it should be. I've had this board for a while now, so I know I've gotten my use out of it for sure. CPU is what I've been itching to upgrade, but with how little this board has impressed me in its time I really don't want to drop another CPU in it at all..I'd much rather go for board+cpu, trust me, but that doesn't look doable for quite a while..

It wouldn't be purely for the timings, but I know what you're saying. That's what I've told myself for at least the past six months, yet more pressing things always end up eating at that new-cpu money..I'll probably just grin and bear it for a while, then turn this sucker into a little OC test..I haven't OCed a cpu beyond tiny ups of fsb/etc since the 486dx/pent 1 days. So long as I have the funds to get a new rig I don't mind putting this one on the line..hehe. My system itself isn't bad - The bottleneck with my current usage HAS to be that FSB/memory, as my 9800pro is at XT speeds and non-cpu/ram benchmarks score me where I should be, or damned close..The ones focusing on memory performance and CPU are where I don't even come very close to others with my setup. Heck, my memory scores on par with an xp1800 w/pc2100. Horrid I tell ya.

Vampyromaniac

I know what you mean, man I've got an xp1800 right now (but gonna upgrade soon)
Maybe your current chipset just isn't a very good one, inefficient memory controller.
Let's face it, the SiS chipsets were not on par with the KT266A or KT333, so lower performance is to be expected.
And remember that on AthlonXP, memory bandwidth is limited by the lower of FSB or memory speed.
So, with a 133MHz FSB you basically do have the same theoretical bandwidth as if you had pc2100.
But who cares what memory benches say anyway? Did you get your PC more for running Sandra or playing games?

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eggs420

I sorta figured the lower FSB would affect the memory speed too (logicaly) but who knows these days. More recent games are suffering more than anything.. They are fine until many objects - bots or real players (15+) start moving around on screen, then things choke up majorly..If all I played was SP games I'd probably never notice it, but that so isn't the case. My last machine was an 1800+ on a k7s5a and I swear the increase in performance between the two was like nothing. Only in 3d games did I see any increase, and it was so not worth buying the 2100+ to replace the 1800. k7s5a died, and I decided to go with a new CPU with the l7s7 and 2100 was all I could afford at the time..Wanted to kick myself a month or two down the road, that's for sure. To top it off, the 1800 died a mysterious death sealed in a cpu case on a shelf. Ah well - If you don't mind straying OT a bit..Thanks again too for the advice on the bandwidth/timings issues.

What would you suggest for the best 'bang for the buck' for a gamer right now? I'm been leaning towards a xp2800-ish and an nforce2 based board..Wishing I could afford one of those 64's though! I've already got some decent pc2700 and I'd stick with that for now..Maybe swap for my parents' 3200..I should be OK on that even if I stay with the 2700 I think?

Vampyromaniac

yeah, bots are a real CPU-killer. and guess what ECS board I have, with my xp1800 k7s5a LOL

the xp2800 and nforce2 would be a fine choice, and pc2700 would get along just fine with it.

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eggs420

Good to hear, thanks (again). I loved that k7s5a..broke it due to a tiny mini-atx case and a retarded really long cd burner I was testing for someone..My supplier had just sold out his stock of k7s5a's and moved on to l7s7a2's. The k7s5a+1800 was the best upgrade I ever made, coming from a 1ghz celeron. I didn't expect that large of a boost, but boy they were worlds apart in comparison.

Vampyromaniac

no prob
yeah, I came from a 600MHz pentium III, quite a change hehe

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pr0digal jenius

ECS makes a hell of a board....and the AXP 1800s rocked in their day

i had a ECS K7VTA v2.0 with PC2100 and an AXP 1800+ for 3 years...never failed me once (until i accidentally stuck a screwdriver through the cpu fan )

PS - let's not forget it hit almost 1.8GHz on air

eggs420

Replaced that beastly board and chip with an a64 2800+ and Chaintech vnf3-250. Total shipped: $230. Ahhhh...MUCH MUCH better!!!

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