fsb 220,any one?

C3po · Jan 20, 2003, 12:27 PM

http://forums.vnoczone.com/viewtopic.php?p=59313#59313

ToshiroOC · Jan 20, 2003, 12:30 PM

Er, the proper embedding would be "", then the text for the link, then ""... and keep in mind that not many, if any, of the people here can read Vietnamese... though if you can provide us with a link to a good translator online, we would not mind...

C3po · Jan 20, 2003, 12:36 PM

you can see the pic, or you can't

ToshiroOC · Jan 20, 2003, 12:39 PM

We can see the pics

Pretty interesting... just hard to understand how he managed to do it because of a lack of Vietnamese knowledge

merry · Jan 20, 2003, 01:41 PM

His mobo is nForce2 based, supporting 333 MHz FSB (ouch!).

But the puzzling thing is he doesn't look to have gained much on chipset/mem performance on the 850E (third pic). I thought the FSB and mem bus speeds were the main constraint on mem bw.

DriveEuro · Jan 20, 2003, 05:30 PM

I could do it. My mobo will go up to 237. I'm trying to push it faster everyday. Yesturday I had 166.....now 170. I'm trying to get at least 200.

Vampyromaniac · Jan 20, 2003, 09:18 PM

Heh, don't mix up "system clock" with FSB . . .
The 170 DriveEuro mentioned being a system clock speed, corresponding to a 340MHz FSB.

DriveEuro · Jan 20, 2003, 10:37 PM

But the FSB is the system clock times two....so a 340 for me.... I'm planing on hitting 400 in a few days.

Jan 21, 2003, 09:17 AM

HEHEHE

If you think thats interesting then look at this guys Overclocking of a stick of Kingston (winbond chips) 256mb/333.

I know its greek but the benchmarks and test apps are pretty clear to understand.

262MHz !!!! thats 524 ddr...................../me hears someone faint

LOOK AT THIS

For those that dont believe it possible heres a tip.....look at his voltages and BTW hes using a prometia cooling system and a highly VOLT modded mobo.

merry · Jan 21, 2003, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Vampyromaniac
Heh, don't mix up "system clock" with FSB . . .
The 170 DriveEuro mentioned being a system clock speed, corresponding to a 340MHz FSB.

The guy in the vietnamese board had 2x220=440 MHz

Jan 21, 2003, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DriveEuro
But the FSB is the system clock times two....so a 340 for me.... I'm planing on hitting 400 in a few days.

I hope you dont mean with your type of cooling??

To get to those type of FSB you need some serious voltage and aircooling will not do the trick.

Plus the ram can go higher than the cpu as its possible to just check the
Clock+33 and tha would mean a 133 fsb +33 x 2 =333 so you see your 340 aint really that much.

To get to 400 on your ram that means a FSB of 200 x2

shuki · Jan 21, 2003, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DriveEuro
I could do it. My mobo will go up to 237. I'm trying to push it faster everyday. Yesturday I had 166.....now 170. I'm trying to get at least 200.

ha! do not confuse 170 with 220. That is a FAR huger(is that a word) gap than 133-170. In fact the gap between about 205 and 220 is damn big too!!! Highest I've pushed my current rig is 203x8.5... then backed down a bit when I added my 2nd 256 stick of samsung pc2700. Now I run it day to day at 195x9. Plenty fast for me

current rig =
kx7-333
xp1700
2x256MB samsung pc2700 CTL @ 2.5 2-6-2 2T
r8500
audigy
maxtor 60G
2 x lite on cd drives
d-link nic
winXP

DriveEuro · Jan 21, 2003, 06:42 PM

Dude......I know what I meant when I said that. My ram doesn't cooperate if I jam it up really fast. I've been coaxing it for a couple days. My board can take 237 FSB....thats 474. It all comes in time.

Jan 21, 2003, 07:42 PM

Ok as your not getting it ill tell you again with a little example.

If you read some Extreme overclocking boards you will see that they make a big deal
about FSB's of 220-225 etc and these speeds are reached with very EXTREME rigs both in voltage and cooling (phase change etc.).

My board says Max fsb 220 but that doesnt mean that i can reach it with the 1.85 max voltage the board gives me.

Here is another example:

My previous mobo (chaintech apogee) allowed me to reach a FSB of 152 on my LOCKED 2100+ but only if i set the vcore to 2 volts and it got pretty hot (up to 49c compared to 38c on regular voltage).
This mobo only allows amax vcore of 1.85(1.82 actual) so the best FSB ive seen is 142.

Unless your planning to Change your cooling and maybe a few things more its IMPOSSIBLE for you to do it.

Btw whats your max voltage setting(vcore) in the bios???

One more thing:

Whats the point in Overclocking if your not gaining any overall speed???(if your really using that multiplier i see in your sig)

DriveEuro · Jan 21, 2003, 07:57 PM

I am just trying to get to a stable FSB first, then I will overclock. My board doesn't like jumping to different FSBs right away. I have to coax it and ease it up there.

digitalwanderer · Jan 21, 2003, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DriveEuro
My board doesn't like jumping to different FSBs right away. I have to coax it and ease it up there.

Before anyone makes fun of ya and tells you you're crazy, I just wanted to mention that I do the same thing and have to "ease" me babies up there sometimes too. OCing is an art, not just a science.

DriveEuro · Jan 21, 2003, 08:22 PM

I was stupid. When I first got this board I tried to do 166 right away. Didn't work. Then I read that with some motherboards you have to ease it up. And really. I had to ease it up there. It doesn't like 10mhz jumps. I have to do it in 5mhz jumps.

WyreTheWolf · Jan 22, 2003, 06:59 AM

I was told that a 1600+ AGOIA will do 166fsb out of the box... I found this just not to be so. After bumping the fsb up 1Mhz at a time... I finally hit 166... after many more days, I got over the 170 mark. This is on a locked processor BTW.

I changed motherboards, and I figured that I could take it straight back where I had it before. That wasnt exactly so either. Evidently the motherboard, as well as the processor needs to go through a "burn-in" before the maximum potential of the motherboard can be realised.

Now... I can hit 178Mhz for short period of times. Not too shabby for an 81 dollar motherboard, and a 48 dollar CPU.

I am going to try to volt modify my motherboard a little higher... so that I can get 2.25 volts...

Still trying to hit the 1900Mhz mark...

reno · Jan 22, 2003, 07:15 AM

Yeouch...Drive, have you gotten that high of an FSB before, or is that just what some review site says...you have a loooong way to go, just don't break anything!

DriveEuro · Jan 22, 2003, 07:22 AM

I'm trying to get a CPU clock of 200... right now I'm at 195 with stock CPU voltage and just 2.6 on the ram. It actually runs fine on 2.5 but I just keep it there for insurance. I am going little by little. Tomorrow will be 200 or 205. Then we go higher. HEHE.

edit: Reno: Abit claims this board will do 237...it's just a matter of time till i can attempt to get there....I dunno if I wanna go that far though....but still.

shuki · Jan 22, 2003, 08:43 AM

man! someone should have told me about this "easing" it up there bit... took me kx7-333, samsung pc2700 CTL and unlocked xp1700 right from box to 166. Had it to 200x8.5 within an hour.... suppose I burned it in.... with a flamethrower

got me a new xp2100 "b" on its way too. Should be here end of week or beginning of next week. She ain't gonna see no burn in either! and if a mobo is kt333 or kt400 and it won't do 166 or 200 (respectively) fsb right out of box that spells RMA in my book...

and I betcha its your ram sticks that need the burning in process not your mobo or your cpu's... but anywho, it's all good until you start to smell that burnt electical smell right kinetic?

WyreTheWolf · Jan 22, 2003, 09:00 AM

Shuki, I have no idea what difference it made.

I went from a MSI KT3 Ultra, to a MSI KT3 Ultra2 - R

And I just about had to start over on my over clocking adventure.

But now everything is purring right along at *almost* 1900 Mhz!

Not bad for a processor that started out life as a 1400Mhz Processor

You are right about the "burn-in" on the memory.

Right now I have the Corsair XMS PC3200 C2

this stuff is SCREAMING fast! runs happily at 178Mhz at stock volatages in Cas2

Right now I just need more voltage! BWAHAHaHAHahahahaaa!

As sooon as I can afford it. I think it will be time for the AXP 2400+

overclocking that should be lots of fun. I dont thing I should have a problem with hitting the 2400Mhz mark

merry · Jan 22, 2003, 02:21 PM

I've read somewhere that mem sticks need a burn-in time to run at higher frequencies, sthing related to the physical contact (in the socket). Also, when taking the stick out - i.e. for dusting - this process would have to be repeated.

Also, the Arctic greases - both Silver and Alumina - need some hours of burn-in before they run full spec (36 for AA and 72 for AS3).

WyreTheWolf · Jan 22, 2003, 09:03 PM

TherMagic only takes a few hours to reach its peak potential. It has any many tests beat out the ASII, and AS3 ... I likes it.

merry · Jan 23, 2003, 09:31 AM

Nice to hear that , I can only get Arctic here - for the time being.

WyreTheWolf · Jan 23, 2003, 11:14 AM

Where exactly is "here" ? I might be able get some sent to you. maybe

ToshiroOC · Jan 23, 2003, 11:16 AM

Merry is in Romania, Wyre... (at least, that's what I remember from some post of his a while ago...)

merry · Jan 23, 2003, 11:27 AM

There, I made it public finally...

ToshiroOC · Jan 23, 2003, 11:29 AM

Cool Merry, but I think you mentioned it back in that Wendy's thread of JF's

merry · Jan 23, 2003, 11:38 AM

Yes, but I can't expect everyone to remember, do I? I didn't feel that it was important to state my location (it isn't), but sometimes it may come in handy.

Jan 20, 2003, 12:27 PM	#1
C3po DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Ha Noi, Viet Nam Posts: 52 Rep Power: 0	fsb 220,any one? http://forums.vnoczone.com/viewtopic.php?p=59313#59313 __________________ 3DMark03:115 3DMark2001SE:2911 http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=6096219 PIII1Ghz 256MB SD bus 133 Main MSI 6337 ver5.0 CD Lg 52X Sound AC97 Monitor Lg775FT

Jan 20, 2003, 12:30 PM	#2
ToshiroOC Unbiased. Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 4,812 Rep Power: 0	Er, the proper embedding would be "", then the text for the link, then ""... and keep in mind that not many, if any, of the people here can read Vietnamese... though if you can provide us with a link to a good translator online, we would not mind... __________________ [img][/img] [color=White]Peace be with you, Joe.[/color] Driverheaven Staff Member (Supermoderator)

Jan 20, 2003, 12:36 PM	Thread Starter #3
C3po DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Ha Noi, Viet Nam Posts: 52 Rep Power: 0	you can see the pic, or you can't __________________ 3DMark03:115 3DMark2001SE:2911 http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=6096219 PIII1Ghz 256MB SD bus 133 Main MSI 6337 ver5.0 CD Lg 52X Sound AC97 Monitor Lg775FT

Jan 20, 2003, 12:39 PM	#4
ToshiroOC Unbiased. Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 4,812 Rep Power: 0	We can see the pics Pretty interesting... just hard to understand how he managed to do it because of a lack of Vietnamese knowledge __________________ [img][/img] [color=White]Peace be with you, Joe.[/color] Driverheaven Staff Member (Supermoderator)

Jan 20, 2003, 05:30 PM	#6
DriveEuro HardwareHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Gurnee Illinois Posts: 4,677 Rep Power: 0	I could do it. My mobo will go up to 237. I'm trying to push it faster everyday. Yesturday I had 166.....now 170. I'm trying to get at least 200. __________________ [color=orange]ASUS P4P800 Deluxe [color=black]-[/color] 2.4C --> 3300mhz [color=black]-[/color] Mushkin PC3200 at 220 5-2-2-2 (cpu limited) [color=black]-[/color] BBAti 9800Pro at 430/375 [/color] [color=black]3[/color][color=gray]D[/color]M[color=black]a[/color][color=gray]r[/color]k[color=yellow]01[/color] [color=black]3[/color][color=gray]D[/color]M[color=black]a[/color][color=gray]r[/color]k[color=yellow]03[/color] 16001200 12801024

Jan 20, 2003, 01:41 PM	#5
merry gargouille Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: sector ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha Posts: 962 Rep Power: 0	His mobo is nForce2 based, supporting 333 MHz FSB (ouch!). But the puzzling thing is he doesn't look to have gained much on chipset/mem performance on the 850E (third pic). I thought the FSB and mem bus speeds were the main constraint on mem bw. __________________ There is a war between the ones who say there is a war and the ones who say there isn't. ~~Leonard Cohen

Jan 20, 2003, 09:18 PM	#7
Vampyromaniac confutatis maledictis Join Date: May 2002 Location: somewhere dark Posts: 5,974 Rep Power: 77 System Specs	Heh, don't mix up "system clock" with FSB . . . The 170 DriveEuro mentioned being a system clock speed, corresponding to a 340MHz FSB.

Jan 20, 2003, 10:37 PM	#8
DriveEuro HardwareHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Gurnee Illinois Posts: 4,677 Rep Power: 0	But the FSB is the system clock times two....so a 340 for me.... I'm planing on hitting 400 in a few days. __________________ [color=orange]ASUS P4P800 Deluxe [color=black]-[/color] 2.4C --> 3300mhz [color=black]-[/color] Mushkin PC3200 at 220 5-2-2-2 (cpu limited) [color=black]-[/color] BBAti 9800Pro at 430/375 [/color] [color=black]3[/color][color=gray]D[/color]M[color=black]a[/color][color=gray]r[/color]k[color=yellow]01[/color] [color=black]3[/color][color=gray]D[/color]M[color=black]a[/color][color=gray]r[/color]k[color=yellow]03[/color] 16001200 12801024

Jan 21, 2003, 09:17 AM	#9
GREEKRAGE Guest Posts: n/a	HEHEHE If you think thats interesting then look at this guys Overclocking of a stick of Kingston (winbond chips) 256mb/333. I know its greek but the benchmarks and test apps are pretty clear to understand. 262MHz !!!! thats 524 ddr...................../me hears someone faint LOOK AT THIS For those that dont believe it possible heres a tip.....look at his voltages and BTW hes using a prometia cooling system and a highly VOLT modded mobo.

Jan 21, 2003, 06:42 PM	#13
DriveEuro HardwareHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Gurnee Illinois Posts: 4,677 Rep Power: 0	Dude......I know what I meant when I said that. My ram doesn't cooperate if I jam it up really fast. I've been coaxing it for a couple days. My board can take 237 FSB....thats 474. It all comes in time. __________________ [color=orange]ASUS P4P800 Deluxe [color=black]-[/color] 2.4C --> 3300mhz [color=black]-[/color] Mushkin PC3200 at 220 5-2-2-2 (cpu limited) [color=black]-[/color] BBAti 9800Pro at 430/375 [/color] [color=black]3[/color][color=gray]D[/color]M[color=black]a[/color][color=gray]r[/color]k[color=yellow]01[/color] [color=black]3[/color][color=gray]D[/color]M[color=black]a[/color][color=gray]r[/color]k[color=yellow]03[/color] 16001200 12801024

Jan 21, 2003, 07:42 PM	#14
GREEKRAGE Guest Posts: n/a	Ok as your not getting it ill tell you again with a little example. If you read some Extreme overclocking boards you will see that they make a big deal about FSB's of 220-225 etc and these speeds are reached with very EXTREME rigs both in voltage and cooling (phase change etc.). My board says Max fsb 220 but that doesnt mean that i can reach it with the 1.85 max voltage the board gives me. Here is another example: My previous mobo (chaintech apogee) allowed me to reach a FSB of 152 on my LOCKED 2100+ but only if i set the vcore to 2 volts and it got pretty hot (up to 49c compared to 38c on regular voltage). This mobo only allows amax vcore of 1.85(1.82 actual) so the best FSB ive seen is 142. Unless your planning to Change your cooling and maybe a few things more its IMPOSSIBLE for you to do it. Btw whats your max voltage setting(vcore) in the bios??? One more thing: Whats the point in Overclocking if your not gaining any overall speed???(if your really using that multiplier i see in your sig)

Jan 21, 2003, 07:57 PM	#15
DriveEuro HardwareHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Gurnee Illinois Posts: 4,677 Rep Power: 0	I am just trying to get to a stable FSB first, then I will overclock. My board doesn't like jumping to different FSBs right away. I have to coax it and ease it up there. __________________ [color=orange]ASUS P4P800 Deluxe [color=black]-[/color] 2.4C --> 3300mhz [color=black]-[/color] Mushkin PC3200 at 220 5-2-2-2 (cpu limited) [color=black]-[/color] BBAti 9800Pro at 430/375 [/color] [color=black]3[/color][color=gray]D[/color]M[color=black]a[/color][color=gray]r[/color]k[color=yellow]01[/color] [color=black]3[/color][color=gray]D[/color]M[color=black]a[/color][color=gray]r[/color]k[color=yellow]03[/color] 16001200 12801024

Jan 21, 2003, 08:22 PM	#17
DriveEuro HardwareHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Gurnee Illinois Posts: 4,677 Rep Power: 0	I was stupid. When I first got this board I tried to do 166 right away. Didn't work. Then I read that with some motherboards you have to ease it up. And really. I had to ease it up there. It doesn't like 10mhz jumps. I have to do it in 5mhz jumps. __________________ [color=orange]ASUS P4P800 Deluxe [color=black]-[/color] 2.4C --> 3300mhz [color=black]-[/color] Mushkin PC3200 at 220 5-2-2-2 (cpu limited) [color=black]-[/color] BBAti 9800Pro at 430/375 [/color] [color=black]3[/color][color=gray]D[/color]M[color=black]a[/color][color=gray]r[/color]k[color=yellow]01[/color] [color=black]3[/color][color=gray]D[/color]M[color=black]a[/color][color=gray]r[/color]k[color=yellow]03[/color] 16001200 12801024

Jan 22, 2003, 06:59 AM	#18
WyreTheWolf Wolfish Bastard Join Date: May 2002 Location: Cave; Ozark Mountains Posts: 2,110 Rep Power: 0	I was told that a 1600+ AGOIA will do 166fsb out of the box... I found this just not to be so. After bumping the fsb up 1Mhz at a time... I finally hit 166... after many more days, I got over the 170 mark. This is on a locked processor BTW. I changed motherboards, and I figured that I could take it straight back where I had it before. That wasnt exactly so either. Evidently the motherboard, as well as the processor needs to go through a "burn-in" before the maximum potential of the motherboard can be realised. Now... I can hit 178Mhz for short period of times. Not too shabby for an 81 dollar motherboard, and a 48 dollar CPU. I am going to try to volt modify my motherboard a little higher... so that I can get 2.25 volts... Still trying to hit the 1900Mhz mark...

Jan 22, 2003, 07:15 AM	#19
reno Painlord of Ichor Join Date: May 2002 Location: bloinkin! Posts: 1,610 Rep Power: 0	sfg Yeouch...Drive, have you gotten that high of an FSB before, or is that just what some review site says...you have a loooong way to go, just don't break anything!

Jan 22, 2003, 07:22 AM	#20
DriveEuro HardwareHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Gurnee Illinois Posts: 4,677 Rep Power: 0	I'm trying to get a CPU clock of 200... right now I'm at 195 with stock CPU voltage and just 2.6 on the ram. It actually runs fine on 2.5 but I just keep it there for insurance. I am going little by little. Tomorrow will be 200 or 205. Then we go higher. HEHE. edit: Reno: Abit claims this board will do 237...it's just a matter of time till i can attempt to get there....I dunno if I wanna go that far though....but still. __________________ [color=orange]ASUS P4P800 Deluxe [color=black]-[/color] 2.4C --> 3300mhz [color=black]-[/color] Mushkin PC3200 at 220 5-2-2-2 (cpu limited) [color=black]-[/color] BBAti 9800Pro at 430/375 [/color] [color=black]3[/color][color=gray]D[/color]M[color=black]a[/color][color=gray]r[/color]k[color=yellow]01[/color] [color=black]3[/color][color=gray]D[/color]M[color=black]a[/color][color=gray]r[/color]k[color=yellow]03[/color] 16001200 12801024 Last edited by DriveEuro; Jan 22, 2003 at 07:29 AM.

Jan 22, 2003, 08:43 AM	#21
shuki DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: in the hidden place Posts: 1,975 Rep Power: 0	man! someone should have told me about this "easing" it up there bit... took me kx7-333, samsung pc2700 CTL and unlocked xp1700 right from box to 166. Had it to 200x8.5 within an hour.... suppose I burned it in.... with a flamethrower got me a new xp2100 "b" on its way too. Should be here end of week or beginning of next week. She ain't gonna see no burn in either! and if a mobo is kt333 or kt400 and it won't do 166 or 200 (respectively) fsb right out of box that spells RMA in my book... and I betcha its your ram sticks that need the burning in process not your mobo or your cpu's... but anywho, it's all good until you start to smell that burnt electical smell right kinetic?

Jan 22, 2003, 09:00 AM	#22
WyreTheWolf Wolfish Bastard Join Date: May 2002 Location: Cave; Ozark Mountains Posts: 2,110 Rep Power: 0	Shuki, I have no idea what difference it made. I went from a MSI KT3 Ultra, to a MSI KT3 Ultra2 - R And I just about had to start over on my over clocking adventure. But now everything is purring right along at almost 1900 Mhz! Not bad for a processor that started out life as a 1400Mhz Processor You are right about the "burn-in" on the memory. Right now I have the Corsair XMS PC3200 C2 this stuff is SCREAMING fast! runs happily at 178Mhz at stock volatages in Cas2 Right now I just need more voltage! BWAHAHaHAHahahahaaa! As sooon as I can afford it. I think it will be time for the AXP 2400+ overclocking that should be lots of fun. I dont thing I should have a problem with hitting the 2400Mhz mark

Jan 22, 2003, 02:21 PM	#23
merry gargouille Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: sector ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha Posts: 962 Rep Power: 0	I've read somewhere that mem sticks need a burn-in time to run at higher frequencies, sthing related to the physical contact (in the socket). Also, when taking the stick out - i.e. for dusting - this process would have to be repeated. Also, the Arctic greases - both Silver and Alumina - need some hours of burn-in before they run full spec (36 for AA and 72 for AS3). __________________ There is a war between the ones who say there is a war and the ones who say there isn't. ~~Leonard Cohen

Jan 22, 2003, 09:03 PM	#24
WyreTheWolf Wolfish Bastard Join Date: May 2002 Location: Cave; Ozark Mountains Posts: 2,110 Rep Power: 0	TherMagic only takes a few hours to reach its peak potential. It has any many tests beat out the ASII, and AS3 ... I likes it.

Jan 23, 2003, 09:31 AM	#25
merry gargouille Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: sector ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha Posts: 962 Rep Power: 0	Nice to hear that , I can only get Arctic here - for the time being. __________________ There is a war between the ones who say there is a war and the ones who say there isn't. ~~Leonard Cohen

Jan 23, 2003, 11:14 AM	#26
WyreTheWolf Wolfish Bastard Join Date: May 2002 Location: Cave; Ozark Mountains Posts: 2,110 Rep Power: 0	Where exactly is "here" ? I might be able get some sent to you. maybe

Jan 23, 2003, 11:16 AM	#27
ToshiroOC Unbiased. Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 4,812 Rep Power: 0	Merry is in Romania, Wyre... (at least, that's what I remember from some post of his a while ago...) __________________ [img][/img] [color=White]Peace be with you, Joe.[/color] Driverheaven Staff Member (Supermoderator)

Jan 23, 2003, 11:27 AM	#28
merry gargouille Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: sector ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha Posts: 962 Rep Power: 0	There, I made it public finally... __________________ There is a war between the ones who say there is a war and the ones who say there isn't. ~~Leonard Cohen

Jan 23, 2003, 11:29 AM	#29
ToshiroOC Unbiased. Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 4,812 Rep Power: 0	Cool Merry, but I think you mentioned it back in that Wendy's thread of JF's __________________ [img][/img] [color=White]Peace be with you, Joe.[/color] Driverheaven Staff Member (Supermoderator)

Jan 23, 2003, 11:38 AM	#30
merry gargouille Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: sector ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha Posts: 962 Rep Power: 0	Yes, but I can't expect everyone to remember, do I? I didn't feel that it was important to state my location (it isn't), but sometimes it may come in handy. __________________ There is a war between the ones who say there is a war and the ones who say there isn't. ~~Leonard Cohen