raid517

After nearly 12 years of relative peace and prosperity in Northern Iraq due to the now 'non working' policy of containment, the American administration has stuck a deal with the Turkish government that effectively serves to annex the Kurdish areas of Northern Iraq and seed them to Turkey. The Kurds and Turkey have been at war (though at a relative low intensity due to the no fly zones) for much of this 12 year period, due to the Kurds desire for an independent Republic of Kurdistan and the Turks territorial designs on the region. The Turks interest in this region is not due to ethnic allegiance, but is solely a result of the Turks desire to obtain control of the very productive oil fields in that region and to suppress all Kurdish resistance to Turkish rule. The Turkish government in Ankara has a very poor record in this area, and has been the subject of international condemnation for the treatment of the ethnic Kurds in Northern Iraq, with frequent accusations of torture, kidnap, murder and assassination. Naturally the Kurds feel they have as much to fear from the Turks as they do from Saddam Hussein and are bitterly resentful at the suggestion that a deal has been struck with Turkey that cuts them out of the picture.

It is worthwhile to remember that one of the original functions of the no fly zones was to protect the lives, prosperity and well being of the Shiets in the South, and the Kurds in the Northern territories of Iraq and to prevent oppression by Saddam's armies. However it now appears possible that the US and her partners have agreed to abandon the free people of the fledgling democratic state of Kurdistan in pursuit of some unspecified 'wider objective'. (What that objective may be at this time remains unclear and/or disputed).

The question is, is such an action like this wise? Is it wise to abandon those very people who for so long we have claimed to be protecting? Is it wise to destroy all the hopes of freedom and liberty that they have enjoyed for the last 12 years? And if it is not wise to do this, then how in any decent sense can it be justified? For the Kurds it will simply mean replacing a relatively peaceful regime (they have their own fully democratic parliament there) and loosing all of the resources which have made their new country relatively prosperous in terms of the oil fields. It is naturally Turkey's intention to strip these assets out of the country and leave the Kurds with virtually nothing.

Read more about it here.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story...892459,00.html

It is still early days and the terms of this deal could change, but the question is, if this does go through, do you find it acceptable and if so in what way? (Remember this will require trashing a democracy, subjugating a people to an oppressive and hostile foreign power and allowing this power the carte blanch authority to strip that country of all of its natural assets. Also if the Turks take the only resource the Kurds have, which is their oil, these people will be undoubtedly subjected to a long and hopeless life of oppression and poverty).

Please post your comments for an against here.

Q

bluelight

Yeah i read about this as a fact weeks ago.The article claimed that demands had been made already then for Turkey to occupie the Kurdish areas in order to allow Usa troops.

What is one to sat about that....

Well only that it follows the rest of the line in this war and that the American government is prepared to just about anything not to loose their prestige in Usa.

The war is unstoppable.There are 200 000 men down there that nobody asked the Us government to send there.Nobody is gonna send them home without finishing this the way it was planned from the beginning.

Nobody will put a veto in the security council.

The economic and diplomatic consequesnses for a country that does...would be devastating.

Normally that is called blackmail.


BlueLight

merry

I hope they know what they're doing. Turkey has always been very serious about military, teritories and such, and aquiring rich oil fields will give them a boost... If ten years from now "The Enemy" will mean "the Turks"... then we'll know if it was wise

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There is a war between the ones who say there is a war
and the ones who say there isn't.
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BWX

I guess those stupid terrorist scum lowlifes shouldn't have blown up our buildings, if they didn't we wouldn't even be having this discussion.

The_Neon_Cowboy

Gee...Normally that is called Politics......

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Dom

Who blew-up what buildings?

If your comment is in reference to 9/11 - Osama Bin Laden and Al-Qaeda did that not Iraq. There is no connection to Saddam Hussein involving 9/11.

The_Neon_Cowboy

Dear god does it allways go back to this ....... Iraq supports, harbors, funds, Al-Qaeda so yes thee is a link to Iraq in 9/11 (but a greater one to suldi arebia)

There are hundreds of posts on this subject allready and I an geting quite board with it. eveybody got a stance and thier not going to budge.... lets try to stay on topic... raid517 has brought up a good point

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Dom

Sorry, dude, but America has not precented any proof. I there was a link, I think we would of attacked Iraq before Afghanistan, after all Iraq is making "nukes", right?

The_Neon_Cowboy

Well there makeing / keeping chemical weapons and trying to make/ learn how to make nukes... I trust in the governments intelligence you have no idea what they can do... thats the whole point!!! we could go here is the proof but then we say look everyone what our intellagence/satilites can see!
We woud undetmine national security by doing so! I have seen photos declasified tooken spy satalites about a 4 x 6 , cristal clear! they also showed zooming in on his watch they could see the time!!! as if you were 1" away and zoomed in ... rember that was around 1960! it's been over 33 years technology/computers etc.. has improved so much ... they know more than you think!
why do you think the head of the CIA was setting right behind powell the whole time during him showing what they could??. those pictures were of couse the lousy ones (less zoomed it) and then blurred, we won't and cant show eveyone what we have that would be stupid. It would leave us in the dark about other counties intellagense and expose ours to the light of day! it would be very very very very BAD!!!!!
I mean if thier gonna do that they would might as well trow all our guns, bombs,etc away ... send all our milltary home, release them all from duty ... and say ok who want to take over ???! it an exaguration .... but you get my point ... you never tip your hand if you don't have to!
Also think of this we say ok heres warheads then the Iraq would have them moved.. hidden.. etc.. before anyone got there.. If they found them then Iraq might say um the US must of planted them there I mean come on this is BS


personally I think we should pull out say F U to the would and say ok you dont want it now you deal with him..... then when later when hes taking over your country ! then well say nope sorry can't help ya you said he's harmless....let him have his nukes and chemical weapons...

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Smoothdrive

Bluelight -> War is unstopable

Ridiculous..the war can be stopped within minutes all it takes is for Iraq to finally obey the UN resolutions against it..Saddam is the one who wants this war he is the one person who can stop it within a day..not The US, not the UN.

Dom -> Sorry, dude, but America has not precented any proof

Sorry also dude, America nor the UN inspectors have to prove a thing. The UN resolutions clearly states that Iraq has to prove that they destroyed the weapons..the inspectors are simply there to verify the proof that Iraq presents.

In general..the kurds..well that's a globally known problem..the basks have the same problem, the palestinians have the same problem. I feel they are better of under Turkish government than under Iraq's. Turkey is working hard to join the EU and become more of a "European" country..they can not afford to do crimes against humanity when they wish to join the EU ever.

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raid517

I'm sorry guys, but what has this got to do with the Kurds in Northern Iraq? Doesn't anyone have a view on this? Please for once stay on subject. This has nothing to do with the UN, or sanctions or whatever. The question is is it moral or just to sell out the Kurds in this way, and if so why?

If you want to argue about these other things, please do so on the other threads provided for this purpose.

Q

bluelight

Do you seriously believe that Usa wants Saddam to show what he has??

I dont.


I think there will be a war no matter what happens .The one and only thing that can stop war is if Saddam saysd that he accepts to leave office and go someplace else.....and that...will hardly happen.

Usa has not shipped 200 000 men to the mideast to play poker and then go home.


BlueLight

bluelight

No of course selling out the Kurds to Turkey is deeply immoral.Turkey has committed serious crimes against the kurds in history.Some of them that equals and goes beyond what the Serbs did to the Bosnians.

The Kurds in northern Iraq has been given the idea of freedom if they cooperate with Usa against Saddam...well..If handing them over to Turkewy is the price to get Turkey into business then i think there are certain limits in moral that is passed with margin.

BlueLight

raid517

Ok but just try to stay on subject is all. I'm bored with all that other stuff.

Q

Dom

No matter how advanced Americas intelligence is, seemingly it's useless. I mean we missed 9/11, right? Or was our intelligence not that advanced then, maybe now, more than a year later, with all the advances in technology it is useful. I mean we have photos that supposedly show clear evidence that Iraq has WMD. But I can't really tell, I'm not a photo expert, but perhaps you are and can tell better than me. Hell, someone could show me a poor quality picture of my own neighborhood, and say it was Iraq and that it shows they have WMD, but I'm not gonna believe it just because they say so.

I'm not denying Iraq has WMD, I just don't see any believable evidence. But we really do have clear evidence that North Korea has a nuke or may have it in a month; I think we should be more worried about that not some bodies personal vendettas.

raid517

Yes, but what has this got to do with the Kuds? Can't you guys read the topic heading?

Q

Dom

Sorry man, but BWX232 brought the thread off-topic.

BWX

Mwwuuuuuuuuhhhhaaaahahahahahahaha!!!!

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