Energy Part 2

JOEBIALEK · Jun 21, 2006, 11:17 PM

In response to the article appearing in most major newspapers across the country concerning the $8.4 billion profit reported by Exxon. Concern over profits by this oil company has brought about accusations of gouging the American consumer. According to the article, "CEOs from Exxon and its industry peers have already appeared twice at Senate hearings and were asked to justify their profits shortly after reporting them to shareholders." This has to be an American first. I have never heard of a company being called to justify it's profits. One wonders if an extension of this idea could be made to other companies in other industries as well.

Per the article, "Lawmakers believe the profits are made on the backs of consumers who are paying a national average of $2.91 a gallon - 68 cents more than last year. Exxon says a strong commodities market combined with fortuitous planning and prudent management are producing record numbers." This should make Americans ask the fundamental question: what is the difference between what a public non-profit utility company provides and what a private for-profit oil company provides? Afterall, they both sell energy to all United States citizens. The difference is that natural gas and electricity are sold in the form of a public good whereas oil is sold in the form of a private good. Accordingly, on the grounds of promoting national security, the United States Congress should convert all oil companies to utility companies. This would eliminate the windfall profits and force the oil industry to earn just enough income to cover operating expenses just as natural gas and electric utility companies are required to do. The resulting drop in gasoline prices would further stimulate the economy and lighten the energy stranglehold upon the United States by the Middle East. It would also eliminate the influence of the oil lobby. In this case, desperate times call for deliberate measures.

SFOSOK · Jun 22, 2006, 01:53 AM

Make me care!

Something says I should care but for some strange reason I don't.

Frankly its not possible. Oil companies are not strictly American companies. If forced as a utility they would simply shut us out. If it was however a world standard that oil should be a utility then they would have no choice as there would be no one else to sell to.

We are too far away from that as the world is no where near united enough to make decision against the major oil companies + they have too much money and influence. Oil companies know that without a drastic surge in oil prices things will stay the same as they have always been.

The only real solution is to move away from our dependancy on oil. I've read that an econmic Hybrid car that averages about 50 mpg pays for the extra cost of the car in about 2-3 years with saved money at the pump.

Nacht · Jun 22, 2006, 02:53 AM

Quote:

force the oil industry to earn just enough income to cover operating expenses

I'm not even sure how to respond to this. I'll get back to you.

What purpose would this serve? It would hurt the economy, not help it. If you're looking for a way to stiffle innovation and destroy property rights/capitalism, you've found it.

Pompey · Jun 22, 2006, 10:11 AM

High oil prices are a bad thing? Lets look at the positives:

-Makes extraction of oil through more expensive means like tar sands more viable.
-Increases investment into alternative sources
- makes alternative energy sources more commercially viable.
-People switch to Public transport or car pooling, which has great environmental benefits and will also reduce traffic.
-People buy more efficient cars, which is good for the environment.

Locke1632 · Jun 22, 2006, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pompey

High oil prices are a bad thing? Lets look at the positives:

-Makes extraction of oil through more expensive means like tar sands more viable.
-Increases investment into alternative sources
- makes alternative energy sources more commercially viable.
-People switch to Public transport or car pooling, which has great environmental benefits and will also reduce traffic.
-People buy more efficient cars, which is good for the environment.

Yes but are you looking at the negatives? America's dependency on oil is too great and the alternative methods discovered are not implemented into the system for one of two reasons: It is not even close to being efficient (i.e. one spends more then one makes in the process) or there isn't enough of it. As for car pools, that still wastes gas and what happens when we run out of gas? Or a even worse scenario happens: Middle East coutries refuse to give us any gas. Now how will that go? Bush invades all of Middle East to get oil. We can barely contain Iraq and all our other off-country bases much less all of the Middle East. Even if we could contain everything over there (which we coulnd't because, historically, the people of the Middle East, when enslaved, tend to rebel. With the more availability of weapons that could potentially attack the masses we do NOT want this.) we would still have to deal with the outcry of other countries. Sounds just peachy, eh?

Anyway after that ramble there are more flaws in that. First off our fuel effecient cars are around 30mpg-40mpg. That just simply won't hold up to much.

Pompey · Jun 23, 2006, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Yes but are you looking at the negatives? America's dependency on oil is too great and the alternative methods discovered are not implemented into the system for one of two reasons: It is not even close to being efficient (i.e. one spends more then one makes in the process) or there isn't enough of it. As for car pools, that still wastes gas and what happens when we run out of gas?

Artificialy lowering prices does not solve that, if anything it exascerbates it. As You pointed out what happens when we run out of oil? With hig oil prices, investing in the development of alternative resources becomes commericaly viable. As the cost of oil increases it becomes economical for companies to invest in efficency. Eventuay one of two things happen: Oil prices drop because demand has deminished ( basic supply vs. demand) or we eventualy ween ourselves off oil. If we go down the road of subsidies and price contols there is no motivation for the private sector to invest in alternative technologys or efficecy. Then, when the oil runs out we are totaly screwed.

how does car pooling waste gas? It saves it! One car carring 2 people uses less fuel than 2 cars carring one person each. Carpooling is a conservation measure - it reduces consumption.

Nacht · Jun 23, 2006, 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pompey

Artificialy lowering prices does not solve that, if anything it exascerbates it. As You pointed out what happens when we run out of oil? With hig oil prices, investing in the development of alternative resources becomes commericaly viable. As the cost of oil increases it becomes economical for companies to invest in efficency. Eventuay one of two things happen: Oil prices drop because demand has deminished ( basic supply vs. demand) or we eventualy ween ourselves off oil. If we go down the road of subsidies and price contols there is no motivation for the private sector to invest in alternative technologys or efficecy. Then, when the oil runs out we are totaly screwed.

Nicely said!

Never underestimate the power of private enterprises. Effeciency is the name of their game.

Randomletters · Jun 25, 2006, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Green Death Flavor

The only real solution is to move away from our dependancy on oil. I've read that an econmic Hybrid car that averages about 50 mpg pays for the extra cost of the car in about 2-3 years with saved money at the pump.

Not really a soloution(Or true) The electric motors are also rediculously expensive, once your past the warranty, what ever savings you think you got at the pump would quickly disappear once mechanic bills and parts pile up.

SFOSOK · Jun 25, 2006, 11:52 PM

I guess thats why it pays to know how to fix your own car : ). I seriously doubt mechanics bills could counteract the saved money on gas. I knew a person in VA thats had theirs for about 3 years now and not a single problem with it....

I'd say stick to what you know rather than what you read...

calidan · Jun 26, 2006, 04:30 AM

If people would buy stock in these companies then they would get a share in the profits.

SFOSOK · Jun 26, 2006, 05:27 AM

O sorry about that post RL, I know I probably sounded like an asshole. Been in a bad mood most the day with this freak anxiety crap.

Nacht · Jun 26, 2006, 07:03 PM

Hybrid cars are pointless, heres a few reasons why.

-They make horrible cars. The prius has a 0-60 of about 15 seconds I think, and Can't even break 100mph. Combine this with its added weight and sluggish handling, and it isn't much of a car.

-Added expense for having 2 engines in the car

-Fairly low savings on gas. The prius averages 55 mpg from tests I've seen (they claim 65, I believe). This sounds good, until you look at other cars such as the 2006 Jetta TDI, which has gotten as high as 75mpg in some tests. This is what breaks the deal, as saving money on gas is the only real reason for buying a hybrid.

Sandok · Jun 26, 2006, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nacht

Hybrid cars are pointless, heres a few reasons why.

-They make horrible cars. The prius has a 0-60 of about 15 seconds I think, and Can't even break 100mph. Combine this with its added weight and sluggish handling, and it isn't much of a car.

-Added expense for having 2 engines in the car

-Fairly low savings on gas. The prius averages 55 mpg from tests I've seen (they claim 65, I believe). This sounds good, until you look at other cars such as the 2006 Jetta TDI, which has gotten as high as 75mpg in some tests. This is what breaks the deal, as saving money on gas is the only real reason for buying a hybrid.

Your first argument is bullocks since the LexusGX759 thingy has A TON of power from it's petrol and blitzes lotsa cars.

I agree with that second point...

And the third point is the killer! A Lupo Diesel does 75mpg too... That's just ownage! But diesel hybrids can apparently do EVEN more...

Nacht · Jun 27, 2006, 04:53 AM

well, my idea with the first point was a reasonable car is gonna be...sub par. The prius is probably the best example of a hybrid on the road today. It's in the middle range of them, I think. Of course a lexus is gonna perform better!

But yea, I honestly thing turbo diesels running biodiesel fuel are the way of the future, until we get past the internal combustion engine.

JOEBIALEK · Jul 21, 2006, 01:41 AM

good points...

Pompey · Jul 21, 2006, 11:29 AM

The oil prices affect Nth America and Australasia more than Europe I think, just because our lifestyles and the layout of our towns and cities are so different.

Jun 21, 2006, 11:17 PM	#1
JOEBIALEK DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 8 Rep Power: 0	Energy Part 2 In response to the article appearing in most major newspapers across the country concerning the $8.4 billion profit reported by Exxon. Concern over profits by this oil company has brought about accusations of gouging the American consumer. According to the article, "CEOs from Exxon and its industry peers have already appeared twice at Senate hearings and were asked to justify their profits shortly after reporting them to shareholders." This has to be an American first. I have never heard of a company being called to justify it's profits. One wonders if an extension of this idea could be made to other companies in other industries as well. Per the article, "Lawmakers believe the profits are made on the backs of consumers who are paying a national average of $2.91 a gallon - 68 cents more than last year. Exxon says a strong commodities market combined with fortuitous planning and prudent management are producing record numbers." This should make Americans ask the fundamental question: what is the difference between what a public non-profit utility company provides and what a private for-profit oil company provides? Afterall, they both sell energy to all United States citizens. The difference is that natural gas and electricity are sold in the form of a public good whereas oil is sold in the form of a private good. Accordingly, on the grounds of promoting national security, the United States Congress should convert all oil companies to utility companies. This would eliminate the windfall profits and force the oil industry to earn just enough income to cover operating expenses just as natural gas and electric utility companies are required to do. The resulting drop in gasoline prices would further stimulate the economy and lighten the energy stranglehold upon the United States by the Middle East. It would also eliminate the influence of the oil lobby. In this case, desperate times call for deliberate measures.

Jun 22, 2006, 01:53 AM	#2
SFOSOK 939 Goin Strong Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Ontario Posts: 7,033 Rep Power: 90 System Specs	Make me care! Something says I should care but for some strange reason I don't. Frankly its not possible. Oil companies are not strictly American companies. If forced as a utility they would simply shut us out. If it was however a world standard that oil should be a utility then they would have no choice as there would be no one else to sell to. We are too far away from that as the world is no where near united enough to make decision against the major oil companies + they have too much money and influence. Oil companies know that without a drastic surge in oil prices things will stay the same as they have always been. The only real solution is to move away from our dependancy on oil. I've read that an econmic Hybrid car that averages about 50 mpg pays for the extra cost of the car in about 2-3 years with saved money at the pump. __________________ Warning - Explicit Content Preceeding METAL!!

Jun 22, 2006, 10:11 AM	#4
Pompey DriverHeaven Addict Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Wellington, New Zealand Posts: 362 Rep Power: 0	High oil prices are a bad thing? Lets look at the positives: -Makes extraction of oil through more expensive means like tar sands more viable. -Increases investment into alternative sources - makes alternative energy sources more commercially viable. -People switch to Public transport or car pooling, which has great environmental benefits and will also reduce traffic. -People buy more efficient cars, which is good for the environment. __________________ One's inability to find an answer to a question does not imply that the question has no answer.

Jun 25, 2006, 11:52 PM	#9
SFOSOK 939 Goin Strong Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Ontario Posts: 7,033 Rep Power: 90 System Specs	I guess thats why it pays to know how to fix your own car : ). I seriously doubt mechanics bills could counteract the saved money on gas. I knew a person in VA thats had theirs for about 3 years now and not a single problem with it.... I'd say stick to what you know rather than what you read... __________________ Warning - Explicit Content Preceeding METAL!!

Jun 26, 2006, 04:30 AM	#10
calidan Frozen in Carbonite Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 1,409 Rep Power: 0 System Specs	If people would buy stock in these companies then they would get a share in the profits. __________________ Steam Community :: ID :: calidan "Don't try to be like Jackie. There is only one Jackie.... Study computers instead." - Jackie Chan

Jun 26, 2006, 05:27 AM	#11
SFOSOK 939 Goin Strong Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Ontario Posts: 7,033 Rep Power: 90 System Specs	O sorry about that post RL, I know I probably sounded like an asshole. Been in a bad mood most the day with this freak anxiety crap. __________________ Warning - Explicit Content Preceeding METAL!!

Jun 26, 2006, 07:03 PM	#12
Nacht ein Krieger Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Clemson Uni Posts: 3,127 Rep Power: 0	Hybrid cars are pointless, heres a few reasons why. -They make horrible cars. The prius has a 0-60 of about 15 seconds I think, and Can't even break 100mph. Combine this with its added weight and sluggish handling, and it isn't much of a car. -Added expense for having 2 engines in the car -Fairly low savings on gas. The prius averages 55 mpg from tests I've seen (they claim 65, I believe). This sounds good, until you look at other cars such as the 2006 Jetta TDI, which has gotten as high as 75mpg in some tests. This is what breaks the deal, as saving money on gas is the only real reason for buying a hybrid.

Jun 27, 2006, 04:53 AM	#14
Nacht ein Krieger Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Clemson Uni Posts: 3,127 Rep Power: 0	well, my idea with the first point was a reasonable car is gonna be...sub par. The prius is probably the best example of a hybrid on the road today. It's in the middle range of them, I think. Of course a lexus is gonna perform better! But yea, I honestly thing turbo diesels running biodiesel fuel are the way of the future, until we get past the internal combustion engine.

Jul 21, 2006, 01:41 AM	Thread Starter #15
JOEBIALEK DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 8 Rep Power: 0	good points... good points...

Jul 21, 2006, 11:29 AM	#16
Pompey DriverHeaven Addict Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Wellington, New Zealand Posts: 362 Rep Power: 0	The oil prices affect Nth America and Australasia more than Europe I think, just because our lifestyles and the layout of our towns and cities are so different. __________________ One's inability to find an answer to a question does not imply that the question has no answer.