digitalwanderer

WHY is he totally supporting Bush at the price of his entire political career? (And don't go telling me it's right, I want the REAL reason!)

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JavaFox

Well, firstly, I don't think you can dismiss someone's opinion just because you don't agree with it. I'm confident a lot of what drives Blair is in fact his conviction. The man honestly does agree with Bush in some ways, and that's a large part of why he supports us and our position.

But, obviously, there's more to it, too. In actuality, the British are a lot more pro-war (if that is the correct term) than you think. An article in the most recent Economist (which is a British publication) has some interesting statistics (polls conducted by EOS Gallup Europe). The Germans think military action is unjustified (without UN backing) by a strikingly large majority (more than 80%), but throw in UN support and that number drops to 50%. The same is true for France -- 80% are against "bilateral" war, but only about 30% oppose action with UN support.

Now, 70% of the British oppose bilateral war. But an incredible few oppose war provided the UN supports it -- less than 20%. And I think what this demonstrates is that the English are not anti-war per se, but only want international backing. This has a lot to do with what Blair is doing. Doubtless he thinks the British will come around.

J.Reb

1. He wants to do the what is right, same as Bush.

2. He expects to find so many WDM in Iraq that he can shove one up each liberal in Parlament, and France too.

3. He knows what ally means, and he intends to be one.

4. He has analyzed the facts for himself, and has chosen the lesser of evils.

5. He doesn't place polical career above duty.

6. All the above.

WarGun

Politics Politics...they need to play politics. until some kind of proof or Iraq messes up... then the missiles will fly.

raid517

This is a very fair assessment JF - and is exactly where I have stood all along. And for those who do not agree with diplomacy, just watch as Blair (as he has already been doing for months now) goes about the world winning support for any military action and slowly, though careful and clever negotiation, brings everyone on board. Blair is often accused of being America's lap dog, but in reality he is simply engaged in a process that America herself ought to be capable of, but somehow no longer seems able to understand. Rather than being a lap dog, Blair is genuinely concerned with the rightness and Justice of what we do. He wants to make sure that all our i's are dotted and all his our t's are crossed. He knows that if we do not, any war that is prosecuted and is seen to be illegitimate by any potential offended parties, will only serve to increase the chances of terrorism. And that if that happens this war will have proved futile.

I do often find it quite amusing to hear so many diehard (indeed in some instanced positively rabid) Republicans professing their admiration for someone who by any standards is a liberal - and who for most of their lives professed to be a "socialist". I can never quite get my head around that... But oh well, if he does eventually manage to bring everyone on board, then America and many others will have a lot to thank him for. What will have been achieved is unclear, but he will have played a very significant role in the outcome.

It is still an extremely high risk game (is war ever a game?) and could all still very easily backfire. So whether his contribution will be viewed in a positive light or not, only history alone will judge.

Q

Zardon

Tony Blair is an idiot out to further his career by being this supposed world "statesman" and getting pictures taken playing guitar while people die in his own country.

If he would concentrate more on the many problems at home, like the many problems he frequently ignores (and has for many years) in Northern Ireland he might fool more people. You guys in america may "respect" him for his continued support for Bush, but he is one of the most hated politicians in his home country. Quite frankly I cant be bothered going through the last years of his instatement as prime minister, He never could be bothered, so neither will I.

ToshiroOC

For some reason, I'm reminded of the great potato famine and the hundreds of thousands of tons of grain exported from Ireland during the famine...

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fornicatarachnid

Zardon, I find it difficult to understand your opinion of Tony Blair. I know the problems in

Northern Ireland are far from solved but at least 'something' is being done to try and sort

out what seems to me like an impossible task.

Obviously as I don't live there, I can only go off what I read in the news but as far as I

am aware, more has been done in the past 3 yrs than in the previous 30

Northern Ireland

Zardon

yes I read all that stuff and it all sounds wonderful and positive, but as very few of you live here, I doubt you would understand what goes on behind the scenes, this is why I never get involved in these debates because I start getting pissed off. Its best I dont say too much. Hopefully Mr Blair will sort out the rest of the worlds problems on his numerous high key world tours, then when he comes back and gets a little spare time.... he can maybe start looking at the UK again.

Zardon

its also vaguely amusing how all these articles seem to miss the fact that the weak UK government released from jail hundreds of terrorists in the IRA, INLA and other extremist groups to appease the republicans, those people responsible for the omagh bombings, the attacks on UK mainland and other attrocities. Peace process? is anyone aware the people who have been released are out pushing drugs now?? does anyone care? Its Like sitting watching on TV, two policemen getting butchered to death at an IRA funeral when they drove into the wrong place....... these THINGS arent shown, they are all covered up....... so many people in this forum section are so naive its incredible... its propoganda.....

What about NORAD, funding IRA from new york, boston areas for years? well known. major public visibilty. collecting money in bars. Right after Sept 11. their website shuts and we hear no more from them..........

I suppose stopping terrorists in the UK and closer places to home doesnt get as much PR as standing in the whitehouse with Mr Bush.

Dont get me started.

fornicatarachnid

I saw this on TV over here too, so obviously we are not as 'in the dark' as you make out.

I don't agree with the release of all the terrorists either, this is one thing that should

never have been allowed, they had been jailed and should have stayed there to

complete their sentences.

You say ....

.....but I would be interested to hear your views anyway. How are we supposed to tackle

this problem ??? No matter what anybody does to try and solve it, there will always be

one side that is unhappy. Like I said before, at least the Blair Government is trying to do

something.

FuNsTeR

someone else see's him for what he is ... must be the Celtic blood running through our veins .... he seeks cameras full stop .... he faces mounting crisis in Northern Ireland (should be 1 Ireland IMO ... who would want thoose unionist thugs though) and the posible threat from the Snp in the Scottish parliament elections in 6 months time (lucky his oponent is that weed Swiney) if Snp were to gain power ... goodbye UK

Scotland is being invaded by the loyalist s#um trying to take over the drugs .. protection rackets etc .... west coast of Scotland is a mirror image of N Ireland theese creeps think nothing of wiping people out ... Zardon also points out Noraid ... openly collecting money to help fund for more arms for a terrorist organisation to kill its presumed oldest ally's people ... as i have stated before it was New York's blood money that help fund the Ira to try and wipe out a entire English town by blowing up its gasworks the town is "Warrington" ... yet Americans gloryified the Ira as freedom fighters .... why did US goverments not ban this organisation?? and why should we trust a country that did not stop noraid from raising funds and trying to kill innocents ... the Ira/loyalist are the same it was always about drugs, protection rackets, prostitution etc thats what helped fund theese groups and that is what their concentrating on 100% now ... why is punishment beatings sweaped under the rug?? who are they scared to offend ?? the Loyalists ?? the republicans or themselves?? or just all 3

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Chaos

As a NON Bush supporter I figure that if Bush said bend over Blair would say how far.

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Zardon

Dont you see the total contradictions in your statements? you say that Blairs government is trying to do something? release convicted terrorists? This isnt about "sides" forni, this is about people walking the streets, those same giving public kneecappings, petrol bombing, leaking internal documents via political parties to extremist factions, people who where in jail for life sentences, back out on the streets, due to Blair appeasing Republicans. I know people who died here, I know the police are powerless, due to legislation. but im not getting into it, because the public over on the mainland dont understand what goes on here. they see the news, and think they know. but they dont. you need to live here for 30 years to even get an understanding of it.

Yes, you are right, One side is unhappy, the everyday people trying to live in a society, those trying damn hard to live a normal life, a society doomed by a weak minded government who are more interested in self, sexual escapades, greed, back handers and lies, propoganda. its leader jetting around the world on a "cruscade" to save the world while justifying possible war with little to no proof, and his own, struggling country is failing apart around his feet, from the health service to the people on the streets.

Dont for one minute think im a conservative. im not. All politicans are born liars, filled with an ego to be something and caring very little for the general public.

I am ending my input into this thread, as I dont normally get involved in this forum section due to the fact 50% of what goes on in here is utter nonsense. but it serves a purpose to let people blow off steam.

But in this case, its time some peoples eyes were opened regarding our smiling, inept prime minister with more self interests than any politican I care to remember.

fornicatarachnid

I said in my previous post that I don't understand the problems that people living in NI

face and I don't. But that doesn't mean I don't care because I do. I think it was a bit

unfair of you to say that I thought the releasing of terrorists from prison was the good

that had been done. Maybe I should never have got involved in this thread either. I try

to follow and understand what is happening over there but it is so ****ing complicated for

us to follow, just by watching/reading the news. All I know is that in the past few years

there seems to have been some progress made towards a lasting peace.

raid517

Well I don't think that's quite fair, he supported Clinton too before Bush, there are much more complex reasons for the so called 'special relationship' than you might think. But its fair to say that many people have found his contribution to the office of prime minister to be very disappointing. He was elected on a much more left wing agenda than he has thus far pursued, indeed he appears to have swung very far to the right in the way he exercises his political mandate in the UK. Nonetheless the UK has enjoyed unprecedented economic growth during his period in power, has guided the UK to the lowest unemployment figures in the last 30 years, resided over a period of record and steady low inflation, has all but eliminated terrorism (despite what the cost may have been) and has increased spending on almost every area of the public sector, including the police, health and transport. (Although because these areas tend to be financial black holes, it is often hard to see any direct benefit). So perhaps his new found right of centre politics aren't too far off the mark after all. I don't think this is just about Blair trying to further his political ambitions either, I think he feels there is a moral case in the line he has adopted, with almost 77% of the population willing to support him, providing he can get a second resolution passed at the UN. Obviously the majority of other people in the UK feel there is a moral case too, although they feel that it is vital that this moral case be backed by the majority of UN members.

They will not though be persuaded of the legality or morality of any such action, unless all parties pursue the UN route - and are seen to do so willingly.

I think this is an extremely fair perspective - and points to the likely hood that ordinary people can often seem far more sensible than their leaders.

Q