Sound of justice and freedom

Usa_anti_war

"A war can end when the soldiers choose to stop fighting it." Lt. Ehren Watada



“I’ve come to believe this is an illegal and an immoral war, and the order to have us deploy to Iraq is unlawful. I won’t follow this order and I won’t participate in something I believe is wrong.” Lt. Ehren Watada


Thank you Lt. Ehren Watada for refusing an illegal war , all of us are standing up with you for your courage in taking your decision, and believe that we can all learn something from your courage.


"NO" for war and oppression, "YES" for peace and justice.


Here , you will find all the truths about Lt. Ehren Watada

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Thanks...ns/message/735


Stand with us , with Lt. Watada, Suzanne Swift , with justice and freedom
With Cindy Sheehan and all those who lost their loved ones in Iraq.

Join us in this group , join the sound of justice and freedom , and you will find all events and news , anti- war, anti- opression, anti- tyranny.


Join Camp Casey August 16th-Sept 2nd 2006

Cindy Sheehan and Gold Star Families for Peace will be returning to Crawford Tx. President Bush has still not satisfactorily answered our question, "What Noble Cause did our loved ones die for?" One year later we are still in the quagmire that is Iraq. As of this writing 2497 of our brave and noble military men and women have died for this Noble Cause. Join us at Camp Casey and show the President that we will not accept one more death be it American or Iraqi.

Here, you will find all details about this event

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Thanks...ns/message/686

SFOSOK

Sorry about the images. They just need to be showed to those who are force fed ignorance and believe everything someone else tells them instead of actually doin it themselves.



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SFOSOK

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_an...ss_destruction

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Gabriel_Etranil

You cannot have peace without war, and as long as their are more than two countrys on opposing sides(opposing views) war will continue.

Wasn't Saddam an Opressive Dictator

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"I want to believe the voice in my head, but it lies"

SFOSOK

Yeah, it seems all those words describe him. He is (or was) and opressive tyrant who gassed the Kurds, used chemical warfare against the Iranians. Was proven to have chemical weapons and he invaded Kuwait. He should have been dealt with a long time ago.

Not a big fan of the UN because it doesn't work, they enforce sanctions by occupation instead of actually fighting and as soon as they leave they country goes back to the way it was before.

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Pompey

Oh yeah, becuase the invasion of Iraq has gone so well.

Heres a quote from your own link:

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One's inability to find an answer to a question does not imply that the question has no answer.

SFOSOK

Thats a small quote from a very large link lol. There was evidence of Chemical weapons during the 90's. Indisputible evidence. Now if you were a ruthless dictator and you were about to be invaded by the most powerful country on the planet, what would you do to undermine their war effort?


O I don't know maybe ship all the munitions to Syria and Iran.


Edit: O I'm guessin the gassing of the Kurds never happened and it was all a set up by the US to eventually invade now to use Chemical weapons as the reason.

The Kurds were gassed, and as you have seen by the chart on the site Iraq has been using Chemical warfare since the 1980's.


anything else?

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Pompey

That was more than a decade ago; there is no evidence of Iraq having WMD's since sanctions were imposed. There is no evidence that Saddam had a weapons program in place, the basis for the American led invasion. All Saddam cared about was keeping control of his little kingdom and exploiting it for his lavish lifestyle.

And your argument is a mere conspiracy theory. The fact is no weapons were found. If you are claiming Saddam got them out of the country then you have to substantiate it. There is 'evidence' pointing to possible transfers but nothing concrete.

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One's inability to find an answer to a question does not imply that the question has no answer.

Alien1

Man these SFOSOK guy along with his friend BWX must be in the George Bush Worldwide political Campaign

These is the second post about War and people that are ignorant for not following the Bush idealogy etc etc (i am not going to mention the Iraq vs Usa threads from here)

Then it was Iraq VS Usa
Now Israel (USA representative in ME) VS Lebanon

Everyone that oppose their ideas is a Terrorist except them
and of course in the USA Republic ideas responding to violence with more Violence and unarmed civilian killed by the way is the only choice for them.............The Means justify the cause right ?

Hey but you know they are the "Good Guys" everyone else is "Bad"
Ow well the same USA Republican story as always

Pompey

SFOSOK, BWX.... he dosent speek for me

I dont want this to get personal.

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One's inability to find an answer to a question does not imply that the question has no answer.

Alien1

Well everyone has their opinion

If you want just to shine their American boots Pompey without beeing really involved into these it is your choice

They are already being aggressive with their political ideas trying forcing it into the rest of the world so i am also beeing aggressive into these
Nothing more personal than that

Pompey

Well I guess you’ve edited your post enough lol.
I just get sick of the whole "whiney liberal" vs. "fearmongering conservative" bitch fight.

I rarely agree with these two but agreeing is not the important thing. Seriously, who comes to these kinds of places to make friends? I come to hear others opinions and possibly debate. Just dismissing others opinions because that’s how they all think or whatever gets you nowhere.
Remeber, liberals are open-minded

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One's inability to find an answer to a question does not imply that the question has no answer.

Alien1

Well ok
but you do not need to write these below my post hiding behind me,
just for avoiding losing your "Usa friends" from here and avoid any conflict with them

As about me
i am saying what i think freely and loud as they say freely and loud what they think without beeing afraid and without taking "no" for an answer

Now if they do not like it and do not want to do nothing with me because of that, it's their problem not mine

I am not just going to shut my mouth afraiding of losing my "relationships" with some guy from the net because he only wants his opinions to pass around and everyone say "Yes sir" to him

Falstaff

liberals are open minded.....?

I dont know about that....

liberals have hindsight to their advantage...

but what is hindsight if not looking out your ass at the world all the time...

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SFOSOK

lol, it not about following someone. Its about thinking for yourself. The media (which is like 75% liberal) feeds you all bullsh*t. People just believe it without question and everything they hear is always bad. I wouldn't really consider myself a Republican or Democrat just that Republicans actually seem to get things done without whining.

Terrorism is the use of chemical warfare, genocide, suicide bombing, using violence to try and get something from another country.


Truthfully there are no "Good Guys" there is only war and the enemy. Anyone not on your team is most likely wanting to kill you. I was rasied by my brothers and their Millitary values so if that sounds ignorent then really its too bad cause I don't give a damn.


People are ignorent for not doin sh*t themselves. They just believe everything the hear and see from the news. I do believe the media is seriously trying to undermine the war effort in Iraq just so the can try to hurt Bush and his administration. Isn't that treason?





The more our country is divided the more of our soldiers die.

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SFOSOK

If they get their way they are open minded. But if they don't they through a hissy fit till they do get their way.

I aggree though, the whole political party debate never goes anywhere cause most of us were raised on a party by our family or whoever so it really can't change your stance, even if u wanted to.

I'm neither though, never gunna register to vote either lol.

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Maddogg6

Wait - your in the US military (correct?) and refuse to vote??

Your willing to DIE for your country, but NOT willing to vote for its leader - someone that that can directly decide your fate??

I dont understand logic like this. But it might explain some of our countries problems.

SFOSOK

Haven't left for basic yet but I trust my nation to make the right decision. I'm here to fight wars not to determine which ones to fight. I would like to be in the decision making process eventually as my millitary career progresses but right now I want to fight for our country. If we go to war for "the wrong reasons" and such then democracy has failed hasn't it? Democrats republicans all of it has failed. I mean if this war is such a problem and so wrong then why has democracy allowed it to happen?

Its not my choice, its something I have to do and I truthfully don't know what to vote for because both parties are full of liars. To join or vote for a particular party means that you have to go on basically what other people tell you about the person and not what you actually know. Voting is a blind leap of faith and your often torn between the lesser of two evils because there is no such thing as an honest polititian. So if there is a problem in this country it start there with both parties

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Maddogg6

Hmm - putting your 'trust' (Ill call 'responsibilities') into the hands of your peers is not something I would be proud of. Seems your justifying your lack of wanting to vote (day off work, stand in line - INVESTIGATE CANDIDATES and NOT just republican or democrat - there are usually others as well) - I mean - I dont LIKE politics either - its become something I gained interest in as my portfolio grew.

*IF* the Iraq war is wrong and democracy HAS failed - its because too many people said 'Ill let my neighbor figure out who the best (___insert official here___) would be' - Which leads to - THE ONLY ONES actually out voting are those with motivation for change - and THOSE changes arent ALWAYS good for all of us or even for the majority. Especially if your neighbors are fu*ked in the head.

Vote for SOMEONE even if 'INDEPENDANT' - its at least a message to the 'other' parties.

Besides - its NOT just ELECTIONS to vote on - there are also local issues voted on that do affect you more directly as well.

Falstaff

I've done enough fighting...
completely overrated....
in fact...it sucks...
I would rather be an old frazzeled veteran than a hero any day..
most of the ones I knew are dead...
Give me a few good United States Marines and I can assure you Hezbullah and their kith and kin would just a footnote in history...
Israel is pulling lots of punchs
Those extremists have no idea what happens when you mess with the Jews of Zion..
The boys of Palestine can tell you that...
If Israel pulls the easy opening can of whoop ass open on Lebanon all that rhetorical bullshit about waging war on Israel would be used to cleanly folded and used to clean the Lebanese mud off an Israeli soldiers boots...
Israel would do just about anything they can to thwart the radical nations of Islam in their efforts to destroy Israel...its only a matter of time before they are taught a lesson...
as they have...
time and time again....
Ask the British, ask the Lebanese, ask the Syrians, the Egyptians and Jordan as well...
mess with Jews of the Holy Land and reap the whirlwind.

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SFOSOK

I'd rather die for something than live for nothing. Just how I am I guess. I don't want to be a hero just wanna do my part.

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Pompey

So do conservatives. Its the liberals that are fighting for liberty and the conservatives trying to force their own narrow morality on everyone else (this is of course a generalisation).
Democracy is not perfect, but it has proven itself to be far superior to any other form of government we have tried.
hehe SFOSK is one of the stereotypical Americans who will go half way across the world to fight for freedom but wont cross the street to the ballot box.

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SFOSOK

suggesting a person as a stereotype only shows your closed mindedness.

Define this "Liberty" Democrats fight for. Because from I've seen all they have tried to do is undermine the entire war effort and kill our soldiers.

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OldBuzzard

"Here , you will find all the truths about Lt. Ehren Watada"

Do any of those 'truths' include the fact that the cowardly SOB joined AFTER we went into Iraq? One can only hope that his next post will be in Leavenworth.

As for whether or not Saddam had WMD just prior to the invasion, remember these two facts.
ONE, he did at one time have and USE WMDs in both the Iran/Iraq war, and against the Kurds sometime after that.
TWO, he had the world convinced that he DID have then, and even his own military commanders thought that they would have access to WMDs if/when the US invaded.

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SFOSOK

I'm for the people who keep our men and women in unfirom alive and anyone who wishes to harm them dead.

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Maddogg6

If this guy *enlisted* AFTER we invaded iraq - prosecute em...

Do you have a link to a time line on this? - because I could see this a legitimate order of events... (I googled and seen very little with dates)

1) signs up - awaits his orders to goto bootcamp
2) we invade Iraq
3) goes to boot camp hes assigned to go to Iraq
4) He refuses...

edit:
OR
1) we invade iraq on the basis sadam has WMD's
2) he enlists - goes to boot camp
3) Reports indicate no WMD's were found
4) he refuses orders to embark to Iraq..
end edit:

As a oppsed to the point you were making of
1) we invade Iraq
2) he enlists
3) goes to boot camp - he gets orders to goto iraq
4) he refuses.

I mean if what you say is fact - he doesnt have a chance in hell no matter what public opinion may be. AND because the war hasnt been 'officially' declared illegal - hes screwed anyway (as the media isnt making front page news of this story - so public opinion will not be much of a factor IMO).


Well, with that logic -
Say you were caught speeding once before ....

Now, anythime I felt like it - I can send you a new speeding ticket in the mail and expect payment - Why? - because you WERE caught once before for speeding and DMV records indicate you STILL own a vehicle capable of excessive speeds. So, I should safely assume your STILL speeding then right?

Do you think : 'innocent until proven guilty' should apply to all or just US citizens?

So here are some more facts...
1) Iraq war was *justified/sold to the public* because he supposivly had WMD's
2) no proof of WMD's existing in Iraq since the 90's
3) Which brings us to - A war was started un-justly.

Also, how would the WMD's have been moved without our knowledge - we have reliable intel sources - right? The intel was good enough to send 2500 of our troops to their death... So, what is it, can we rely on intel - or not?
Looks like NO. And this is news to our leaders huh? When UN inspectors were insistant that he DID NOT have them anymore.

I have a feeling many that are still 'pro iraq invasion', would change their tune if one of them 2500 dead, was THEIR child/loved one. Put your feet in their shoes for a bit.

Dont get me wrong, I have no doubts that Sadam was a tyrant - but there are others in asia just as bad (in terms of number of people they murder) - and we dont seem care about them... But maybe theres just no financial interest in those counties - as they ARE much poorer in resources than Iraq.


@SFOSOK:
Just curious, what your family thinks about your joining the armed forces in this 'polical' climate? Are they supportive ar against it?

OldBuzzard

Sadam had ALL of the intelligence agencys in the world convinced IMMEDIATELY PRIOR to the invasion that he had WMDs.

He was given time IMMEDIATELY PRIOR to the invasion to prove that he didn't. All he had to do was show proof that he didn't have them, and he declined to do so, and allowed us to think that he had them. It's HIS arrogance/stupidity that in the end triggered the invasion.

As for some of the 'other countries' you are 'worried' about? Give us time...we'll get around to them too.

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When looking for a reason as to why things go wrong, never rule out sheer STUPIDITY

Maddogg6

So if I act drunk in public I should be arrested for public intoxication then - right?

And - arrogance/stupidity is illegal now, and justifies wars too?? ... oh shit, better build WAY more prisons and WAY more missles.

And, his un-willingness to allow inspections?? Its NOT a strong argument - If I DONT allow a cop to search my car, does it equate to my guilt - nope.

Seems to me Bush was arrogant and iggnorant in thinking Iraq had WMD's.... He should get the same treatment... Seeing as how arrogance and stupidity are now illegal according to you.

SFOSOK

It was proven there were chemical weapons in Iraq! The Gassing of the Kurds, their use of chemical weapons in the past, satalite photos?

If I were Saddam I would have sold them to Syria because I know how dumb the american public is along with the witch hunting media who needs someone to blame fro all the problems in the world.

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Maddogg6

Yes -in the 90's but not since....

and going into Iraq WAS NOT about him killing the kurds. It was about him having WMD's...

NO evidense has been given that he's had a program since.

AND - I ll quote myself ..