Iran holohoax cartoons

**temeteus82** · Sep 6, 2006, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neshi

because then, if the whole world would go to bio-diesel, hydrogen and what not, all oilcompanys would perish and that wont let the government happen, because they earn big bucks with the oil bussines..

More reasons to get free from the grips of international oil companies...

Gabriel_Etranil · Sep 6, 2006, 07:10 PM

Until alternative sources of energy are cheaper then oil(or oil is more expensive, whichever comes first) we will remain reliant on oil.

And what do you guys think will happend if western nations are no longer reliant on the middle east for oil?

**temeteus82** · Sep 6, 2006, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gabriel_Etranil

And what do you guys think will happend if western nations are no longer reliant on the middle east for oil?

Osama runs out of guns and explosives...

pr0digal jenius · Sep 6, 2006, 08:52 PM

When the world's richest most powerful nation is run by a man who own's an oil company, and a VP who has a stake in the largest defense contracting company in the world, oil is king. Liquid Black Gooey Money.

And as for biodesiel and hydrogen and flexfuel[ethenol].....they don't yield the same kind of power...if I recall, biodiesel yields less torque and more HP, and ethenol is less torque and way more [10%-ish] HP....so that requires retooling an entire industyr...plus,my guess is biodiesel can't pass emissions

**temeteus82** · Sep 6, 2006, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pr0digal jenius

my guess is biodiesel can't pass emissions

read : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biodies...ental_benefits

Yousaif · Sep 7, 2006, 01:33 AM

More likely that the reason the switch hasn't occurred to the alternative fuels is that the switch would be cost prohibitive. Now this may not affect someone that rides the bus every day in a Scandinavian country, but it would adversely affect most of the rest of the world's population.

Its the kind of change that needs to happen, but it needs to happen over time. The infrastructure isn't in place, the manufacturing processes still aren't anywhere near ready to go out on an industrial scale, and many vehicles out there won't run on them at this time and would require expensive conversions or outright replacement.

Forgot to add welcome back Trodas.

**temeteus82** · Sep 7, 2006, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yousaif

More likely that the reason the switch hasn't occurred to the alternative fuels is that the switch would be cost prohibitive. Now this may not affect someone that rides the bus every day in a Scandinavian country, but it would adversely affect most of the rest of the world's population.

That's why there must bee more R&D in that area to make the switch more cheap. But in only thing what is the problem is money. So if investors or companies would put money on R&D in this area the switch should bee smother.

Pompey · Sep 7, 2006, 10:10 AM

Quote:

That's why there must bee more R&D in that area to make the switch more cheap. But in only thing what is the problem is money. So if investors or companies would put money on R&D in this area the switch should bee smother.

Its not R&D that’s the problem.

Its the cost of things like building ethanol plants and modifying the existing car fleet to run on ethanol. There are cars that can run entirely on ethanol, but for large scale use to be feasible petrol stations will need to be converted, plants built and farms will have to adapt.

And I feel I just had to add this:
"OMG fossil fuels are destroying the environment, lets burn down the rainforest to create land we can farm to make bio diesel!!!"

**temeteus82** · Sep 7, 2006, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pompey

And I feel I just had to add this:
"OMG fossil fuels are destroying the environment, lets burn down the rainforest to create land we can farm to make bio diesel!!!"

land isn't the only place to where we can make feedstock for biodiesel, algae gives 95,000 Litres/hectare....

TheBlackCat · Sep 7, 2006, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by temeteus82

That's why there must bee more R&D in that area to make the switch more cheap. But in only thing what is the problem is money. So if investors or companies would put money on R&D in this area the switch should bee smother.

Investors won't invest if they don't think they will make a profit.

**temeteus82** · Sep 7, 2006, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBlackCat

Investors won't invest if they don't think they will make a profit.

I think that it would make a profit in long run. But let's face the fact that investor’s want's result right now that they can have more money.... Yeah the capitalist system isn’t good for environment at all.

BlueMak · Sep 7, 2006, 07:29 PM

I think what we need is Bill Gates promoting it, and investing shit load of money. Perhaps he will.

SFOSOK · Sep 7, 2006, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by digerati

And when gas prices soar for an actual reason and so many people become unbelievably burdened ad unhappyness and possible chaos ensues. What then?

If gas was 10 bux a gallon, would you be able to afford it?

I'd ride a bike. I know some people that ride bikes to work (2hr rides) because of gas prices now.

Maybe if we stop buying oil from them less cars are used, american people actually get healthier (gee what a thought!) and the environment and air quality becomes drastically changed. Also it would force people to move closer to where they work using less of the freeways.

TheBlackCat · Sep 7, 2006, 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SFOSOK

I'd ride a bike. I know some people that ride bikes to work (2hr rides) because of gas prices now.

Maybe if we stop buying oil from them less cars are used, american people actually get healthier (gee what a thought!) and the environment and air quality becomes drastically changed. Also it would force people to move closer to where they work using less of the freeways.

What we would suffer is a complete breakdown in our society.

The fact is most people do not have the time to ride into a city from the suburbs, or across the suburbs for that matter. There is not enough room to move everyone into cities.

What is more is it would take far, far too long to build more urban housing especially when we can't use our gasoline and diesel-based manufacturing, transportation, and construction equipment to get the building materials, move them, and construct the housing. Buses and other public transportation would suffer as well.

Airline travel would become unfeasible due to the massive expense of airline fuel, which would also affect mail and shipping. Trains and trucks would be far too expensive to run. This would lead to a collapse of commerce. It would be nearly impossible to get food and other goods from where they are grown or made to where they are used, especially with perishable goods. International shipping would become nearly impossible due to the extremely high price of diesel used to power boats.

Food would be nearly impossible to grow because our entire agricultural system is based on using diesel and gasoline-powered farm equipment. The varieties of plants grown have been selectively bred for this sort of system and cannot be grown any other way. And the older varities of plants cannot be grown in large enough numbers to support our population. Countless people would starve. All of our clothing is also based on petroleum, either the fabric is grown from it or it is used to make synthetic fibers. All of our industries require petroleum in some way, either for power, to get fuel to power plants, or to supply chemical precursors needed for synthesizing other chemical. Most industries require all three.

Many cities still using heating oil for heating during the winter, and others would suffer from extremely expensive prices for natural gas, electricity, or propane. Many people would freeze to death each winter from not being able to afford to heat their homes.

Speaking of electricity, we would have a massive breakdown in communication and business if electricity prices climbed too high. Power plants tend to run on coal more than petroleum, but it would become inordinately expensive to mine, process, and ship the coal because all of those processes are based on machines that run on gasoline or diesel.

We would have a breakdown in police, fire, and emergency medical services because they all need gas to move about. Can you really see them replacing ambulances with bicycles? And this would be at a time when it is needed most because health and safety would be at great risk from lack of electricity and heat and everyone crowding into the cities to avoid commuting. Also massive depression that results would cause a massive loss in tax revenue, causing funding to civil services to be slashed right when they are needed most.

It would be an utter disaster. Our society as it stands now simply cannot exist without oil. That is a fact of life.

SFOSOK · Sep 8, 2006, 01:05 AM

I understand all that but its goin to happen no matter wut.

Gas prices will hit 10$ 20$ and then there wont be anymore. So what happens if you can't afford a car that doesn't run on gasoline nor the gasoline itself?

Its gunna happen no matter what we do so the sooner we take care of our dependance on gasoline the quicker things can fix themselves after they f*ck up.

TheBlackCat · Sep 8, 2006, 01:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SFOSOK

Its gunna happen no matter what we do so the sooner we take care of our dependance on gasoline the quicker things can fix themselves after they f*ck up.

No. The slower gasoline prices increase the more time we will have to shift over to alternatives. But if they increase too slowly it will be too late. Doing this fast will lead to chaos. Not doing it at all will lead to disaster. It has to be done at a reasonable and sustaniable pace. There will be economic cost no matter what, but balancing the short term and long term costs is essential or the plan will backfire.

Pompey · Sep 8, 2006, 09:51 AM

So long as we are forced to convert to other forms of energy slowly, we should be fine.

In NZ, Wind power is now cheaper than coal so electricity companies are racing to build wind farms. Within a couple of decades, its expected to provide 30% of our electricity based on the number and size of farms that have gained or are in the process of gaining resource consent.

Yousaif · Sep 8, 2006, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pompey

So long as we are forced to convert to other forms of energy slowly, we should be fine.

In NZ, Wind power is now cheaper than coal so electricity companies are racing to build wind farms. Within a couple of decades, its expected to provide 30% of our electricity based on the number and size of farms that have gained or are in the process of gaining resource consent.

And in 2020, New Zealand will become the first flying island.

SFOSOK · Sep 8, 2006, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBlackCat

No. The slower gasoline prices increase the more time we will have to shift over to alternatives. But if they increase too slowly it will be too late. Doing this fast will lead to chaos. Not doing it at all will lead to disaster. It has to be done at a reasonable and sustaniable pace. There will be economic cost no matter what, but balancing the short term and long term costs is essential or the plan will backfire.

The demand and price for oil is off. Its not long before it hits 5.00

bbone · Sep 11, 2006, 12:35 PM

BlueMak · Sep 11, 2006, 02:03 PM

I know I am not old member or anything, but why is the above fool still allowed in here?

hyperl1t3 · Oct 20, 2006, 03:01 AM

i think he's still allowed here because this is a debate thread (?)
anyways, i think if i recall any diesel engine can use any type of food or plant oil and america loving its fried foods we have an abundance of fueling stations (have you ever not seen a mcdonalds, kfc, wendys, taco hell, or any type of greasy spoon in the smallest of towns?) as long as its filtered. people just don't want to do it because it's the simple minds of people to go down, slide a piece of plastic, and grab a handle. this is where the profit comes in.
>put a gas station mcdonalds xpress or whatever you prefer in a town and see how it does. you get double your money of frying grease and it goes almost full circle, plus you can charge any price that's under the price of gasoline and make huge profits.
>only downside is that people need diesels to be in this "club". so all you european car and diesel truck owners (i.e. public buses and transportation vehicles) will be in luck for a cheap, dual use fuel.
i really don't see what the argument is other than typical american subborness and coperate leg humping.

Sep 6, 2006, 07:10 PM	#32
Gabriel_Etranil DriverHeaven Lover Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 186 Rep Power: 0	Until alternative sources of energy are cheaper then oil(or oil is more expensive, whichever comes first) we will remain reliant on oil. And what do you guys think will happend if western nations are no longer reliant on the middle east for oil? __________________ "I want to believe the voice in my head, but it lies"

Sep 7, 2006, 07:29 PM	#42
BlueMak HH's Asteroids' Dominator Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Hellas->Macedonia->Thessaloniki Posts: 13,483 Rep Power: 349 System Specs	I think what we need is Bill Gates promoting it, and investing shit load of money. Perhaps he will. __________________ The people who are regarded as moral luminaries are those who forego ordinary pleasures themselves and find compensation in interfering with the pleasures of others(Bertrand Russell)"You go into Afghanistan, you got guys who slap women around for five years because they didn't wear a veil,You know, guys like that ain't got no manhood left anyway. So it's a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them." - Lt. Gen. James N. Mattis This is slavery, not to speak one's thought. [Euripides-The Phoenician Women (c.411-409 B.C.)] http://www.macedonia.info/FALLACIESANDFACTS.htm *Sic semper tyrannis.*

Sep 8, 2006, 01:05 AM	#45
SFOSOK 939 Goin Strong Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Ontario Posts: 7,033 Rep Power: 90 System Specs	I understand all that but its goin to happen no matter wut. Gas prices will hit 10$ 20$ and then there wont be anymore. So what happens if you can't afford a car that doesn't run on gasoline nor the gasoline itself? Its gunna happen no matter what we do so the sooner we take care of our dependance on gasoline the quicker things can fix themselves after they fck up. __________________ Warning* - Explicit Content Preceeding METAL!!

Sep 8, 2006, 09:51 AM	#47
Pompey DriverHeaven Addict Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Wellington, New Zealand Posts: 362 Rep Power: 0	So long as we are forced to convert to other forms of energy slowly, we should be fine. In NZ, Wind power is now cheaper than coal so electricity companies are racing to build wind farms. Within a couple of decades, its expected to provide 30% of our electricity based on the number and size of farms that have gained or are in the process of gaining resource consent. __________________ One's inability to find an answer to a question does not imply that the question has no answer.

Sep 11, 2006, 02:03 PM	#51
BlueMak HH's Asteroids' Dominator Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Hellas->Macedonia->Thessaloniki Posts: 13,483 Rep Power: 349 System Specs	I know I am not old member or anything, but why is the above fool still allowed in here? __________________ The people who are regarded as moral luminaries are those who forego ordinary pleasures themselves and find compensation in interfering with the pleasures of others(Bertrand Russell)"You go into Afghanistan, you got guys who slap women around for five years because they didn't wear a veil,You know, guys like that ain't got no manhood left anyway. So it's a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them." - Lt. Gen. James N. Mattis This is slavery, not to speak one's thought. [Euripides-The Phoenician Women (c.411-409 B.C.)] http://www.macedonia.info/FALLACIESANDFACTS.htm *Sic semper tyrannis.*

Sep 6, 2006, 08:52 PM	#34
pr0digal jenius Delete Me Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 14,648 Rep Power: 0	When the world's richest most powerful nation is run by a man who own's an oil company, and a VP who has a stake in the largest defense contracting company in the world, oil is king. Liquid Black Gooey Money. And as for biodesiel and hydrogen and flexfuel[ethenol].....they don't yield the same kind of power...if I recall, biodiesel yields less torque and more HP, and ethenol is less torque and way more [10%-ish] HP....so that requires retooling an entire industyr...plus,my guess is biodiesel can't pass emissions

Sep 11, 2006, 12:35 PM	Thread Starter #50
bbone DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 15 Rep Power: 0

Oct 20, 2006, 03:01 AM	#52
hyperl1t3 DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 28 Rep Power: 0	i think he's still allowed here because this is a debate thread (?) anyways, i think if i recall any diesel engine can use any type of food or plant oil and america loving its fried foods we have an abundance of fueling stations (have you ever not seen a mcdonalds, kfc, wendys, taco hell, or any type of greasy spoon in the smallest of towns?) as long as its filtered. people just don't want to do it because it's the simple minds of people to go down, slide a piece of plastic, and grab a handle. this is where the profit comes in. >put a gas station mcdonalds xpress or whatever you prefer in a town and see how it does. you get double your money of frying grease and it goes almost full circle, plus you can charge any price that's under the price of gasoline and make huge profits. >only downside is that people need diesels to be in this "club". so all you european car and diesel truck owners (i.e. public buses and transportation vehicles) will be in luck for a cheap, dual use fuel. i really don't see what the argument is other than typical american subborness and coperate leg humping.