RAM upgrade needed to OC?

Vaquel · Nov 27, 2004, 08:42 PM

My current system is in my sig, I also run a 450 W PSU and arctic silver on the CPU. Total cooling running at stock speeds (current RAM underclocked to 166 to match the CPU) is 20/42, so I have plenty of room there. My 2600+ is locked, however, so it's 200 fsb CPU/RAM or bust, and when I try that, I get through the memory check, the devices check and then when Windows tries to load I lose video to the monitor and have to cold boot to BIOS. In the few moments I see it loading it's reading my CPU as a 3200+ and my memory at 200 fsb, so everything looks alright, but I'm wondering if my lack of low-latency RAM is bottlenecking during the Windows loading.

Any ideas or suggestions?

If it is just my RAM, I am looking at 512 x 2 low-latency RAM by Mushkin or Corsair XMS, perhaps, which looks to run around $250. That's why I want to make sure it's just the RAM if possible before I buy.

Lowfat · Nov 27, 2004, 09:16 PM

your ram is DDR400 so thats not the problem more than likely.

markus82 · Nov 27, 2004, 09:51 PM

Perhaps a higher Vcore could help you. Try to set the FSB to anything between 166 and 200Mhz.

Judas · Nov 27, 2004, 10:48 PM

...also make sure your PCI bus isn't being overclocked either... the ratio should be 1:3:6 (FSB:AGP:PCI)

I think it's your Vcore on the cpu preventing you from loading windows.... try up it a bit..... try small increments.. keeping an eye on the temperature.....

Vaquel · Nov 28, 2004, 08:38 AM

Okay a few details first:

- I can't go higher than 166 unless I go 200, since the CPU is locked it doesn't allow increments (or my mobo BIOS 1009 doesn't, either or).

- I was told ValueRam wasn't great for overclocking, as the timings have to be 3-3-3-8 @ 200 fsb, (2.5-3-3-7 @ 166 fsb).

- My VCore is set to 1.7 when I attempt (up from 1.65) and I have been told it isn't wise to go above that for risk reasons (I have great air-cooling but I'm more worried about the mechanical stress).

- I'm not OC'ing the video card at all.

Can you explain the ratio better - 1 fsb : 3 AGP : 6 PCI

From all I can tell, I can only change the fsb and multiplier of my CPU (stock 166 x 11.5) OC'd to 200 x 11.5 (tried x 10, x 10.5, with worse results: no load at all). I can also change the fsb of my RAM, and the timings if I go User Defined as opposed to Auto, Optimal or Aggressive. Since I have ValueRam I see no point in manually upping the timings, the quality isn't there.

I'll try to find settings for AGP and PCI and set this ratio the way I think you mean it if it's there... maybe go as far as 1.75 VCore and hope I get a boot... otherwise I'm right back here... waiting and hoping.

Vaquel · Nov 28, 2004, 08:51 AM

Alright, I think the only thing I changed from before was upping the VCore to 1.725, which makes me a little nervous when my Probe reports fluctuations up to 1.76.

The CPU temp only bumped a couple degrees on load, sitting at ~36/20 now, and I was wrong before, it was ~32/20. I probably just closed a 3D app when I got the 40/20 reading earlier. My System reports a 2.31 ghz instead of the 1.92 ghz I was seeing at stock.

Time to play Halo full gfx and see what we see... thanks in advance if it holds.

CDsDontBurn · Nov 28, 2004, 08:57 AM

ok, with DDR3200 you can OC your CPU no problem despite the timings. As judas said, up your vCore. I wouldn't go past 1.85v on a barton on air. In your BIOS, set your ram to manual adjust. Then that way you can test in 1-5Mhz increases to see how high your CPU can go before you get system instability (increase Vcore when this happens).

your barton 2600 has it's mult. superlocked, so don't even bother with unlocking that madness, concentrate on your FSB instead. Also, like previously stated, make sure that your AGP/PCI buses are locked, if they are not, then you will experience system instability as well. Keep your FSB/RAM timings syncronous......meaning, if your have your FSB @ 166, keep your ram running at 166 as well. You get better performance like that.

Memory timings have little to do with overclocking. Your kingston value ram does you plenty well. The only thing that memory timings do is just give you more FPS in games or benchmarks pretty much.

Vaquel · Nov 28, 2004, 09:14 AM

Alright I'm crashing to BIOS out of Halo and even Gunbound before I even start to play them, so I'm trying 1.75 vCore now and see how that goes.

I'm running both CPU and RAM @ 200 fsb now, and setting my RAM to user defined still isn't giving me more options with my CPU fsb. It's a pretty basic menu: 66, 100, 133, 166, 200 are my options.

I'm assuming my AGP/PCI are locked as they are set to SPD (gives me the 200 fsb on RAM in a greyed field, guessing that means locked). My AGP is set to Auto, other options range from 50 mhz, 66 mhz +1... to 100 mhz.

CDsDontBurn · Nov 28, 2004, 09:19 AM

no, set your AGP/PCI to locked @ 66/33 (AGP/PCI). As for your FSB menu, you should be able to set your FSB manually 1Mhz at a time, and that's what you want to do.

You said you had 450watt PSU. How many amps on the 12v rail does it have? If it has under 20amps, then i'd seriously consider getting another PSU that has more than 20 amps on the 12v rail. You want something that has at least like 20 amps or higher

Vaquel · Nov 28, 2004, 09:32 AM

Perhaps it is my PCI I cannot find to set then, I will do some more searching... as 66 AGP gave me a BSOD during Windows loading, back to desktop putting it back to Auto for now.

As for my PSU, this is the one I have.

**EDIT**

Looks like my PSU has 15 amps on the 12v rail... what ticks me off is the one above it that is $1.50 cheaper with 18 amps on it. Oh well mine has a bigass silent fan I guess.

Anyway, tinkering around with BIOS a bit more unlocked my CPU ~1 mhz increments, and I manually set my RAM to 100% of that, which keeps the fsb in sync. Set it like this right now:

CPU: 180
RAM: 180
AGP: 66
vCore: 1.7

This results in a jump from 1.92 to 2.07 ghz, a disappointing drop from the 2.31 ghz I was admittedly unable to game with, but loaded.

Is my AGP wrong now? If I go below 66 my only option is 50, which is not at least the 1:3:6 ratio we were attempting to achieve. I still cannot find where to specifically lock my PCI @ 33.

Vaquel · Nov 28, 2004, 10:36 AM

Well ran Halo Multiplayer rooms of 16 and ran very stable and smooth for 5 games.

Guess now all I need to do is bump my ~1 mhz's 'til the vCore gives out.

**EDIT**

A strange thing I've noticed bumping by ~1 mhz:

If I set the CPU to 185, the memory loads @ 184 for a 2.13 ghz system.

If I set the CPU to 186, the memory loads @ 185 for a 2.14 ghz system.

But back at 180 CPU, the memory loaded at 180 for a 2.07 ghz system.

So why the sudden discrepency? Would the vCore affect this? (still at 1.7)

CDsDontBurn · Nov 28, 2004, 08:32 PM

yea, everytime you increase the frequency of your chip, you might want to increase the the Vcore of your chip, to give you more system stability. Also check to see if there is a newer version of your BIOS. A new bios version will usually give you more features, or better temp readouts, or better control of your Vcore.

Vaquel · Nov 28, 2004, 10:55 PM

Thanks, seeing some really stable performance at higher qualities than before with the new OC, and I'm relieved that I didn't screw up when ordering my RAM (I originally thought it was the bare minimum to OC).

Current settings:

CPU: 186
RAM: 185 (locked @ 100%)
AGP: 66
vCore: 1.7

~ 2.14 ghz @ 42/22 under load.

I am guessing that locking my AGP @ 66 mhz will be the way to go all the way up to a possible 200 fsb (doesn't seem my vCore and PSU will handle that high tho), and my PCI must be running stock, and that is working well so far.

Good to know my system will last a little longer, now to buy HL2 instead of RAM!

Nov 27, 2004, 08:42 PM	#1
Vaquel Unwealthy Gamer Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 23 Rep Power: 0	RAM upgrade needed to OC? My current system is in my sig, I also run a 450 W PSU and arctic silver on the CPU. Total cooling running at stock speeds (current RAM underclocked to 166 to match the CPU) is 20/42, so I have plenty of room there. My 2600+ is locked, however, so it's 200 fsb CPU/RAM or bust, and when I try that, I get through the memory check, the devices check and then when Windows tries to load I lose video to the monitor and have to cold boot to BIOS. In the few moments I see it loading it's reading my CPU as a 3200+ and my memory at 200 fsb, so everything looks alright, but I'm wondering if my lack of low-latency RAM is bottlenecking during the Windows loading. Any ideas or suggestions? If it is just my RAM, I am looking at 512 x 2 low-latency RAM by Mushkin or Corsair XMS, perhaps, which looks to run around $250. That's why I want to make sure it's just the RAM if possible before I buy. __________________ Barton 2600+ OC'd ~ 2.14 ghz Asus nForce2 A7N8X-X 1024 mb Corsair ValueRam 3200 DDR 320g Western Digital 7200 rpm UATA 100 NVIDIA WinFast GeForceFX 5900XT 128 mb DDR -- 77.77 ForceWare -- WinXP Pro SP1 - on dedicated 40g Sound Blaster Extigy PacBell 1.5 MB/s DSL

Nov 27, 2004, 09:16 PM	#2
Lowfat Xtreme Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Grande Prairie, AB, Can Posts: 4,254 Rep Power: 101	your ram is DDR400 so thats not the problem more than likely. __________________

Nov 27, 2004, 09:51 PM	#3
markus82 DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Germany/Bavaria Posts: 60 Rep Power: 0	Perhaps a higher Vcore could help you. Try to set the FSB to anything between 166 and 200Mhz. __________________ [color=green]AMD Athlon64 3500+ "Newcastle"[/color] [color=green]Sparkle Geforce 6800 GT with Arctic NV Silencer 5 [/color] [color=green]OCZ EL Gold DDR 500 1024Mb kit Dual Channel[/color] [color=green]MSI K8N Neo2 54G Platinum Edition[/color] [color=green][/color]

Nov 28, 2004, 08:38 AM	Thread Starter #5
Vaquel Unwealthy Gamer Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 23 Rep Power: 0	Okay a few details first: - I can't go higher than 166 unless I go 200, since the CPU is locked it doesn't allow increments (or my mobo BIOS 1009 doesn't, either or). - I was told ValueRam wasn't great for overclocking, as the timings have to be 3-3-3-8 @ 200 fsb, (2.5-3-3-7 @ 166 fsb). - My VCore is set to 1.7 when I attempt (up from 1.65) and I have been told it isn't wise to go above that for risk reasons (I have great air-cooling but I'm more worried about the mechanical stress). - I'm not OC'ing the video card at all. Can you explain the ratio better - 1 fsb : 3 AGP : 6 PCI From all I can tell, I can only change the fsb and multiplier of my CPU (stock 166 x 11.5) OC'd to 200 x 11.5 (tried x 10, x 10.5, with worse results: no load at all). I can also change the fsb of my RAM, and the timings if I go User Defined as opposed to Auto, Optimal or Aggressive. Since I have ValueRam I see no point in manually upping the timings, the quality isn't there. I'll try to find settings for AGP and PCI and set this ratio the way I think you mean it if it's there... maybe go as far as 1.75 VCore and hope I get a boot... otherwise I'm right back here... waiting and hoping. __________________ Barton 2600+ OC'd ~ 2.14 ghz Asus nForce2 A7N8X-X 1024 mb Corsair ValueRam 3200 DDR 320g Western Digital 7200 rpm UATA 100 NVIDIA WinFast GeForceFX 5900XT 128 mb DDR -- 77.77 ForceWare -- WinXP Pro SP1 - on dedicated 40g Sound Blaster Extigy PacBell 1.5 MB/s DSL Last edited by Vaquel; Nov 28, 2004 at 08:49 AM.

Nov 28, 2004, 08:51 AM	Thread Starter #6
Vaquel Unwealthy Gamer Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 23 Rep Power: 0	Alright, I think the only thing I changed from before was upping the VCore to 1.725, which makes me a little nervous when my Probe reports fluctuations up to 1.76. The CPU temp only bumped a couple degrees on load, sitting at ~36/20 now, and I was wrong before, it was ~32/20. I probably just closed a 3D app when I got the 40/20 reading earlier. My System reports a 2.31 ghz instead of the 1.92 ghz I was seeing at stock. Time to play Halo full gfx and see what we see... thanks in advance if it holds. __________________ Barton 2600+ OC'd ~ 2.14 ghz Asus nForce2 A7N8X-X 1024 mb Corsair ValueRam 3200 DDR 320g Western Digital 7200 rpm UATA 100 NVIDIA WinFast GeForceFX 5900XT 128 mb DDR -- 77.77 ForceWare -- WinXP Pro SP1 - on dedicated 40g Sound Blaster Extigy PacBell 1.5 MB/s DSL

Nov 28, 2004, 08:57 AM	#7
CDsDontBurn Lurking DriverHeaven Join Date: May 2003 Location: Southern California Posts: 22,805 Rep Power: 235 System Specs	ok, with DDR3200 you can OC your CPU no problem despite the timings. As judas said, up your vCore. I wouldn't go past 1.85v on a barton on air. In your BIOS, set your ram to manual adjust. Then that way you can test in 1-5Mhz increases to see how high your CPU can go before you get system instability (increase Vcore when this happens). your barton 2600 has it's mult. superlocked, so don't even bother with unlocking that madness, concentrate on your FSB instead. Also, like previously stated, make sure that your AGP/PCI buses are locked, if they are not, then you will experience system instability as well. Keep your FSB/RAM timings syncronous......meaning, if your have your FSB @ 166, keep your ram running at 166 as well. You get better performance like that. Memory timings have little to do with overclocking. Your kingston value ram does you plenty well. The only thing that memory timings do is just give you more FPS in games or benchmarks pretty much. __________________ Her First Day \| A year later

Nov 28, 2004, 09:14 AM	Thread Starter #8
Vaquel Unwealthy Gamer Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 23 Rep Power: 0	Alright I'm crashing to BIOS out of Halo and even Gunbound before I even start to play them, so I'm trying 1.75 vCore now and see how that goes. I'm running both CPU and RAM @ 200 fsb now, and setting my RAM to user defined still isn't giving me more options with my CPU fsb. It's a pretty basic menu: 66, 100, 133, 166, 200 are my options. I'm assuming my AGP/PCI are locked as they are set to SPD (gives me the 200 fsb on RAM in a greyed field, guessing that means locked). My AGP is set to Auto, other options range from 50 mhz, 66 mhz +1... to 100 mhz. __________________ Barton 2600+ OC'd ~ 2.14 ghz Asus nForce2 A7N8X-X 1024 mb Corsair ValueRam 3200 DDR 320g Western Digital 7200 rpm UATA 100 NVIDIA WinFast GeForceFX 5900XT 128 mb DDR -- 77.77 ForceWare -- WinXP Pro SP1 - on dedicated 40g Sound Blaster Extigy PacBell 1.5 MB/s DSL

Nov 28, 2004, 09:19 AM	#9
CDsDontBurn Lurking DriverHeaven Join Date: May 2003 Location: Southern California Posts: 22,805 Rep Power: 235 System Specs	no, set your AGP/PCI to locked @ 66/33 (AGP/PCI). As for your FSB menu, you should be able to set your FSB manually 1Mhz at a time, and that's what you want to do. You said you had 450watt PSU. How many amps on the 12v rail does it have? If it has under 20amps, then i'd seriously consider getting another PSU that has more than 20 amps on the 12v rail. You want something that has at least like 20 amps or higher __________________ Her First Day \| A year later

Nov 28, 2004, 09:32 AM	Thread Starter #10
Vaquel Unwealthy Gamer Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 23 Rep Power: 0	Perhaps it is my PCI I cannot find to set then, I will do some more searching... as 66 AGP gave me a BSOD during Windows loading, back to desktop putting it back to Auto for now. As for my PSU, this is the one I have. EDIT Looks like my PSU has 15 amps on the 12v rail... what ticks me off is the one above it that is $1.50 cheaper with 18 amps on it. Oh well mine has a bigass silent fan I guess. Anyway, tinkering around with BIOS a bit more unlocked my CPU ~1 mhz increments, and I manually set my RAM to 100% of that, which keeps the fsb in sync. Set it like this right now: CPU: 180 RAM: 180 AGP: 66 vCore: 1.7 This results in a jump from 1.92 to 2.07 ghz, a disappointing drop from the 2.31 ghz I was admittedly unable to game with, but loaded. Is my AGP wrong now? If I go below 66 my only option is 50, which is not at least the 1:3:6 ratio we were attempting to achieve. I still cannot find where to specifically lock my PCI @ 33. __________________ Barton 2600+ OC'd ~ 2.14 ghz Asus nForce2 A7N8X-X 1024 mb Corsair ValueRam 3200 DDR 320g Western Digital 7200 rpm UATA 100 NVIDIA WinFast GeForceFX 5900XT 128 mb DDR -- 77.77 ForceWare -- WinXP Pro SP1 - on dedicated 40g Sound Blaster Extigy PacBell 1.5 MB/s DSL Last edited by Vaquel; Nov 28, 2004 at 09:46 AM.

Nov 28, 2004, 10:36 AM	Thread Starter #11
Vaquel Unwealthy Gamer Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 23 Rep Power: 0	Well ran Halo Multiplayer rooms of 16 and ran very stable and smooth for 5 games. Guess now all I need to do is bump my ~1 mhz's 'til the vCore gives out. EDIT A strange thing I've noticed bumping by ~1 mhz: If I set the CPU to 185, the memory loads @ 184 for a 2.13 ghz system. If I set the CPU to 186, the memory loads @ 185 for a 2.14 ghz system. But back at 180 CPU, the memory loaded at 180 for a 2.07 ghz system. So why the sudden discrepency? Would the vCore affect this? (still at 1.7) __________________ Barton 2600+ OC'd ~ 2.14 ghz Asus nForce2 A7N8X-X 1024 mb Corsair ValueRam 3200 DDR 320g Western Digital 7200 rpm UATA 100 NVIDIA WinFast GeForceFX 5900XT 128 mb DDR -- 77.77 ForceWare -- WinXP Pro SP1 - on dedicated 40g Sound Blaster Extigy PacBell 1.5 MB/s DSL Last edited by Vaquel; Nov 28, 2004 at 10:43 AM.

Nov 28, 2004, 08:32 PM	#12
CDsDontBurn Lurking DriverHeaven Join Date: May 2003 Location: Southern California Posts: 22,805 Rep Power: 235 System Specs	yea, everytime you increase the frequency of your chip, you might want to increase the the Vcore of your chip, to give you more system stability. Also check to see if there is a newer version of your BIOS. A new bios version will usually give you more features, or better temp readouts, or better control of your Vcore. __________________ Her First Day \| A year later

Nov 28, 2004, 10:55 PM	Thread Starter #13
Vaquel Unwealthy Gamer Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 23 Rep Power: 0	Thanks, seeing some really stable performance at higher qualities than before with the new OC, and I'm relieved that I didn't screw up when ordering my RAM (I originally thought it was the bare minimum to OC). Current settings: CPU: 186 RAM: 185 (locked @ 100%) AGP: 66 vCore: 1.7 ~ 2.14 ghz @ 42/22 under load. I am guessing that locking my AGP @ 66 mhz will be the way to go all the way up to a possible 200 fsb (doesn't seem my vCore and PSU will handle that high tho), and my PCI must be running stock, and that is working well so far. Good to know my system will last a little longer, now to buy HL2 instead of RAM! __________________ Barton 2600+ OC'd ~ 2.14 ghz Asus nForce2 A7N8X-X 1024 mb Corsair ValueRam 3200 DDR 320g Western Digital 7200 rpm UATA 100 NVIDIA WinFast GeForceFX 5900XT 128 mb DDR -- 77.77 ForceWare -- WinXP Pro SP1 - on dedicated 40g Sound Blaster Extigy PacBell 1.5 MB/s DSL