Defense for Turky ok'd.

~~ByteMe~~ · Feb 17, 2003, 04:13 AM

Just saw it on CNN. About time. I wonder what the US had to "do" to pull this off.

Falstaff · Feb 17, 2003, 04:18 AM

We improve their harbours, install the hardware, bring the troops in, improve their roads, imrprove their economy, improve their early warning systems, leave the patriot missle batteries, train their troops, create the Aegis over turkey we enjoy over the united states, and when it is all over and we have won......we leave it all with the Turks, how could they lose....

~~ByteMe~~ · Feb 17, 2003, 04:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by fallang_jeff
We improve their harbours, install the hardware, bring the troops in, improve their roads, imrprove their economy, improve their early warning systems, leave the patriot missle batteries, train their troops, create the Aegis over turkey we enjoy over the united states, and when it is all over and we have won......we leave it all with the Turks, how could they lose....

Yea, I was wondering what the US had to give to other countries to get their approval.

Falstaff · Feb 17, 2003, 04:36 AM

It doesn't take a president Bush either, the list is long and distinguished, my father was stationed at a Troposheric monitoring site during the seventies in Incirlik, he was always impressed the "Oscars" the name for the Turkish Army. All these guys need are better weapons, they kicked British butt with less..

JavaFox · Feb 17, 2003, 04:42 AM

Good. At least NATO diplomats are living up to their charter.

Falstaff · Feb 17, 2003, 04:55 AM

I can still recall the UN charter, had to learn when I went to school overseas, I went to high school in Iraklion Crete, and the greek kids all have to learn these two at least. I can still recall article 51.....NOTHING IN THE CHARTER SHALL IMPAIR THE RIGHT OF INDIVIDUAL OR COLLECTIVE SELF DEFENCE, SHOULD AN ARMED ATTACK OCCUR AGAINST ANY MEMBER OF THE U.N., UNTIL THE SECURITY COUNCIL TAKES MEASURES NECESSARY TO MAINTAIN INTERNATIONAL PEACE. MEASURES CAN BE TAKEN TO EXERCISE THE RIGHT OF SELF DEFENSE AND BE IMMEDIATELY REPORTED TO THE SECURITY CONCIL AND WILL NOT IN ANYWAY AFFECT THE AUTHORITY OR RESPONSIBILITY OF THE COUNCIL UNDER THE PRESENT CHARTER TO TAKE AT ANY TIME ANY ACTION AS IT DEEMS NECESSARY IN ORDER TO MAINTAIN AND RESTORE INTERNATIONAL PEACE AND SECURITY, whew!, that is all I can recall, article 3 is similiar as well.

raid517 · Feb 18, 2003, 11:49 PM

This was always going to happen. All this was was a few members making a point. As soon as the UN report came out, all the full time members fell on board. This is close to what happened at the EU yesterday, when Blair cleverly and subtly put together a form of wording that all members could agree to. This shows the value of careful diplomacy - and that sustained diplomatic effort can yield results. (And win friends in the process too). I don't think its feasible to 'bribe' individual nation states within an alliance such as NATO. NATO is a military organisation, so its a bit like saying the world's police force is tying to bribe itself. To say that NATO is corrupt takes a long stretch of the imagination. Simply being able to suggest it does not make it true. On another note, outside of the remit of NATO, Turkey very much is being bribed to support the war, although so far she has held out and refused to offer her full support. (Even this is a tad naive as it is likely that Turkey is waiting like many others to see what way the wind blows before making a decision).

But I guess for a relatively poor third world type economy, this is hardly surprising.

Q

UberLord · Feb 19, 2003, 12:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ByteMe
I wonder what the US had to "do" to pull this off.

Sure you got the right forum

:say:

FuNsTeR · Feb 19, 2003, 04:44 PM

France was not involved in that comitee and both Germany and Belguim refused to help turkey at this time ... only in event of attack will theese countries help .... unlike other countries they are not sheep

raid517 · Mar 3, 2003, 07:47 PM

Lol ironic isn't it? First the French and Germans were sub human animals for refusing to support Turkey until they had seen the UN's report. Then the Turks were swindling SOB's for trying to screw America out of billions in aid and reparations, then when Turkey tells America that no money in the world is enough to make them agree to something they find completely unacceptable, they get criticised as traitors and being unsupportive of American interests. Well whatever suits the mood I guess, so long as this American administration gets what it wants. (Only this time it looks like it hasn't).

Q

JavaFox · Mar 3, 2003, 08:06 PM

Nah. The Turks were pretty evenly divided in their vote and seeing as how they share a border with Iraq, it's well within their rights to refuse us. I have a feeling they will come around, but even if they don't, we have Diego Garcia, Qatar, aircraft carriers.

~~bluelight~~ · Mar 3, 2003, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JavaFox
Nah. The Turks were pretty evenly divided in their vote and seeing as how they share a border with Iraq, it's well within their rights to refuse us. I have a feeling they will come around, but even if they don't, we have Diego Garcia, Qatar, aircraft carriers.

It is ok for them a Nato meber to refuse!!?? But it is not okj for France to ask thjat the inspections continue??!!

Well.....i have been waiting for Turkey to be portraited as Nazis in American satire as France was when they refused to place weapons at that stage...

BlueLight

Feb 17, 2003, 04:13 AM	#1
~~ByteMe~~ Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 761 Rep Power: 0	Defense for Turky ok'd. Just saw it on CNN. About time. I wonder what the US had to "do" to pull this off.

Feb 17, 2003, 04:18 AM	#2
Falstaff Old Codger Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: USAFA Posts: 19,048 Rep Power: 207	It's simple We improve their harbours, install the hardware, bring the troops in, improve their roads, imrprove their economy, improve their early warning systems, leave the patriot missle batteries, train their troops, create the Aegis over turkey we enjoy over the united states, and when it is all over and we have won......we leave it all with the Turks, how could they lose.... __________________ "Inspiration is always a surprising visitor."

Feb 17, 2003, 04:36 AM	#4
Falstaff Old Codger Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: USAFA Posts: 19,048 Rep Power: 207	Now you know It doesn't take a president Bush either, the list is long and distinguished, my father was stationed at a Troposheric monitoring site during the seventies in Incirlik, he was always impressed the "Oscars" the name for the Turkish Army. All these guys need are better weapons, they kicked British butt with less.. __________________ "Inspiration is always a surprising visitor."

Feb 17, 2003, 04:55 AM	#6
Falstaff Old Codger Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: USAFA Posts: 19,048 Rep Power: 207	ARTICLE 3 & 51 I can still recall the UN charter, had to learn when I went to school overseas, I went to high school in Iraklion Crete, and the greek kids all have to learn these two at least. I can still recall article 51.....NOTHING IN THE CHARTER SHALL IMPAIR THE RIGHT OF INDIVIDUAL OR COLLECTIVE SELF DEFENCE, SHOULD AN ARMED ATTACK OCCUR AGAINST ANY MEMBER OF THE U.N., UNTIL THE SECURITY COUNCIL TAKES MEASURES NECESSARY TO MAINTAIN INTERNATIONAL PEACE. MEASURES CAN BE TAKEN TO EXERCISE THE RIGHT OF SELF DEFENSE AND BE IMMEDIATELY REPORTED TO THE SECURITY CONCIL AND WILL NOT IN ANYWAY AFFECT THE AUTHORITY OR RESPONSIBILITY OF THE COUNCIL UNDER THE PRESENT CHARTER TO TAKE AT ANY TIME ANY ACTION AS IT DEEMS NECESSARY IN ORDER TO MAINTAIN AND RESTORE INTERNATIONAL PEACE AND SECURITY, whew!, that is all I can recall, article 3 is similiar as well. __________________ "Inspiration is always a surprising visitor."

Feb 19, 2003, 04:44 PM	#9
FuNsTeR Caledonian and Proud Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Darkest Ayrshire Posts: 1,305 Rep Power: 88 System Specs	France was not involved in that comitee and both Germany and Belguim refused to help turkey at this time ... only in event of attack will theese countries help .... unlike other countries they are not sheep __________________ "They say when you play a Microsoft CD backwards you can hear satanic messages ..... but that's nothing, if you play it forward it will install Windows"

Feb 17, 2003, 04:42 AM	#5
JavaFox E Pluribus Unum Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 3,203 Rep Power: 0	Good. At least NATO diplomats are living up to their charter.

Feb 18, 2003, 11:49 PM	#7
raid517 DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 2,518 Rep Power: 0	This was always going to happen. All this was was a few members making a point. As soon as the UN report came out, all the full time members fell on board. This is close to what happened at the EU yesterday, when Blair cleverly and subtly put together a form of wording that all members could agree to. This shows the value of careful diplomacy - and that sustained diplomatic effort can yield results. (And win friends in the process too). I don't think its feasible to 'bribe' individual nation states within an alliance such as NATO. NATO is a military organisation, so its a bit like saying the world's police force is tying to bribe itself. To say that NATO is corrupt takes a long stretch of the imagination. Simply being able to suggest it does not make it true. On another note, outside of the remit of NATO, Turkey very much is being bribed to support the war, although so far she has held out and refused to offer her full support. (Even this is a tad naive as it is likely that Turkey is waiting like many others to see what way the wind blows before making a decision). But I guess for a relatively poor third world type economy, this is hardly surprising. Q

Mar 3, 2003, 07:47 PM	#10
raid517 DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 2,518 Rep Power: 0	Lol ironic isn't it? First the French and Germans were sub human animals for refusing to support Turkey until they had seen the UN's report. Then the Turks were swindling SOB's for trying to screw America out of billions in aid and reparations, then when Turkey tells America that no money in the world is enough to make them agree to something they find completely unacceptable, they get criticised as traitors and being unsupportive of American interests. Well whatever suits the mood I guess, so long as this American administration gets what it wants. (Only this time it looks like it hasn't). Q

Mar 3, 2003, 08:06 PM	#11
JavaFox E Pluribus Unum Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 3,203 Rep Power: 0	Nah. The Turks were pretty evenly divided in their vote and seeing as how they share a border with Iraq, it's well within their rights to refuse us. I have a feeling they will come around, but even if they don't, we have Diego Garcia, Qatar, aircraft carriers.