Help me OC my AMD 3000+ Winchester

Espique · Nov 13, 2004, 11:09 AM

Hi,

I recently upgraded my rusty XP 2200+ to an all new and shiny 939 motherboard (MSI K8N Neo2 Plat.) and AMD Athlon 64 3000+ (90 nm Winchester). While upgrading these, I kept my original Kingston DDR266 Ram.

With that combination I was able to overclock the CPU to 2.6 Ghz easily, while having set the memory to 140 Mhz (by using dividers set to DDR100). Great stuff, but I wanted more so I also bought some new (and frankly: cheap) DDR400 memory (TwinMOS 512 Twin.x2). And that'S where my problem starts:

That memory doesn't seem to like me. I have set it to DDR333 (166 Mhz) and can not go over 2250 Mhz CPU Clock now. Going higher results in total system instability, crashes and system resets. Strangly enough, setting the memory further down to DDR266 (133 Mhz) it gets worse.

What could be my problem here? I know it must be the memory but I am sure this can be tweaked somehow. Maybe I am using too much/less voltage on the RAM (I read some RAM doesn't like increasing the voltage)? Or I will need to have some other timing settings, but I have no idea of those.

So some help would be greatly appreciated. My current settings:

RAM: 166 Mhz, 1T, CAL 2.5, rest is auto
RAM Voltage: 1.7
HTT: 250
HT: 3x
Multiplier: 9x

Let me know if you need more details.

Thanks!

mkk · Nov 13, 2004, 04:45 PM

Could possibly be that the new RAM doesn't cope as well with the timing values. Try 2T command and CAS 3.0 and see if it helps compared to your current 1T and 2.5.

Espique · Nov 13, 2004, 04:58 PM

thanks. Tried using CAS 3.0 but then the machine does not POST. Setting 2T didn't help.....

zerodamage · Nov 13, 2004, 06:33 PM

I've noticed with the MSI boards that it is best to let the BIOS determine the RAM timings and to also keep any "Agressive Timings" features in the bios disabled.

Espique · Nov 13, 2004, 06:44 PM

yeah that's what I have here. Most stuff is on auto and aggressive timings as well as auto overclocking is off....

Vampyromaniac · Nov 13, 2004, 08:16 PM

are you sure your RAM voltage is at 1.7v? because it should be at least 2.5v
also, make sure your AGP/PCI are set to 66/33 MHz
it could be that the motherboard is picky with that RAM . . . .

Espique · Nov 13, 2004, 10:29 PM

nah of course the voltage is at 2.x and not 1.x. that was just a typo. AGP/PCI are locked as well.

dipstick · Nov 14, 2004, 07:39 PM

Try raising the tRCD memory setting to 3 or 4.

davidnsibs · Nov 14, 2004, 08:00 PM

So your RAM setting is at 166, and HTT at 250. Is my Math correct here:

(250/200)*166 = 1.25*166 = 207.5, so your DDR 400 RAM is running at DDR 415 ... not an amazing overclock, but an overclock all the same.

I know you said you tried the RAM at the 133 setting, but have another go maybe because this would allow you (running the RAM @ the 207.5 found previously):

(207.5/133)*200 = 1.56*200 = 312HTT

So at 312 HTT you could have a cpu at 312*9 = 2808, ok your CPU will never hack that without some liquid nitrogen and lots of voltage adjustment, but you see my point, try relaxing the memory setting again (staying at SPD timings), it doesnt make sence that it makes the situation worse

Espique · Nov 14, 2004, 08:37 PM

@davidnsibs:

I would love to put the RAM down to 133 to get the HTT up, but no matter what I try: as soon as I have my memory at 133 and put the HTT above 220, the machine does not POST. Ain't that rediculous?

I can set the memory down to 100 but then I will have very slow memory, even if I push the HTT above 280.

The point is: why doesn't my memory like the 133 mhz? Might this be a BIOS issue?

On a sidenote: Can you guys recommend a budget memory to fit this situation? I think I am going to try and return these sticks.

davidnsibs · Nov 14, 2004, 09:12 PM

alright, ive been having a little look on msi's website and might be able to suggest something. there are reccommended slots to use for your RAM, especially if its double sided (which i guess it will be if its value 512mb ddr400). see this webpage:

http://www.msi.com.tw/program/produc...il.php?UID=572

now notice if you use slots 1 and 2 then you can run @ ddr400, but use slots 2 and 3 and can only use ddr333, maybe youve got yours in 2 and 3, so maybe try to swap them to 1 and 2 instead. if not, sorry, thats my best guess :-) oh i suppose youve got the latest bios installed yeah?

EDIT: oops sorry got the wrong socket, its this page:

http://www.msi.com.tw/program/produc...il.php?UID=607

so you want slots 1 and 2 _or_ 3 and 4 but _not_ 1 and 3

dipstick · Nov 14, 2004, 09:33 PM

If you're going to exchange try to get some memory from Corsair or OCZ. It seems the board just doesn't like to OC your memory

Espique · Nov 14, 2004, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidnsibs

so you want slots 1 and 2 _or_ 3 and 4 but _not_ 1 and 3

yep and thanks for looking that up. you are right, the memory is actually two-sided. but I am running it in slots 1 and 2. and it's actually not ddr400 that's causing the problem, it's ddr266 (to which I want to set it to be able to push HTT and raise the memory clock with it).

BIOS is the latest beta...

this is so odd it can only be a bug I guess. I don't see any reason why I would not be able to get the RAM working at ddr266.

Espique · Nov 14, 2004, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dipstick

If you're going to exchange try to get some memory from Corsair or OCZ. It seems the board just doesn't like to OC your memory

it does OC the memory fine in ddr400 mode. not much, but it does. I am having problems to underclock it to something like 180 mhz or so by using a divider (133 mhz).

this is wierd.

dipstick · Nov 15, 2004, 03:48 AM

If you want to OC the HTT make sure you are setting up the cpu voltage correctly. Set cpu voltage to 1.4v and set the Over Hammer VID setting to +10%. If you dont want to give the cpu that much voltage leave the VID at +10% and drop the cpu voltage to 1.3v. Having this at +10% is very important for OCing the htt and if you haven't set it like this its probably not your mem holding you back. Give it a shot.

Espique · Nov 15, 2004, 10:28 AM

@dipstick

I am already running the CPU with 1.550 +5% and also tried higher settings. The thing is, with my older (slower DDR266) Ram I was able to push the HTT to 280 easily. I basically kept the same settings and only replaced the old RAM with newer (supposed to be faster DDR400) Ram and the system started spitting it back at me.

davidnsibs · Nov 15, 2004, 10:45 AM

just noticed your HT freq setting. your board is rated at 1000 (200*5) but your only using a multi of 3, so having a ht of 250*3 = 750. surely you could do 250*4 = 1000 and have a performance boost

Espique · Nov 15, 2004, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidnsibs

just noticed your HT freq setting. your board is rated at 1000 (200*5) but your only using a multi of 3, so having a ht of 250*3 = 750. surely you could do 250*4 = 1000 and have a performance boost

very good point! :-) As long as I can't get my HTT any higher, I am going to use that. Eventually I am going to replace my RAM though.

CrapolaJola · Nov 15, 2004, 04:23 PM

Higher HT frequency doesn't increase performance, sorry to break it to ya. A few thigns you could try, set the AGP Frequency to 67mhz, most people don't realize that the locks aren't enabled on the neo baord unless you set the AGP frequency to 67. Either buy some new ram, I'd reccomend find some old BH-5 or get these new TCCD chips which are pretty bitchin. All the new stuff the new Kingston ultra low latency, OCZ PC3200EL Rev. 2, PQI 3200, etc. What heatsink/fan you using on your winchester?

Espique · Nov 15, 2004, 06:23 PM

thanks crapola. The AGP is set to 67. I think the RAM is crap. Going to replace it and I am not going to spend a fortune on those ultra low latency chips. All I want is stable RAM at around 200 Mhz.

CrapolaJola · Nov 19, 2004, 03:15 AM

Here's my reccomendation if jsut want stable DDR400 (if you OC and use a diveder) buy the older Corsair XMS PC3200. They're CH-5 sticks I believe and can do 2-3-2-5 timings (I have these), now they're cheap I've seen them for $100 for 512mb, great performance and timings for the price.

Espique · Nov 19, 2004, 11:23 AM

ok guys, thanks for all your recommendations. I trashed that TwinMOS memory and got my self some high speed PQI PC3200 Turbo (rated 2-2-2-5 at DDR400). I am running these babies without any divider at a 1:1 ratio at 267 Mhz (4-4-8, but I am trying to lower that). Rock solid stable. Now I can virtually fly through Half-Life 2.

Those sticks were not exactly cheap though. It's probably the most expensive RAM I ever bought. Paid 260 Euros for 1 Gig

Anyways, thanks to all! Take care.

Nov 13, 2004, 11:09 AM	#1
Espique DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 26 Rep Power: 0	Help me OC my AMD 3000+ Winchester Hi, I recently upgraded my rusty XP 2200+ to an all new and shiny 939 motherboard (MSI K8N Neo2 Plat.) and AMD Athlon 64 3000+ (90 nm Winchester). While upgrading these, I kept my original Kingston DDR266 Ram. With that combination I was able to overclock the CPU to 2.6 Ghz easily, while having set the memory to 140 Mhz (by using dividers set to DDR100). Great stuff, but I wanted more so I also bought some new (and frankly: cheap) DDR400 memory (TwinMOS 512 Twin.x2). And that'S where my problem starts: That memory doesn't seem to like me. I have set it to DDR333 (166 Mhz) and can not go over 2250 Mhz CPU Clock now. Going higher results in total system instability, crashes and system resets. Strangly enough, setting the memory further down to DDR266 (133 Mhz) it gets worse. What could be my problem here? I know it must be the memory but I am sure this can be tweaked somehow. Maybe I am using too much/less voltage on the RAM (I read some RAM doesn't like increasing the voltage)? Or I will need to have some other timing settings, but I have no idea of those. So some help would be greatly appreciated. My current settings: RAM: 166 Mhz, 1T, CAL 2.5, rest is auto RAM Voltage: 1.7 HTT: 250 HT: 3x Multiplier: 9x Let me know if you need more details. Thanks!

Nov 13, 2004, 08:16 PM	#6
Vampyromaniac confutatis maledictis Join Date: May 2002 Location: somewhere dark Posts: 5,974 Rep Power: 77 System Specs	are you sure your RAM voltage is at 1.7v? because it should be at least 2.5v also, make sure your AGP/PCI are set to 66/33 MHz it could be that the motherboard is picky with that RAM . . . . __________________ *Digitalis 3.3* Athlon 64 3000 // ASUS K8V SE Deluxe // 1024MB PC3200 (2-2-2-10 1T) ATI All-In-Wonder 9700 Pro // 20" Dell 2005FPW (DVI) M-Audio Revo 7.1 + Philips Acoustic Edge // Klipsch ProMedia 2.1 320/16 Western Digital WD3200KS + 120/8 Seagate 7200.7 NEC ND-3550A 16x DVD±RW + Lite-On 52x24x CD-RW Antec Sonata case // 480W Antec TruePower personal bests \|\| Aq'3: 46796 \| 3D'01: 20461 \| 3D'03: 6336 \| 3D'05: 2677 \| PC'04: 4605 \| PC'02: 7691,9092,1250

Nov 14, 2004, 08:00 PM	#9
davidnsibs 9500pro Forever Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Bath, UK Posts: 273 Rep Power: 0	So your RAM setting is at 166, and HTT at 250. Is my Math correct here: (250/200)166 = 1.25166 = 207.5, so your DDR 400 RAM is running at DDR 415 ... not an amazing overclock, but an overclock all the same. I know you said you tried the RAM at the 133 setting, but have another go maybe because this would allow you (running the RAM @ the 207.5 found previously): (207.5/133)200 = 1.56200 = 312HTT So at 312 HTT you could have a cpu at 312*9 = 2808, ok your CPU will never hack that without some liquid nitrogen and lots of voltage adjustment, but you see my point, try relaxing the memory setting again (staying at SPD timings), it doesnt make sence that it makes the situation worse __________________ Goodbye 9500pro, you've been a faithful servant through Half life, Deus Ex, Unreal 2, Max Payne 1+2, Nolf 1+2, CoD, Far Cry, Civ IV, F.E.A.R and many more

Nov 14, 2004, 09:12 PM	#11
davidnsibs 9500pro Forever Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Bath, UK Posts: 273 Rep Power: 0	alright, ive been having a little look on msi's website and might be able to suggest something. there are reccommended slots to use for your RAM, especially if its double sided (which i guess it will be if its value 512mb ddr400). see this webpage: http://www.msi.com.tw/program/produc...il.php?UID=572 now notice if you use slots 1 and 2 then you can run @ ddr400, but use slots 2 and 3 and can only use ddr333, maybe youve got yours in 2 and 3, so maybe try to swap them to 1 and 2 instead. if not, sorry, thats my best guess :-) oh i suppose youve got the latest bios installed yeah? EDIT: oops sorry got the wrong socket, its this page: http://www.msi.com.tw/program/produc...il.php?UID=607 so you want slots 1 and 2 _or_ 3 and 4 but _not_ 1 and 3 __________________ Goodbye 9500pro, you've been a faithful servant through Half life, Deus Ex, Unreal 2, Max Payne 1+2, Nolf 1+2, CoD, Far Cry, Civ IV, F.E.A.R and many more

Nov 15, 2004, 10:45 AM	#17
davidnsibs 9500pro Forever Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Bath, UK Posts: 273 Rep Power: 0	just noticed your HT freq setting. your board is rated at 1000 (2005) but your only using a multi of 3, so having a ht of 2503 = 750. surely you could do 250*4 = 1000 and have a performance boost __________________ Goodbye 9500pro, you've been a faithful servant through Half life, Deus Ex, Unreal 2, Max Payne 1+2, Nolf 1+2, CoD, Far Cry, Civ IV, F.E.A.R and many more

Nov 13, 2004, 04:45 PM	#2
mkk Cthulhu/Dagon 2012 Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Gefle, Sweden Posts: 4,495 Rep Power: 132 System Specs	Could possibly be that the new RAM doesn't cope as well with the timing values. Try 2T command and CAS 3.0 and see if it helps compared to your current 1T and 2.5.

Nov 13, 2004, 04:58 PM	Thread Starter #3
Espique DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 26 Rep Power: 0	thanks. Tried using CAS 3.0 but then the machine does not POST. Setting 2T didn't help.....

Nov 13, 2004, 06:33 PM	#4
zerodamage HardwareHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: Virginia, USA Posts: 3,478 Rep Power: 0 System Specs	I've noticed with the MSI boards that it is best to let the BIOS determine the RAM timings and to also keep any "Agressive Timings" features in the bios disabled.

Nov 13, 2004, 06:44 PM	Thread Starter #5
Espique DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 26 Rep Power: 0	yeah that's what I have here. Most stuff is on auto and aggressive timings as well as auto overclocking is off....

Nov 13, 2004, 10:29 PM	Thread Starter #7
Espique DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 26 Rep Power: 0	nah of course the voltage is at 2.x and not 1.x. that was just a typo. AGP/PCI are locked as well.

Nov 14, 2004, 07:39 PM	#8
dipstick HardwareHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: USA Posts: 3,609 Rep Power: 71 System Specs	Try raising the tRCD memory setting to 3 or 4.

Nov 14, 2004, 08:37 PM	Thread Starter #10
Espique DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 26 Rep Power: 0	@davidnsibs: I would love to put the RAM down to 133 to get the HTT up, but no matter what I try: as soon as I have my memory at 133 and put the HTT above 220, the machine does not POST. Ain't that rediculous? I can set the memory down to 100 but then I will have very slow memory, even if I push the HTT above 280. The point is: why doesn't my memory like the 133 mhz? Might this be a BIOS issue? On a sidenote: Can you guys recommend a budget memory to fit this situation? I think I am going to try and return these sticks.

Nov 14, 2004, 09:33 PM	#12
dipstick HardwareHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: USA Posts: 3,609 Rep Power: 71 System Specs	If you're going to exchange try to get some memory from Corsair or OCZ. It seems the board just doesn't like to OC your memory

Nov 15, 2004, 03:48 AM	#15
dipstick HardwareHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: USA Posts: 3,609 Rep Power: 71 System Specs	If you want to OC the HTT make sure you are setting up the cpu voltage correctly. Set cpu voltage to 1.4v and set the Over Hammer VID setting to +10%. If you dont want to give the cpu that much voltage leave the VID at +10% and drop the cpu voltage to 1.3v. Having this at +10% is very important for OCing the htt and if you haven't set it like this its probably not your mem holding you back. Give it a shot.

Nov 15, 2004, 10:28 AM	Thread Starter #16
Espique DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 26 Rep Power: 0	@dipstick I am already running the CPU with 1.550 +5% and also tried higher settings. The thing is, with my older (slower DDR266) Ram I was able to push the HTT to 280 easily. I basically kept the same settings and only replaced the old RAM with newer (supposed to be faster DDR400) Ram and the system started spitting it back at me.

Nov 15, 2004, 04:23 PM	#19
CrapolaJola The Great DaK Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 317 Rep Power: 0	Higher HT frequency doesn't increase performance, sorry to break it to ya. A few thigns you could try, set the AGP Frequency to 67mhz, most people don't realize that the locks aren't enabled on the neo baord unless you set the AGP frequency to 67. Either buy some new ram, I'd reccomend find some old BH-5 or get these new TCCD chips which are pretty bitchin. All the new stuff the new Kingston ultra low latency, OCZ PC3200EL Rev. 2, PQI 3200, etc. What heatsink/fan you using on your winchester? __________________ P2 X4 @ 3.6ghz, 4gb ddr3, SSD, 5870 @ 950/1250 + a 3ghz i5 lappy

Nov 15, 2004, 06:23 PM	Thread Starter #20
Espique DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 26 Rep Power: 0	thanks crapola. The AGP is set to 67. I think the RAM is crap. Going to replace it and I am not going to spend a fortune on those ultra low latency chips. All I want is stable RAM at around 200 Mhz.

Nov 19, 2004, 03:15 AM	#21
CrapolaJola The Great DaK Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 317 Rep Power: 0	Here's my reccomendation if jsut want stable DDR400 (if you OC and use a diveder) buy the older Corsair XMS PC3200. They're CH-5 sticks I believe and can do 2-3-2-5 timings (I have these), now they're cheap I've seen them for $100 for 512mb, great performance and timings for the price. __________________ P2 X4 @ 3.6ghz, 4gb ddr3, SSD, 5870 @ 950/1250 + a 3ghz i5 lappy

Nov 19, 2004, 11:23 AM	Thread Starter #22
Espique DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 26 Rep Power: 0	ok guys, thanks for all your recommendations. I trashed that TwinMOS memory and got my self some high speed PQI PC3200 Turbo (rated 2-2-2-5 at DDR400). I am running these babies without any divider at a 1:1 ratio at 267 Mhz (4-4-8, but I am trying to lower that). Rock solid stable. Now I can virtually fly through Half-Life 2. Those sticks were not exactly cheap though. It's probably the most expensive RAM I ever bought. Paid 260 Euros for 1 Gig Anyways, thanks to all! Take care.