America worried ??

violat3 · Jun 3, 2006, 01:07 PM

America has the barefaced cheek to ask any sovriegn nation its intentions regarding military spending , China will be the next superpower that will rival and then consume the USA

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/03062006/32...-spending.html

Rumsfeld urges China to come clean on military spending

Saturday June 3, 12:14 PM

US Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld has urged China to explain its increased military spending to the world, saying it was in its interest to demystify actions that others find potentially threatening.

Speaking at an international security conference in Singapore, Rumsfeld said China had every right to decide how to invest its resources, but the rest of the world also needed to understand Beijing's intentions.

"The only issue on transparency is that China would benefit

[color=#000000]

[/color]
by demystifying the reasons why they are investing in what they are investing in, in my view," Rumsfeld said Saturday.

A Pentagon report last month said China was spending two to three times more on its military than the 35 billion dollars a year it has acknowledged.

The report concluded that while Taiwan appears to be the near-term focus of China's military spending, the buildup poses a potential threat to the United States over the longer term.

Rumsfeld did not go as far as saying that China was a potential threat or future military rival to the US in a question and answer session with defense and security officials attending the so-called Shangri-la Dialogue in Singapore.

He said he thought China's primary objective was a peaceful reunification of Taiwan with the mainland.

But, he argued that as China's stake in the global economy grows it will face pressure to explain its behavior to the outside world.

"In life you can't have it both ways," Rumsfeld said.

"You can't be successful economically and engage the rest of the world, and have people milling around your country and selling things and buying things and engaging in exchanges, and have them at the same time worried or wondering about some mystery that they see as behavior that is unsettling," he said.

"If the rest of the world looks at China and sees a behavior pattern that is mysterious and potentially threatening, it tends to affect the willingness to invest," he said.

Rumsfeld also held bilateral meetings with Singapore's Defense Minister Teo Chee Hean and Australian and Indian counterparts Brendan Nelson and Pranab Mukherjee.

Mukherjee said India's relations with China were improving but stressed the need for greater information sharing.

China was represented at the conference here by a lower level foreign ministry official, Tan Qingsheng, even though Rumsfeld had urged Beijing to participate at a higher level when he visited the Chinese capital in October.

On other issues, Rumsfeld expressed concern about China and Russia's role in forming the Shanghai Cooperation Organization, a group of central Asian nations that has called for a withdrawal of US forces from Afghanistan.

He said US relations with Russia are better than they have been in decades.

"But in other ways Russia has been less helpful, as when they seek to constrain the independence and freedom of action of some neighboring countries," he said.

He also criticized a move to admit Iran to the Shanghai Cooperation Organization.

"It strikes me as strange that one would want to bring into an organization that says it's against terrorism ... one of the leading terrorist nations in the world -- Iran," he said.

Asked about rising anti-American sentiment around the world, Rumsfeld said he was concerned about it, but believed that "the ultimately truth wins out".

"In Iraq, some people like the good old days that never were. Saddam Hussein was no sweetheart," he said.

"Do I recognize that the United States is closely identified with Israel and that the bulk of that region tends to be anti-Israel and blames the plight of the Palestinians on the Israelis, and by extension on the United States? I do recognize that," he said.

He suggested, however, that Al-Qaeda has been "enormously successful" in manipulating a free press to spread disinformation and weaken the will of its opponents.

"The United States clearly has to be sensitive to world opinion. We also have high regard for having 3,000 people killed on September 11 in our country, and we don't intend for that to happen again," he said.

Necrosis · Jun 3, 2006, 06:47 PM

America worried..maybe so but the rest of the planet should be concerned as well. It's a lot easier to move forces around on a continent then move them a across an ocean.

row · Jun 4, 2006, 09:30 AM

much more concerned with china's rising economic power......otherwise "no"

Pompey · Jun 4, 2006, 10:38 AM

I am worries about the military rise of china.

At least in America people who opposed the Iraq war were free to do so and there has been wide spread debate over the invasion (or liberation if you want to call it that). If China was to invade another country there would be no debate.

Sandok · Jun 4, 2006, 11:45 AM

That's why communism and dictatorships work... A goverment does something, and they do it... Nobody whines

Anyways, America can't be a superpower forever... It's economy is bad recently, their world opinion is even lower than with Reagan (which nobody thought possible) and with the rise of outsourcing and huge economic dev of poorer countries like India and China, the US is screwed.

row · Jun 4, 2006, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sandok

............................................

Anyways, America can't be a superpower forever... It's economy is bad recently, their world opinion is even lower than with Reagan....................... the US is screwed.

first part reminds me of the quote about "my demise being greatly exagerated".......am unwilling to deal in absolutes so i certainly agree that nothing is forever. on the other hand i'll bet her power will outlive the huge majority of us. i would hazard to guess that her demise if it comes will be due to internal degradation....not from any outside source. since she probably has the power to destroy the earth a number of times over i don't think nuclear holocaust is in anyones best interest...i could be wrong though?

not sure where your economic info comes from but america is experiencing one of it's greatest growth periods in it's short and prosperous life....buy stock - be happy!

everybody hates a winner, so world opinion is taken with a grain of salt.......Ronald Reagan is held in higher esteem (by those that count, the people he served) than any other president sans Washington

with the us being screwed, i wonder where that leaves the rest of the second and third rate whinners?

Sandok · Jun 4, 2006, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by row

first part reminds me of the quote about "my death being greatly exagerated".......am unwilling to deal in absolutes so i certainly agree that nothing is forever. on the other hand i'll bet her power will outlive the huge majority of us. i would hazard to guess that her demise if it comes will be due to internal degradation....not from any outside source. since she probably has the power to destroy the earth a number of times over i don't think nuclear holocaust is in anyones best interest...i could be wrong though?

not sure where you economic info comes from but america is experiencing one of it's greatest growth periods in it's short and prosperous life....buy stock - be happy!

everybody hates a winner, so world opinion is taken with a grain of salt.......Ronald Reagan is held in higher esteem (by those that count, the people he served) than any other president sans Washington

with the us being screwed, i wonder where that leaves the rest of the second and third rate whinners?

What are you on about? At the rate of power that China and other countries are gaining, the US demise if there will be one will be from the outside, not internal.

Well let's see... You guys have had your worst automotive year, least number of jobs created and from what all the economist say, you just aren't competitive enough... Those are my sources.

Nobody hates a good winner. Everyone hates a sore looser and honstly, if you think the world hates you guys cuz ur number one, you gotta get out of your state and country and travel... The problem is a bit more mature than that. I've lived in the US and trust me, you guys haven't got a clue why the world really dislikes you.

What does it matter to the others? You get screwed, well your the only ones. Europe doesn't care... Neither do other countries.

~~Alien1~~ · Jun 4, 2006, 03:00 PM

Every ""Empire"" has it's beginning and end

History proves it
From ancient powers like the Roman Empire to more modern ones

and USA which is already pretty old for beeing a "big power" is not excluded Mr Row...lets see how much more it will last until some other country (China ??) becomes the next "Big power"

Quote:

with the us being screwed, i wonder where that leaves the rest of the second and third rate whinners?

USA is also depended from many of these second and third rate whiners to stay in top position
Like the oil for example

Many countries have survived even today before USA appears and gain power

Some countries are not so dependable by the USA as you think

Falstaff · Jun 4, 2006, 03:16 PM

All the western nations are worried, so to speak, that is why even in war we are in bed with countries that argueably we would have never dealt with. We support communist forces during WWII and we are very familiar with their methods and tactics, but the economic battlefield is less tangible and more powerful than we could have imagined say perhaps 20 years ago, while this giant slept. But now, China rises with India as a huge technical and financial powerhouse on the edge of dominating world markets, we did it for along time, makes sense to be keenly aware of the economic enviornment outside our borders. But the average citizen will never feel it, not yet at least.

violat3 · Jun 4, 2006, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falstaff

All the western nations are worried, so to speak, that is why even in war we are in bed with countries that argueably we would have never dealt with. We support communist forces during WWII and we are very familiar with their methods and tactics, but the economic battlefield is less tangible and more powerful than we could have imagined say perhaps 20 years ago, while this giant slept. But now, China rises with India as a huge technical and financial powerhouse on the edge of dominating world markets, we did it for along time, makes sense to be keenly aware of the economic enviornment outside our borders. But the average citizen will never feel it, not yet at least.

read my post again ... it is mainly about China decieving the west on it's military spending by only publicising 1/3 of their budget and the intentions behind it

On other issues, Rumsfeld expressed concern about China and Russia's role in forming the Shanghai Cooperation Organization, a group of central Asian nations that has called for a withdrawal of US forces from Afghanistan.

this is really what is making the American goverment worry ... the above organization wishes to include Iran into it's membership

my opinion is this: America the past 15 years has been basically been able to do as she pleases due to the collapse of the Soviet union , if this newish grouping, can curtail/reign in US/UK illegal actions ie the Iraq invasion, Guantanamo Bay concentration camp (face facts yanks, that is what it is) vetoeing UN law against Isreal so that Isreal can enforce state terrorism on the palestinians ... then i am all for it

Falstaff · Jun 4, 2006, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by violat3

read my post again ... it is mainly about Communist China decieving the west on it's military spending by only publicising 1/3 of their budget and the intentions behind it

On other issues, Rumsfeld expressed concern about China and Russia's role in forming the Shanghai Cooperation Organization, a group of central Asian nations that has called for a withdrawal of US forces from Afghanistan.

this is really what is making the American goverment worry ... the above organization wishes to include Iran into it's membership

my opinion is this: America the past 15 years has been basically been able to do as she pleases due to the collapse of the Soviet union , if this newish grouping, can curtail/reign in US/UK illegal actions ie the Iraq invasion, Guantanamo Bay concentration camp (face facts yanks, that is what it is) vetoeing UN law against Isreal so that Isreal can enforce state terrorism on the palestinians ... then i am all for it

I fully understand your remarks about China, I dont necessarily disagree with the primace that China, and say perhaps its partners arent responsible for much of the political intrigue beyond its borders. I agree, and in fact before the whole war on terrorism transpired, the Bush administration was going to take a more active role in counter espionage against China.

I agree with Rumsfeld, though I dont like his style or his politics, that Communist China has always been and increases in being a threat to the United States economy and to its economic interests. The point I wish to make is that like the Japanese after the fall of their country after WWII, they arose due to hard work, investment and brinksmenship and good fortune. I honestly believe that no one that invests in China believes that they wont try to steal technology from whoever does. That the Communist Chinese have little to gain by sticking to a set of scruples so to speak when trade in engage in partnerships with them. In fact I believe they will do as all other Asian powers have done, steal what we have, adapt, and overcome, and produce perhaps something better than the west can produce. We know they are willing to make terrible sacrifices to accomplish this, just as the emporers of their anchient kingdoms.

The smartest thing we can do is remain vigilant, because we all know the only thing keeping the Chinese and any other hostile entity from creating havoc here in the U.S. is the vigilance of each and everyone of our agents in the field, and those monitoring their activity.

I can say this with some accuracy because I was married to a Chinese Lingquist working at a Naval Security Group Activity in Japan. The substance of what she knew she never divulged to me, but she certainly told me some things that opened my eyes. So I am not surprised if Taiwan is just a feint to keep us all busy while behind the scenes China builds its economic arsenal.
I truly believe that China will not destroy the world, they have too much to gain by taking it over economically. I am sure there are several proxys acting on their behalf in all countries including the muslim nations.

violat3 · Jun 4, 2006, 07:13 PM

currently they are finishing off/refitting the former Soviet aircraft carrier Varyag (sister ship of the Kuznetsov) ... they have major plans to build several aircraft carriers they are already with India & Russia planning the next generation of battle tanks, Air superiority fighter and naval power .... rumour has it that China wants to buy at least one of Russia's 4 Kirov class battle cruisers (the largest warships built since ww2 aircraft carriers not included) their role is to stalk a enemy battle fleet and take out aircraft carriers with their shipwreck missles ... stealth technologies were used to build the warship ... apparently it leaves the signature of a frigate or small destroyer

Necrosis · Jun 4, 2006, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sandok

What are you on about? At the rate of power that China and other countries are gaining, the US demise if there will be one will be from the outside, not internal.

Well let's see... You guys have had your worst automotive year, least number of jobs created and from what all the economist say, you just aren't competitive enough... Those are my sources.

Nobody hates a good winner. Everyone hates a sore looser and honstly, if you think the world hates you guys cuz ur number one, you gotta get out of your state and country and travel... The problem is a bit more mature than that. I've lived in the US and trust me, you guys haven't got a clue why the world really dislikes you.

What does it matter to the others? You get screwed, well your the only ones. Europe doesn't care... Neither do other countries.

The reason for the so called bad automotive is because of raising health car costs, and foreign competitors. Least number of jobs? So far there has been more jobs created so far in 2005/2006 than since 2001. Hear say isn't facts my friend.

First off I'd like to say no country totally divulges their military spending.

Secondly, the situation /w China is going to work out two ways.

Option 1. The Communist system eventually breaks because as more, and more people get money they want more freedoms. Reason why China has so much money is because they let their people work like slaves for outside investors. However, that can't last forever of course which means more freedoms, more money. Those jobs will eventually go some where else. Some thing you should know USA, and China businesses are working together on a lot of things.

Option 2: China is going to re-engage the old soviet initiative about invading, and spreading communism. Honestly people keep lumping India /w China but that couldn't be any further from the truth. India is nerouvs about China, why? Who really is China's number one competitor right now? India not the USA! Who better to invade? Hell why not invade all the surrounding countries. Why would China want the US forces out of Afghanistan?

If you want to hurt China it's pretty damn simple. Stop buying items made there.

SFOSOK · Jun 4, 2006, 08:33 PM

America can't end without ending everyone else, too many nukes.

row · Jun 4, 2006, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sandok

What are you on about? At the rate of power that China and other countries are gaining, the US demise if there will be one will be from the outside, not internal.

economically i believe our only "threat" is the huge increase in petroleum prices caused by the competition from india/china...that will dissapate with the advent of an alternative fuel source, and severing our dependence on....

as the saying goes "it's a great time to be black and american"!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sandock

Well let's see... You guys have had your worst automotive year, least number of jobs created and from what all the economist say, you just aren't competitive enough... Those are my sources.

i hate to pop your bubble but the above shows no sources....just an unsupported opinion

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sandok

Nobody hates a good winner. Everyone hates a sore looser and honstly, if you think the world hates you guys cuz ur number one, you gotta get out of your state and country and travel... The problem is a bit more mature than that. I've lived in the US and trust me, you guys haven't got a clue why the world really dislikes you.

well let's see, i've been to viet nam (twice).....spent time in the middle east during the gulf war....have been to russia....asia....europa....north africa & south america. as far as the "world" hating me is concerned i'd just quote from a great american;

"be who you are..
and say what you think...

those that matter won't mind..
those who mind won't matter!

dr seuss

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sandok

What does it matter to the others? You get screwed, well your the only ones. Europe doesn't care... Neither do other countries.

sounds like you're "in the know bro" can't argue with that

Sandok · Jun 4, 2006, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Necrosis

The reason for the so called bad automotive is because of raising health car costs, and foreign competitors. Least number of jobs? So far there has been more jobs created so far in 2005/2006 than since 2001. Hear say isn't facts my friend.

First off I'd like to say no country totally divulges their military spending.

Secondly, the situation /w China is going to work out two ways.

Option 1. The Communist system eventually breaks because as more, and more people get money they want more freedoms. Reason why China has so much money is because they let their people work like slaves for outside investors. However, that can't last forever of course which means more freedoms, more money. Those jobs will eventually go some where else. Some thing you should know USA, and China businesses are working together on a lot of things.

Option 2: China is going to re-engage the old soviet initiative about invading, and spreading communism. Honestly people keep lumping India /w China but that couldn't be any further from the truth. India is nerouvs about China, why? Who really is China's number one competitor right now? India not the USA! Who better to invade? Hell why not invade all the surrounding countries. Why would China want the US forces out of Afghanistan?

If you want to hurt China it's pretty damn simple. Stop buying items made there.

Well I saw on Fox that they didn't make many jobs... Guess I either heard or saw wrong. My bad.

On your opinion one, I never said it'd last or anything. Just to get things done, it is the fastest system out there...

Dude, what are you on about with India? As an indian, trust me there isn't even a wiff of talk about China. We are their competitor but trust me, they want USA's dev and tech and power much more than India's which is a developping nation. And if you would actually STUDY the chinese goverment, you'd actually find out that your pretty wrong about their ideology.

Mao Zedung stepped into communism, very true but UNLIKE the USSR at the time, it wasn't to convert other countries to their system but more a form of nationlasim which helped them kick out all the foreign investors and all. In addition, they've always been very cold to other communist countries... You only have to fear their current industry, not their army or manpower. Nobody comes close to the US for that.

OldBuzzard · Jun 4, 2006, 10:27 PM

Sandok, a little 'light reading' for you

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q...jRiYzJjMzM2N2U=

Part of which says:

The economic recovery we’re now enjoying is a dramatic supply-side success story. After 9 quarters of declining business investment, the 2003 tax-rate cuts triggered a dramatic reversal: 12 consecutive quarters of rising business investment. For the past three years the economy has grown at a brisk 3.9 percent rate, almost a full percentage point faster than the postwar average.

The economy has created more than 5 million jobs, delivering the largest labor force in American history. Unemployment has fallen from 6.2 percent to 4.7 percent, significantly lower than the forecast prior to the rate cuts.

Wages, meanwhile, are rising: In the past year, average wages increased by 3.8 percent, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics.

As for the markets, the Dow stood at 8,600 when the Senate passed the investor rates cuts three years ago. Even with its recent correction, it now stands over 11,000, a stunning 30 percent jump. The markets have created more than $5 trillion of shareholder wealth. Dividend increases are up 72 percent and dividend cash is up 40 percent.

Not surprisingly, all this growth has had the net effect of throwing off more tax revenues. Corporate income tax revenues grew by 40 percent in two consecutive years. Overall federal revenue was up 5.5 percent in 2004 and a stunning 14.5 percent last year. Capital-gains tax revenues are higher than they were projected to be before the rate cuts. And the 2005 deficit was only 2.6 percent of GDP, lower than it was every single year from 1980 to 1994 — hardly cause for alarm.

Bad economy? I think not.

Necrosis · Jun 4, 2006, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sandok

Well I saw on Fox that they didn't make many jobs... Guess I either heard or saw wrong. My bad.

On your opinion one, I never said it'd last or anything. Just to get things done, it is the fastest system out there...

Dude, what are you on about with India? As an indian, trust me there isn't even a wiff of talk about China. We are their competitor but trust me, they want USA's dev and tech and power much more than India's which is a developping nation. And if you would actually STUDY the chinese goverment, you'd actually find out that your pretty wrong about their ideology.

Mao Zedung stepped into communism, very true but UNLIKE the USSR at the time, it wasn't to convert other countries to their system but more a form of nationlasim which helped them kick out all the foreign investors and all. In addition, they've always been very cold to other communist countries... You only have to fear their current industry, not their army or manpower. Nobody comes close to the US for that.

If I'm so wrong, and they have peaceful intentions then why have the massive military build up? The only reason for that is if you intend to do some thing with that military. Just look at any nation in history that has done the same. Eventually they did go to war, or intentions to do so. Talk is cheap, but actions speak louder than words.

There are quite a few corporations that are investing in China, Intel, Google, and Microsoft to only name a few. Cold to other countries indeed, ever heard of some thing called the Korean war?

Falstaff · Jun 4, 2006, 10:45 PM

China is going through a sort of political evolution, the same that pushed aside Maoist principals and doctrine and as the old guard dies off, and is replaced with the current and up and coming members of the regime, they fully intend I believe to use whatever means are at their disposal just short of a military intervention to accomplish their goals. Shudder to think what a vast Armada of Communist Chinese ships and squadrons of aircraft would do to one of our partners much less us. We can sustain a three theater war with what we have for a short period of time, but a protracted engagement with such a large country would drain us and make us more vulnerable. One thing for sure, the bloody French wouldnt come to our rescue..LOL

The_Neon_Cowboy · Jun 4, 2006, 11:22 PM

It simple China plans to invade Taiwan and plans to be fighting the USA at the very least.
In not many others. Within the next decade if not the next few years.. They are ready
warned USA not to interfere with their Taiwan “plans” or they would fight us too. The
independent and democratic country? of Taiwan who broke from china long ago. Their
intent is clear their “bulking up”. It something you do before a major military action and
Trying their hand at hiding their spending to avoid suspicion.

Sandok · Jun 4, 2006, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldBuzzard

Bad economy? I think not.

Compared to the other faster growing nations? I think yes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Necrosis

If I'm so wrong, and they have peaceful intentions then why have the massive military build up? The only reason for that is if you intend to do some thing with that military. Just look at any nation in history that has done the same. Eventually they did go to war, or intentions to do so. Talk is cheap, but actions speak louder than words.

There are quite a few corporations that are investing in China, Intel, Google, and Microsoft to only name a few. Cold to other countries indeed, ever heard of some thing called the Korean war?

You are a peaceful nation, yet you have an army... Hell I live in a TOTALLY neutral country which hasn't been in EITHER World War and we got an army... Every country needs an army mate!

Wow they SOOO helped in the Korean war straight away... It was only when the US pushed hard against the frontier Korea/China that they finally decided to intervene. But the entire beginning, they just watched.

Necrosis · Jun 4, 2006, 11:54 PM

My country really being peaceful remains (war every 20-30 years) to be seen. Yes, most countries do have some sort of standing army. However, I doubt the country you in live in spends near as much as China nor has spent as much.

Also about the economy here you really can't compare it to those nations since they are starting from very little. The new market is asia because still many of the people live a centuries old life style. However, still those nations you speak of most of them still have millions of people in poverty. It's the old turle, and hare story all over again. The single fact of why these nations have the business in the first place is cheap labor. The probem with that is you can't always have cheap labor so there will be a stop gab. Mexico would be on the list too if it wasn't for Nafta, and similar programs.

AttroPheed · Jun 6, 2006, 04:30 AM

I want to move to whatever country sandok is from. Must be pretty sweet to live where there is no turmoil or political infighting. A land where superstition and the very model of the world's most perfect democratic government are kept completely seperate. A place where the crime-free streets are filled with the harmonious smiling faces of gainfully employed persons of every race, color, and creed and the bustling economy has turning most people into self-sustaining millionaires.

As soon as I arrived, I'd go right over to sandok's great big glass house and help him throw stones.

Sandok · Jun 6, 2006, 06:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AttroPheed

I want to move to whatever country sandok is from. Must be pretty sweet to live where there is no turmoil or political infighting. A land where superstition and the very model of the world's most perfect democratic government are kept completely seperate. A place where the crime-free streets are filled with the harmonious smiling faces of gainfully employed persons of every race, color, and creed and the bustling economy has turning most people into self-sustaining millionaires.

As soon as I arrived, I'd go right over to sandok's great big glass house and help him throw stones.

Alors monsieur le parisien, maybe you SHOULD come over since (if your location is true), I live barely two hours away from you. Switzerland is a bloody glass house country. We have very little crime, no politcal probs (ever heard of us on the news?), not as many racial conflicts as you'd think, the most boring democratic system, a static economy, and a HUGE amount of millionaires every damn year... Quite a few rich guys live here (The CEO of Ikea lives 15 minutes away from me for example)... Jelously can be such a cruel thing... Honestly, come just for a day... This country is as boring and stale as it can get and NOTHING happens. No murders, speeders, anything! It's boredom but hell, we don't care... It's a great country if you wanna retire!

AttroPheed · Jun 6, 2006, 03:04 PM

*Attro Googles a map to see where the hell switzerland is.*
*is looking around up by finland and shit.*
*Feels stupid when he realizes it shares a border with the fucking country he currently lives in!*

Whoa we're neighbors! But dammit, trying to rip on switzerland is tough. How about "Your furniture assembly instruction sheets are fucking useless!" or "Switzerland is an entire nation of people who never move their back row when they play checkers!" (a dig at neutrality) or "The tiny marshmallows in Swiss Miss cocoa gobble balls!". I could call every swiss person who was alive during the war a nazi sympathizer but that's pretty dated and since pretty much anyone in the world with the means was making money on the holocaust too I'd just get shut down.

*pff* Fuck it. Yanks suck. Semi-literate fundies are going to be the demise of us all... or whatever the thread was about. Politics bore me. I'm one of the 70% of Americans that doesn't vote and one of the brave few willing to admit to living in France (which I also had to search for on a map when I learned I was moving here.)

Sandok · Jun 6, 2006, 03:31 PM

What are you talking about? Ikea is SWEDISH, not swiss mate...

The CEO just lives here...

That was GOLDEN!

And about WW2, the swiss helped both the nazi's and the resistance... That's part of being neutral, you help anyone who asks and we did accept MANY jews in the country!

Anyways, we are rich and live in cookoo clocks with tons of chocolate, what's wrong with that?

Maddogg6 · Jun 6, 2006, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AttroPheed

*pff* Fuck it. Yanks suck. Semi-literate fundies are going to be the demise of us all... or whatever the thread was about. Politics bore me. I'm one of the 70% of Americans that doesn't vote and one of the brave few willing to admit to living in France (which I also had to search for on a map when I learned I was moving here.)

I cant argue the point you made, other than to replace 'semi-literate fundies' with 'ignorance' (which is 'fundementally' the real problem - right?).

But, Damn! - its also ignorance that your displaying here as well (Which, btw, puts you on that same list.) - Thus, us 'yanks' are gratefull you don't vote.

Politics used to bore me as well, but over time (and I matured) I found that leaving it in the hands of others - has led to the government we have now. Something, while I'm not particularly happy with, I also accept some of the responsibility for, as a direct result of my previous 'in-activity'.

AttroPheed · Jun 7, 2006, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sandok

What are you talking about? Ikea is SWEDISH, not swiss mate... The CEO just lives here... That was GOLDEN!

Well then his furniture instruction sheets suck but only insofar as his swiss citizenship extends! But yeah... oops.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sandok

And about WW2, the swiss helped both the nazi's and the resistance...

America too, in so many words. War is a pretty good racket after all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maddogg6

I cant argue the point you made, other than to replace 'semi-literate fundies' with 'ignorance' (which is 'fundementally' the real problem - right?).

This was directed more at the people presently in charge but you're absolutely right, yes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maddogg6

But, Damn! - its also ignorance that your displaying here as well

Irony is a harsh mistress.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maddogg6

Politics used to bore me as well, but over time (and I matured) I found that leaving it in the hands of others - has led to the government we have now. Something, while I'm not particularly happy with, I also accept some of the responsibility for, as a direct result of my previous 'in-activity'.

I would certainly vote if presented with a candidate worthy of my vote. Choosing between 2 manbags who are for sale to the highest bidder is impossible. I'll vote for anyone who's pro-videogame tho.

Nacht · Jun 7, 2006, 05:13 PM

I'll answer the thread title.

Nope. Business as usual.

Sandok · Jun 7, 2006, 05:18 PM

I take it Night you didn't read the thread?

Jun 3, 2006, 01:07 PM	#1
violat3 DriverHeaven Addict Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Caledonia Posts: 348 Rep Power: 0	America worried ?? America has the barefaced cheek to ask any sovriegn nation its intentions regarding military spending , China will be the next superpower that will rival and then consume the USA http://uk.news.yahoo.com/03062006/32...-spending.html Rumsfeld urges China to come clean on military spending Saturday June 3, 12:14 PM US Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld has urged China to explain its increased military spending to the world, saying it was in its interest to demystify actions that others find potentially threatening. Speaking at an international security conference in Singapore, Rumsfeld said China had every right to decide how to invest its resources, but the rest of the world also needed to understand Beijing's intentions. "The only issue on transparency is that China would benefit [color=#000000] [/color] by demystifying the reasons why they are investing in what they are investing in, in my view," Rumsfeld said Saturday. A Pentagon report last month said China was spending two to three times more on its military than the 35 billion dollars a year it has acknowledged. The report concluded that while Taiwan appears to be the near-term focus of China's military spending, the buildup poses a potential threat to the United States over the longer term. Rumsfeld did not go as far as saying that China was a potential threat or future military rival to the US in a question and answer session with defense and security officials attending the so-called Shangri-la Dialogue in Singapore. He said he thought China's primary objective was a peaceful reunification of Taiwan with the mainland. But, he argued that as China's stake in the global economy grows it will face pressure to explain its behavior to the outside world. "In life you can't have it both ways," Rumsfeld said. "You can't be successful economically and engage the rest of the world, and have people milling around your country and selling things and buying things and engaging in exchanges, and have them at the same time worried or wondering about some mystery that they see as behavior that is unsettling," he said. "If the rest of the world looks at China and sees a behavior pattern that is mysterious and potentially threatening, it tends to affect the willingness to invest," he said. Rumsfeld also held bilateral meetings with Singapore's Defense Minister Teo Chee Hean and Australian and Indian counterparts Brendan Nelson and Pranab Mukherjee. Mukherjee said India's relations with China were improving but stressed the need for greater information sharing. China was represented at the conference here by a lower level foreign ministry official, Tan Qingsheng, even though Rumsfeld had urged Beijing to participate at a higher level when he visited the Chinese capital in October. On other issues, Rumsfeld expressed concern about China and Russia's role in forming the Shanghai Cooperation Organization, a group of central Asian nations that has called for a withdrawal of US forces from Afghanistan. He said US relations with Russia are better than they have been in decades. "But in other ways Russia has been less helpful, as when they seek to constrain the independence and freedom of action of some neighboring countries," he said. He also criticized a move to admit Iran to the Shanghai Cooperation Organization. "It strikes me as strange that one would want to bring into an organization that says it's against terrorism ... one of the leading terrorist nations in the world -- Iran," he said. Asked about rising anti-American sentiment around the world, Rumsfeld said he was concerned about it, but believed that "the ultimately truth wins out". "In Iraq, some people like the good old days that never were. Saddam Hussein was no sweetheart," he said. "Do I recognize that the United States is closely identified with Israel and that the bulk of that region tends to be anti-Israel and blames the plight of the Palestinians on the Israelis, and by extension on the United States? I do recognize that," he said. He suggested, however, that Al-Qaeda has been "enormously successful" in manipulating a free press to spread disinformation and weaken the will of its opponents. "The United States clearly has to be sensitive to world opinion. We also have high regard for having 3,000 people killed on September 11 in our country, and we don't intend for that to happen again," he said.

Jun 4, 2006, 09:30 AM	#3
row DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: northern calif Posts: 85 Rep Power: 0	much more concerned with china's rising economic power......otherwise "no" __________________ [color=red]dysfunction:[/color] soyo dragon kt880 - antec 1080amg case - koolance exos liquid cooler - rev b xp 2700+ - corsair cmx512-3200c2pro x4 - wd se 80g x4 raid 0 - yamaha crw f1ze cd burner- sony dru 720a dvd burner - sony dru 510a dvd brnr - audigy 2zs plat - logitech z680's - ati aiw 9700 pro - ideazon crossfire kb - ms inteli 4.0 mse - view sonic a90f+ 19" monitor - antec tru480w psu - belkin 900va ups - xp home/sp2/dx 9.0 [color=palegreen]impulse:[/color] abit av8 mb - coolermaster wave case - coolermaster aerogate II thermal controller - coolermaster cooldrive hd hsf x2 - zalman reserator 1 liquid cooling - fx 53 - 4 gigs corsair twinx cmx1024-3200pt - wd 74g raptor x2 - plextor px712a dvd brnr - audigy 4 pro - klipsch pro media ultra 5.1- sony studio monitor headphone mdr700 - evga 6800 ultra - nec fe2111sb blk 22" monitor - ideazon doom3 kb - razer diamondback mse - coolergiant 480w psu - belkin 900va ups - xp home/sp2dx 9.0 [color=blue]fair and balanced posting[/color]

Jun 4, 2006, 10:38 AM	#4
Pompey DriverHeaven Addict Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Wellington, New Zealand Posts: 362 Rep Power: 0	I am worries about the military rise of china. At least in America people who opposed the Iraq war were free to do so and there has been wide spread debate over the invasion (or liberation if you want to call it that). If China was to invade another country there would be no debate. __________________ One's inability to find an answer to a question does not imply that the question has no answer.

Jun 4, 2006, 03:16 PM	#9
Falstaff Old Codger Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: USAFA Posts: 19,048 Rep Power: 207	All the western nations are worried, so to speak, that is why even in war we are in bed with countries that argueably we would have never dealt with. We support communist forces during WWII and we are very familiar with their methods and tactics, but the economic battlefield is less tangible and more powerful than we could have imagined say perhaps 20 years ago, while this giant slept. But now, China rises with India as a huge technical and financial powerhouse on the edge of dominating world markets, we did it for along time, makes sense to be keenly aware of the economic enviornment outside our borders. But the average citizen will never feel it, not yet at least. __________________ "Inspiration is always a surprising visitor."

Jun 4, 2006, 08:33 PM	#14
SFOSOK 939 Goin Strong Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Ontario Posts: 7,033 Rep Power: 90 System Specs	America can't end without ending everyone else, too many nukes. __________________ Warning - Explicit Content Preceeding METAL!!

Jun 3, 2006, 06:47 PM	#2
Necrosis HardwareHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Ohio Posts: 8,838 Rep Power: 131 System Specs	America worried..maybe so but the rest of the planet should be concerned as well. It's a lot easier to move forces around on a continent then move them a across an ocean.

Jun 4, 2006, 11:45 AM	#5
Sandok DriverHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 9,472 Rep Power: 0	That's why communism and dictatorships work... A goverment does something, and they do it... Nobody whines Anyways, America can't be a superpower forever... It's economy is bad recently, their world opinion is even lower than with Reagan (which nobody thought possible) and with the rise of outsourcing and huge economic dev of poorer countries like India and China, the US is screwed.

Jun 4, 2006, 07:13 PM	Thread Starter #12
violat3 DriverHeaven Addict Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Caledonia Posts: 348 Rep Power: 0	currently they are finishing off/refitting the former Soviet aircraft carrier Varyag (sister ship of the Kuznetsov) ... they have major plans to build several aircraft carriers they are already with India & Russia planning the next generation of battle tanks, Air superiority fighter and naval power .... rumour has it that China wants to buy at least one of Russia's 4 Kirov class battle cruisers (the largest warships built since ww2 aircraft carriers not included) their role is to stalk a enemy battle fleet and take out aircraft carriers with their shipwreck missles ... stealth technologies were used to build the warship ... apparently it leaves the signature of a frigate or small destroyer

Jun 4, 2006, 10:27 PM	#17
OldBuzzard DH's oldest Geek Join Date: May 2003 Location: Oberlin, OH Posts: 2,783 Rep Power: 145 System Specs	Sandok, a little 'light reading' for you http://article.nationalreview.com/?q...jRiYzJjMzM2N2U= Part of which says: The economic recovery we’re now enjoying is a dramatic supply-side success story. After 9 quarters of declining business investment, the 2003 tax-rate cuts triggered a dramatic reversal: 12 consecutive quarters of rising business investment. For the past three years the economy has grown at a brisk 3.9 percent rate, almost a full percentage point faster than the postwar average. The economy has created more than 5 million jobs, delivering the largest labor force in American history. Unemployment has fallen from 6.2 percent to 4.7 percent, significantly lower than the forecast prior to the rate cuts. Wages, meanwhile, are rising: In the past year, average wages increased by 3.8 percent, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics. As for the markets, the Dow stood at 8,600 when the Senate passed the investor rates cuts three years ago. Even with its recent correction, it now stands over 11,000, a stunning 30 percent jump. The markets have created more than $5 trillion of shareholder wealth. Dividend increases are up 72 percent and dividend cash is up 40 percent. Not surprisingly, all this growth has had the net effect of throwing off more tax revenues. Corporate income tax revenues grew by 40 percent in two consecutive years. Overall federal revenue was up 5.5 percent in 2004 and a stunning 14.5 percent last year. Capital-gains tax revenues are higher than they were projected to be before the rate cuts. And the 2005 deficit was only 2.6 percent of GDP, lower than it was every single year from 1980 to 1994 — hardly cause for alarm. Bad economy? I think not. __________________ When looking for a reason as to why things go wrong, never rule out sheer STUPIDITY

Jun 4, 2006, 10:45 PM	#19
Falstaff Old Codger Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: USAFA Posts: 19,048 Rep Power: 207	China is going through a sort of political evolution, the same that pushed aside Maoist principals and doctrine and as the old guard dies off, and is replaced with the current and up and coming members of the regime, they fully intend I believe to use whatever means are at their disposal just short of a military intervention to accomplish their goals. Shudder to think what a vast Armada of Communist Chinese ships and squadrons of aircraft would do to one of our partners much less us. We can sustain a three theater war with what we have for a short period of time, but a protracted engagement with such a large country would drain us and make us more vulnerable. One thing for sure, the bloody French wouldnt come to our rescue..LOL __________________ "Inspiration is always a surprising visitor."

Jun 4, 2006, 11:22 PM	#20
The_Neon_Cowboy HardwareHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: U.S.A. Posts: 16,009 Rep Power: 92 System Specs	It simple China plans to invade Taiwan and plans to be fighting the USA at the very least. In not many others. Within the next decade if not the next few years.. They are ready warned USA not to interfere with their Taiwan “plans” or they would fight us too. The independent and democratic country? of Taiwan who broke from china long ago. Their intent is clear their “bulking up”. It something you do before a major military action and Trying their hand at hiding their spending to avoid suspicion. __________________

Jun 4, 2006, 11:54 PM	#22
Necrosis HardwareHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Ohio Posts: 8,838 Rep Power: 131 System Specs	My country really being peaceful remains (war every 20-30 years) to be seen. Yes, most countries do have some sort of standing army. However, I doubt the country you in live in spends near as much as China nor has spent as much. Also about the economy here you really can't compare it to those nations since they are starting from very little. The new market is asia because still many of the people live a centuries old life style. However, still those nations you speak of most of them still have millions of people in poverty. It's the old turle, and hare story all over again. The single fact of why these nations have the business in the first place is cheap labor. The probem with that is you can't always have cheap labor so there will be a stop gab. Mexico would be on the list too if it wasn't for Nafta, and similar programs.

Jun 6, 2006, 04:30 AM	#23
AttroPheed DriverHeaven Addict Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Paris Posts: 386 Rep Power: 0	I want to move to whatever country sandok is from. Must be pretty sweet to live where there is no turmoil or political infighting. A land where superstition and the very model of the world's most perfect democratic government are kept completely seperate. A place where the crime-free streets are filled with the harmonious smiling faces of gainfully employed persons of every race, color, and creed and the bustling economy has turning most people into self-sustaining millionaires. As soon as I arrived, I'd go right over to sandok's great big glass house and help him throw stones. __________________ "Facts seldom interfere with belief." - James Randi "Where knowledge ends, superstition begins." - Some Guy "A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence." - David Hume [COLOR=red]Flying Spaghetti Is Lord!![/COLOR] My PC Stats

Jun 6, 2006, 03:04 PM	#25
AttroPheed DriverHeaven Addict Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Paris Posts: 386 Rep Power: 0	Attro Googles a map to see where the hell switzerland is. is looking around up by finland and shit. Feels stupid when he realizes it shares a border with the fucking country he currently lives in! Whoa we're neighbors! But dammit, trying to rip on switzerland is tough. How about "Your furniture assembly instruction sheets are fucking useless!" or "Switzerland is an entire nation of people who never move their back row when they play checkers!" (a dig at neutrality) or "The tiny marshmallows in Swiss Miss cocoa gobble balls!". I could call every swiss person who was alive during the war a nazi sympathizer but that's pretty dated and since pretty much anyone in the world with the means was making money on the holocaust too I'd just get shut down. pff Fuck it. Yanks suck. Semi-literate fundies are going to be the demise of us all... or whatever the thread was about. Politics bore me. I'm one of the 70% of Americans that doesn't vote and one of the brave few willing to admit to living in France (which I also had to search for on a map when I learned I was moving here.) __________________ "Facts seldom interfere with belief." - James Randi "Where knowledge ends, superstition begins." - Some Guy "A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence." - David Hume [COLOR=red]Flying Spaghetti Is Lord!![/COLOR] My PC Stats

Jun 6, 2006, 03:31 PM	#26
Sandok DriverHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 9,472 Rep Power: 0	What are you talking about? Ikea is SWEDISH, not swiss mate... The CEO just lives here... That was GOLDEN! And about WW2, the swiss helped both the nazi's and the resistance... That's part of being neutral, you help anyone who asks and we did accept MANY jews in the country! Anyways, we are rich and live in cookoo clocks with tons of chocolate, what's wrong with that?

Jun 7, 2006, 05:13 PM	#29
Nacht ein Krieger Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Clemson Uni Posts: 3,127 Rep Power: 0	I'll answer the thread title. Nope. Business as usual.

Jun 7, 2006, 05:18 PM	#30
Sandok DriverHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 9,472 Rep Power: 0	I take it Night you didn't read the thread?