About water cooling... VERY IN DEPTH QUESTION

merlinxi · Aug 22, 2004, 05:57 AM

My friend had an intersting theory. Why not take a water block, cut or saw out (like a little square piece) whatever you prefer the part where it goes on top of the pentium. Therefore the water will directly touch the chip (of course the sides are all sealed up (with silicon)). We believe that it will get much better cooling power. Is this true, to any experienced water cooling modders out there. Liquid contact is better at heat transfer, then any solid sais my friend. So if your water cooling metal and then "metal cooling" the chip, then your right back to where you started with using solids as your heat transfering agent. What's the point of the liquid, all you are getting is the same cooled metal with the same poor heat transfer properties.

so in theory, if you didnt even cool the liquid, but because it is great at absorbing heat, even room temperature liquids would not allow the chip to overheat given adequate circulation provided.

My friends ending statement:
The goal is to take heat away from the chip, not make the worlds coldest heat sink.

Merlin

Nacht · Aug 22, 2004, 07:14 AM

idk, that seems dangerous. the point of the copper plate is to provide more surface area for the processor...and it is such a great conductor that i doubt having direct contact would actually cool it any better.

Asmoday · Aug 22, 2004, 07:45 AM

Well...that's nothing new really, it has been done before...it is called direct die cooling...there is a pretty cool article about it here: Spode's Abode

pr0digal jenius · Aug 23, 2004, 01:36 AM

a much less risky approach would be to replace the copper plate with a better conductor, such as gold

Nacht · Aug 23, 2004, 02:50 AM

lol...solid gold heatsink...got some bling on the computer now!

StuBee · Aug 23, 2004, 01:57 PM

a computer with bling... how cool would that be

WisMerHill · Sep 1, 2004, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pr0digal jenius

a much less risky approach would be to replace the copper plate with a better conductor, such as gold

Uhhhh guys....

Gold is actually a bad heat conductor... you don't wanna use gold. If you need a better conducting material take silver which has way better conductive properties that gold.
I'm an eductated gold & silversmith so i can know

we (me and a friend) even designed a silver&copper&plexi waterblock, the copper was used to keep prices low. If i can find a pic when i come home i'll post it
But anyhow, don't use gold, not all that shines is better

Geminiwave · Sep 1, 2004, 06:10 PM

odd...it had my post up and then it was gone. wonder if a mod deleted it (i dont see why though)

anyway NL][WisMerHill is correct. Gold=not very good heat conduction.

its better electical conductivity but worse heat.

btw after reading that article in that link in this thread...i have one thing to say: A SUNNY-D BOTTLE?! JEEZ!! THAT GUY IS INSANE! (my hero...but INSANE)

GutterPunk · Sep 1, 2004, 11:42 PM

i could see it on a prescott melting the sunny D bottle lol

thats pretty cool, seems risky i wouldnt try it as im still skeptical about watercooling in the first place

Geminiwave · Sep 2, 2004, 12:00 AM

well see what you're suppose to do is spray your entire computer down with this waterprofing stuff...then you can dump water into it and it wont get hurt(THG demonstraited this well awhile ago) even so, Im alittle bit worried about watercooling myself, but not because of the water. I'm worried because of the lack of fans. The CPU, GPU, and NB arent the only things producing heat. EVERYTHING is making heat and it all needs airflow. Water cooling does not provide this airflow(even prohibits it really)

G@MeBoY · Sep 2, 2004, 01:38 AM

this has indeed been done before. Few issues:

1) Thermal capacity of watter IS greater than of copper, but you can't put as much watter on CPU as you can copper

2) watter will absorbe heat more quickly than cooper and will heat up in very short time. Large copper block can take up more temperature while remaining realtivly cold, persuming you are cooling it

3) corrosion will eventualy appear on cpu die if you put watter directly on it, we dont want that to happen now do we ?

4)Gold is good for cooling but has less thermal capacity than copper and will get very hot in short time.

5) silver is VERY corrosive ! sole air makes it corrode over time. Under watter, especially if there are other metals combined (do not do this ! copper and aluminium combination is probably the worst you can do) in watter system electro corrosion will occur very quickly making you clean the WB very offten, which is a BIG NAG !

Geminiwave · Sep 2, 2004, 03:45 AM

silver is good if you get ultra pure water and make sure to get that anti coorisve crud into your tubes.

even so, copper is just fine really.

WisMerHill · Sep 3, 2004, 09:05 AM

Guys,

if you want to use silver there's really only one way to go : rhodinize it (if thats spelled allright?) , what i mean is this: whenever silver cannot oxidate you must plate it with a thin layer of rhodium, kinda like a goldplated ring.
It's a commonly used technique in the jewelery bussiness, and it's what we did for the waterblock we made.
This basicly eliminates corrosion, of the silver only offcourse, you still have to use the pure water to counter electic conductivity and alge forming.

Geminiwave · Sep 3, 2004, 06:07 PM

Mmmm...alge....yummmmmmmmmmmmm

Gotta love that stuff growing in your computer, neh?

Aug 22, 2004, 05:57 AM	#1
merlinxi The Paranoid Cook Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: New Jersey Posts: 655 Rep Power: 0	About water cooling... VERY IN DEPTH QUESTION My friend had an intersting theory. Why not take a water block, cut or saw out (like a little square piece) whatever you prefer the part where it goes on top of the pentium. Therefore the water will directly touch the chip (of course the sides are all sealed up (with silicon)). We believe that it will get much better cooling power. Is this true, to any experienced water cooling modders out there. Liquid contact is better at heat transfer, then any solid sais my friend. So if your water cooling metal and then "metal cooling" the chip, then your right back to where you started with using solids as your heat transfering agent. What's the point of the liquid, all you are getting is the same cooled metal with the same poor heat transfer properties. so in theory, if you didnt even cool the liquid, but because it is great at absorbing heat, even room temperature liquids would not allow the chip to overheat given adequate circulation provided. My friends ending statement: The goal is to take heat away from the chip, not make the worlds coldest heat sink. Merlin __________________ 700 Watt Toughpower Cable Management Power supply -- Asus P55 LE Motherboard -- Intel Core i7 860 2.8GHZ Quad Core -- 6Gb Dominator Ram DD3 8 Latency Timings -- Windows 7 64bit -- Gigabyte GTX470 Superclocked Video Card -- 1.5 TB Hard drive, 1TB hard drive, 250GB Hard drive, and a partridge in a pear tree.

Aug 22, 2004, 07:45 AM	#3
Asmoday Demonic Join Date: May 2002 Location: In the cold, dark north... Posts: 5,198 Rep Power: 92 System Specs	Well...that's nothing new really, it has been done before...it is called direct die cooling...there is a pretty cool article about it here: Spode's Abode __________________ How You can help Hardwareheaven by using Digg

Aug 23, 2004, 01:57 PM	#6
StuBee lurker Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Under a small box in the corner Posts: 356 Rep Power: 67 System Specs	a computer with bling... how cool would that be __________________ <-- Gaming in system specs Consoles: Xbox 360 (old white stylee thing), PS3. Storage - Qnap TS-210 - Great wee thing Laptops:- 2.2Ghz, 4Gb Macbook & 2.0Ghz i7 (Sandy bridge), 4Gb, 256Mb gfx, Hi-res screen Macbook Pro

Sep 1, 2004, 06:10 PM	#8
Geminiwave I Have lovely Breasts Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: In the closet... Posts: 5,395 Rep Power: 64	odd...it had my post up and then it was gone. wonder if a mod deleted it (i dont see why though) anyway NL][WisMerHill is correct. Gold=not very good heat conduction. its better electical conductivity but worse heat. btw after reading that article in that link in this thread...i have one thing to say: A SUNNY-D BOTTLE?! JEEZ!! THAT GUY IS INSANE! (my hero...but INSANE) __________________

Sep 1, 2004, 11:42 PM	#9
GutterPunk I = Greatest Dood Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Nebraska Posts: 5,949 Rep Power: 71	i could see it on a prescott melting the sunny D bottle lol thats pretty cool, seems risky i wouldnt try it as im still skeptical about watercooling in the first place __________________ Rock On \m/ Thank you Mousey for the Sig! --------------- Intel Core2Duo E6660 (3.4GHZ) ~ Tuniq Tower 120 ~ Enermax Galaxy 1000W ~ Corsair Dominator @ 1090MHZ 5-5-5-15 (OCZ XTC Modded Cooler)~ EVGA 8800GTX W/ HR-03 Plus 120MM ~ Asus DVD-RW LiteScribe ~ LG DVD-RW ~ Corsair Voyager 2GB ReadyBoost Drive ~ Vantec Nexus Fan Controller ~ ThermalTake Armor 25CM fan ~ Personal Finance Blog: Dent Your Debt

Aug 22, 2004, 07:14 AM	#2
Nacht ein Krieger Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Clemson Uni Posts: 3,127 Rep Power: 0	idk, that seems dangerous. the point of the copper plate is to provide more surface area for the processor...and it is such a great conductor that i doubt having direct contact would actually cool it any better.

Aug 23, 2004, 01:36 AM	#4
pr0digal jenius Delete Me Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 14,648 Rep Power: 0	a much less risky approach would be to replace the copper plate with a better conductor, such as gold

Aug 23, 2004, 02:50 AM	#5
Nacht ein Krieger Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Clemson Uni Posts: 3,127 Rep Power: 0	lol...solid gold heatsink...got some bling on the computer now!

Sep 2, 2004, 12:00 AM	#10
Geminiwave I Have lovely Breasts Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: In the closet... Posts: 5,395 Rep Power: 64	well see what you're suppose to do is spray your entire computer down with this waterprofing stuff...then you can dump water into it and it wont get hurt(THG demonstraited this well awhile ago) even so, Im alittle bit worried about watercooling myself, but not because of the water. I'm worried because of the lack of fans. The CPU, GPU, and NB arent the only things producing heat. EVERYTHING is making heat and it all needs airflow. Water cooling does not provide this airflow(even prohibits it really) __________________

Sep 2, 2004, 01:38 AM	#11
G@MeBoY makes your mouse tremmble! Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Serbia,Livingroom Posts: 247 Rep Power: 0	this has indeed been done before. Few issues: 1) Thermal capacity of watter IS greater than of copper, but you can't put as much watter on CPU as you can copper 2) watter will absorbe heat more quickly than cooper and will heat up in very short time. Large copper block can take up more temperature while remaining realtivly cold, persuming you are cooling it 3) corrosion will eventualy appear on cpu die if you put watter directly on it, we dont want that to happen now do we ? 4)Gold is good for cooling but has less thermal capacity than copper and will get very hot in short time. 5) silver is VERY corrosive ! sole air makes it corrode over time. Under watter, especially if there are other metals combined (do not do this ! copper and aluminium combination is probably the worst you can do) in watter system electro corrosion will occur very quickly making you clean the WB very offten, which is a BIG NAG ! __________________ -= G@MeBoY =- ::Full color with 3DNOW! tech:: XP2000+ thoroughbred @ 10x230FSB - watter cooled by home made sistem - EpoX RDA3I - ASUS V9950SE/Td @470/820 - 2x256 DDR400 V-Data - !Live Player - 80GB Maxtor DiamondMax9+7200rpm - Tagan TG-380 black PSU - chieftek Matrix case - WinXP SP1

Sep 2, 2004, 03:45 AM	#12
Geminiwave I Have lovely Breasts Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: In the closet... Posts: 5,395 Rep Power: 64	silver is good if you get ultra pure water and make sure to get that anti coorisve crud into your tubes. even so, copper is just fine really. __________________

Sep 3, 2004, 09:05 AM	#13
WisMerHill DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: Netherlands Posts: 468 Rep Power: 0	Guys, if you want to use silver there's really only one way to go : rhodinize it (if thats spelled allright?) , what i mean is this: whenever silver cannot oxidate you must plate it with a thin layer of rhodium, kinda like a goldplated ring. It's a commonly used technique in the jewelery bussiness, and it's what we did for the waterblock we made. This basicly eliminates corrosion, of the silver only offcourse, you still have to use the pure water to counter electic conductivity and alge forming. __________________ [color=sandybrown][color=white] [/color] [color=white][color=white]M[/color][color=white]y Computer[/color]: [/color][color=white]3DMark2001[/color][color=white] - [/color][color=white]3Dmark2003[/color][color=white] - [/color][color=white]3DMark200[/color][color=white]5[/color][color=white] - [/color][color=white]PCMark2004[/color][/color]

Sep 3, 2004, 06:07 PM	#14
Geminiwave I Have lovely Breasts Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: In the closet... Posts: 5,395 Rep Power: 64	Mmmm...alge....yummmmmmmmmmmmm Gotta love that stuff growing in your computer, neh? __________________